Tandem Cycling - Group rides-Freeloading singles

My wife and I have gone on 3 group rides and end up pulling along some single riders for miles. I guess they like it as we are about as aerodynamic as a truck. Question...short of slowing way down or stopping, how would I get them to take a turn up front and let me draft some?

Pull over, wave them past and request that they pull some wind, even if it is just for a few seconds to give you a break. The pace might slow a MPH or 2 but everybody needs a breather now and then...even fast teams.

If you're that concerned, use the universal signal - pull off either right or left and give them the hand wave to pull on through.

We run into this a lot once we get popped off the lead group (and we get popped every time). Usually we'll end up pulling a few singles along the flats. They usually respond with a big thanks or ask if it's ok to tag along. We don't mind as long as they stay out of our back wheel and can deal with our coasting strategy to conserve our energy. We've yet to run across an ungrateful freeloading single. And we've done a lot of rallies.

1) Talk to them.
2) standard signal is raise and wiggle your fingers , or flick your elbow. People who ride in pacelines understand this means your pulling off and they need to pull through.

I work with tandems every once in a while on my solo. As others have said, pull off and wave, but make sure you SLOW DOWN by soft-pedaling when you pull off. Nothing mucks up the rhythm like forcing someone to raise the pace just because it is their turn. They should be able to maintain the speed without surging. If someone has more juice, they should pull longer, not harder.

The signal we use and have seen most people use is a tap with a closed fist on the side of the right upper leg. We always pull out to the right, making sure there is no incoming traffic, and do not slow down until we clear the pace line.

Having said that, it does not bother us at all to pull people along. To the contrary, it stimulates us to work harder. If it is a fast group, we eventually have to take a break not to slow things down. We enjoy drafting off other tandems and experinced single riders. There is nothing more anoying than trying to follow a rider that slows down and speeds up every few seconds.

Also, we do not mind/monitor, how close they get to our back wheel. If someone makes contact we hardly feel it. The rider behind us, on the other hand.....

I think every couple that rides a tandem has to deal with this, my wife does not care for people riding right of our back wheel. She thinks they get to close and is concerned about getting run into or crashed due to someone not paying attention, but she has learned to except a certain amout of it. I try to avoid it myself unless I know the riders well. I agree with the wife and do not trust most riders sucking my wheel a few inchs away at higher speeds to only give them a rest and do nothing for us. I have seen a few axcidents happen on single bikes over the years from this and I do not care to take a spill on the tandem with the wife from somone elses stupidity :mad: from not paying attention while drafting our tandem wheel.

Just my 2 cents on the subject,
Bill G :)

I wheel-suck tandems for the same reason I wheel-suck gals on singles - not because I am lazy and want a free ride, but because the view ain't bad! :D

Seriously...it's either rude, or indicates a noob. I don't suck off of folks I don't know or allow folks I don't know to suck off of me. (that didn't come out good, did it?) :eek:

I don't suck off of folks I don't know or allow folks I don't know to suck off of me. (that didn't come out good, did it?) :eek:

I think the "of" in both clauses saves you upon careful reading.

my wife does not care for people riding right of our back wheel. She thinks they get to close and is concerned about getting run into or crashed due to someone not paying attention,


your wife can at least take comfort in the fact that the bike in the back is almost always the one that goes down. Particularly with a tandem, a bike can overlap your back wheel, go down, and hardly be noticed, other than the thunk, the grinding noise, and the "Oh Sh*t".

I think this is pretty common. We have an extra attraction as a wind break at the moment, a child seat at the back, which must make an even bigger hole in the air. We've ridden 'fun rides' where we wonder where all the cyclists are until we look behind and see a queue of people all tucked into our slip-stream! The worst thing seemsto be, that once they've had their rest they speed on by and give a cheery "thanks" as they then head off into the distance. Mind you they don't last long out there usually - wimps!

I think this is pretty common. We have an extra attraction as a wind break at the moment, a child seat at the back, which must make an even bigger hole in the air. We've ridden 'fun rides' where we wonder where all the cyclists are until we look behind and see a queue of people all tucked into our slip-stream! The worst thing seemsto be, that once they've had their rest they speed on by and give a cheery "thanks" as they then head off into the distance. Mind you they don't last long out there usually - wimps!

