Advocacy & Safety - Local advocacy group meetings and you

Does your area have a local advocacy group?
Do you go the meetings?
Are you a member? Regular or board?
How often are your meetings?
How often do you go?
How far is the meeting location from your home? Work?
What form of transport do you usually use to get there? If not bike, why?
How often do you go by bike, if ever?
About how many people show up to a typical meeting?
About how many of them (number/percent) arrive by bike?
What kind of cyclist are you primarily... order these by priority: commuter, family-recreational, sport-recreational, racing, utilitarian.
About what percent of the time at typical meetings (average over a year) is spent on fhe following topics:


General road issues (not specific to bike-specific facilities)
Bike specific facilities
Bike Ed
Planning reviews
b.s.
Other

There are many bike advocacy groups around here. I don't go to any meetings. I suspect I'll either lose my cool and blow up or get depressed beyond description.

So I just ride...

Does your area have a local advocacy group?

yes

Do you go the meetings?

Went to two... didn't see room for input from non-board members

Are you a member? Regular or board?

Yes, regular

How often are your meetings?

Monthly

How often do you go?

have gone twice, have also represented cyclists at public city meetings... outside of "advocacy meetings."

How far is the meeting location from your home? Work?

Almost half way... about 5 miles from either.

What form of transport do you usually use to get there? If not bike, why?

Have biked both times.

How often do you go by bike, if ever?

every time (aren't statistics cool)

About how many people show up to a typical meeting?

6-10

About how many of them (number/percent) arrive by bike?

Kerry, me, maybe Serge.

What kind of cyclist are you primarily... order these by priority: commuter, family-recreational, sport-recreational, racing, utilitarian.

Huh? How about sport-recreational, commuter, utilitarian.

About what percent of the time at typical meetings (average over a year) is spent on fhe following topics:

* General road issues (not specific to bike-specific facilities)
* Bike specific facilities
* Bike Ed
* Planning reviews
* b.s.
* Other

Not sure, never gauged it. Road issues and planning reviews seemed to be the key issues, as well as membership... the latter being somewhat a dismal area response, considering all the bike shops and therefore potential cyclists in the area... however, I happen to know that the local water color society has a larger membership, bigger budget, and bigger meetings... My wife is a member of that group. :rolleyes:

Does your area have a local advocacy group?
There are various Bicycle and Pedestrian Advisory Groups or Committees that the government has put in place that I go to. But technically as far as advocacy groups goes they do not have regular meetings.

Do you go the meetings?
I go to City, Regional and State BPAC’s

Are you a member? Regular or board?
City, Board; Regional, regular; State, Regular

How often are your meetings?
City, Monthly; Regional & State Bi-monthly

How often do you go?
Fairly regularly

How far is the meeting location from your home? Work?
City, 7mi; Regional, 12 miles; State, 20mi (the 9AM start is a pain.)

What form of transport do you usually use to get there? If not bike, why?
Usually by bike, during the summer I arrange bike caravans to the meetings and we pick up people as we meander through the city, they are a blast.

How often do you go by bike, if ever?
Over 95% of the time.

About how many people show up to a typical meeting?
City, 7; Regional, 9; State, ~20

About how many of them (number/percent) arrive by bike?
The City is the only one where we have had 100% arrival by bike but usually it is closer to 50%. Regional, 3; State, 1-2.

What kind of cyclist are you primarily... order these by priority: commuter, family-recreational, sport-recreational, racing, utilitarian.
Everything but racing (though I used to do that when I was a teenager.) My priority is I just look for excuses to ride so whatever works to get me out on my bike is cool.

About what percent of the time at typical meetings (average over a year) is spent on fhe following topics:
• General road issues (not specific to bike-specific facilities)
0%

• Bike specific facilities
20%

• Bike Ed
City 10%, Regional we just started something, State when the topic comes up it falls flat.

• Planning reviews
50% mostly about plans where bike & peds are not accommodated.

