Triathlon - I finally "get" swimming

After about 6 trips to the pool, I think I finally understand swimming. Abotu 2 weeks ago I could barely swim 100ft without having to stop. Yesterday, I swam about 1mi with only a few short 10-30sec breaks. Its like everythign just clicked alll of a sudden and I became an efficient swimmer. :)

My problems now are speed and form... both of which I plan on working on over the next 6 months or so. I bought a book called "The triathletes guide to swimming" which I havent read yet, but looks promising.

What time should I be looking at for a "good" .9mi swim? Is 30-40min good?

ttyl,
a.

I assume by .9, you mean 1500 meters. Just for comparison I grabbed the last big Olympic distance race of the season and drew up some perecentages, the top pack is usually 75-80 seconds per hundred so around 21 minutes. Top 10% around 24-25 minutes. Top 25% 28-30 minutes.

Just one recommendation. Do intervals. Either 50s, 100s, or 200s or 400s. Keep track of pace and you will see improvement.

What time should I be looking at for a "good" .9mi swim? Is 30-40min good?

I would say that 25 minutes or better is good for that length swim in a tri.
30 minutes is 'ok'

By the way congrats on swimming continuosly with few breaks. It is a hard thing to get used to. If I don't do a good warm up, I have trouble finishing my workouts because they seem to long.

Thanks for the numbers guys. I am serously dedicated to getting faster by springtime. Im trying to swim 3x per week right now for a minimum of 1 hour. Im going to aim for that 25 minute time!

One other thing... what gets the smell of chlorine out!? Sheesh.. I showered twice, and I still smell like chlorine today!

You'll learn to appreciate the smell of chlorine as a "badge" of training. :lol:

My goal is to be able to swim 1.5 miles with no breaks without being tired afterwards (no time goal, just to simply finish at a reasonable pace so i can still bike/run afterwards). :) I've gotten to 1200 yards in about 30-40 minutes but i can't get any further because i run out of time when the pool closes for the night... :( :D

After about 6 trips to the pool, I think I finally understand swimming. Abotu 2 weeks ago I could barely swim 100ft without having to stop. Yesterday, I swam about 1mi with only a few short 10-30sec breaks. Its like everythign just clicked alll of a sudden and I became an efficient swimmer. :)

Any tips for the rest of us who are breathing hard after several laps?

Force yourself to breathe every 3 strokes so you breathe on both sides. Master that and you can go as far as you want.

I've been told to think about your head position, your shoulder and hip rotation in the water, and to relax. There's a lot more to it than that obviously, but it's a good place to start! I used to struggle like you wouldn't believe, until i had a few lessons. I'm not exactly fish like now, but i'm certainly enjoying it more, and not feeling knackered and blowing out of my backside after two lengths!!!!!

I have been wanting to take a course from here http://www.totalimmersion.net.

One other thing... what gets the smell of chlorine out!? Sheesh.. I showered twice, and I still smell like chlorine today!

Nothing. You can usually get to the point where nobody but your S.O. and you would notice, but it takes a looong time to fade and every time you get wet (even if it's not chlorinated water) it smells 10x stronger (if you don't believe me.. try licking your arm.. or just ask your S.O. :p)

Edit: Oh, and the best advice I ever heard someone give a struggling swimmer was: "Don't fight the water, use the water"

Any tips for the rest of us who are breathing hard after several laps?

I am also a beginning swimmer -- maybe two months now -- and have seen significant improvement by learning a bit of technique. I searched the Web, and learned simple things like keeping one hand extended while the other one comes forward and rotating from side to side.

There is a lot of "how to" material on the Web -- here are links (http://del.icio.us/lpress/swimming) to things I have found helpful. Check out the Grant Hackett video (http://www.faculty.sbc.edu/mcalarco/hackett1.mpeg) and the article (http://www.usms.org/articles/articledisplay.php?a=81) on keeping your arms extended for a start.

Larry

My one big thing, that most triathletes for somereason dont do. Lift weights. I dropped my 750m time from 12:48 to 11:13 in about 4 months.

I recomend it, so take it as you want...

Any tips for the rest of us who are breathing hard after several laps?

What I noticed was that I needed to focus on ONE thing at a time. Breathing, technique, or speed. I'm not great at putting them all together right now. So my first thing was focusing on breathing. I knew my endurance was good, I just wasnt used to totally controlled breathing during excersize. When I cycle or run, I just breathe..

One important thing is to focus on your good side to breathe. Get used to rolling one direction and breathing ever couple strokes. Also, get a pull buoy. You can hold it and kick, and learn to breathe without worrying about your arms.