We try to keep a consistent speed up on the Tandem and if we are towing someone- we rarely notice it. However- if they decide to take the lead- two things happen- First of all they speed up, and lose us- and then when we get back together- their speed varies too much for us to be comfortable. So then it is time for us to wait for the downslope and blast it for about 200 yards and lose them.

Now have you ever been on a solo and tried to catch a good Tandem. Its hard. And once youv'e caught them- tried to stay with them- You have to be a good fit rider to do that.

Like everybody else, it's happened to us a few times. On my single, I don't like drafters that I don't know, but on the long bike it doesn't bother us too much. I feel comfortable enough that if someone taps our rear wheel, we're not going to go down unless we really get nailed and something gets hung up in our spokes.

We do like to play with them, though. As long as we're on the flats, we usually try to push the pace so they have to pay a little for their free pull, and if we get any kind of a downhill at all, we'll hit it hard to put some space between us that they'll have to make up when the road levels out.

What really ticks me off, though, is when some ungrateful lug lets us pull him for several miles, then at the first uphill we encounter goes flying around without so much as a thank you...

Speaking of drafters, my wife and I were out on our tandem riding along the cross seminole trail near Orlando, FL. We're cruising along at around 18 mph and this guy on roller blades catches up with us and drafts off of us for about two miles. He and my wife chatted a bit and we found out he roller blades centuries and was out training for one. I was rather impressed at his keeping up with our bike.

JB

We ride so much alone that we (usually) welcome the company. I don't find much advantage to drafting on the tandem anyway and with all the hills here in the Ozarks our speed difference is a real detriment to group riding with a bunch of singles. We do enjoy gradually upping the pace on the flats and makiing people pay for the privilige though. And in the rolling hills we can really fly regularly hitting 45-50 mph on the descents and often 'cleaning' the next hill as well-or darn close. By this time the wheel suckers are long gone. Only tandem riders can really appreciate the feeling. It's wonderful isn't it!

We ride on the fothills and the sierras of central California. The group of singles we ride with have learned that after a large climb usually come a thrilling descent. Even though most of the singles beat us in the climb, they all know better than to start coming down before we do. It is awfully hard to overcome a 10-15 MPH differential in 2-3 seconds. We love to fly past novices...

...regularly hitting 45-50 mph on the descents ...It's wonderful isn't it!


Not if you're a skeerdy cat like me. All I can think about is one of my wheels exploding.

It's like rock (or in my case tree) climbing: Either trust your equipment or stay home. If you don't trust your equipment then get some you do. And if your equipment IS trustworthy then let 'er rip. And why would my wheel blow anyway? Hasn't happened in over 10 years of riding and racing road and mountain bikes. Now dogs and critters, that's another story...
Best speed this year is 51 mph. We get 47-48 all the time but I will admit that 49 mph in the rain was a little sketchy the other day. A lot of the roads around here are 10% grades (must be the county road commision limit) so we use the downhills to get up the next one. Plus my stokers' a speed freak. :):)

Either trust your equipment or stay home.

I was gonna tell that to the sport biker we saw on one of our returns from a group ride the other day but they had him covered in two separate yellow blankies on the access road. Some of us have less of the Darwin gene in us than others.

I was gonna tell that to the sport biker we saw on one of our returns from a group ride the other day but they had him covered in two separate yellow blankies on the access road. Some of us have less of the Darwin gene in us than others.


Here's some food for thought...

Chances are, if you and yours were clipped by a motor vehicle while riding your tandem and ended up on the side of the road under the ubiquitous yellow or blue blankets, the majority of the passing motorists would likely comment about Darwinism running its course as well.

While I don't know how that particular sportbike rider ended up being a "rider down" -- and while I've seen more than my share of squidly organ doners doing stunts or otherwise tossing the vehicle code out the window as they indulged their inner-pschochild on public roads who do fit your stereotype -- I would note that a very, very, very large number of the motorcyclists who are injured or killed in collisions with larger vehicles were no more at fault than many of the cyclists who are injured or killed in collisions with motor vehicles. Case in point, Ben Roethlisberger took a lot of flak after a motorist turned left into his path and nearly killed him, in part because he wasn't wearing a helmet. Funny how so little was written about the negligent, irresponsible motorist who was the one at fault, as is so often the case with motorcycle and bicycle accidents.

