Singlespeed & Fixed Gear - How long does a track chain last?

I busted my first chain on my fixed gear. This chain was about three to four years old. I heard these last a long time, but I guess not that long. I have been riding fixed gear for about five years now, so once in five years isn't that bad. I wish I could say the same thing for my mountain bike!

I endoed and bruised my thigh bad, and broke a coulple of fingers becasue holding on to the cowhorn bars. Nothing major.

Any recommendations on chains?? I have been using the Sachs PC1 BMX/Track chain.

Get the special extra wide read cog and a moped chain. That's what I use. Not really for breakage issues as much as stretching issues with the chain. It's just a tad bit more heavy duty than the BMX chains.

-Andy

My track chains last about 2 years each. I do ride on it a lot, and I don't ride it until it's absolutely nessesary to replace (until the loose spot becomes too great), so I'm sure you could get a little more out of them. Your 5 year track chain sounds like you're pushing it, though, unless you don't ride that bike very much.

What is a "moped" chain?

A moped chain is the chain used on a moped. Like a scooter (Vespa) in power but generally smaller and slower and more motorcycle shaped.

umm......Vespas are a bit different than mopeds......

I believe that he said that they were like them in power, and more motorcycle shaped.

Thanks Phatman :)


Oh also, because the stretching on a chain is not even, try "rotating" the chain once and a while to put the stretch in another spot and you might eke out a little more life in the chain without one of the links breaking (as one also must do with that skid spot on the back tire :)

-Andy

Oh also, because the stretching on a chain is not even, try "rotating" the chain once and a while to put the stretch in another spot and you might eke out a little more life in the chain without one of the links breaking (as one also must do with that skid spot on the back tire

?????

What on earth are you talking about? Don't you know that a chain rotates on it's own?? And what on earth are you talking about when you say that chains don't stretch evenly?? Chains don't stretch-pins wear and the bearing surfaces elongate. And that remark about the tyre, well, that's just plain dumb.

the idea is to not get flat spots on the tyre :p

Brendon
:beer:

Originally posted by D*Alex
?????

What on earth are you talking about? Don't you know that a chain rotates on it's own?? And what on earth are you talking about when you say that chains don't stretch evenly?? Chains don't stretch-pins wear and the bearing surfaces elongate. And that remark about the tyre, well, that's just plain dumb.

The chain does not stretch evenly.

Rotating the chain and rear tire on a fixed gear single speed is highly recommeneded the same way rotating your tires (not spining, ///rotating///, on a car is highly reccommened.

The chain (unless you are using an odd front to rear ratio - many or most people use even ratios like 3:1 or 4:1) will always have the same links and pins in the same place in it's cycle unless you shift which links and pins are where by rotating it (which if you get enough flats you will probably do by accident anyhow). The tension is not evenly spaced along the chain because the front and back cogs on most bicycles will not be perfectly aligned so some parts of the chain get pulled on more than others. The stress on the chain is very high as the optimal tension for the chain should be sooooo high that if the rear axel is one tenth of a millimiter further back on the rear stays and the chain will be too tight to let the back wheel turn readily.

The rear wheel/tire on a fixed gear bicycle tends to always stop on leg locking on the same spots. This is because when you leg lock to stop most people have a favored foot position for this so the same spot(s) on the tire wear down quicker unless the rear wheel is shifted by a couple of gear teeth to alter what those same spots are or unless you are one of those weirdos with odd gear ratios like 5:2 :)

Mind you this applies mostly (but hardly exclusively) to people riding fixed gear bicycles with normal gear ratios on the street(which if you are not one of those people you will not understand my statements and call them dumb because you are do not use your bicylce the same way as me and not comprehend the wear it puts on your bicycle)

When you ride a fixed gear bicycle 30-40 miles a day in high speed sprints through urban traffic you will notice far different tire and chain wear than someone who uses the same bike to ride in circles on a track and slows to a stop instead of leaving lines of smoking rubber on the pavement.