I do think the most important thing is to focus on one aspect at a time though, and start putting them together as you progress. Start with breathing, move to form+breathing, then move to form+breathing+speed. Thats my .02 anyway.

best of luck!

a

Just wanted to add my experience.

I started swimming in late June. Back then, couldn't swim 25m without stopping and wanting to cry.

Hit the pool almost everyday in June, and most of July. Then, simmered down to 3x's a week. Got some informal lessons from a Masters swimmer in the beginning, then integrated the Total Immersion system from the book and DVD.

I can now swim 2000-2500m per lunch-hour workout, 3x's a week. And I come out of the pool feeling great, barely winded it seems. My average pace over 1000m is 2'13"/100m--which in swimming circles is very slow. But I'm working on it. The advice of my tri and swimming buddies was join a Masters Swim program. So, I did last week, attending my first workout. Intervals and intensity, that's what the Masters are about and that's what makes you fast so it seems.

http://www.swim2000.com/page.php?p=freeworkouts

Hopefully helpful to some of you. Sends an email every sat/sun with a week's worth of workouts. (Sometimes it skips a couple weeks).

cool.. I subscribed, hopefully its pretty good! Thanks for the tip

Basically, workout like a swimmer. Do 6x200 more often than you do the one long swim. Competitive swimmers do one IM day per week. All other days they're doing mostly L3 workouts.

Work on your "catch" more than you think you should. Do sculling drills. Get a feel for scooping water sideways in order to move forward.

You can do those total immersion drills all you want, but IMO power affords good technique.

Power is important, but you will not get power without the proper technique. I did a few biathlons this summer (swim/run) and despite being 100lbs overweight and not in terribly good shape, I was passing people who run triathlons and are in excellent shape, but are not good swimmers. One of the most important things in distance swimming is that you stretch your stroke out. Picture yourself trying to reach your stroke out as far as possible. This forces your body into the proper rotation for maximum glide and minimum resistance through the water.

Any suggestions on keeping track of laps? I have problems keeping track up to 15 for a sprint distance - I'm sure I sometimes do 14 or 18 (as I actually do 16 laps so that I'm back at the shallow end to get out) because I mess up counting.

I sort of imagined trying to find one of those scorekeeping sliders from an old table football table or pool table something... but that might look a bit odd at a public pool.

Any suggestions on keeping track of laps? I have problems keeping track up to 15 for a sprint distance - I'm sure I sometimes do 14 or 18 (as I actually do 16 laps so that I'm back at the shallow end to get out) because I mess up counting.

I was somewhat suprised to learn that this is a more common problem than I would have guessed. As an undergraduate one of my majors was math, so not being able to count correctly when in the water is particularly irritating :)

I have 2 suggestions and they both work for me. The first is to use letters instead of numbers, so the first lap is `a', the second 'b', etc. I don't know why this works better for me but it does.

The second is to use a finger ring lap counter like this one: http://www.swim-shop.com/product_info.php?products_id=33839

All I have to remember to do is push the large button with my thumb once a lap. So far I have never failed to be able to count to one.

I was somewhat suprised to learn that this is a more common problem than I would have guessed. As an undergraduate one of my majors was math, so not being able to count correctly when in the water is particularly irritating :)

I have 2 suggestions and they both work for me. The first is to use letters instead of numbers, so the first lap is `a', the second 'b', etc. I don't know why this works better for me but it does.

The second is to use a finger ring lap counter like this one: http://www.swim-shop.com/product_info.php?products_id=33839

All I have to remember to do is push the large button with my thumb once a lap. So far I have never failed to be able to count to one.

I use the Sportcount when swimming a large # of laps, and it is now an indispensible workout tool. It permits me to concentrate on Stroke Count, and not worry about losing track of # of laps I've swam.

I don't count in laps, I count in distance. As in "that was 100, that was 150, that was 200" etc. Don't know why. Been doing it for almost 30 years, so it's second nature. That's not to say that my mind doesn't wander, though. If I get lost, I'll just glance at the clock and I can tell where I am based on my pace.

I also had a recent relevation in swimming. I've been swimming for about 3 months now, was usually limited to about 30-40 mins continuous swimming (about 1500m). I breathed every other stroke, always on the right side. A few days ago I saw someone breathing every stroke and a half, alternating sides. I decided to give it a go. Took a few laps before I stopped inhaling water on the left side, but I ended up swimming 3000m in a little under an hour. With warmup and cooldown I was in the pool 70min. Came out tired, but not sore like I usually am. Today my muscles are a little fatigued, but not overly so. I think I'll even go for a short run.