Just something to consider when you see a rider down. Yeah, some of them are beggin' for it, but fate is cruel and usually lets those idiots survive to procreate while taking instead the grandfather, grandmother, husband, father, wife, mother, or otherwise good citizen who was doing nothing more than legally riding their vehicle of choice on a public road.

There is almost that war zone feeling of "I am glad it was not me" when I see or hear of someone getting hit. In the end, it does not matter who was at fault when someone gets hit. Attributing blame does not heal the wounds any better or quicker. While statistically or actuarily you can attribute accidents to Darwin, I think that term has come to imply a superiority over the victims. For anyone that feels that way, the relevance of Darwin will not be on your mind when it strikes closer to your home.

These are not for the squeamish:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3611311580944102625
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ohf2HalRNJQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V2tb4Puw4MQ

Please don't post the 2nd in A&S - Helmet Head would have a field day.

In 200,000+ miles of tandeming as a team, we have been struck 3 times by motor vehicles.
Yes, we survived all 3 hits and each time the driver of the vehicle was ticketed; and the last one had his restricted driver's license revoked.
Luck, skill or Darwin . . . we're still out there a-pedalin'!
Our motto: If you don't do nothin' you're gonna die anyway!
As for drafters on our wheel; we're in our 70s now, and not likely we'll get anybody drafting at our current 'speed'!
However, in our younger days, we had plenty of wheelsuckers. The funniest comment we had in a pace line: "You two on the tandem have to pull twice as long as there's two of you!" Our reply: " . . . then we can sit on the back twice as long?!"

Pedal on TWOgether!
Rudy and Kay/zonatandem

We enjoy being the wheel that some riders want to hang on. When I started club riding as a single there were a couple of times that I was very thankful to get a break behind the tandem team.

Now that I'm part of a tandem team, I enjoy returning the favor. We're more than happy to do the long pull into the wind, bring back someone that's trying to hang with the group but couldn't close the gap by themselves, or help a new rider working to get to the next level, making sure that they can hold our wheel as we all rotate through the line.

Even more fun though, is when we occassionaly set up the regular slacker;
You know, the guy that talks about how fast he's getting and all the miles he does, but always hunts out the tandem wheels and only does the short pull when he accidently gets to the front.

It may be a bit cruel, but I like getting in front of him when we're in the middle of the pace line. He thinks he's sitting pretty behind us. Then we get up to the front and very gradually, so he hardly notices, we bring it up .5, 1, 1.5, 2, 3 MPH faster and hold it for a couple of miles. Most of the rest of the group figures it out soon enough, and we're not that fast or so rude that we'd push it too far outside the ability of the others that are willing to work.

When we finally pull off, he does a 1/4 mile or less and usually gets spit off the back.

We don't pull him back, the slow group behind us will sweep him up.

We enjoy being the wheel that some riders want to hang on. When I started club riding as a single there were a couple of times that I was very thankful to get a break behind the tandem team.

Now that I'm part of a tandem team, I enjoy returning the favor. We're more than happy to do the long pull into the wind, bring back someone that's trying to hang with the group but couldn't close the gap by themselves, or help a new rider working to get to the next level, making sure that they can hold our wheel as we all rotate through the line.

Even more fun though, is when we occassionaly set up the regular slacker;
You know, the guy that talks about how fast he's getting and all the miles he does, but always hunts out the tandem wheels and only does the short pull when he accidently gets to the front.

It may be a bit cruel, but I like getting in front of him when we're in the middle of the pace line. He thinks he's sitting pretty behind us. Then we get up to the front and very gradually, so he hardly notices, we bring it up .5, 1, 1.5, 2, 3 MPH faster and hold it for a couple of miles. Most of the rest of the group figures it out soon enough, and we're not that fast or so rude that we'd push it too far outside the ability of the others that are willing to work.

