Road Cycling - What's wrong with riding a triathlon bike in a road bike crew?

From an earlier post, some people advised me that some biking groups don't enjoy having triathlon bikes as part of the riding crew. I can't believe that they have such a hard time turning that people worry for their safety. Is this true at all, and if so, what's the reason why tri-bikes don't do as well when riding in a group of road bikes?

I ride in a group with a few tri bikes and nobody has a problem with them. I've heard of people getting irritate when they drop to their aero bars in the middle of a group because of the lessened stability, but I can't think of another reason.

Depending on how tri-bikey the bike is (full bullhorns, bar-end shifters), it's harder to control the bike in a large pack when you're aero. People just don't want to end up in a pile. That could be socially awkward.

I don't mind riding with a tri bike or road bike equipped with aero bars, but I get very nervous when the rider goes into the areo position because they are much more unstable. I usually leave a larger gap when the person does this.

As urbanknight said it's just when the multi-sport bike riders get in a aero position with there arms together and away from their brakes levers.

It's only partly the bike. The other part is what a tri-bike says about the rider. Triathletes don't ride in packs during their event and so their pack riding skills are suspect, even if the bike doesn't handle so badly.

It's only partly the bike. The other part is what a tri-bike says about the rider. Triathletes don't ride in packs during their event and so their pack riding skills are suspect, even if the bike doesn't handle so badly.

Huh. Never thought of that. That's a really good point

I would think that Triathletes would be some of the BEST pack riders - they're probably some of the most competitive athletes out there, and I'd bet a huge percentage of them ride in training groups more than most non-racing road cyclists.

i have no problems with triathletes and enjoy riding with them.

No problem in the least. The only thing you wouldn't want to do is ride in the aero bars (unless you are in front). Otherwise, it is all good.

I would think that Triathletes would be some of the BEST pack riders.
Here's some advice - don't think. Unless you've tried to ride with some geek who drops onto the aero bars in the pack or when rolling back along the paceline with the bike wandering around and his hands 2 seconds away from the brakes you ought not to issue opinions.

Don't go for little sprints along the way on group rides either. Someone tried that once and took out five of us.

I would think that Triathletes would be some of the BEST pack riders.


Why? Triathletes aren't allowed to draft in their races, so they would not have a need to learn pack riding. Riding in a pack is something that takes experience and practice. I have a friend training for some Tri's next year and specifically does not want to even draft when we ride together, as he doesn't want to get used to it.

It has nothing to do with what kind of athlete they are, it has to do with what skills they practice.

It's not that a triathlete is automatically bad at pack riding, but a hardcore triathlete has to practice 3 sports, so he likely may not have the time to practice paceline technique etc.

-D

Why? Triathletes aren't allowed to draft in their races, so they would not have a need to learn pack riding. Riding in a pack is something that takes experience and practice. I have a friend training for some Tri's next year and specifically does not want to even draft when we ride together, as he doesn't want to get used to it.

It has nothing to do with what kind of athlete they are, it has to do with what skills they practice.

It's not that a triathlete is automatically bad at pack riding, but a hardcore triathlete has to practice 3 sports, so he likely may not have the time to practice paceline technique etc.

-D

I've heard that the Florida IM has lots of drafting, so if your from that state no worries.

Some of us were very experienced cyclists before we became Triathletes. Just because we have aerobars on a road bike or a full Tri setup, doesn't automaticly mean that we can't ride in a group.

Yes, we have three sports to practice, but we tend to be very hard core about them. Any decent triathlete can ride in a group.

Matrix2k1

I would think that Triathletes would be some of the BEST pack riders - they're probably some of the most competitive athletes out there, and I'd bet a huge percentage of them ride in training groups more than most non-racing road cyclists.
Not necessarily true. As mentioned above, some triathletes prefer to train alone since they can't draft in competition. That being said, I have ridden with triathletes with no problem and most of the real triathletes know not to use the aero bars in a pack. My concern is the neophyte who just spent his CEO bonus on a $5000 bike and outfitted it with tri bars just because they looked cool. True triathletes actually control their bikes in the aero bars better than newbies can when in the tops, so I don't worry about them as much. The hard part is deciding which kind of a person it is the moment you see someone tucking into the aero bars.

I think a lot of the fear of tri-geeks (no offense intended, lots of friends who are tri-geeks) riding in a group is that when they are tucked there are two main concerns, their hands bein away from their brakes, and lack of sudden control like when theirs a pot-hole or they have to swerve to avoid something. I'd say urbanknight says it best also, theirs a lot of people (specially in so cal) that are new to riding road bikes in general, then they throw on areo bars for the wrong reasons and try to use them at the wrong times.

It has nothing to do with what kind of athlete they are, it has to do with what skills they practice.