• b.s.
Regional, 10% the others next to 0.

• Other
The City is working on a bike master plan, Regional it’s mostly jurisdiction progress reports and the state covers a variety of topics.

While I won't help you write your book, I will respond by saying thank you. This is a subject that needs to be broached here. Too many people just bich about this and that, but are not willing to actually do anything. I know it's hard, given that most people are just trying to live day to day, but these are questions that all of us should ask ourselves....what am I doing to help---posting here doesn't really count--it's a start, but there has to be a follow-up. What can each of us do?

Does your area have a local advocacy group?

...No idea, I never thought to look... but there is something called Bicycle Solutions that offers education & advice (in Palo Alto, not sure about anything in Oxford, UK)

Do you go the meetings?

..No

Are you a member? Regular or board?

..No
How often are your meetings?

...Don't know

How often do you go?

... I don't attend
How far is the meeting location from your home? Work?

...approx 10 miles
What form of transport do you usually use to get there? If not bike, why?

...N/A
How often do you go by bike, if ever?

..N/A
About how many people show up to a typical meeting?

Don't know

About how many of them (number/percent) arrive by bike?

Don't know

What kind of cyclist are you primarily... order these by priority: commuter, family-recreational, sport-recreational, racing, utilitarian.

Commuter & sport-rec

About what percent of the time at typical meetings (average over a year) is spent on fhe following topics:

..Bicycle Solutions has a website here: http://www.bicyclesolutions.com/classes_cyclist.html


As an "off the cuff" comment, I would be very unlikely to attend bike advocacy or education meetings. There is very little to interest me in this line. When the time comes, I may encourage my son to take lessons, but would probably teach him myself, the skills I have learned over the years.

Cheers,

Ed

There was a local bike planning meeting last month in Seattle where over a half thousand bicyclists came in the dark of evening on a rainy night to add input on how and where to improve bicycling facilities in the Seattle area.

It looked like well over %50 came by bike; i didn't see any census ###s on that, but the block was filled with parked bikes overflowing the racks and onto every railing and streetsign nearby.

Does your area have a local advocacy group?
Yes, the Siouxland Trails Foundation.

Do you go the meetings?
Yes.

Are you a member? Regular or board?
Yes, regular & Chairman of Sub-Committee's as they are needed for what ever projects are being worked on, but do not sit on the board.

How often are your meetings?
Advisory team meetings are once a month starting in November going through April or May. Ride Sub-Committee meetings are once a month starting in Jan. going through May. Other sub-committees sometimes only meet once, other times the only contact is via email or telephone.

How often do you go?
To every advisorty team meeting unless I am working on the Saturday. I attend every ride sub committee meetings. Other sub-committees as needed.

How far is the meeting location from your home? Work?
Advisory Team are about 3 miles from my home, 11 miles from work. Ride sub-committee are about 2 miles from home, 12 miles from work.

What form of transport do you usually use to get there? If not bike, why?
Car or bike. If not bike it is because of bad weather or too cold.

How often do you go by bike, if ever?
Both Advisory Team & ride sub-committee meetings at least ride to the meetings in March April & May.

About how many people show up to a typical meeting?
Advisory Team - anywhere from 10 to 20 people. Ride sub-committee - anywhere from 5 to 10 people.

About how many of them (number/percent) arrive by bike?
Both - 1 to 3.

What kind of cyclist are you primarily... order these by priority: commuter, family-recreational, sport-recreational, racing, utilitarian.
Sport recreational, commuter, utilitarian.

About what percent of the time at typical meetings (average over a year) is spent on fhe following topics:

[QUOTE=Helmet Head]
General road issues (not specific to bike-specific facilities)
Advisory Team issue only - 24%

Bike specific facilities
Advisory Team issue only - 50%

Bike Ed.
Advisory Team issue only - 1% Only when there are upcoming Bike Ed. classes that members wuold like to attend.