When we finally pull off, he does a 1/4 mile or less and usually gets spit off the back.

We don't pull him back, the slow group behind us will sweep him up.

Sounds like another tandem couple we know from Florida.

Hope we get to ride with you guys in the future. Maybe in Sebring in December or better yet the Tandem Rally in March.

I was gonna tell that to the sport biker we saw on one of our returns from a group ride the other day but they had him covered in two separate yellow blankies on the access road. Some of us have less of the Darwin gene in us than others.

Sorry to hear about anyone losing his/her life on the road but is there some connection between Sport Bikes and tandems that I missed somewhere? Should I ride the brakes more?

Sorry to hear about anyone losing his/her life on the road but is there some connection between Sport Bikes and tandems that I missed somewhere? Should I ride the brakes more?


No connection whatsoever. It was random babbling that got away from me. If you really want your head to spin, go check out the roadie forum. They can really do the dis-association thingy there. Oh, and just remove the brakes...no need for them here. Brakes are for girly men.

Hope we get to ride with you guys in the future. Maybe in Sebring in December or better yet the Tandem Rally in March.

We're "probables" for Dec., "definites" for March. We'll look forward to riding with you too!

We're "probables" for Dec., "definites" for March. We'll look forward to riding with you too!

We'll be at both rides for sure. Last year at the tandem rally we enjoyed some spirited rides with 6 other teams. Lots of fun! Looking forward to same this year. Keep an eye out for a blue Santana Sovereign. Can't wait!

Recently we had two single cyclists in their 30's, both on high end bikes, pull up to us at a light and comment on our fast pace. Seems they had tried to catch us the day before but were dropped after a few miles. For their effort, they got to draft for the next few miles and we (both in our 50's) received the best compliment in years.
Tandem Edge
Trek T2000

We're in our 50's as well and have had the same experience more than once. Fun ain't it! On our last group ride just south of St. Louis we had bunch of pretty fit looking 'younger' cyclists strung out behind us and didn't even know it. A few miles later only one rider-late 20's maybe-was left and once we hit the rolling hills we popped him off too. (But I must confess that once your over 50 everybody under the age of 40 looks young!) It's the tandem thing: From the Santana Website (hope they don't mind but they say it so well) .. when two cyclists ride together on singles, they are limited by the speed and range of the slower rider. Tandem partners, however, automatically attain or exceed the speed and range of the faster rider. This near-doubling of horsepower allows tandem partners to enjoy longer tours and faster training rides. Many tandem couples, even seniors, are delighted to find themselves routinely pulling long pacelines of young riders. We love tandem riding for this very aspect. My stokers new to cycling yet on the tandem she can have the same experience more seasoned riders enjoy. She was 'stoked' when one of the other riders asked us (after a few comments on our speed) how long we had been riding together. The implied message being 'obviously quite a while' when in fact it's only been a few months. Now she wants matching jerseys!

What's the problem with following wheels? This is half the fun of cycling and a really key technique for being able to ride fast over long distances.

It does sound like the complaints are coming from people who can barely ride a bike let alone feel comfortable in a paceline or road race. My experience is that as soon as you are able to ride a bike at a decent speed, the only people able to keep up are also those who know how to ride in a straight line. There are rare exceptions of course (triathletes and runners normally), but a bit of on-road coaching or a twisty downhill normally solves this.

The other trick is to ensure everyone does some work so that they all get tired, and only then to turn up the pace enough to get rid of 16mph wobblers without signalling to the Elites in the pack that you do want to ride at 30mph and go up every hill in the big ring. It's uncool to sprint off at 30mph then fade a mile later or use your mouth to write checks your legs can't cash!

.. when two cyclists ride together on singles, they are limited by the speed and range of the slower rider. Tandem partners, however, automatically attain or exceed the speed and range of the faster rider. This near-doubling of horsepower allows tandem partners to enjoy longer tours and faster training rides. Many tandem couples, even seniors, are delighted to find themselves routinely pulling long pacelines of young riders.


Reads like marketing BS 101. This is definitely not happening in our case. I can do a century faster and feel wired at the end on a single vs. on a tandem. The tandem only increases the speed and range of my stoker. It reduces mine.

