Commuting - Effect of war on bike commuter numbers

When I see a car with a "NO WAR FOR OIL" sign, I think that the message would be more effective on a bicycle. It reminds me of the "NO OFFSHORE OIL DRILLING" signs I see on cars.

Imagine if all those opposed to the war in Iraq quit driving their cars altogether. Even if they all decided to use a bike rather than a car for trips under 5 miles, it would be an astoundingly noticeable difference.

While I oppose a first strike on Iraq, and I agree that we should not go to war over oil, it seems that the powers that be are listening to our gluttonous oil consumption louder than our words.

To think that your own personal oil consumption is not going to be significant is exactly like saying your vote is insignificant.

Maybe the connection between oil and war, in combination with increased gas prices will increase bike commuting numbers. So far I don't see any significant change in driving habits.

Not entirely related... buuuutttttt...

There is this person who lives by me who drives a 90's Escort Wagon (not a terrible car on the environment), they have a bumper sticker that says: "Boycott Esso - The Worlds Largest Global Warming Producer". One day when I see them out I am going to ask them how boycotting Esso does ANYTHING to stop global warming... by boycotting Esso you've just made Shell the "The Worlds Largest Global Warming Producer." :rolleyes:

Originally posted by miraco
Maybe the connection between oil and war, in combination with increased gas prices will increase bike commuting numbers. So far I don't see any significant change in driving habits.

Because there hasn't been any...

I'm looking for the article right now, but there was a study very recently released (commissioned by AAA, I think) that found that Americans have not curtailed their driving habit at all since gas prices shot up; that there is no or little indication that Americans are driving less at all.

As I ride around town and over Highway 101 during rush hour, I don't see any noticible difference in the volume of cars at all. And from the looks of how SUVs and other gas-guzzlers are selling nowadays, the make up of the car crowd isn't changing either.

People can whine and complain all they want about gas prices. Their actions certainly speak louder: they're buying gas just as much.

Originally posted by KrisA
There is this person who lives by me who drives a 90's Escort Wagon (not a terrible car on the environment), they have a bumper sticker that says: "Boycott Esso - The Worlds Largest Global Warming Producer"....

Here's my favorite....

On my usual ride, I pass by a storage lot for motor vehicles. One vehicle has its rear-end facing the path, displaying a bumper sticker that has a drawing of industrial smokestacks belching black smoke. The caption reads, 'I'd rather be breathing!'

It's on the bumper of an RV. Not exactly a poster-vehicle for the environmentally conscious.

Environmental hypocrites abound. I especially like the "Keep Tahoe Blue" bumper sticker on the massive blue SUV I frequently see around town. Classic.

MTBE's will definately keep tahoe blue. Free of fish, and anything else alive.

We have to be realists here, it will take more than a war to sell bicycle commuting to the masses. It will take more than bleating about the problems caused by car overuse to sell bicycle commuting to the masses. And it will certainly take more than a few critical mass rides to sell biccyle commuting to the masses.

I find it incredible just how poorly cycling advocates 'sell' cycling. Think about it, we get advocates who spend most of their time talking of cycling as being 'dangerous'. We get advocates who demand "separate but equal" (i.e. separate) facilities from cars. Many of which go nowhere, are poorly maintained and thus, totally inappropriate for transportational cycling. We even had one lot around here who demanded that cyclists should be banned from a particular road!

In view of this, is it any wonder that people aren't taking up cycling in larger numbers? Even if someone was thinking of giving up the car to support a particular cause, they're going to see the crap that many of these groups go on with, and figure that cycling is just too dangerous and that they're being forced to drive against their will.

Why don't cycling advocates start trying to promote some of the benefits of cycling, rather than complaining about people 'being forced to drive' or 'cycling being made dangerous' and so on? Then we just might see a change in driving habits.

On a positive note, a co-worker asked me how long it took me to get from his house to work (he is just past my half way point). He was thinking of starting to bicycle because of gas prices. I thought that was pretty cool. He is waffling between a bicycle and a motorcycle.

I've said before how I don't really want to see a whole bunch of bike-commuters. I like the uniqueness of it all.

Anyway, if San Jose can't garner but a few bike-commuters, where will it ever be really successful?

Originally posted by Andy Dreisch
I've said before how I don't really want to see a whole bunch of bike-commuters. I like the uniqueness of it all.

Isn't it fun being a rebel? (Inky kisses her Macintosh)

But I do think the best thing for the country, the community, and the world would be to encourage bike commuting. When you think how many vital non-gasoline uses petroleum has, it's scary to think of it all being burned up in car engines.

Originally posted by Inkwolf
When you think how many vital non-gasoline uses petroleum has, it's scary to think of it all being burned up in car engines.

You mean F1 racing right? ;)

/me - loves his F1 and WRC racing!

Originally posted by KrisA
Not entirely related... buuuutttttt...