Planning reviews.
Advisory Team issue only- 24%

b.s.
1%

*] Other
Both - 0%

As you and GeneC know, HH, I belong to a superb advocacy group. However, the meetings are 25 mi / 40km from my office and almost as far from my home. I am more effective as a rank-and-file dues-paying member who regularly writes emails to city traffic engineering departments and letters to the local newspaper editors.



/*What kind of cyclist are you primarily... order these by priority: commuter, family-recreational, sport-recreational, racing, utilitarian.*/

Utilitarian, commuter, sport-recreational

Does your area have a local advocacy group?

Yes.
Do you go the meetings?

I have attended 2 of their quarterly evening meetings and one picnic.
Are you a member? Regular or board?

Regular.
How often are your meetings?

Once a month.
How often do you go?

Once a quarter or less.
How far is the meeting location from your home? Work?

The regular meeting is about 6 miles from my office, but they have it at noon so it's hard for me to attend. The quarterly meetings are held at a different restaurant each time at dinner time, much farther away but easier to get to on time.
What form of transport do you usually use to get there? If not bike, why?

Bike. Seems sacrilegious not to.
About how many people show up to a typical meeting?

I don't know how many attend the regular meetings, but the quarterly ones have about 30 or 40.
About how many of them (number/percent) arrive by bike?

The vast majority.
What kind of cyclist are you primarily... order these by priority:

It's all the same to me: commuter/utilitarian/recreational. What I am not is racing or mountain biker.
About what percent of the time at typical meetings (average over a year) is spent on fhe following topics:

* General road issues (not specific to bike-specific facilities)
* Bike specific facilities
* Bike Ed
* Planning reviews
* b.s.
* Other

They always have an agenda and they go quite quickly through it (not a lot of bs, in other words). Things on the agenda typically include:
- Up-coming ballot measures or election issues,
- general road issues that affect cycling (road maintenance on the bike path, road or bike path work at UCSB, road striping, road construction, etc), the new bike station they are building, new bike paths they are building, etc
- discussion of possible or actual social programs involving bikes such as build-a-bike programs, giving away lights, etc,
- bike kitchens, bike ovens, etc,
- discussion of recent and future Cyclesmart classes,
- discussion of various city council meetings where there may be a possibility to effect or prevent some change to bike accessibility,
- discussion of events such as picnics, bike races, bike tours, bike rides, critical mass, or whatever is coming up whether it be professional or open to everyone,
- open discussion of whatever,
- and we usually have some cross-pollination with some members belonging to other groups so we get input from multiple sides of the issues, as well as heads-up when something is coming up that the bicycle coalition needs to be a part of.

There are many bike advocacy groups around here. I don't go to any meetings. I suspect I'll either lose my cool and blow up or get depressed beyond description.

So I just ride...
Unfortunately, most vehicular cyclists have similar attitudes to you, and so our point of view is generally underrepresented in these groups and meetings.

It takes very few to bring attention and resources to cyclist education, for example, but it does take a few...

It also couldn't hurt to have someone at these meetings throw out questions like, "why would we support or advocate for a bike lane on a 25 mph street, or on a street with commercial driveways every 100 feet?"

...and there should be more cyclists throwing out questions like "why don't we have more bike lanes on 45 MPH arterials that everyone from 8 to 80 can ride in? How come more streets in our city aren't being redesigned to be more bike and pedestrian friendly?"

...and there should be more cyclists throwing out questions like "why don't we have more bike lanes on 45 MPH arterials that everyone from 8 to 80 can ride in? How come more streets in our city aren't being redesigned to be more bike and pedestrian friendly?"
Putting a bike lane on a road to give unskilled cyclists a false sense of security on streets they are not ready to be riding on is not cyclist advocacy.

actually. helmet head, a lot of bike advocacy IS about accomodations on the roads, AND bike lanes are designed for riders of all abilities, skilled as well as unskilled.

you still haven't learned how to ride on accomdated roadway, eh? they probably have some class connections at your advocacy meetings....

bike lanes are designed for riders of all abilities, skilled as well as unskilled.


