Commuting - saddle for vegetarians?!

Is there any good saddles, like Brooks that everybody is praising, whithout the skin/leather seat? I´m looking to replace my current saddle with something suitable for commuting and touring that supports the butt more than my Selle Italia Transalp. I´ve got a small to medium sized butt ;) . I want a syntetic seat if possible. Any suggestions?

Saddles are a very personal choice, what one person likes another won't. There is no substitute for leather, like the brooks saddle. A synthetic material just does not react in the same way.

Figure this way the full cow is getting used, when they make a saddle out of it.

Leather is the whole point of a Brooks saddle. Otherwise, you're gonna have to rest you @$$ on plastic. Good luck....

There must be some good saddles made of syntetic fabric. There can´t just be Brooks...or?

I think this is just what you are looking for![URL=http://sheldonbrown.com/real-man.html]:D

Originally posted by uciflylow
I think this is just what you are looking for![URL=http://sheldonbrown.com/real-man.html]:D

Naaa, looks like a killer for the family treasures:D

If you're worried about using leather from something that was killed for consumption, why don't you find an animal that died from natural causes and have the skin put on the type of saddle you like?

If you're worried about using leather from something that was killed for consumption, why don't you find an animal that died from natural causes and have the skin put on the type of saddle you like?

why should people have to rely on animals for everything? we have the technology to do pretty much whatever we dream up, but we are still so reliant on animals to supply us with everything from shoes, to food, to bike seats.

i understand the reasoning behind your suggestion, Dchiefransom, as your animal wasn't harmed solely for human consumption. what i want to know, however, is would you like to have a saddle made from the skin of a dead human that died of natural causes? i just don't understand people's mentalities regarding the exploitation of animals. we need to get beyond this delusion that humans are somehow superior to animals. we are all living beings of the same life, and we should all respect each other as such. just because you would not be directly harming an animal that died of natural causes by using her skin, you are still exploiting her as an object that is here for you to use as you wish.

Here we go again...:rolleyes:

Oh man and they bleed trees to get rubber for tyres too.

Well, this is an interesting design

http://www.saddleco.com/why.html


It uses a hammock design similiar to a Brooks. I have no idea how well it works though.

There are plenty of synthetic saddles, many used for Triathlon where people get on the bike wet and so where leather not suitable. Do a search on google for Lorica, which is just one of the synthetics.

I would guess that saddles probably wouldn't taste very good. Why would you want to eat one?




Please know that I'm kidding - not looking to get BBQ'd (not much chance of that though eh?)

Originally posted by Raiyn
I would guess that saddles probably wouldn't taste very good. Why would you want to eat one? I don't think I could bring myself to eat my saddle even if it did taste good. I know where it's been.

Raiyn: That is exactly what I thought when I read the subject line.

Anders K:

There are plenty of good synthetic saddles out there, unfortunately since a saddle is a very individual thing, It's hard to predict which saddle will be right for you. A $5.00 Walmart BMX saddle on clearance sale may work as well as $50.00 premium saddle from the LBS.

A leather saddle is favored by many because it will form-fit to your body over time. Synthetics are elastic, meaning they will return to thier original shape after being deformed. I don't know of any synthetics that do this.


At my LBS the way it goes is you bring your bike and an allen tool on a Saturday morning, and you can test-drive every saddle in the place, before you find one that suits you. This policy is much simpler than processing saddle returns.

A compromise might be a recycled leather saddle. Your LBS might have one off of a trade-in or in the bits and pieces bin. Soaking in water overnight will make it pliable, then riding until it dries the next day should give it the right shape. This gimmick works for boots, it might work for saddles.

regards
Dan

To all of you who took this question serious THANK´s for your replys, this is a serious question.

To the rest of you: eat my saddle:D

Interesting timing on this post becuase one of the posters in the rec.cycling.uk newsgroup just had his saddle eaten by (I've forgotten which) either a horse or a cow when he leaned it bicycle against a farm fence. He said he turned away for a few minutes and was surprised to see the animal munching away on his saddle. Must have been the combination of salt etc.

That being said, I'm a fan of Brooks, because they are leather and breath. I've ridden several plastic saddles over the years, and while serviceable, they aren't as comfortable. If leather is on your list of no-nos, pick any of the dozens of plastices. They come in every price range. Good luck.

THANK´s for your replys

There is no apostophe in the word "thanks". Also, the plural of "reply" is "replies".

Originally posted by Anders K
eat my saddle :D

I think you just found yourself a signature! :)

Originally posted by D*Alex
There is no apostophe in the word "thanks". Also, the plural of "reply" is "replies".