It's not that a triathlete is automatically bad at pack riding...
-D

prolly the byword in most group rides out here. Riders with 'geek bars' on their bikes doesn't exclude them in any way from most of the rides. In fact our Saturday club ride is very oriented to bringing new (new to the area, new to group riding) riders out, and ocassionally a TRI geek. If a rider is obviously 'new' or unaccustomed to being in a peleton type group, then their 'approach' to being in the ride is quickly measured by everyone. I can't remember anyone ever being spoken to. More often they learn to adjust quickly and find a comfortable place and 'learning pace'. So they are certainly welcome in most rides around here.
Commonly, even though the TRI population out here is quite big; very very few seem to join regular road rides. Commonly I usually see TRI riders out on their own or if in a group, its 3-4 riders all working a small pace line. I rarely see anyone with TRI equipment in our hills, climbing.
Why, I don;t know... maybe its a gearing/equipment thing. Maybe climbing is perceived by TRI to not be of much use. In any case, the more climbing sections on rides, the less frequently we see TRI with us.

I think a lot of the fear of tri-geeks (no offense intended, lots of friends who are tri-geeks) riding in a group is that when they are tucked there are two main concerns, their hands bein away from their brakes, and lack of sudden control like when theirs a pot-hole or they have to swerve to avoid something. I'd say urbanknight says it best also, theirs a lot of people (specially in so cal) that are new to riding road bikes in general, then they throw on areo bars for the wrong reasons and try to use them at the wrong times.
I'm starting to think the poseur concern is more rampant in CA :D btw I stopped worrying about the brakes part when I noticed plenty of roadies riding in the tops, which is really just as far from the brakes as the aero bars. Definitely agree with you on the quick reflexes issue though.

I'm starting to think the poseur concern is more rampant in CA :D btw I stopped worrying about the brakes part when I noticed plenty of roadies riding in the tops, which is really just as far from the brakes as the aero bars. Definitely agree with you on the quick reflexes issue though.

Its not so much the distance from hand to brakes, as it is the shifting of weight and body position. On a road bike you pretty much stay in the same position, now going from tuck to brakes, you have to untuck, while moving your hands to pretty much the same position your elbows were just at...

Yeah, stupid poseur tri-geeks...:rolleyes:

im used to shoulder to shoulder touching durring a turn in a crit. but when i ride my TT bike, i cant turn for crap. so in the end, i prefer not to ride a tight pack with a guy on a tri bike. I still enjoy riding with them, just not so tight.

im used to shoulder to shoulder touching durring a turn in a crit. but when i ride my TT bike, i cant turn for crap. so in the end, i prefer not to ride a tight pack with a guy on a tri bike. I still enjoy riding with them, just not so tight.

And tri-geeks always thought it was an accident when they ride next to me in groups and my elbow graces their face... :p 'maybe thats why they never ride with me again?'

for me personally, it's not about the rider or the bike, it's what the rider does ON the bike...

i have plenty of friends that are triathletes, that use aerobars on road bikes, and my rides with them are DEFINITELY different than my club rides...

i don't know what it is, but most riders that use aerobars will drop to them when they don't need to, when riding in a pack. the only time a rider should be on an aerobar is when they're by themselves, which is what they're designed for, period. even if you're in the front of a line, i personally don't feel it's appropriate to drop to the aerobars, because you may not be able to get to your brakes fast enough. for that reason alone, you put yourself AND EVERYONE BEHIND YOU in danger, period...

i used to ride with aerobars, when i first started riding, and after i got more experienced i took them off. i learned that in a line, there's no advantage to using them, and like i said all i it does it put you and everyone around you in danger. there's certianly a place for them, but it's not in a bike line, it's for when you have to ride alone...

now, i like the drops the best. i also like having everything at my fingertips, for safety reasons, which is why i stopped using them...

like i said though, i have some friends that don't adhere to my feelings above, but like i also said my rides with them are definitely different than my club rides for that exact reason...

the solution is simple, just use the aerobars for tri's or time trials, and leave them alone on club rides or rides when you're asked to do so...

It's only partly the bike. The other part is what a tri-bike says about the rider. Triathletes don't ride in packs during their event and so their pack riding skills are suspect, even if the bike doesn't handle so badly.

For me it's that too, but mostly the lessened stablity and braking ability with hands not near the brake levers. That being said it's more fear than reality, because for all the times I've ridden with these guys thinking this there has never been an incident...

the only time a rider should be on an aerobar is when they're by themselves, which is what they're designed for, period. even if you're in the front of a line, i personally don't feel it's appropriate to drop to the aerobars, because you may not be able to get to your brakes fast enough. for that reason alone, you put yourself AND EVERYONE BEHIND YOU in danger, period...


Pfft.