Let's back up a second.

On a 45 mph arterial without bike lanes, what characteristics in the design makes it unsuitable for unskilled cyclists?

And how does adding a bike lanes affect those design characteristics such that the road does become suitable for unskilled cyclists?

Let's back up a second.

On a 45 mph arterial without bike lanes, what characteristics in the design makes it unsuitable for unskilled cyclists?

And how does adding a bike lanes affect those design characteristics such that the road does become suitable for unskilled cyclists?

Tend to agree with HH here... a 45MPH road is no place for "unskilled" anything, even pedestrians in crosswalks.

WHAT in the heck are you complaining about again, helmet head? Is this another of your anti bike lane spiels?

Advocacy groups talk about accomodations, and a lot of streets signed at 45MPH become more 'bicycle friendly' with proper accomodations for the benefit of both skilled and not so skilled bicyclists.

is this just another thinly veiled anti-facilities thread?

All advocacy meetings I've been to involve planning, facilities and advocacy ABOUT bike lanes, NOT against them.

Unfortunately, most vehicular cyclists have similar attitudes to you, and so our point of view is generally underrepresented in these groups and meetings. Agreed. But I prefer to avoid discussing controversial issues because I have a defeatist attitude and a thin skin. These are not personality traits to be particularly proud about, but they are there and while I try to gradually change them, they are still there.

I also sort of feel my presence is not really necessary because there more outspoken people than I who hold similar views and who do attend such meetings. Toronto doesn't have too bad a bike scene. The director of municipal Transportation Planning rides a bike to work sometimes - and to the best of my knowledge he is a vehicular cyclist. We have a cycling division in the transportation planning department, and I've been in close contact with people who work there - they believe all the right things.

However, the main reason I don't go is that I don't see how I can contribute. What I believe is truly meaningful and good for cycling advocacy is education, of both cyclists and motorists. Yet I have not the slightest idea how to reeducate vast hordes of people who don't want to be educated. It's just not something a little advocacy group can hope to accomplish.

Anything else is not crucial to me. I don't really care if there is a bike lane to be installed on a 20 mph street, or if there are going to be bike racks on buses. I neither support nor object to these initiatives; they are more or less irrelevant. However, it's clear to me that most cyclists really love bike lanes - and the advocacy groups will more or less do what the majority of cyclists wants. Trying to fight that is pretty pointless, in my humble... democracy rules. ;)

As far as education is concerned, I teach CAN-BIKE courses (equivalent of LAB in the U.S. I suppose). They help individual cyclists but they are doing nothing to change the general attitude of the average road user. Should I advocate for more such courses? But even if they double, triple or increase the number of courses offered by a factor of 10, it's still going to do ZILCH as far as the general public is concerned.

WHAT in the heck are you complaining about again, helmet head? Is this another of your anti bike lane spiels?

Advocacy groups talk about accomodations, and a lot of streets signed at 45MPH become more 'bicycle friendly' with proper accomodations for the benefit of both skilled and not so skilled bicyclists.

is this just another thinly veiled anti-facilities thread?

All advocacy meetings I've been to involve planning, facilities and advocacy ABOUT bike lanes, NOT against them.
The artful dodger is at it again... Ignoring my questions and posing his own. I'll answer yours after you answer mine.

On a 45 mph arterial without bike lanes, what characteristics in the design makes it unsuitable for unskilled cyclists?

And how does adding a bike lane affect those design characteristics such that the road does become suitable for unskilled cyclists?

I know you hate to think, Bek, but give it a shot, will you?

As far as education is concerned, I teach CAN-BIKE courses ...
Ohh!!!! Well that explains much. :beer:

I've got a BETTER idea, Head. Let's talk about advocacy meetings.

If you can't back up your assertions by answering follow-up questions, Bek, then don't make them in the first place.

You said, in this thread, in the context of discussing 45 mph arterials, bike lanes are designed for riders of all abilities, skilled as well as unskilled. .