Reads like marketing BS 101. This is definitely not happening in our case. I can do a century faster and feel wired at the end on a single vs. on a tandem. The tandem only increases the speed and range of my stoker. It reduces mine.

+1.

the 2 tandem riders exceeding the top speed of either may be true if both riders are pretty equal, but in our case our speed falls between what the 2 of us would do seperately.

Reads like marketing BS 101. This is definitely not happening in our case. I can do a century faster and feel wired at the end on a single vs. on a tandem. The tandem only increases the speed and range of my stoker. It reduces mine.
While it is no doubt marketing BS 101 it is still true for me. But those generalizations get you every time don't they? Obviously it is going to depend on the combined abilities of stoker and driver. 'Never assume..' My appologies.

Not to derail...

Here are some ballpark 50 mile averages, rolling Maryland terrain:

Me on single alone: 18 MPH +/-

Me on single with 2-3 other good riders: 19.5 + MPH

Tandem: 16 MPH

stoker on her single: Can't do 50 miles alone and her average for any ride is about 10 MPH

If it was a dead-flat 50 mile ride, we might be slightly faster on the tandem than me alone, but she just can't sustain the workload and really doesn't want too. It's more of a togetherness thing.

But make no mistake, I get a good workout regardless of which vehicle I take, mainly because I am going to hit some steep hills on purpose and force the issue.

I have ridden with 3 different stokers over the last 5 years and have found the Santana statement generally true. The team will 'approximate' the ability/speed of the faster rider. Yes, we're all faster on our single bikes, me included. But not that much and I am definetly fresher on the tandem for equivalent distances. Plus it's just more fun. Riding rolling hills on the tandem is unmatched. Come down here and ride with us some time and see for yourself.

Last tandem ride I did we pulled the whole way and the remaining 8 riders finished the 65 miles so fast that my racing buddy's wife said "what are you doing home so soon?" when he got home. His response was "two words, .... Katie and Jim". We worked at 28 to 30 and ate at 26.

Our crusing speed on flat and down hill is 2-3 and 5-10 MPH respectively higher on the tandem than what I (the faster rider) can do on the single. Going up hill our speed is a little lower than the average of both of us in our singles.

i'm with galen, we're slower on the tandem than i am on my single as my wife and i are at different ends of the cycling spectrum. i've ridden hundreds of thousands of miles while she's ridden hundreds. but we're getting better. when i've ridden with other racers as a stoker yeah, we were definitely faster.

i'm with galen, we're slower on the tandem than i am on my single as my wife and i are at different ends of the cycling spectrum. i've ridden hundreds of thousands of miles while she's ridden hundreds. but we're getting better. when i've ridden with other racers as a stoker yeah, we were definitely faster.

My stoker has forbidden me to ride with another strong male. She likens it to cheating on her.

Sounds to me like there is a formula here. If the weaker rider is strong enough to contribute over the threshold of the aero advantage, the tandem is faster than the single in regards to the stronger rider. If the weaker rider cannot contribute above the aero advantage, they are stealing power from the stronger rider.

For those claiming your tandem is faster, I would surmise you are more equally matched with your stoker.

Whether I'm on the tandem with my wife, or my 10 year old, if anyone wants a free ride, we ratchet up the pace and make them pay the piper. :D

We did a group ride today, fifty seven miles, and only pulled once.



For fifty seven miles.

Tandem rides a bunch of years ago ('80's) were usually pretty good with 5-8 tandems pulling like 30 singles along in a huge pack (yeah, big organized rides). Nowadays, I'm starting to enjoy getting back into tandem riding with my older boy; fortunately where we ride we don't get a whole bunch of singles going in the same direction, and if they are, they're either going faster or much slower, so wheel-sucking doesn't really bother me all that much. If I'm on the tandem, I'd rather draft off another equally matched tandem rather than a single because we usually end up with squirelly singles that can't ride a consistent speed and if there's one thing that really bugs me on a tandem it's yo-yoing with the bike in front of me.

The best part of messing w/ singles is cresting a climb before a looong, fast downhill and seeing who was able to do the best Paolo Savoldelli impression to stay with you. ;)