There is this person who lives by me who drives a 90's Escort Wagon (not a terrible car on the environment), they have a bumper sticker that says: "Boycott Esso - The Worlds Largest Global Warming Producer". One day when I see them out I am going to ask them how boycotting Esso does ANYTHING to stop global warming... by boycotting Esso you've just made Shell the "The Worlds Largest Global Warming Producer." :rolleyes:

SHell does a lot of investment in alternative fuels. Esso does nothing and in fact works against them.

if 10 percent of people rode bike to work the other 90 percent would complain that it slowed them down and was a hazard and would enact laws making cycling on any halfway used street very hard or impossible. therefore be thankfull and enjoy because the 90 percent would rather complain about gas prices than ride. most of them do not have the ambition, are not physically cable or are stuck travelling interstates. leave the bikes to us and pray they trade the expeditions for a hybrid someday when they wake up.

>>I find it incredible just how poorly cycling advocates 'sell' cycling. <<<

I just came from the Trek site and they do 'sell' commuting bicycles but only to Europe. The U.S. site only sells the 'sport' of cycling thus we have no commuter bikes made from the big manufacturers. Bianchi sells only one commuter with fenders so that goes to show you just how bad the demand is for people using bikes for transport.

I don't know if this is going to get better but I agree with the person who dosn't want more bike commuters out there. If there were more bikes at the train station where I park, the authorities might start charging space for my junk bike.

Originally posted by Dahon.Steve
>>I find it incredible just how poorly cycling advocates 'sell' cycling. <<<

I just came from the Trek site and they do 'sell' commuting bicycles but only to Europe. The U.S. site only sells the 'sport' of cycling thus we have no commuter bikes made from the big manufacturers. Bianchi sells only one commuter with fenders so that goes to show you just how bad the demand is for people using bikes for transport.

It's not just about the marketing one company does for one particular bike, it goes way beyond that. Re-read my earlier post (I'm too lazy to re-type it now) and you might get some idea of why there's such a poor demand for bikes as transport.


Originally posted by Dahon.Steve
I don't know if this is going to get better but I agree with the person who dosn't want more bike commuters out there. If there were more bikes at the train station where I park, the authorities might start charging space for my junk bike.

On the other hand, there might just be enough of us to be a political force, and hence eliminate some of the problems people have complained about in other threads.

I went to look at the Trek site, and couldn't find any bikes listed for "commuting". I found City/Path in the U.K. section, and Sport/Comfort. Which ones were you refering to? Are these bikes we would have to order special to get in the U.S.?

Originally posted by Dchiefransom
I went to look at the Trek site, and couldn't find any bikes listed for "commuting". I found City/Path in the U.K. section, and Sport/Comfort. Which ones were you refering to? Are these bikes we would have to order special to get in the U.S.?

Well, I think you could use almost any bike for commuting. Back when I had only one bike (MTB), I used it for commuting, mountain biking, the ocasional race, charity rides and general fun and recreational riding. Although it had a weird seatstay design in that there were lower rack eyelets but no upper ones (ended up bending the mounts so I could run them to the seatpost binder), I managed to put a rear rack and panniers on. I just took them off when I didn't want them.

Originally posted by KrisA
Not entirely related... buuuutttttt...

There is this person who lives by me who drives a 90's Escort Wagon (not a terrible car on the environment), they have a bumper sticker that says: "Boycott Esso - The Worlds Largest Global Warming Producer". One day when I see them out I am going to ask them how boycotting Esso does ANYTHING to stop global warming... by boycotting Esso you've just made Shell the "The Worlds Largest Global Warming Producer." :rolleyes:

Ironic since it is the CARS that burn the gasoline that contribute more to global warming than those who produce the fuel. :rolleyes:

Originally posted by Andy Dreisch
Environmental hypocrites abound. I especially like the "Keep Tahoe Blue" bumper sticker on the massive blue SUV I frequently see around town. Classic.

I have one of those stickers, its on my Nalgene bottle. My favorite is the "Keep Tahoe Green" sticker though, with the graphic of the lake replaced with... well, you can figure it out.

Cycles are not a fashion statment.........

Cars are!!!! :mad:

Originally posted by willic
Cycles are not a fashion statment.........

Cars are!!!! :mad:

I don't know... I think I look pretty damn cool on my bike! :D

Also for most people cars are just transportation... hence all the minivans, Camrys, Accords, Tauri, etc.

Originally posted by RainmanP
Ironic since it is the CARS that burn the gasoline that contribute more to global warming than those who produce the fuel. :rolleyes:

Ironically, you're comparison is off.

Think of the drug user and drug dealer relationship: they are both co dependent. With out one, there is the other. What the sticker probably hoped to do was to single out one to shut down the other.

There'd be no demand if there was no product. And vice versa, there'd be no product if there was no demand. Blame the SUV, blame the truck, blame the railroad.. Really, we need to blame our selves.

