Singlespeed & Fixed Gear - Yet another lock thread

After trading in my cable lock for some real security in the form of a kryptonite standard U-lock, I've been having problems getting it to actually lock around stuff. Signs and stuff fit, most others don't. I tried getting a cable to go from the u-lock to whatever I'm locking it to, but that's a bit unwieldy. I've decided my best option is locking skewers and a chain.

However, my u-lock is a relatively svelte 2lbs. I don't want to carry around 10lbs of chain to replace that, but I don't want my bike stolen either. What's the best compromise? There's theft in Boston, but it's not NYC. What do you use?

KJ

After trading in my cable lock for some real security in the form of a kryptonite standard U-lock, I've been having problems getting it to actually lock around stuff. Signs and stuff fit, most others don't. I tried getting a cable to go from the u-lock to whatever I'm locking it to, but that's a bit unwieldy. I've decided my best option is locking skewers and a chain.

However, my u-lock is a relatively svelte 2lbs. I don't want to carry around 10lbs of chain to replace that, but I don't want my bike stolen either. What's the best compromise? There's theft in Boston, but it's not NYC. What do you use?

KJ
I live in cambridge, and having had smaller locks cut and my bike disappear I wouldn't use anythin less then a U-lock or something of comparable strengh. You could get a chain lock that is larger and would fit around more things but it would be just as heavy or heavier... other options include:
http://www.kryptonitelock.com/inetisscripts/abtinetis.exe/PublicArticleDetails@public?artid=3033&atf=products_item&pgrp=20

http://www.kryptonitelock.com/inetisscripts/abtinetis.exe/PublicArticleDetails@public?artid=3054&atf=products_item&pgrp=20

http://www.onguardlock.com/armour.html

All of which are secure, yet also heavy.

This is the lock that was cut (would not recommend):
http://www.kryptonitelock.com/inetisscripts/abtinetis.exe/PublicArticleDetails@public?artid=2708&atf=products_item&pgrp=20

just get a bigger U lock

After trading in my cable lock for some real security in the form of a kryptonite standard U-lock, I've been having problems getting it to actually lock around stuff. Signs and stuff fit, most others don't. I tried getting a cable to go from the u-lock to whatever I'm locking it to, but that's a bit unwieldy. I've decided my best option is locking skewers and a chain.

However, my u-lock is a relatively svelte 2lbs. I don't want to carry around 10lbs of chain to replace that, but I don't want my bike stolen either. What's the best compromise? There's theft in Boston, but it's not NYC. What do you use?

KJ

Brighton reprayzent!

i've been using an onguard mini bulldog for the past year all around the city. sheldon style through the rear wheel (inside the rear triangle) usually attaches it to most parking meters, signs and racks. in the rare event that i need to lock it to something larger for a short time, i have one of their 10mm cables that i loop around the post and then attach to my lock which is securing the rear wheel to the frame.

frankly, i consider the biggest threat to my bike rowdy/drunk college kids as they seem to like stomping bikes. never had a problem when i locked up in cambridge, roxbury, dorchester, lower allston, mission hill or anywhere else for that matter. if you use a good mini-u correctly, then you're probably better off than 90% of the people who leave their bikes locked in the boston area. i see thin cable locks, unsecured quick release components, and ulocks secured to quick release components all the time.

Learn to use the U. That's the best lock type, really... unless you don't mind 3or4 pounds of extra weight that you have to carry around only for being able to lock to a thicker pole.Then buy a chain.

Forget cables. Cable from the U to the pole??? That's like freelocking... Not recommended if you like your bike.

I use the chain. Around the waist I hardly even notice it. The increased range of lock-to-able spots is so worth it, plus you can lock a friend up with you if for some ungodly reason they don't have a lock or just can't lock up at the spot where you're locking.

I used to see U-locks at college campuses in weird configurations. I always thought these people didn't know what they are doing. Havent' they seen Sheldon Brown's page where he shows how to lock the rear wheel from inside the rear triangle. That way they can't steel your rear wheel.

I have a U-lock now. It can be tough getting it around some rigid object and your rear wheel. Now, I'm one of those guys who might U-lock the head tube to a tree.

I think the right answer if you are having trouble reaching rigid objects with the U-lock is to just get a bigger U-lock.

Havent' they seen Sheldon Brown's page where he shows how to lock the rear wheel from inside the rear triangle. That way they can't steel your rear wheel.

just the rest of your bike.

just the rest of your bike.

Nope. If you lock through the back wheel correctly the bike itself is safe. Of course it doesn't protect the stem, bars, front wheel, and such, but what lock does? If you're through the back wheel properly they can't get the U through the rear triangle, thereby protecting the whole whip. Think about it. My problem with this strategy is that it won't be readily evident to the thief that the bike is, in fact, secure. This might encourage them to make an attempt and leave your bike half taken apart or worse if they get frustrated at being thwarted and decide to take their anger out on the bike.