Oh yeah? Then please answer the follow-up questions:


On a 45 mph arterial without bike lanes, what characteristics in the design makes it unsuitable for unskilled cyclists?
And how does adding a bike lane affect those design characteristics such that the road does become suitable for unskilled cyclists?

head. lets try to stay on topic.

why do advocacy meetings where i live get attended by hundreds of people? Why are there so many bicyclists in Seattle? Why do so many bicyclists at the advocacy meeting all talk about improving facilities?

why do advocacy meetings where i live get attended by hundreds of people? Why are there so many bicyclists in Seattle? Why do so many bicyclists at the advocacy meeting all talk about improving facilities?
Alex, I'll take Lemmings Who Don't Know Better for $100.

i guess clueless is your strong suit, helmet head.

Alex, I'll take Lemmings Who Don't Know Better for $100.

Alright let's see... Mr Head; Smaller towns in the northwest tend to have more attendance at their advocacy meetings than larger towns further south in the US where the weather is excellent for cycling.

Remember the answer must be in a question format.

Tick, tock, tick, tock...

Even smallish-sized Santa Barbara probably has more attendees than San Diego, and our weather is almost the same (a tad cooler in the evenings and a lot more fog).

Seriously, I'd rather do what they do in successful biking cities than do what they do in unsuccessful cities.

Alright let's see... Mr Head; Smaller towns in the northwest tend to have more attendance at their advocacy meetings than larger towns further south in the US where the weather is excellent for cycling.

Remember the answer must be in a question format.

Tick, tock, tick, tock...
What is the effect of physically challenging cycling terrain and long average trip distances on cycling and cycling advocacy interest levels in various areas?

What is the effect of challenging cycling terrain and long average trip distances on cycling and cycling advocacy interest in various areas?

Ding! Judges, Judges???

Speaking of long average trip distances, here, by the way, is how you get from downtown San Diego to the location of the coalition meeting. Note that it's 12 miles by freeway, one way. About a 15 minute drive. You'd have to be fast and lucky to do it by bike on surface streets with all the hills, stop signs and traffic signal you'd encounter along the way. That's a round-trip of 30 minutes travel time by car, vs. at least two hours by bike, most likely more. Most people don't have that kind of extra time.

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=Broadway+and+Front+Street,+San+Diego,+CA+to+Governor+Drive+at+Stadium+St,+San+Diego,+CA&ie=UTF8&z=12&om=1

Speaking of long average trip distances, here, by the way, is how you get from downtown San Diego to the location of the coalition meeting. Note that it's 12 miles by freeway, one way. About a 15 minute drive. You'd have to be fast and lucky to do it by bike on surface streets with all the hills, stop signs and traffic signal you'd encounter along the way. That's a round-trip of 30 minutes travel time by car, vs. at least two hours by bike, most likely more. Most people don't have that kind of extra time.

WOW.11.4 miles. NO WONDER no one wants to bike in San diego(irony). Hmm. lots of riders here, lots of facitities and the desire among most citizenry is a more ped and bike friendly city. Seattle has hills too, ya know.

Speaking of long average trip distances, here, by the way, is how you get from downtown San Diego to the location of the coalition meeting. Note that it's 12 miles by freeway, one way. About a 15 minute drive. You'd have to be fast and lucky to do it by bike on surface streets with all the hills, stop signs and traffic signal you'd encounter along the way. That's a round-trip of 30 minutes travel time by car, vs. at least two hours by bike, most likely more. Most people don't have that kind of extra time.

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=Broadway+and+Front+Street,+San+Diego,+CA+to+Governor+Drive+at+Stadium+St,+San+Diego,+CA&ie=UTF8&z=12&om=1


Not that I mind the location, but why DO they have the meetings there? I mean it works out well for me and Kerry, and maybe you, but the others???