OK, I apologize for my bad English, let us see your Swedish:D

Originally posted by Erick L
I think you just found yourself a signature! :)

Yes, you are right. A really good one. Thank´´´s for the tip;)

Anders... Please keep in mind that they don't raise cattle for the hide or leather. The leather is only a recycled by-product of the meat industry. And the meat industry uses naturally renewable resources.

Originally posted by bjlaw
Anders... Please keep in mind that they don't raise cattle for the hide or leather. The leather is only a recycled by-product of the meat industry. And the meat industry uses naturally renewable resources.

Sorry, that does not make leather more attractive to me. Like someone said earlier in this thread, would you use human skin on your saddle if you knew the person died of natural causes?

Didn´t think so. Neither would I.

I understand your view point and I was trying to be serious. Some people actually think cattle are raised for the leather.

By the way Anders I just bought a new saddle. I think it was a Selle Royal saddle called "Blast." It has a new type firmer gel in it and an interesting ventilation port down the center of the saddle for cooler comfort. I only have two thirty mile rides on it so far but I think it has real promise. It's not leather either, even though I still like leather.

this thread makes me want to go out tonight and eat a thick, juicy steak, cholesterol be da@#d. heh heh.

keep in mind that, if you buy a synthetic saddle, you are contributing to land waste. leather saddles, on the other hand, are biodegradeable.

think about THAT conundrum while driving your volvo to the next "save the whale" meeting.

Hello Anders,

Sorry to jump in so late -- I am vegan and I totally understand you feelings on the matter.. I posed this question on the rec.bicycles.tech forum and got a wide variety of responses (including getting mistaken for a troll). Search groups.google.com for "non-leather ergonomic saddles", and you will find my question (my real name is Narayan Krishnamoorthy).

I think Fizik makes good saddles, and they are synthetic I believe. VERY Expensive, though. (http://www.fizik.com). THe Pave and the Nisene are the ergonomic ones, they have a unisex one too called the "Vitesse".

Selle also makes some synthetic ones (I have the San Marco New Millenium on my Trek 520). I like it so far, even though some reviews on the Trek 520 have called that saddle "The WORST saddle I ever sat on" (roadbikereview.com, I think) Selle would be another choice.

The Saddleco Flow Saddle also has a good reputation... Trico sports makes a few gel saddles that you may like (I corresponded via email with a very helpful tech person there).

If I come across something else, I will let you know.

Cheers!
Narayan.

Originally posted by Anders K
Sorry, that does not make leather more attractive to me. Like someone said earlier in this thread, would you use human skin on your saddle if you knew the person died of natural causes?

Didn´t think so. Neither would I.
Im not shore human skin would make a very good saddle anyway , if the hide was taken from an old, hardened cyclist butt I ,spose a good fit with a min. of breaking in could be expected though:( The mind boggeles :D :D

On a serious response, I use a selle san marco aspide saddle. It has very minimal padding, but i find it very comfortable.

As for a human saddle, if it was donated or sold to a saddle dealer and was very comfortable and durable etc.. I would use it why not? But it would not be, so I won't.

Thanks every body for your response and tips.

Originally posted by Bandit
keep in mind that, if you buy a synthetic saddle, you are contributing to land waste. leather saddles, on the other hand, are biodegradeable.

think about THAT conundrum while driving your volvo to the next "save the whale" meeting.

Not to mention the petroleum used to make the synthetic fibers. . .

As is often said, you can't have everything. Oh, to compromise is such sweet sorrow.

BTW, that steak sounds good.

Well let me propose a question. How long will it take a synthetic saddle, or anything synthetic to "rot" away in a land fill? How about a 10,000 years and probably longer. Now how long will a leather saddle, or anything made of animal "rot" away? How about maybe 10 years. So lets see now 10,000 years or 10 years, which is better? Oh, I know, we can recycle the synthetic; oops, one problem, less than 5% of synthetics are currently recycle in America. Gee maybe good old biodegradable animal hides is still the best.

Originally posted by froze
Well let me propose a question. How long will it take a synthetic saddle, or anything synthetic to "rot" away in a land fill? How about a 10,000 years and probably longer. Now how long will a leather saddle, or anything made of animal "rot" away? How about maybe 10 years. So lets see now 10,000 years or 10 years, which is better? Oh, I know, we can recycle the synthetic; oops, one problem, less than 5% of synthetics are currently recycle in America. Gee maybe good old biodegradable animal hides is still the best.

Simplistic answer. it fails to take into account the environmental cost of actually producing the item in the first place. Animals need feed, greenhouse gases produced, tanning of the leather involves toxic processesetc.

the synthetics are produced from oil. the environmental costs of producing that, the greenhouse gases produced in manufacture etc.