-Andy

So I could put a mark on one chain link and note it's position, note the position of the crank arms and put another mark on the tire and note it's position.

Then if I spin the crank arm 30 times and end up in the exact same crank arm position, will the chain mark and the tire mark be in the same position as the start? Or, will it eventually be in the same position due to some cycle?


???? Is this correct ?????

But this only works for even ratios. What is an even ratio???

:confused:

An even ratio is something that can be reduced to smaller numbers like 48:16 to 3:1 or 56:14 to 4:1 as opposed to something like 52:17 which can't be reduced at all.

And if you had say a 3:1 ratio and spun your crank 30 times the back wheel would spin 90 times (provided it's a fixed gear) and at the end of those 30 crank spins or 90 wheel spins the same spot of the tire that was on the ground to begin with would be right back there.

Thus if you have 3:1 and always leg lock to a skidding stop with your feet in the same position (which nearly everyone does) the spot of the tire you slide on would always be the same.

The nicest thing about this is you can figure out your exact speed or distance traveled without a fancy bike computer all by doing simple math in your head while riding. :)

-Andy

It seems to me that you would have three wear spots on your rear tire if you use a 3:1 ratio and 4 if you use a 4:1. You complete a "cycle" every three or four complete rotations of the crank arms.

It would seem to me that using even ratios would be a disadvantage in this aspect. What are the advantages to using even ratios? I have searched the site and can find no info on even ratios.

I have been riding a converted road bike to a fixed gear for about 4 years. I use it mostly as a training tool and fun, most of my miles are from a conventional road bike. I use a 42x16 ratio because that is what I had lying around. I have never heard of or tried a leg lock, I just coast to a stop. I definately want to give this a try though!!!

Don't you go through alot of tires???

Originally posted by captsven
Don't you go through alot of tires???


Yep,like 1 every 3-4wks on rear...about 800miles,if that.Im using armadillos.Track chains last about 3000miles or so,by then they are stretched enough that I dont trust em,broken one before and I will never let that happen again.

I endoed and bruised my thigh bad, and broke a coulple of fingers becasue holding on to the cowhorn bars. Nothing major.

Nothing major? Breaking a couple of fingers is no big deal for you? Damn.

WOW, five years.

I barely remember that. I still don't use those chains!

umm......Vespas are a bit different than mopeds......

Not really.

If you ride a lot, replace the chain often. Vigorous cleaning rituals, rotating, etc. are a waste when good chains are less than a decent tire.

Thanks Phatman :)


Oh also, because the stretching on a chain is not even, try "rotating" the chain once and a while to put the stretch in another spot and you might eke out a little more life in the chain without one of the links breaking (as one also must do with that skid spot on the back tire :)

-Andy
Actually, according to sheldon brown you should do the inverse of that. If you make sure your chain is always installed in the exact same position, each link will strech the same, so your chain will last longer.

And if you had say a 3:1 ratio and spun your crank 30 times the back wheel would spin 90 times (provided it's a fixed gear) and at the end of those 30 crank spins or 90 wheel spins the same spot of the tire that was on the ground to begin with would be right back there.


-Andy

3:1= 30 rotations of crank, 10 of wheel
1:3=30 rotations of crank, 90 rotations of wheel.

A moped chain is the chain used on a moped. Like a scooter (Vespa) in power but generally smaller and slower and more motorcycle shaped.

Except for the ones that are mopeds. Most states define moped to be a scooter with an engine smaller than 50cc (49.9 counts). EX: Vespa LX50 (49.0cc).

3:1= 30 rotations of crank, 10 of wheel
1:3=30 rotations of crank, 90 rotations of wheel.

Semantics, i think everyone knew what he meant.

3:1= 30 rotations of crank, 10 of wheel
1:3=30 rotations of crank, 90 rotations of wheel.