Originally posted by willic
Cycles are not a fashion statment.........

Cars are!!!! :mad:

But how many car drivers try to match thier clothes with ther cars? :D

And let's not go into the fact that we can get tires that match the color of our bikes.. brand name clothing to match the brand of our bikes..

Loyalty, fashion.. same difference really!

I seen this guy around town with a neon green PT Cruiser and he wears a suit the same color....

Originally posted by Travler
But how many car drivers try to match thier clothes with ther cars? :D

And let's not go into the fact that we can get tires that match the color of our bikes.. brand name clothing to match the brand of our bikes..

Loyalty, fashion.. same difference really!

My commute bike has yellow sidewall tire on the front and a red sidewall tire on the back. Just a poser trying to look cool like the local messengers. Their bikes don't match either.

As to the topic of this thread: Who knows? My impression is that most car commuters regard their gas and parking costs as neccessary costs, like food and housing. When gas hits $3.00/gal., they'll complain loudly but I doubt there'll be many folks joining us bike commuters.

Hello all!

I just joined the forums, and I can honestly say I started bike commuting primarily because of gas prices. When it costs $40 a week to fill up my car, things have got to change. And since I love my rather uncommon little Audi Quattro, I decided to buy a bike. Now instead of paying nearly $160 a month for fuel, I pay only about $40 or so. All because I bought my little commuter bike!

I ride to work, to the bank, market, and the other places around town. Sometimes I notice I get there faster than if I drove! And with my panniers and trunk bag, I can carry most stuff I'd normally buy. The only problem is me getting tired, but that's changing the more I ride. But you all know all this.

So how attached am I to my internal combustion vehicle? Well, I use to auto-x and rallye race all the time. I use 93 octane religiously. I once ripped out the stereo equipment of my car to save weight. I won't touch a car with an automatic tranmission. And I'd love to pop Ralph Nader in the lip. ;)

But with that said, I've always gone out of my way to look out for and defend anyone on two wheels on the road with me. And I hate SUV's with a passion. Especially the luxury versions. Ugh! Talk about an oxy-moron. But I digress.

So in short: yes, some people have started commuting by bike because of fuel prices. I'm not giving up my car, but I am cutting back on driving and enjoying my moring commute by pedal.

Oh, and my helmet, jersey, and gloves match my bike's color. ;)

Frankly, I don't see most people changing their behavior re: driving, short of just a flat-out supply shortage of gas.

Back in the late '70s gas crunch, gas was simply unavailable. Here in CA, we had the odd/even thing going on and you just simply could not buy fuel at all on certain days. That's been the only time in my life (here in Silicon Valley) that I can remember people actually changing their driving behavior and it was only because they had to. At times, they simply had no other choice. When your car was out of day and you were even but the day odd, you walked or cycled or took the bus to work. You didn't have a choice.

Right now, gasoline is readily available. It certainly isn't at a price that most people are used to, but it is still as available as it has been. From what I've read/seen, there's been no significant change in people's driving habits. All whining, but no real change.

Hundreds of thousands of people die prematurely every year in this country from lifestyle choices that could be ameliorated by cycling or even walking. Just cycling or walking to the corner drugstore for forgotten sundries would do wonders for people's health. Just walking 30 minutes three times a week instead of plopping down on the couch after dinner to (mindlessly) watch TV.

This isn't news to most people. Most people are painfully aware that their lifestyle is killing them and what the solutions are to it. Many people are so aware of these solutions, they become defensive when it's broached with them. Less driving = longer and better life.

People aren't listening and they aren't changing. When faced with such facts about premature morbidity and how such a simple solution can significantly reduce the risk of that morbidity, people STILL won't just walk even 20 minutes twice a week. Few people are going to decrease their driving when a slightly more open pocketbook makes the problem go away.... to the extent people see driving as a problem to begin with.

And that's the disconnect: people simply don't see things like our gluttonous use of petroleum, our malnutrition (not undernutrition), and our sedentary lifestyle being connected with the quite clear decrease in the quality of our health and consequent premature morbidity. If they won't change their driving habits to save their lives, they aren't going to just because it lightens their wallets a little.

That doesn't mean that people shouldn't talk about these things or try to convince others that driving so much is just simply a bad thing. It's bad for our health, it's bad for our environment, it's bad for the world we're leaving our children and their children and we all have an obligation to not only talk about these things but to live lives that truly reflect our concern. But more and more I'm being convinced that we as a society are just going to have to figure these things out the hard way.... and have our legacy reflect our obstinance.

So I guess my choice to commute by bicycle was all for naught? All my enthuseism that I've shown to my friends and co-workers about bike ownership is wasted? My decision to treat my bicycle as a vehicle instead of either a piece of exercise equipment or an X-Games toy was ill-concieved?