I think the point here is that Anders doesn't want to use leather because of his beliefs and ethics. I admire him for that and wish I could be as strong minded. :thumbup:

the only truly environmental option is to buy second hand. Nothing new produced. :)

i do agree with the concern from those who are comparing the decomposition time between animal and synthetic saddles. but chewa made some excellent points about the environmental damage that factory farms brings into the debate. environmentally, the cow industry alone is contributing catastrophically to global warming, and polution to our rivers and air.
the chemicals, pestisides, and valuable resources that go into the factory farming industry are no more benign than a synthetic saddle factory.

during my time as a vegan, i have become hyper-aware of everything i comsume. occasionally i do buy something synthetic and non-recycled. in the grand scheme of things, though, not consuming any animal products in my opinion has more than made up for the few products which will unfortunately end up sitting in a landfill somewhere.

a recycled leather seat may be a good compromise, depending on any ethical issues one might have. it would be perfect if someone made a plant-based (i.e. hemp) saddle. i believe they could even be made to be surperior to synthetics and many leather seats. anyways, i did find one link to a recycled cloth seat, but it looks like more of a re-upholstering thing:

http://hometown.aol.com/mudmash/rss.html

I get the feeling that the only reason some people start talking about the decomposition time is because

a, they think I´m only into the environmently living thing and therefore I am a vegetarian. That´s wrong.

b, they feel attacked, and feel theire lifestyle theatened and they want to strike back. Go ahead, make my day;)

c, they are totally unaware of that theire bikeframe probably never will decompose or moulder:eek:

d, non of the alternatives above but they sure will tell me again how much longer decomposition time a syntetic saddle have;)

The main thing for me is to cause as little suffering as possible for all living creatures. I will if I can avoid buying products that in a major way supports killing of animals. I am not fanatic about it but try to do the best in every situation. Therefore I asked you guys if anyone could give me a tip of what the market have to offer. I hope everyone have a big sense of humor, that seems to be a big access when discussing these matters:) and not take offence. I have allready recieved a lots of good tips.

Thanks everybody

Reading thorugh all the responses, made me remember a photo at Sheldon Browns' web site of a saddle made of granite (stone) for real men! Now there's a natural product that isn't endnagered. It may however, interfere with the long-term functionality of your "wobbly-bits". I've "stolen" a copy of it for inclusion here. (My formal apologies to the good Mr. Brown - one of the great gurus for the average guy who enjoys cycling.

Sounds like there are quite a few good options available. Hope you find one that works for you.

Lenny

that actually looks comfortable in a strange sort of way.... have you ever sat on a nice rock on the side of a river and just pondered the essence of life? that is the feeling i imagine having riding on that saddle.

Originally posted by gonesh9
that actually looks comfortable in a strange sort of way.... have you ever sat on a nice rock on the side of a river and just pondered the essence of life? that is the feeling i imagine having riding on that saddle. I don't think that's quite what I'd be pondering if I had to sit on that for 100 or so kilometres.

I don't think that's quite what I'd be pondering if I had to sit on that for 100 or so kilometres.

:p ya, i guess that would definately be a long 100 kilometers!!

Gonesh9; it's not the cattle causing the problems you speak of, if that was the case then for millions of years this would have been a problem. But rather the problem lies with the way MAN processes these things. MAN is the one that uses pesticides on crops for all you veggies out there, it's MAN screwing up the environment. Animals and plants were doing fine until we came along! And synthetics add a great deal of toxic pollution to the environment. I'm not for or against leather or for or against synthetics, I use both! Both materials are here to stay and I use whatever works the best for my needs.

Of course bike frames made of any material causes pollution in the manufacturing process, but the discussion here was seat material. You could look at the production of bikes as eventually paying back the pollution it caused by you riding it instead of using a car or motorcycle.

As far as global warming goes, are you sure that man is causing that? Maybe global warming is just a natural process the earth is taking at this time. The dinasours lived in a time that the earth was very warm-tropic like conditions; and this came about after an ice age and was then followed by another ice age. These changes occur about every 10,000 years where it gets cold for 10,000 years and then slowly warms up for 10,000 years. The problem is the cold comes fast not slow as the heating up period does, why? Could it be that as the earth warms up more moisture is in the atomsphere due to greater amounts of evaporation along with larger bodies of water adding to it then suddenly during a winter season instead of snowing a little it snows in a great abundance due to the very high water content in the atomsphere? This "snow" fall would set records where you could see 3 to 4 feet fall in just 4 to 5 hours, but instead of stopping the next day it snows again about the same depth and this repeats onward to the next day. We are now looking at 10 to 12 feet of snow happening in Detroit (actually this would occur to much of the northern parts of the world); this snow cannot be cleared, people cannot exit their homes and then the bottom foot of the snow is so compacted from the weight above it turns into thick hard ice, ie a glacier. BUT things get worse, because due to the added snow which is white and this greater size of the whiteness covering a large part of the globe relects more of the sunlight back into space causing tempertures to drop even faster and more snow and glaciers now move rapidly southward. Animals are frozen so fast that they don't even have time to digest their food, and masses of animals are extinct and huge portion of the human population perishes. What is really odd about our planet that whenever a mass extinction takes place, that within a really short period of time about 1,000 years, creatures and plants both land and sea, and a lot of these plants and animals are so new they were not here before, are abundant. Ever ask yourself why or how such a rapid response in wildlife both old and new can take place in such a short time when nothing new is currently being added since the beginning of written history?