Depends entirely on the rider. When it's championship (state/nats/masters) season around here a good fraction of the people at the local velodrome sprout geek bars and ride them in the groups on the track where plenty of people aren't on them. Some of them are preparing for Individual Pursuit, some for Team Pursuit. It's fine. A few who are focused on TT riding use them all the time and they're ok, too. People ride them in the front of the line, in the back, and sometimes in the middle. It doesn't seem to bother anybody. Then again, we don't have brakes, either...

Out on the road it depends on who it is-- there are plenty of people I know who'd I'd be comfortable in a line with on aero bars. In a random pack ride it's different because the group tends to shuffle around a lot, and people can make sudden unexpected moves, but in an organized paceline with skilled riders aerobars are fine.

Of COURSE it depends on the rider. Here's the problem: when I'm in a 30mph paceline behind some tri-guy I don't KNOW him or how good he is. So I have to worry if I'm going to wind up in a tri-guy pile-up.

It doesn't bother me until they hunker down on their aero bars in a fast paceline. In my opinion that shows a tremendous amount of oblivious disregard to the safety of fellow riders. Can't stand it. Other than that, no issues with triathletes. Hell, they LOVE to take stupid long pulls. Nothing wrong with that.

arro bars and most tri folks dont practice drafting at least the folks i know. when your 4 inches off a guys wheel you dont want a hesitation in bike handle skills, if the tri guy is in the arro bars thats all it takes. i have seen it happen many times.

Some of us were very experienced cyclists before we became Triathletes. Just because we have aerobars on a road bike or a full Tri setup, doesn't automaticly mean that we can't ride in a group.

Yes, we have three sports to practice, but we tend to be very hard core about them. Any decent triathlete can ride in a group.

Matrix2k1


And many have come from a running background, so what is your point?

The bottom line is that all of this can be diffused with some simple communication. When I ride with a new group I always tell them upfront how my group riding skills (I am a newb still). the situation then goes from unknown apprehension to an educational mood.

For the record I am starting to train for some tri's next year, but I don't have a tri bike.

-D

My point is that I developed pack riding skills before I put the bars on the bike. I am more than capable of handling myself in a close paceline. But....you wouldn't know that unless you knew me. The point is that you shouldn't assume that the person with aerobars is not able to ride safely in a group until you know they can't. Don't just lump us all into one group.

And, for the record, the only time you should be on the aerobars in a paceline is when you have the pull. Normal pack / club riding is an ongoing case by case decision. But there shouldn't be a blanket rule on no aerobars in group rides.

The problem is with the handlebars not the riders. If you just have clip ons on top of drop bars , no problem. If you have bullhorns or straight bars , big problem. Much more likely to get tangled up with drop bars and cause mayem in the pack.

If you have bullhorns or straight bars , big problem. Much more likely to get tangled up with drop bars and cause mayem in the pack.

You don't really believe that, do you?? No more likely than a brake lever "catching" another handlebar. I think your statement is an answer to a nonexistent problem.

Yes really belive it and have seen it happen. And have bumped drop bars numerous times with no entanglement.

No more likely than a brake lever "catching" another handlebar.

Mmm... while I've not ridden my bullhorned bike in a pack, I can say with absolute certainty that it catches things in my garage that my dropped-bar bike brushes past. It's only logical that trend would continue, especially in a close-knit pack situation.

a lot of us triathl33ts get out and do our own group rides, including pacelining, pelotons, crazy switchback hills, etc. etc. don't assume someone with aero bars MUST BE AERO OR WILL DIE. yeesh.

Of COURSE it depends on the rider. Here's the problem: when I'm in a 30mph paceline behind some tri-guy I don't KNOW him or how good he is. So I have to worry if I'm going to wind up in a tri-guy pile-up.

It doesn't bother me until they hunker down on their aero bars in a fast paceline. In my opinion that shows a tremendous amount of oblivious disregard to the safety of fellow riders. Can't stand it. Other than that, no issues with triathletes. Hell, they LOVE to take stupid long pulls. Nothing wrong with that.

If it's a paceline where I know everyone's ability it doesn't bother me at all. If it's a group ride or line where nobody knows each other then it's better not to use them. But in a ride like that I don't assume anybody has any particular abilities until I see them anyway-- plenty of people on drop bars can't ride safely in a line either.

And, for the record, the only time you should be on the aerobars in a paceline is when you have the pull.

TTT anybody?

From an earlier post, some people advised me that some biking groups don't enjoy having triathlon bikes as part of the riding crew. I can't believe that they have such a hard time turning that people worry for their safety. Is this true at all, and if so, what's the reason why tri-bikes don't do as well when riding in a group of road bikes?

I have ridden in events that people used their tri bikes and they did just fine if not better. I think if someone has a problem then they aren't worth riding along with.

plenty of people on drop bars can't ride safely in a line either.

