Electric Bikes - Electric Bikes

Anyone use an electric bike for commuting, or to assist with hills/wind?

If so, which kit/bike do you have?


BionX? Wilderness Energy? ///....ahem Crystalyte

I use a Tres Terra Europa. Has a Heinzman motor.

Until very recently I had a Giant Lite/Twist. Great bike.

--A

Brushless WE kit and a backup Giant Lafree. I like the WE kit way better.

which is bettor?

wilderness energy

or da crystalyte?

what about bionx is so expensive why is tat?

Crystalite is better, if I recall correctly, but WE kit is pretty good. It is cheaper and you have almost everything you need with the kit. With crystalite, you have to buy the controller, seprately, sometimes from a different vendor, but kits do exist. Not sure about the bionx, but for the price, you'll get a better value buying crystalite motors/kits. Also, check out Revopower.com, won't be available until spring next year and its run on gas, but it weighs way lighter than e-bikes, and the range is also longer(50 miles per one tankful of gas vs 20 miles for a single charge of battery).

I've done several electric bike conversions and used several of the kits available here.
http://www.werelectrified.com/unibikekit.html
If all you want is a little assist I would suggest the BD24-10 kit. It runs on 24 volts so one less battery than the BD-36 kit to haul around.
If your looking for an electric bike that you don't want to pedal very much, go for the BD-36 kit.
Watch out for local regulations concerning electric or ICE engines on bicycles! You can't go to your local DMV in most cases and get straight answers to your questions about electric bike conversions. I ran into that problem here is Alabama. I was given the old run around and was told that all motor vehicles had to be titled, registered, and have liability insurance. When looking up information in the Code of Alabama I discovered that what I wanted to do was to convert a bicycle into a motor-driven cycle and as long as the cycle weight was less than 200 lbs and 5hp or 150cc or less I did not need to have a title for it or register it, as long as I had a current and valid Alabama drivers license. Nor did I need to have liability insurance coverage, which is impossible to obtain anyway. One problem I did run into was the necessity of a brake light being required on all motor-driven cycles starting in 1975. I simply ordered a Cycle Pro Flashpoint Indicator light for $15 (+ shipping), which provides a brake light, taillight, and turn signal all in one package and easily meets Alabama's requirements.
http://www.bikeworldusa.com/cgi-bin/quikstore.cgi?store=&search=yes&detail=yes&product=400&category=Lights&keywords=&hits_seen=30&page=search.html&and=&affiliate_id=

this is all very good information

thanks you all

i don't know which kit

but where i come from (ontario canada)
legislationj ust passed a few days ago october 4 2006

incredible

like part of histry

it now allow (the province) to have electric bikies on rodesways like where cars go, but on side by bike lane

basically where bike can go electric bike can go

ia m interested in getting electric
because it makes commuting easier against hills and wind

and make less sweat when i go to work or whatever, like meet people, and not have to be all sweaty if not wanted

it makes the option open, like when i bike when i want, but not be sweaty if i don't want

i think it is a good idea, without me selling out either

i don't consider it a sell-out

Remeber, power assisted bikes are illegal in Canada

Remeber, power assisted bikes are illegal in Canada
You might want to read the following thread: http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=234651

--A

btw, in your expert opinions, where would you rather have the hub motor, and why? On the front wheel or back wheel?

i am try use thinking along lines of brakes, more stopping power with the front, when moving in forward direction, back wheel not as well when brakes applied, when moving forward with a motor, it seems this point is insignificant...

if motor on mback, it not seem as noticeable neither, on front it more noticeable

another bunch of questions for any experienced users and/or experts out there
1) How does battery and controller have compatible, i.e. if controller say 36-48V and battery is 36V 7Ah, they compatible, but if 36-48V controller, and 24V battery, not compatible?
2) What is significance of controller, 36-48V? What does this mean compared to 24V? Better tops speed, or better hill climbing?

or is this related to the controller's ampereage? like 36V @ 20A, versus 25A, 25A better hill climber

and 36V goes faster speed, than 24V? is this right or are amperage of the concern?

anyone know how the 36V and 20A combonation will provide in speed and hiill climbing?

some available options follow:
http://www.jvbike.com/crystalyte.htm

I'm not sure if people here can actually answer the more technical questions regarding voltage, batteries and amps(I know I can't, lol), so here's a good website where you can ask/read the answeres to your questions: V is for Voltage (http://www.visforvoltage.com/forums/index.php?act=SF&f=22). Friendly technical people who don't mind newbiest of newbie questions :)

As for the front or back, some prefer front, some prefer front. Othere say there is no discernable difference. I have only used front mounted hub motors so I got no expereince with rear hub motors, and I'm very happy with it.