It's late, I guess I'm just stir crazy.

Originally posted by Raiyn
Here we go again...:rolleyes: Looks like my first instinct on this thread was correct.

Raiyn, contributing to the thread IS optional :)

I know, I know. I saw this coming and jumped in anyway.

Definition of insanity: Repeating the same behavior and expecting a different result.


Call me Loony

Originally posted by Raiyn
Call me Loony I'd prefer not to but seeing as I like you - and you asked so nicely - OK.

Raiyn - You're a Loony.

Happy now?:D

Ecstatic thank you.

froze, i completely understand your logic, and i do think for the most part that "global warming" is part of the natural cycle the earth has been part of for years. also, i completely agree that it is MAN and not animal that is the problem. animals are surely very benevolent creatures, and are not out to make a profit at the expense of man. i guess i didn't quite state my opinion correctly. the only thing that i disagreed with on your post, is when you said man is the one using pestisides on crops for all us veggies out there. it's true, pestisides are a disaster for the earth. but a very respected information group www.vrg.org says it takes 40 pounds of veggies to produce 1 pound of meat. surely, the veggies these animals are getting fed are pestiside-rich. sure, there are farms where animals are grazing on natural grass, but the reality is that most meat is coming from factory farms, where the animal is confined to a very small area indoors, and never gets to graze naturally. also, most veggies that i know are much more conscious of what they are consuming than the average meat eater. i personally choose organic whenever possible, because i agree with you that man's use of pestisides are one of the major problems. what it really comes down to for me, though, is the terrible way these animals are being treated. if you watch steele-bike's video clip he posted on "why would you ever be a vegetarian", you will see the reality of this industry. it is very sad that man behaves like this, and even more sad that the general public just shrugs it off and continues to support such horrific acts by buying their products.

No, I'm loony, can I be loony too? Just read my post above: an ice age coming? HAHAHHAHaHAHA! I must be loony!

I'm just having fun with all of you, don't take it personally, I enjoy reading other peoples opinions on various subjects, whether I agree or not, that's is not what's important; the important part is that we all learn something, no matter how small that learning might be. My view on animal products vs synthetic is a mute point since I use both in my everyday life.

Gonesh9 I just read your last post right after I posted my fun one. I understand where your coming from since I have friends that are veggie eaters. I can't tell if your a guy or gal, but most men do not do well without meat protein, this has been scientifially proven over the years. Even bean protein does not work as well as meat protein does for men; for some odd reason women are not affected by the lack of meat protein. And don't forget that all plant eating animals, whether their used for food or not, consume plants at a high rate, that is one of the reason dinosours perished because when the earths climate changed it no longer allowed plants to grow at a feverish rate to support these creatures. Vietnam is a micronism of this example of fast plant growth. America would spray agent orange (yuk) on lush vegitation which did indeed kill the plants down to bare ground, but within 3 months you could not tell this had happened! This was the kind of plant growth we had over much of the world during the dinosour period, they could literally chew down plants and trees and in a couple of months return to eat it all down again.

Also to try to buy organically grown foods can be a real problem with no guarantee that your getting true organic food, this was proven during a 20/20 news investigation where they found pesticide risidue on many "organic" foods; then they went to the farms to discover gross problems with this false labeling and there is no government ruling or protection to force them to guarantee true organic grown foods. It came down to an intrepretation problem that was very similar to ex president Clinton's definition of sex!

Your right most animals raised to eat are not raised in a wholesome place, but then neither is most plants, with experiments on different pesticides and genetic alterations going on to make plants hardy against disease and bugs and to yield more crop, we don't know what we're eating!

Also keep in mind that clips like steele-bikes video are slanted toward their agenda. Take a trip through Texas (as well as other states including California where I live) and all you see is huge grazing ranches where thousands if not millions of cattle can freely run the pastures and eat natural grasses. If you saw clips of this kind of ranching you would not be as impressed with the steele-bike video. Are there cattle situtions like that Steele video shows? Yes, but it's not the rule!

Originally posted by froze
but most men do not do well without meat protein, this has been scientifially proven over the years.

Was it McDonalds financing that "scientific" report?:eek: