Preaching to the choir on saving $$$$

[Nightshade]

Reasons to become car free or car-lite............

http://www.savingadvice.com/forums/printthread.php?t=15574

[Dahon.Steve]

From the article:
>>>>As the energy crisis deepens and gas prices increase people will make less trips, plan trips better, drive less and carpool. They will live closer to where they work. High mileage cars such as the Prius and smaller cars such as the Mini Cooper, will be in demand as will electric cars and hybrid cars.<<<<<

I was listening to the radio where this "Car expert" was discussing why NOT to buy these cars. First, the high cost of these vehicles exceeds any savings in buying the vehicle in the first place! If you're buying these cars, it's for enviromental reasons only and not for saving money. In addition, the new crop of hybrids are very expensive to fix and many shops won't or don't have the knowledge to repair the technical work.

More reasons to become car free.

[Dahon.Steve]

From the article:
>>>In the first quarter of 2005 capital flight out of Mexico amounted to over US$10 billion. In Mexico, 40% of the people live in poverty now and the situation will most likely deteriorate as the effects of global peak oil arrive. This will add to social tensions, illegal immigration to the United States where there may be cultural hegemony struggles between Hispanics and Anglos (who will be a minority in many places) in the Southwest. (The Hispanic Challenge by Samuel P. Huntington) <<<<

It was a good article and I'm going to comment on that statement. I believe what you witnessed in the first half of 2005 was the result of legislation being passed on the building of the "Great Fence" designed to keep illegal immagration out. What it's doing is just the opposite.

Globalism did not raise Mexican wages or their standard of living which is why they are comming here by the truckloads.

[Roody]

So, the upside to peak oil and global warming is that some of us progressive thinking folks can enrich ourselves financially while we're doing the right thing for the world. We already save a ton of money by not having cars and by insulating our houses, for example. And probably some of us will make a ton of money by investing early in the new technologies and products that will be popular in the next few years, like alternative energy companies or the companies that make buses and trains.

I wouldn't mind having a few shares of Xtracycle or Clever Chimp, if they ever go public. :)

[-=£em in Pa=-]

Globalism did not raise Mexican wages or their standard of living which is why they are comming here by the truckloads.

You are one of only a few people Ive seen who seem to realize this.
A lot of US businesss went into Mexico promising great things if they
where allowed to locate there but the reality is WTO trade policies or
the companies that support them are perpetuating this poverty for
profit....keeping wages low and other undesirable practices. If you
have a family and and can get 7.00 an hour for your skill or 2.50 an
hour what are you going to do ?? These people have as much right to
live to the standard their skill level can get them as we do especially.
since our trade policies are in some part responsible for this.

To stay on topic....I save 160.00 a month by riding to work instead
of driving. What sux is still having to pay taxes, insurance and such
on my car that sits. Because I have to travel to PA alot, I sort of
need the car.

[lyeinyoureye]

I was listening to the radio where this "Car expert" was discussing why NOT to buy these cars. First, the high cost of these vehicles exceeds any savings in buying the vehicle in the first place! If you're buying these cars, it's for enviromental reasons only and not for saving money. In addition, the new crop of hybrids are very expensive to fix and many shops won't or don't have the knowledge to repair the technical work.


Well... It depends on your situation. If you're handy with cars, they will definitely save money over a conventional vehicle because the projected cost of a new battery pack is nowhere near the cost of the actual batteries themselves. The one thing that could throw a wrench in your plans is the decision to upgrade to a greater capacity pack and migrate to plug-in, which will require the ECU to be flashed, which isn't very common knowledge, so you're at the mercy of those few individuals who have the knowhow and equipment to do it. But materially, it's a procedure that takes a few minutes and no materials to speak of, so if you explained your situation and asked nicely, they may do it for a few bucks to help out a compadre.

As for the actual cost of replacement batteries, for the current larger capacity (10ah versus 6.5ah) D-cell NiMHs, the cost would be roughly $500 plus tax&S&H, plus whatever the flash would cost, and if you wanted plug-in ability (since you're getting it flashed for more capacity, might as well add plug-in too), the cost of the charger/recepticle. Which may be ~$1k for the DIY'er with the help of a flasher. Now given the rebates available, a Prius can go for ~$18-19k, which isn't much more than a similarly equiped Corolla. The difference being that over 100k miles, a Prius that averages ~50mpg (EPA) compared to a Corolla that averages 35mpg (high EPA) will save the driver ~$2,500. Or, enough for them buy a newer, bigger battery pack when the old one fails and convert it to plug-in, in order to take advantage of the price of electricity compared to the high efficiency electric drive-train and have plenty left over. Also, the Prius is much easier to get stellar mileage with than the Corolla due to it being designed for a constant stop/start regime.

Granted, if you can't DIY yourself, then the costs between the two will be similar. But being at the mercy of "professionals" will always do that, and in that case, it's not that the Prius is less economical, it's that it's less economical if you get ripped off having it worked on. But then again, this applies to almost everything. A plumber will charge you ~$50 just to show up and say hi, plus whatever the labor+parts are. For something that you probably could've done yourself for a fraction of the cost.

I mean, I know this is the car free forums, but using finanacial rationale for justifying a car free lifestyle is kinda silly considering how much we spend on housing, and that going car free will not be cheaper for everyone. Now going "home free" is where you'll really save a lot of cash! ;) Not that going car free won't save some people money. But it won't save everybody money, and as with everything, it's a YMMV situation. So maybe it might be prudent to state "going car free saves me money", instead of "going car free saves money".