Front

pros: easy to install, widely available so it's cheaper, a more balanced weight distribution

cons: fork quality can vary, might not be suitable for very hightorque applications(but some motors specifcally used for torque have torque arms). Forks are also not generally designed(especially the lower end bicycles, they use lower grade steel) for electric bike application.

Back

pros: Supposedly stronger and most rear dropouts are standard

cons: harder to install(but probably not THAT hard), harder to come by, weight concentrated at the back might be a problem(or so my bike mechanic says).


2) What is significance of controller, 36-48V? What does this mean compared to 24V? Better tops speed, or better hill climbing?

I think it just means that you can use higher voltage stuff with the 36V-48V over the 24V. Deffinetiely choose something higher than 24V. 36V is a good starting voltage these days(they are conseqeutnyl the most widely available). 24V is too weak. And yes, a higher voltage generally means stronger(better on hills) and a higher top speed. I have 36V brushless and I can climb hills with 8% grade for over a mile just fine. Slower, but I can do it.

Oh yeah, speaking of brushed and brushless motors, generally, brushless motors are more efficient(95%+) compared to brushed(80% or so efficiency). The former has a higher range. The tradeoff is that brushed is better at climbing hills over brushless. My brushless range is around 24 miles when the battery was new(I think its down to 22 miles now). A comparable brushed motor would have a range of less than 20 miles.

that is good ideas

i like your psts

thanks you mcuhly

i think i go 36V stronger 24V week like you say

electric assist allowed

it was used be for canada but ontario not allow

now ontario allow and it is good here

i like to have electric assist to make more fun ride

how will weight be factor?

bionx say they light weight system

but much expensive for kit

i don't know

crystalyte is

they say more money for the nimh battery

what tyupe is best battery?

is weight so much necessary to consider?

Bionix is too expensive for what you get. For the same money, you can get a crystalite motor and NiMh batteries with greater freedom and choice.

Weight is not that big of a problem to me. You'll get used to it, it's not that not that big of a deal. To me anyway.

Sealed lead acids are ideally best for high drain applications but NiMh are preffered since they are lighter, but expect to pay a few hundred bucks more.

how much autonomy in miles can yo8u get

with what classification of battery? nimh 7ah? 12ah? can go 23 miles on flat? 12 miles on flat? all the way?
thanks

is that be supposed a goat on your avatar?

what system do you guys use?

is it fun?

cause i read 20 miles autonomy and that is fantastic

is that possible on regular batteries? please?

Yes, it is possible even on the cheapest of batteries, provided you help it along(i.e. pedal). The ah thing is the capacity(I think). Something with 12 ah is gonna have more juice than 7 ah. They are also indicative of weight. 12 ah SLAs are around 10 lbs each.

This is pretty interesting: http://www.cleverchimp.com/
Electric assist for Xtracycles.

but what if i not help it along?
i not like help bike along sometimes
what then? 4 miles only? thanks.

Well, range would be reduced, but yes, you can choose not to help along. With the bionx, though, I don't think that's possible. That's why I love the WE/Crystalite kits. You can choose between a controller that is pedal-first or on-demand.

these things will be fun

i hope tog eton sun to go on

i think i will go crustalytte now thanks

does anyone know the mile range for this?

Check out the new Schwinn 2007 Campus Electric bike.
http://www.schwinnbike.com/products/bikes_detail.php?id=889
The electric drive system only adds 10 lbs to the weight of the bike and all the wires are hidden in the frame, forks, and handlebar. The front wheel with the hub motor is easy to remove as well. The battery pack in located beneath the rack and is easily removed by sliding it out via a track and lock system.
http://www.schwinnbike.com/images/catalog/lg_18.11.AS7_CAMPUS_M.jpg

Sweet. I wonder what's the price point.

--A

thanks.

would be good if this could add like a kit

smaller version of hub and smaller battery equals light additional weight

i like much

c

I added a bionx 250pl system to my bike and I get about 30-35 miles range at level 3 assist. I use 700x28 wheels, btw. To get an idea of how much assist level 3 gives, that assist level raises my average cruising speed from 18mph to 22 mph. 18mph was what I had before I installed the kit onto the bike. The assist levels go from 1-4.

How is the quality of the Tres Terra products? Any problems with it?




I use a Tres Terra Europa. Has a Heinzman motor.

Discovered this a few days ago.
ECB Estelle City Electric Bike- CLOSEOUT
http://worksmancycles.com/shopsite_sc/store/html/media/estelle.jpg
http://worksmancycles.com/shopsite_sc/store/html/page18.html
Looks like a very good deal on a high quality electric bike.