Oh I knew the cycling route well. For a year I lived downtown and worked in Kearny Mesa... I went up 5th to Washington, to Ft Stockton, thru Old Town to Morena to Linda Vista Road to Genesee. Yeah, at least an hour. Moved to LG after that.

WOW.11.4 miles. NO WONDER no one wants to bike in San diego(irony). Hmm. lots of riders here, lots of facitities and the desire among most citizenry is a more ped and bike friendly city.

It's not the distances, it's the hills that kill you, not even the beach areas are flat.

Although admittedly back in my single car free days, I would ride my SS cruiser to the PB from North Park and not whine a bit. These days I appreciate my 21 gears.

why do advocacy meetings where i live get attended by hundreds of people? Why are there so many bicyclists in Seattle? Why do so many bicyclists at the advocacy meeting all talk about improving facilities?

Bek, I believe from other threads that you work in a bike shop, correct? If so, how often do you get a customer who comes in asking for a certain style of bike because they have such and such idea of the kind of riding that they want to do and that bike looks like the right one to them? How often is their bike choice so far from what is right for their intended usage? How often do you let them buy the bike they think is best without trying to persuade them into a better choice that actually fits their needs rather than just looks right to them at first sight? Assuming you have any kind of good business sense, I'm sure work with them to determine their real needs and show them why a different bike is better.

The saying that the customer is always right is very true. They always know what they want. The problem is that they don't always know how to get what they want. This is why we have sales people to tell them what to buy, engineers to design what they really need, and doctors to treat what is really causing their pain.

When novice cyclists see bike lanes, they see them as the answer to their need for safe and easy access to all areas of their city by bicycle using the existing roadways. What they don't realize is that their needs are much better served by learning how to ride with traffic. Once the real need (how to safely and easily cycle on exisiting roadways) has been filled, there's no use for bike lanes. Do you think it's good cycling advocacy to just give cyclists what they think they need or to give them what they are actually asking for?

Sorry but I lived in San Diego and your hills are not a big deal. I used to ride up and down Texas Street and I was (and still am) a fat girl.

We have hills in Santa Barbara, too, and some people will ride more than 11.4 miles to get to the meetings. I know that I ride more than that to get to the evening meetings when I go.

Your biking sucks in San Diego because your bike advocacy sucks and you have let the developers run amok.

Sorry but I lived in San Diego and your hills are not a big deal. I used to ride up and down Texas Street and I was (and still am) a fat girl.

We have hills in Santa Barbara, too, and some people will ride more than 11.4 miles to get to the meetings. I know that I ride more than that to get to the evening meetings when I go.

Your biking sucks in San Diego because your bike advocacy sucks and you have let the developers run amok.
The relevant questions are:

How LONG (in time) does it take to get to your meetings, round-trip by bike? And how long by car?

Like I said, when the differences are 30 minutes vs. 2+ hours, the time starts getting very significant.

Not that I mind the location, but why DO they have the meetings there? I mean it works out well for me and Kerry, and maybe you, but the others???
We have people from up and down the coast, as far as north as Carlsbad and as far south as Chula Vista or somewhere down there. So UC works out to be fairly central.

That 2-3 hour route from downtown by bike (versus 30 minutes by car) is probably average. Those of us who live closer do bike, at least sometimes.

Also many of the members are "pure recreational" or "pure sport recreational", and, so don't cycle for commuting or utilitarian purposes, particularly not at night.

Are you making excuses why bike 'advocates' you know DON'T bike in San Diego, Head?

We bike in Seattle, hills, rain, cold, dark and gloom.

Isn't this thread suppossed to be about advocacy groups more than your anti-bike lane spiel, head?

How long does it take to bike across Seattle?
In particular, how long does it take to bike across the area served by those who attend your meetings?

i think bicyclists like VRkelley in here commutes over 25 miles a day on her bike; the city is a large, suburban ringed metropolis. I know a lot of riders that put in 20+ mile commutes. I do 12 to 15 miles daily if i don't do anything major before or after work.