Anyone else think this bears repeating? :D

Speaking of a trigeek who evolved into a roadie and back again, I will say that a typical trigeek has great pulling power, crappy accelleration, and no bike handling skills. Took me a long time to get used to the sudden accellerations, going red-line, and then recovering at speed. Took me even longer to get the skills and confidence to ride 30mph + right on somebody's wheel.

My point is that I developed pack riding skills before I put the bars on the bike. I am more than capable of handling myself in a close paceline. But....you wouldn't know that unless you knew me. The point is that you shouldn't assume that the person with aerobars is not able to ride safely in a group until you know they can't. Don't just lump us all into one group.

I didn't. Just like I didn't lump you into the group "All riders with dedicated Tri/TT bikes are better group riders"

And for the record, the OP wasn't talking about a roadie with clip on aerobars. He was talking about a dedicated TT bike.

The bottom line is that ALL of this can be avoided by simply introducing yourself at a new ride. Obviously this wouldn't be an issue when you are riding with people you know. Whenever I ride with some new people I let them know my skill level so they know what to expect. I also check theirs so I know I am not going to be in a ride that is too advanced etc.

-D

TTT are ... teams. Not a bunch of aquaintances and strangers. Definately no sleeveless jerseys.

Speaking of the sleeveless jerseys, is there a legit reason that the USCF bans them?

Speaking of the sleeveless jerseys, is there a legit reason that the USCF bans them?

Yeah, there all OCP and dont really ride, they just make rules about riding... Duh! :rolleyes:

But seriously iunno, would be interesting to know...

Of COURSE it depends on the rider. Here's the problem: when I'm in a 30mph paceline behind some tri-guy I don't KNOW him or how good he is. So I have to worry if I'm going to wind up in a tri-guy pile-up.

It doesn't bother me until they hunker down on their aero bars in a fast paceline. In my opinion that shows a tremendous amount of oblivious disregard to the safety of fellow riders. Can't stand it. Other than that, no issues with triathletes. Hell, they LOVE to take stupid long pulls. Nothing wrong with that.

BRAVO!

"GO MAN GO ... PULLLLLL !!" :eek:

If you're riding a pace line, you'll help the group effort more by riding smoothly, precisely, and shoulder to shoulder - rather than in the 'rhino' bars for personal aerodynamics. Save that for the TT when you're a Pro in Europe.

jw

Speaking of the sleeveless jerseys, is there a legit reason that the USCF bans them?

they know only triathletes have the guns to show...

It is like a cats and dogs thing. Just a whole different species.

And sometimes you pile attitude and skill level on top of that.

TTT are ... teams. Not a bunch of aquaintances and strangers. Definately no sleeveless jerseys.

Like I said above, I ride with a lot of people who I'm perfectly comfortable seeing in the TT bars in a line, even if we'll never ride a TTT or TP together. And I know plenty of people with drop bars who I don't like to be in a line with.

For the record, I don't do TTs (except the occasional TP) (or tri's--ick! running and swimming? No thanks.)-- I'm mostly a mass start trackie, but I see the sweeping generalizations everyone is making and I think they're silly.

FWIW, I saw a lot of lousy cyclists while watching the IM Wisconsin last month. I actually saw a guy climbing the toughest hill in his aerobars...STANDING :eek:

Lots of low cadence, people in aerobars going up hill at 10 mph, etc. A friend who was in the race said it was worse from her perspective.

No, not all triathletes are poor bike handlers (my friend is very capable and I've ridden thousands of miles with her), but many don't have the time in close pack rides.

Road bikes are made for riding in packs, TT bikes are not.

-murray

Pfft.

Depends entirely on the rider. When it's championship (state/nats/masters) season around here a good fraction of the people at the local velodrome sprout geek bars and ride them in the groups on the track where plenty of people aren't on them. Some of them are preparing for Individual Pursuit, some for Team Pursuit. It's fine. A few who are focused on TT riding use them all the time and they're ok, too. People ride them in the front of the line, in the back, and sometimes in the middle. It doesn't seem to bother anybody. Then again, we don't have brakes, either...

Yeah, the brakes thing makes it different. Also, pacelines are different than a pack. Pacelines are very organized and structured, smooth and predictable. Packs are dynamic, too much jockeying going on making for more abrupt movements.

for the record, someone I rode in a club ride with recently scared me as he got in his tri bars (literally those 1 piece triangle shaped things from the 80s). He actually seemed to do ok. I found out later that he did low end old folks triathlons for kicks. I had made a wrong assumption just because his bike of choice was a 15 year old Centurion Ironman with 32h 3x wheels and an old set of tri bars. We actually started talking after that (when he got out of the aero bars) since my first racing days were on a Centurion Ironman.