Discovered this a few days ago.
ECB Estelle City Electric Bike- CLOSEOUT
http://worksmancycles.com/shopsite_sc/store/html/media/estelle.jpg
http://worksmancycles.com/shopsite_sc/store/html/page18.html
Looks like a very good deal on a high quality electric bike.
HERE (http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=272110) it is in the flesh. Got one for my Pop recently. The battery is not holding a full charge but Pop gets enough distance to suit his needs. Even with the price of a new battery the bike is cheeper than retail.
I think the bike is a Biria (http://www.biria.com/), fitted with an E-kit and rebadged as an Estelle, by Heinzmann, the maker of the electric system.

Here it is in the flesh. Got one for my Pop recently. The battery is not holding a full charge but Pop gets enough distance to suit his needs. Even with the price of a new battery the bike is cheeper than retail.
I think the bike is a Biria (http://www.biria.com/), fitted with an E-kit and rebadged as an Estelle, by Heinzmann, the maker of the electric system.
Thanks for the pictures and review! I figured the battery pack might be a little on the old side. I am sure the pack could be opened up and new batteries installed essentially rebuilding it. Considering gasoline is probably going to be around $4.00 a gallon this year… you know why you would want one!

Fantastic

I guess Iwill go with Crystalyte in time for the spring biking season

mind you i was there through the snow

i have the battle scars to show for it :D

so does my horse, i mean bike

Remeber, power assisted bikes are illegal in Canada


WRONG!

They're now legal in every province as of October 2006 (Ontario being the last province to legalize them).

i gues at times i worry to about theft of controller

are the bionx easy to remove like quick release for the controller?

I use Bionx on my Mountain bike as a commuter. Yeah yeah.. I know... mountain bike. But part of my commute (midway) is a fun off-road segment that I go out of my way to do every time I get a chance.

I used to have a Strong eBike. That's an entire bike and it was just too damn heavy. too heavy to transport, too heavy to pedal, too heavy to be effective. Sure the motor was a 500W instead of the Bionx 350W I currently have, but it needed all that power just to get it moving. That thing was just not a good bike overall.

With the Strong you almost don't want to be pedaling because of the weight. With the Bionx, it's a joy to pedal.

Most of the time I pedal in assisstance mode 2 (75%). When I'm tired a bit I'll switch to mode 3 (150%). And if I have a hillclimb, even a light grade, I'll switch to mode 4 (300%) so I don't break a sweat.

I sometimes use the thumb throttle off a corner to avoid changing gears and just to get up to a speed where I can start pedaling on my own.

The regen is pretty cool as well. On one of my favorite trails there's a 500M long steep downhill segment. I put the Bionx into regen mode 3 and don't touch the brakes. Sure I don't go very fast, but I do make it to the bottom of the hill without having to use the mechanical brakes to control my speed. Just some taps on +A or -G to switch re-gen levels to control the downhill speed. It works!

While the Bionx is more expensive, it does give a lot back. No need for a cycle computer, it's all built-in. And the light weight truely is a strong selling point. Especially compared to the Strong GTS eBike.

I use Bionx on my Mountain bike as a commuter. Yeah yeah.. I know... mountain bike. But part of my commute (midway) is a fun off-road segment that I go out of my way to do every time I get a chance.

I used to have a Strong eBike. That's an entire bike and it was just too damn heavy. too heavy to transport, too heavy to pedal, too heavy to be effective. Sure the motor was a 500W instead of the Bionx 350W I currently have, but it needed all that power just to get it moving. That thing was just not a good bike overall.

With the Strong you almost don't want to be pedaling because of the weight. With the Bionx, it's a joy to pedal.

Most of the time I pedal in assisstance mode 2 (75%). When I'm tired a bit I'll switch to mode 3 (150%). And if I have a hillclimb, even a light grade, I'll switch to mode 4 (300%) so I don't break a sweat.

I sometimes use the thumb throttle off a corner to avoid changing gears and just to get up to a speed where I can start pedaling on my own.

The regen is pretty cool as well. On one of my favorite trails there's a 500M long steep downhill segment. I put the Bionx into regen mode 3 and don't touch the brakes. Sure I don't go very fast, but I do make it to the bottom of the hill without having to use the mechanical brakes to control my speed. Just some taps on +A or -G to switch re-gen levels to control the downhill speed. It works!

While the Bionx is more expensive, it does give a lot back. No need for a cycle computer, it's all built-in. And the light weight truely is a strong selling point. Especially compared to the Strong GTS eBike.