Actually, no. Either one is a perfectly valid ratio. You must define what both numbers mean before you can start telling people they are wrong.

The stress on the chain is very high as the optimal tension for the chain should be sooooo high that if the rear axel is one tenth of a millimiter further back on the rear stays and the chain will be too tight to let the back wheel turn readily.

this is completely and utterly WRONG. where the hell did you hear this BS?

Except for the ones that are mopeds. Most states define moped to be a scooter with an engine smaller than 50cc (49.9 counts). EX: Vespa LX50 (49.0cc).

registered as a moped, yes. but not really a moped. a moped has a MOtor and PEDals. MO-PED. a 49.4 cc vespa is still a scooter not matter how you slice it.

I don't measure chain use in months or years but by the mileage... I was riding enough last year to warrant chain replacements every 2 to 3 months.

this is why i use the wonderfully random ratio of 44x17. i do have about 8 well defined skid spots, but i think that is how all 17 of them blended (some are only 2-3 inches long, others are 8-10 inches long. i also skid with either foot, and don't hold it in one spot while skidding. sometimes i like to backpedal a bit. it makes life more fun. i still don't know why people use 3:1 and 4:1 ratios. just tweak it a bit and learn to pedal a bit harder, or spin a few rpm more. your body will adapt.

people run 3:1 because all these cheap completes running around come stock with a 48x16 ratio

I went down a tooth to a 15 on the back and went up two teeth to a 50 tooth when I got my current fixed gear. I tried 48x16 on my old schwinn right before it was stolen and didn't like it.

50x15 gear is 3.3333333333333333:1

Actually, no. Either one is a perfectly valid ratio. You must define what both numbers mean before you can start telling people they are wrong.

Tabor, post a pic, any pic of any modern bike with a rear cog with three times as many teeth as the front cog. I'd love to see it but I just don't think they are common.

Tabor, post a pic, any pic of any modern bike with a rear cog with three times as many teeth as the front cog. I'd love to see it but I just don't think they are common.

You missed the whole point that a mathematical ratio doesn't care which side the front and rear cogs are on.

EDIT- Post a pic of a math book that says the otherwise.

Actually, no. Either one is a perfectly valid ratio. You must define what both numbers mean before you can start telling people they are wrong.
BS. All ratios for gears mean (First input): (second imput) .Its the standard for any ratio of gearing.
3:1= three turns of the crank, one turn of rear sprocket on a bike, 3 turns of the crank means one turn of the output shaft in a transmission, and 3 turns of the output shaft/driveshaft of a car= one revolution of the axles after going through the differential.

Heres a mathmatical "proof" if you will, since you want proof mathwise.
R= i/o w
here R=Ratio, , I=Input=crank RPMS and O=output=wheel rpms
30/90=3/9= 1/3
1/3:1= (1/3)*3 : (1)*3=1:3
90/30=3, which is 3:1 ratio

His ratio is wrong.

30:90 crank/wheel(what he described) That kind of gearing would be impossible to ride. Even a road bike triple with a 30t "granny gear" front and 23t rear is only a 1.4:1 gear ratio, and thats impossible to spin unless your going up a steep road.

Even a worn chain shouldn't bust like that.

I've gotten 600 (dud chain), 3500 (still going), 4000, 5000 and 7500 miles out of chains on my fixed gear bicycle before reaching 'stretched' indicator on check gauge.

Dry weather and clean roads are most important for chain life (assuming same cleaning schedule)

Al

I've gotten 600 (dud chain), 3500 (still going), 4000, 5000 and 7500 miles out of chains on my fixed gear bicycle before reaching 'stretched' indicator on check gauge.

How on earth do you folks keep track of how many miles you've put on a chain?

BS. All ratios for gears mean (First input): (second imput) .Its the standard for any ratio of gearing. You buy a 4.11:1 rear end gear anywhere in the world, and you are getting a gear that will turn the wheels one time for every 4.11 revolutions of the driveshaft.