I may be new to this forum, and to cycling in general, but I have noticed a trend that is very disturbing to me. It's this pervasive exclusivity. I've seen it from day one of new bike ownership. I had to drive to the bicycle shop on my lunch break to look at bikes. I spent 2 hours looking over bikes and test riding them. To the chagrin of the employees and all the hardcore cyclists there, I went with a last years' model, clearance-priced Fuji hybrid. They couldn't believe I'd spend less than $200 on a bike, when their conventional wisdom tells them that beginners should pay AT LEAST $300-$500 on their first bike. At work the other bike commuters rib me for wanting to add so much stuff on my bike, like fenders and a full chain cover. And while riding to work and around town I get sneers from packs of wiry guys wearing gaudy jerseys of unpronouncable European company sponsers on $1200 road bikes. (This, by the way, happened in a span of less of than 48 hours of receiving my bike.)

So far I haven't been much impressed with the reception I've encountered from the bicycling community. But I've soldiered on, telling people how wonderful it is to just leave my car parked and get out and ride! To get up a little earlier in the morning to commute the couple of miles to work. To see things you don't normally see when you zip pass at 50+ miles per hour in your car. And how much more fit I feel just after only a few weeks of riding into work. I've cut a whole 5 minutes off my ride since I've started: that's a certain point of pride with me.

But on the same token I don't villify auto ownership. I'm not going to ride 16 miles on a weeknight through wild canyons to meet my friends at the coffeehouse we all hang out at, for instance. Neither am I going to take the time to figure out how to move a piece of furniture from one end of town to the other with just my bike. Like it or not, cars have become a vital tool in today's world. And although I hate the way the automakers have dragged their feet on upgrading from their industrial-age mentality of internal combustion technology, I marvel at the machinery that rolls on our streets. Cars do have their place and their time. I'm just advocating a reduction in that time and giving an alternative.

No one wants to quit anything cold turkey. And in many cases, doing so could cause more damage than help. I know my limits at the moment. That's why I bought an inexpensive hybrid. For me to buy a full-suspension ATB or a featherweight velo right now would be stupid. If for some reason I didn't like cycling, I could cut the losses of my initial investment and not feel too bad. But if I really got into cycling, well, an initial grand total investment of $300 or so isn't too bad. I could save up some more dough over time and get something higher quality. (I'm already eyeing a Haro V2)

So to make this whole long-winded tirade of mine short: don't focus on the negativity so much if there are actually people out there trying there damndest to make a difference. And please try to be patient with those of us that are well intentioned. Making fun of the guy on the 50lb Wal-Mart beach cruiser is no way to win over converts. Trust me on this one. It's so easy to fall into the "Us vs. Them" mentality.

I know I'm already fighting an uphill battle, but I'm also trying to single-handedly convince people that European city bikes are cool, too. So please give me a blessing before you curse me, ok? ;)

Originally posted by Beats Walking
So to make this whole long-winded tirade of mine short: don't focus on the negativity so much if there are actually people out there trying there damndest to make a difference. And please try to be patient with those of us that are well intentioned. Making fun of the guy on the 50lb Wal-Mart beach cruiser is no way to win over converts.

I don't think that people (here, at least) are focused so much on 'the negativity' of anything. I'm not sure what you mean. I'm not the most optimistic about how our society views alternative modes of transportation. But that isn't anywhere near the same as being negative about those alternative modes or the people who use them. It's just disappointing that people generally don't get out of their cars more.

In the latter part of what's quoted above, I'm not sure that the people you're talking about aren't just flat out jerks. The bicycling world is no different from any other group of people with a similar interest: there are always going to be some dildos in the mix no matter what you do (as difficult as it might be to believe, even Buddhist monks have a certain percentage of them who are just not very nice or not very pleasant to be around). You can make book on that.

I think a key is that such churlish people should be ignored. I don't particularly care for bike 'snobs' who will make fun of other cyclists' garb or gear. But I give them exactly what they deserve: nothing except maybe my pity. They're the people they have to live with, which sometimes is quite a punishment as it is.

Originally posted by miraco
To think that your own personal oil consumption is not going to be significant is exactly like saying your vote is insignificant.

Maybe the connection between oil and war, in combination with increased gas prices will increase bike commuting numbers. So far I don't see any significant change in driving habits.
I choose to express my vote with my lifestyle, rather than a bumper sticker. It takes away people's excuses.

WWII had an effect on people's consumption. So did many other wars of the past. Some things were in short supply.

In the long run, cost will determine how people commute. If driving becomes too expensive, alternatives will become more and more appealing.

Right on, Pete. It all boils down to cost-benefit. And costs (and benefits) go beyond easily quantifable things like gas and insurance and extend to intangibles like luxury, safety, convenience, etc.

Gas price rises is only a small part of the overall cost-benefit analysis.