Jerky... thats awesome! Im up to swimming about 1750m in 40 mins now. I too breathe every other stroke on the right side. After abotu 30 mins though my neck gets somewhat tight and I switch to breathing on my left. Im much slower breathing on my left, but at least my neck relaxes.

Im going to try this 1.5 stroke breathing concept.... sounds kinda interesting to me. The only other way I have tried to breath is on the 4th stroke on the right side, but after a few laps I need more air so I have to go back to breathing every other stroke.

I feel bad for you guys who didn't grow up swimming and/or didn't swim competitively when you were younger. Efficient, seamless swimming is a hard skill to learn as an adult. I swam, played waterpolo and was an ocean lifeguard in Los Angeles for six years; swimming is natural for me. For those of you trying to "get into it"; you need to buy a video, or better yet, get some instruction from a good teacher...BUT, the most important thing is to spend alot of time in the water putting those skills to work...it will feel uncomfortable at first when you employ some minutia of stroke adjustment, but you need to do it. Another thing, get REAL comfortable in the water. Keep your face planted down there, maybe don't wear goggles once every few workouts. I don't wear goggles for swim races unless it is in a pool because I need to see the end of the wall to ensure precise timing for my flip turn. In lakes or the ocean, goggles just make it harder to see the course marker when you lift your head to get your bearing. Also, learn to open your eyes under water when you race, ocean or not, it will help. If you decide you don't like doing that, at least be comfortable with it; it will help with your overall comfort level in the water.

Hi,

I'm training for my 1st triathlon. Do you or anyone on this forum know where I can get a good used road/tri bike at? I cant afford the $600 + prices I see everywhere. I'm running in an event called team in training for leukemia and lymphoma. (fundraiser) Please let me know here, email me, or visit the webpage at: www.active.com/donate//tntgaMDavis

thanks guys

Mark Davis
pyramidperfect@yahoo.com

Hi,

I'm training for my 1st triathlon. Do you or anyone on this forum know where I can get a good used road/tri bike at? I cant afford the $600 + prices I see everywhere.
Mark Davis
pyramidperfect@yahoo.com
Mark-
I'd look for some used bike shops where you live, so you could see the bike first hand. If you know what size bike you need, you might also consider ebay, craigslist, etc.

talking about technique...

i'm relatively new to swimming- but i've run and biked my whole life. one thing that helped me get everything to "work" was to start exhaling through my nose the second i put my face back in the water. that way, when i come to that stroke where i roll over and breathe- i'm ready for a full suction of air. you dont have to waiste half the time exhaling.

it sounds stupid in retrospect- but as a kid you learn to hold your breathe in the water and breathe when youre out of the water. by exhaling underwater and inhaling every third stroke... you have a much more rhythmic and constant breathing...

not the suffocation/expunge/gasp to fill lungs/hold... repeat cycle you probably learned as a kid.

am i making any sense?

Unless you were coached as a kid, it will be more benificial to spend much more time on technique than fitness, power & Endurance - by getting technique right you can go much faster with less effort...

I have decent training advice & I break it down into 3-4(30-40 min) techinical sessions on my own per week & 1-2 endrunce seesions with the Tri club.. I break technical sessions into drills for body position/drag reduction, timing of strock & breath, arm technique..

The biggest awakening for me was drills on body position, I could kick with arms by side and because drag was reduced so much I was moving fast for leg kick only - then when I went back to normal stroke I was able to feel how bad my old body posn was and how much drag slows me..

Get good instruction/technical advice and work on that - in my own experience to much time spent pouding lengths is wasted if your technique is poor... the more tired I get in a tough session the worst my tecnique gets & I get slower & slower - at that point I am simply ingraing bad technique & making myself a poorer swimmer

> The biggest awakening for me was drills on body position ...

Can you describe the drill a bit more so we can try it?

Larry

The most basic drill is :

swimming with hands by yr side, the surface of the water shud cut the top of your head in half, eyes down and slightly forward, try to extend/stretch yr neck , next is to engage the core muscles - engage the abs and try to pull your belly bottom towards yr back, finally what they call 'pressing the T', kind of gently pushing your shoulders and chest downwards...

then simply kick fm the hips, with kness and ankles relaxed...

Basiacally the idea is get boyant and reduce drag and I personally was amazed how boyant my body was in this posn - if done correctly you will be able with hands by side to keep almost completely horizontal in the water and move very smoothly with a simple efficient kick..

to breath lift yr head to the front when you need to breath - although it is better to do the drill with a swimmers front snorkel...

I have found you need strong core muscles to maintain this position when doing your normal swimming stroke, the aim is to maintain this position when swimming - it is not so easy, but any improvement in body position greatly reduces drag and speeds you up.