Last time i saw a report, I believe the Seattle (car) commute time spent in traffic jams is worse than San Diego and more on par with New York City.

Its interesting this thread has become some kind of pathetic justification for the lack of actual bicycling among 'advocates' in San Diego.

Seattle, a rainy night in September, over a half thousand bicyclists at a meeting. and well over half biked there....

tonight (did you ride in the dark yet this week, helemet head?) i counted about 15 riders on my ride home tonight (all using blinkies and using roadway lanes and bike lanes as appropriate). how many did you see, head? I climbed a few hills, too.


If you want to know what prevents novice bicyclists from riding 45 MPH arterials, why don't you drive to your dentist and ask him, Head, like you did the last time you drove in and talked to your dentist about riding a short commute to work?

yeah, and all this goes in the face of worldwide acceptance that accomodations on the roads and urban design for liveable communities increases safety, numbers, and acceptance of bicyclists in the transportation grid.

i believe this is what advocates discuss at meetings, making their communities more bicycle friendly.

maybe not among the AAA/SDBA bike advocates or whatever group this 'elite' group of advocates you guys belong to down there.

i think up here in the Northwest we're more 'populist' than 'elitist' in our biking advocacy than you guys down in sunny california...

Beck, I didn't ask how far in miles anyone rode, I asked how long it in time.
A 20 mile commute can be done in about a little over an hour if it's mostly flat. That's not too bad.
The same hour is likely to get you only 12 miles along most routes in San Diego, and that's if you're in fairly good shape.

The thing about San Diego is not just the hills and canyon, it's the lack of much flat cycling at all. There are sections that are notable exceptions, but, for the most part, you just can't get from A to B without a lot of riding on fairly steep stuff and/or pretty long uphill stuff. The terrain discourages a lot of people from cycling at all, and others from cycling for utilitarian reasons.

whatever, oh great one.

um, we have hills, dude.

how long does it take to bike across Seattle, you ask- Greater or lesser Seattle?

Have you ridden in the dark yet this week, helemt? how many bicyclists did you see? Use any bike lanes on the way to work? that is if you haven't driven every day so far...how many biking trips this week, head? hows YOUR mileage and saddle time this week?

So you guys down in San Diego don't really bike much then, is what you're saying, head?

I looked at San Diego’s terrain in Google Earth and I’m impressed by those canyons! But I think the issue is not so much the terrain it’s the great travel time by car. A 10+ mile trip in Baltimore (and we are hilly like Seattle) is 30 minutes at best and more like 40 minutes (drivers tend to be overly optimistic in reporting travel time.) When I travel solo by bike my time is 50-60 minutes. I know someone who commutes 22 miles one way into the city and his difference in commute time is near zero, some corridors are really bad for car travel.

Through my informal survey it does seem that people are more inclined to replace car trips with bike trips if the difference in travel time is under an hour (around a half hour difference seems ideal.)

The relevant questions are:
How LONG (in time) does it take to get to your meetings, round-trip by bike? And how long by car?

Like I said, when the differences are 30 minutes vs. 2+ hours, the time starts getting very significant.
The more relevant question was already asked by genec. What "cycling advocate" picked such an inaccessible/impractical location for a cyclist advocate meeting? Perhaps someone whose idea of cycling is limited to promoting interests of club cyclists and weekend riders who always drive to/from some cycling event. Or a leader of a group of "advocates" whose concept of cycling advocacy considers only the interests of enthusiasts such as themselves.

But I forgot, advocacy is what HH says it is or it should be; nothing else qualifies.

Santa Barbara has only about 200,000 people in the Carpinteria/Santa Barbara/Goleta area so we have only one meeting. It's not easy to get to because it is downtown in Santa Barbara at noon. Most people who cycle to work work out at the University about 15 miles away. So, to accommodate people who can't get there at noon, they also have evening meetings once a quarter. I attend those. The ride to the meeting for me is about 11 to 15 miles depending on where the meeting is held.