I went to Canadian Tire at Bay and Dundas in Toronto to play with the Strong. I picked it up with one arm. It was heavy as sin! It felt like my arm was going to come off. It doesn't even look like an electric bike, more like a moped. And it is on sale now for $899, but not thanks okay. I am considering the new line of Crystalyte, they use NIMH batteries now, so they are much lighter, but more expensive.

That's the Strong I used to have. $899 at Canadian Tire, I bought it in Oakville.
Can you even get Crystalyte in Ontario (local retailers) ?

I know the local bike shops selling bionx weren't that well informed. I got mine in Quebec while I was visiting family over there. They're more informed about things like the proper spoke size give the bike's usage and weight. But then again, the guys in Quebec have had legal eBikes for years so they've had plenty of time to learn how to sell the right system for the specific customer.

Ontario folks are just inexperienced. Not to mention many non-forward thinking bike shop owners just don't like eBikes to start with. So they're not exactly motivated to really push eBike sales. For them it's more of a novelty item than a growing market segment. They fail to understand demographics; our population's mean age is growing older all the time, eBikes will be strong sellers with that crowd.

actually i was looking at jvbike in bc and thinking of getting shipment from them
lbs in ontarion don't care too much about them so not too exciting

Canadian Tire now sells three others - Schwinn male, female and a folder. They seem a lot lighter than the Strong. $499 and $599 I think. Unfortunately I haven't been there while they've tested them.

I work at the Burlington Mall one and they have them in stock if you want to have a look.

yeah they don't seem real good though is all

i mean

the one for 200W don't seem like it much

I see ones like this in use all over China. There is a pretty steep hill in form of my school but they seem to make it up to the top. That is with only 350W, so I expect that the 600W, or 1KW units would do just fine. The only trouble is that (and this is a China spicific problem) they are beginning to face the same restrictions as bicycles; such as restriction to bicycle facilities and prohibition where bicycles are prohibited. I am also seeing them being required to be walked in places that bicycleists are required to walk (such as facility gates) where previously that were permitted to ride through like motor traffic.

It is interesting that Beijing is being forced to remove bicycle restrictions. They seem to be discovering that trying to eliminate bicycles in favor of private cars was not a brilliant plan.

http://www.werelectrified.com/images/main/etankbike_red.jpg
http://www.werelectrified.com/electric_pedal_bike.html

I do realize that this is more of an electric moped than an electric bicycle; and as such, is not really the item under consideration. I go find it interesting that it has a much smaller motor than the ebikes that we are discussing.

okay thanks

The new moped? I'd race one of those any day with a (pedal bike).

Seriously, from a commuting point of view, I think pedaling is more efficient.

The new moped? I'd race one of those any day with a (pedal bike).

Seriously, from a commuting point of view, I think pedaling is more efficient.

ebikes require peadaling. I included the picture of the electric moped just to show what has become popular here. As I stated, and as the pictures clearly show,it is not the same animal that is being discussed as ebikes.

That's the Strong I used to have. $899 at Canadian Tire, I bought it in Oakville.
Can you even get Crystalyte in Ontario (local retailers) ?

I know the local bike shops selling bionx weren't that well informed. I got mine in Quebec while I was visiting family over there. They're more informed about things like the proper spoke size give the bike's usage and weight. But then again, the guys in Quebec have had legal eBikes for years so they've had plenty of time to learn how to sell the right system for the specific customer.

Ontario folks are just inexperienced. Not to mention many non-forward thinking bike shop owners just don't like eBikes to start with. So they're not exactly motivated to really push eBike sales. For them it's more of a novelty item than a growing market segment. They fail to understand demographics; our population's mean age is growing older all the time, eBikes will be strong sellers with that crowd.
Where in Quebec did you happen to get the bionx system? I was thinking about picking one up for my hybrid bike (for when I go distance, hills, and carry alot of gear). I ask because I've been thinking of picking it up in Ottawa or here in Montreal. Also, when you lock it up or leave it, do you take teh controller and/or the battery off and take it with you? The bionx system looks fantastic.

Where in Quebec did you happen to get the bionx system? I was thinking about picking one up for my hybrid bike (for when I go distance, hills, and carry alot of gear). I ask because I've been thinking of picking it up in Ottawa or here in Montreal. Also, when you lock it up or leave it, do you take teh controller and/or the battery off and take it with you? The bionx system looks fantastic.

i got it at bicycles lamothe in Sorel.

yeah, the bionx looks great

it is light i hear, but i might go for something cheaper and packs more juice even being heavier

Crystalyte has one out, and they have a lighter battery now