Does anyone know is Krypto or similar makes chain with massive links, but that is only the length of a mini-ulock shackle? Just enough for front wheel, frame & parking meter. I didn't see one on their site.

Nope. If you lock through the back wheel correctly the bike itself is safe. Of course it doesn't protect the stem, bars, front wheel, and such, but what lock does? If you're through the back wheel properly they can't get the U through the rear triangle, thereby protecting the whole whip. Think about it. My problem with this strategy is that it won't be readily evident to the thief that the bike is, in fact, secure. This might encourage them to make an attempt and leave your bike half taken apart or worse if they get frustrated at being thwarted and decide to take their anger out on the bike.

Sheldon is wrong. They can easily cut the wheel then just leave the lock. You bike is only as secure as the weakest link and an extruded aluminum rim is alot weaker then most things you would lock to or the lock itself.

Yeah, might as well secure a seat stay in there while you at it.

The spoke tension will make the rim a huge pain in the ass to cut through. There's a reason that wheels stay true through bumps and hits. I don't employ his method myself, but I definitely see how it works.

Sheldon is wrong. They can easily cut the wheel then just leave the lock. You bike is only as secure as the weakest link and an extruded aluminum rim is alot weaker then most things you would lock to or the lock itself.


If your locking the rear wheel wouldn't either of these positions work better? My lock ("on guard" U-lock which was just what I convinced my LBS to through in with my roadie bike) fits in both configurations.. They seem safer then sheldon's to me???

http://static.flickr.com/121/268662430_f28390b837_o.jpg

They can easily cut the wheel ...
I think this is where you're wrong. Cutting through a wheel, inflated tube and tire is ****ing hard. 99% of the time, the thief could do better by going to a bike with a crappier lock and/or more poorly locked bike.

I've seen bikes with their top tubes cut, so to suggest that a rear rim is going to be hard is funny. But, don't go locking your bike up on 7th/Market. ;)

In response to the shorter Krypto links, you can buy those same links and some locksmiths in any length you want. Which would be kind of cool. Then just get a Krypto disc lock and you're set.

Having tried to hacksaw through a wheel to test this theory, I can tell you that I got a blade seriously stuck then broke it. On my second attempt I got through it with a lot of work and some cutting fluid. I cut through a ****ty rigida rim and was able to bend the two cut ends away to get the lock out, but if someone were sawing a bigger rim like a Deep-V two cuts might have to be made to get the lock out.

So yeah, the Sheldon technique is just fine; if people are going to go through the effort to cut your rim, they'll probably find a way to steal your bike anyway.

I've seen bikes with their top tubes cut, so to suggest that a rear rim is going to be hard is funny. But, don't go locking your bike up on 7th/Market. ;)
Honestly, I really think that if I had a choice between cutting one of the two, based on ease, I'd go for the top tube. But give it a try.

Rims are hard to slice through, easier to attack part of the rear triangle & make 2 cuts. Either way it's not riding away beneath the thief. I don't use the Sheldon method because an idiot might think it's not secure and remove the rear wheel, then jerk the bike around trying to figure out how to get it loose.

Easier than slicing through the rim would be to deflate the tire, cut the tire & tube, crack the rim at the seam, snip the spokes that seperate gap in rim from u-lock.

Does anyone know is Krypto or similar makes chain with massive links, but that is only the length of a mini-ulock shackle? Just enough for front wheel, frame & parking meter. I didn't see one on their site.


krypto noose lock (http://www.kryptonitelock.com/inetisscripts/abtinetis.exe/PublicArticleDetails@public?artid=2735&atf=products_item&pgrp=20) might do the trick. The noose makes it so you can cinch it down and make the whole chain shorter

I don't use the Sheldon method because an idiot might think it's not secure and remove the rear wheel, then jerk the bike around trying to figure out how to get it loose.
The Sheldon method seems to rely on the fact that if they try to pry the bike loose, they'll destroy the rim and tire and not your frame. Are you saying that the stays will give before the rim?

If they have bad-ass enough tools to cut through a rim and tire easily, then they can get the U-lock off regardless, so the method doesn't concern them.

The Sheldon method seems to rely on the fact that if they try to pry the bike loose, they'll destroy the rim and tire and not your frame. Are you saying that the stays will give before the rim?

If they have bad-ass enough tools to cut through a rim and tire easily, then they can get the U-lock off regardless, so the method doesn't concern them.