3:1= three turns of the crank, one turn of rear sprocket

1:3(what he described) is one turn of the crank, 3 turns of the rear sprocket. That kind of gearing would be impossible to ride. Even a road bike triple with a 30t front and 23t rear is only a 1.4:1 gear ratio, and thats impossible to spin unless your going up a steep road.

Maybe you are correct that there is a defacto standard in the engineering community for input gears and output gears. But you are still arguing semantics. It is a ratio between two numbers.

1 turn of the wheels : 4.11 turn of the driveshaft

and

4.11 turn of the driveshaft : 1 turn of the wheels

are mathematically identical.


also, any math student or professor could tell you that 1:3 and 3:1 are NOT the same.

Do you have a math degree? Because I do.

How on earth do you folks keep track of how many miles you've put on a chain?

Some folks have odometers on their bikes, even their fixed ones.

this is completely and utterly WRONG. where the hell did you hear this BS?
no doubt. wtf is up with that advice? hilarious.

Do you have a math degree? Because I do.

Skipped the part on induction did you? I'd argue that given a ratio of x:y and the information that y is never >3x and rarely greater than x that it is easy to determine what is meant even if the ratio is presented in the opposite order.

In construction, a 3:1 fill slope (3' horz. for every 1' vert.) is alot different than a 1:3 slope (quite steep).
So I would expect a gear ratio to be assumed to be front/rear, never thought it would be taken otherwise.

In construction, a 3:1 fill slope (3' horz. for every 1' vert.) is alot different than a 1:3 slope (quite steep).
So I would expect a gear ratio to be assumed to be front/rear, never thought it would be taken otherwise.

...because bikes are piles of dirt.

Oh also, because the stretching on a chain is not even, try "rotating" the chain once and a while to put the stretch in another spot and you might eke out a little more life in the chain without one of the links breaking (as one also must do with that skid spot on the back tire :)


Sources?

This sounds more reasonable: http://www.sheldonbrown.com/chain-life.html

A track chain lasts a lot longer if you set it up so that the ratio of chainring teeth to cog teeth is a step in the Fibonacci sequence. It's a mathematical law of nature.

Buy a chain checker/chain wear indicator and don't be a ******. 3 years on a regularly ridden chain is stupid. Chains are cheap. I replace mine about every 6 months!

^ here, here. Even with brakes, or even a road bike, a broken chain can cause serious injury. Depending on mileage and the road/weather conditions, I replace my chains 1 or 2 times per season. And that isn't even for safety: the chain is cheaper than the rest of the drivetrain and you only need to see what a worn chain can do to the chainring to understand. When I worked in the shop, I'd see rings that looked like sawblades the wear was so uneven...
chain = $
ring = $$$
chain = hard
ring = soft

Heres a mathmatical "proof" if you will, since you want proof mathwise.
R= i/o w
here R=Ratio, , I=Input=crank RPMS and O=output=wheel rpms
30/90=3/9= 1/3
1/3:1= (1/3)*3 : (1)*3=1:3
90/30=3, which is 3:1 ratio

Good for you, you defined units so the ratio in you example would be wrong.


Skipped the part on induction did you? I'd argue that given a ratio of x:y and the information that y is never >3x and rarely greater than x that it is easy to determine what is meant even if the ratio is presented in the opposite order.

What part of "you are only changing the units" don't you understand?

Damn, all this argument over something that everyone involved already understood.

Damn, all this argument over something that everyone involved already understood.

I like ur username!!!11~

Question about chains...I ghetto rigged a fixie on an old peogeot by screwing on a 19 tooth surly cog and an bb lockring, shortening the chain and running the chain through the inside chainring. The problem is that is doesnt seem to "flow" arount the rear cog, looks like it doesn't fit or something. The info I read online abou the Surly cog was that is could handle all chains...suggestions? help?

http://harriscyclery.net/itemdetails.cfm?ID=2195
Surly cog...