What I like about it - is that it gives me the feeling of where I need to be and slowly I can try to ingrain this position into my normal stroke... & I can feel straight away if my body position is poor and I am creating too much drag..

The next stage is to incorporate rotation and breathing while maintaining the body position..

Any suggestions on keeping track of laps? I have problems keeping track up to 15 for a sprint distance - I'm sure I sometimes do 14 or 18 (as I actually do 16 laps so that I'm back at the shallow end to get out) because I mess up counting.

I sort of imagined trying to find one of those scorekeeping sliders from an old table football table or pool table something... but that might look a bit odd at a public pool.

Use the alphabet instead of numbers. Easier to keep track of that way.

It's true that most of my gains are made by focusing on technique, but I find that the more time I spend in the water the more natural it is for my technique to improve. I found that one of the breakthrough I made was in just being able to relax into my stroke.

My kick, however, is really weak and in order to up my endurance I had to slow down my kick. What's a good way to strengthen my kick. I swim with flippers regularly to loosen my ankles and build some kicking power, but it still get fatigued easily doing kick board sets.

Just to chime in, I'm surprised that only one person here recommended strength training. I've been a lifter for a long shile, but never concentrated much on my shoulders, lats, and triceps. I've always been a fast swimmer, and always place in the top third of swimming events even though I barely use my legs.

I did some lap timing a couple months ago and have worked specifically on my shoulders and rotator cuff, triceps, and worked hard on mastering pullups as well.

Got back in the pool and it almost felt like there WAS no water. I was pulling myself along effortlessly, and beat my old time by 25% for 400m. I was amazed at what the strengthening of those tiny little rotators and flexors will do.

I actually swim without using my legs at all, i kick only enough to keep them afloat and in place (the wetsuit also helps with that). That way i save them for the bike and run. :D

I find counting laps like: "1 going on 2" helps, then I don't lose track as easily. So if I did 3 laps and am going on 4, I think '3-4, 3-4, 3-4". If you get mixed up, I find that gives me a better 'visual' as to where I was, if you skip a lap, it'll sound funnier in your head. Also, you can think of the significance of any key numbers to help keep track of where you are, eg birthdays, perfect squares etc.


Any suggestions on keeping track of laps? I have problems keeping track up to 15 for a sprint distance - I'm sure I sometimes do 14 or 18 (as I actually do 16 laps so that I'm back at the shallow end to get out) because I mess up counting.

I sort of imagined trying to find one of those scorekeeping sliders from an old table football table or pool table something... but that might look a bit odd at a public pool.

I assume by .9, you mean 1500 meters. Just for comparison I grabbed the last big Olympic distance race of the season and drew up some perecentages, the top pack is usually 75-80 seconds per hundred so around 21 minutes. Top 10% around 24-25 minutes. Top 25% 28-30 minutes.


I should note... Those times are open water times. Alot of triathlon swims vary in distance, and are effected by currents. So one day you can swim 25mins the next 17.

In fact... top triathletes in a pool (50m) will be swimming around the 17.30-18min mark, Craig Walton is somewhere between 16-17 I think. The "average joe" will normally be around 1.30-1.40 pace/100m (22.30-25mins, with maybe 1.45 lower limit for women). Below average, anything below 27.30mins (1.50/100m). Of course this is going to depend on your age. But really if you cant swim under 27.30mins you've got some major technique problems, or haven't done enough swimming training.

That said. There is absolutley nothing wrong with swimming 30mins+, the vast majority out there would give up after 200m. So good on you and keep up the good work.

Mark.

I am 56 years old and have been doing tri's for 6 years. I swam competitively from age 7 years through high school. Back in those days we were taught to keep our body flat (no rotation) and our hair line at water level. There was no such thing as front quadrant swimming. I have been trying to change my swimming technique for the past 6 years and I am just frustrated with the whole thing. I think I swam better and faster before trying to swim "correctly". Sometimes I think I should just swim and not think about technique. About 20 years ago I was into open water swimming races (no wetsuits back then!) and swam the "old" way and did fine. I swam a 2.4 mile lake race once in about 1.5 hours.

Chineeze Guy,

I'm 56 and right there with you. My indoor time (Best recent) for 1500 meters is 26:45 but it balloons to 30 minutes even in open water tri's. I have been trying to rotate, to stretch, to rotate the hips and all that other stuff for over a year with no real improvement seen. I wish I would have just spent all that time and effort swimming my old way (flat in the water, follow through, kick occassionally, head at hairline depth, first hand movement actually inside to out!) and just working harder.

A few months ago I said screw it and started training like I was a 20 something. Warm ups, intervals, sprints, puke in the gutter sort of thing. I am now getting faster!

We'll see.

Tyson