San Diego has about 2 million people if you count the outlying areas. Possibly more, right? I can't remember. Why do you have only a single group and a single meeting place? If your organization was more about improving conditions than fostering elitism you would come up with some way to increase membership and participation instead of make lame excuses about the canyons and the distance.

With 2 million people you'd need about 10 groups to be able to work as effectively as Santa Barbara. Sounds like you have some work to do out in San Diego.

The relevant questions are:
How LONG (in time) does it take to get to your meetings, round-trip by bike? And how long by car?

Like I said, when the differences are 30 minutes vs. 2+ hours, the time starts getting very significant.

The more relevant question was already asked by genec. What "cycling advocate" picked such an inaccessible/impractical location for a cyclist advocate meeting? Perhaps someone whose idea of cycling is limited to promoting interests of club cyclists and weekend riders who always drive to/from some cycling event. Or a leader of a group of "advocates" whose concept of cycling advocacy considers only the interests of enthusiasts such as themselves.

But I forgot, advocacy is what HH says it is or it should be; nothing else qualifies.
The city of San Diego is over 300 square miles (Seattle, in contrast is, about 80 square miles, Portland is 145, Baltimore is 92).

Plus, the coalition represents the entire county, which is over 4,000 square miles, albeit in practice most of the population is coastal in the "greater metro" area. So basically the "ideal" location would be in the middle of an area that's on the order of 1250 square miles (25 east to west by 50 south to north). Our location is in San Diego's "golden triangle" (an area circumscribed by three freeways for easy access) about 5 miles inland and about 25 miles north and south of the furthest members in those directions. Where would you suggest we meet instead?

Santa Barbara has only about 200,000 people in the Carpinteria/Santa Barbara/Goleta area so we have only one meeting. It's not easy to get to because it is downtown in Santa Barbara at noon. Most people who cycle to work work out at the University about 15 miles away. So, to accommodate people who can't get there at noon, they also have evening meetings once a quarter. I attend those. The ride to the meeting for me is about 11 to 15 miles depending on where the meeting is held.

San Diego has about 2 million people if you count the outlying areas. Possibly more, right? I can't remember. Why do you have only a single group and a single meeting place? If your organization was more about improving conditions than fostering elitism you would come up with some way to increase membership and participation instead of make lame excuses about the canyons and the distance.

With 2 million people you'd need about 10 groups to be able to work as effectively as Santa Barbara. Sounds like you have some work to do out in San Diego.
I think you might be on to something. The greater metro area is actually almost 3 million people.

The city of San Diego is made up of communities and council districts. Perhaps we should have organizations for each community or each council district. I'll ask if this has been considered in the past. The coalition itself is about 20 years old I believe.

Thank you for your suggestion.

Seattle metro area is much bigger than the strict 'city limits designation.

Metro Seattle is 3.4 million, last I checked. makes us a lil' bigger than San Diego metro. and if you include the eastside suburban areas as 'seattle' because that is what the entire area really is, you'd get 300 square miles easy. Seattle has a lot of suburb, the 'city limit' is quite compact in retrospect. lets plop down heads' parameters, you scoop up more people here in the same square miles (25x50 or whatever)

You guys don't really bike much down in San Diego is what you're saying, helmet?


oooh, mention of san diegos' 'golden triangle' of not biking to advocacy meetings.

Seattle metro area is much bigger than the strict 'city limits designation.

Metro Seattle is 3.4 million, last I checked. makes us a lil' bigger than San Diego metro. and if you include the eastside suburban areas as 'seattle' because that is what the entire area really is, you'd get 300 square miles easy. Seattle has a lot of suburb, the 'city limit' is quite compact in retrospect. lets plop down heads' parameters, you scoop up more people here in the same square miles (25x50 or whatever)

You guys don't really bike much down in San Diego is what you're saying, helmet?


oooh, mention of san diegos' 'golden triangle' of not biking to advocacy meetings.
So you have one advocacy group for the entire metro area?
Or is there one for downtown, etc?