I think his point was that some idiot might think "I can take that bike EASY!".. then the idiot procedes to the **** up the rim and tire (and maybe more) attempting to steal the bike, and may or may not succeed.. had the bike been lock in a more traditional secure manner then the idiot theif might have kept walking

Thanks for the replies. I'm OK if I can find a parking meter, but one of the lovely things about Brighton is that in a lot of spaces on-street parking has no meters. Specifically, I went to get my haircut in Oak Square, nothing but 6" tree trunks and thicker lampposts. I has to leave my bike out front locked to itself. I don't know about a U-lock big enough for that situation!

Any chains that are secure but in the 5lbs (thereabouts) or less category?

I agree though that the sheldon method may appear to the dumber thief to be inferior, so may lead to messing with and what have you. Just a thought..

KJ

Thanks for the replies. I'm OK if I can find a parking meter, but one of the lovely things about Brighton is that in a lot of spaces on-street parking has no meters. Specifically, I went to get my haircut in Oak Square, nothing but 6" tree trunks and thicker lampposts. I has to leave my bike out front locked to itself. I don't know about a U-lock big enough for that situation!

Any chains that are secure but in the 5lbs (thereabouts) or less category?

I agree though that the sheldon method may appear to the dumber thief to be inferior, so may lead to messing with and what have you. Just a thought..

KJ


Depending on your situation you could always leave a thick chain somewhere. A lot of people leave a U-lock locked to a pole at work so they don't have to carry it everyday. You could just leave something downtown where you are a lot.

Any chains that are secure but in the 5lbs (thereabouts) or less category?

google google google......:)

The fahgedabout it is 3' 3" long. And 8.4 lb

This is the NY noose 2"3" long. Just what you want I think. 4.6 lb

http://www.kryptonitelock.com/inetisscripts/abtinetis.exe/PublicArticleDetails@public?artid=2735&atf=products_item&pgrp=20

What everyone seems to be missing here is that you can detentension a wheel in a matter of seconds and then have no trouble clipping or cutting the rim.

If you are spending $40 on a lock because it has a longer cut time then a $20 one you would be crazy to lock in a fashion that allows what you secure to to be cut faster then the $20 lock without trashing the bike.

Nobody is going to steal a Sheldon-locked bike by cutting the wheel, ever. At that point, it's easier to cut the signpost it's locked to, and I'm not joking.
Cutting the top tube is definitely *a lot easier* than cutting the wheel, tyre and all. Somebody dig up the vid where a frambuilder chops a frame in half to install that take-apart travel joint thigy (WTF is it called?)

The reason why I think Sheldon-locking is very silly most of the time is that some dumb-ass thief might *try* to steal the frame and damage your ****. Also, the lock will usually easily reach around the chainstay, seatstay or seattube as well as the rim, so why not reassure the crooks that the bike *is* locked?

s+ s coupler?

Cutting the top tube is easy but it destroys the frame. Cutting the wheel doesn't. There is no question locking to a street sign with a $40 lock is absurd anyway.

Sheldon is wrong. They can easily cut the wheel then just leave the lock. You bike is only as secure as the weakest link and an extruded aluminum rim is alot weaker then most things you would lock to or the lock itself.

not really true. As soon as you start getting anywhere cutting a rim the compression from the spokes causes it the blade to bind. This is the same principle that allows you to cut a rim into 32 pieces, lace them up, and ride it around the block like nothing ever happened. If you were really good you might be able to kind of "ring" the thing with the saw or grinder and then break it, but I've never heard of a bike getting stolen this way. Not saying it's totally impossible, but hacking up a laced up wheel is nowhere near as easy as just buzzing through a bare rim.

i have the 2'3" noose chain, its pretty good. i always lock front wheel+frame, since my front is QR. the chain wont fit around your waist though.

i've never really seen the sense of the sheldon method, to be honest. i use a pitbull mini-u for short stays, and try wherever possible to lock through the triangle and the front wheel, on the basis that it's marginally easier to remove the front wheel than the rear. you need a relatively slim pole for this (parking sign or construction, both plentiful in nyc). for longer stays (which are rare) i use the kryptonite fahgedaboutit chain and disc lock, chain through both wheels and triangle. i usually only carry one or the other, depending on what my plans for the day are. for overnight locking up, i trust only one lock, and that's on the door of my apartment.

edit: and yes, the lock is far stronger than the street sign pole it's attached to, but i think even in new york someone hacking down a street sign and then removing a bike attached to it, lock and all, would draw attention.

cut a rim into 32 pieces, lace them up, and ride it around the block like nothing ever happened.
I so want to do this now. Are you sure it's possible? Cuz I have a junk MTB wheel around, and winter's gonna be long anyway...

not really true. As soon as you start getting anywhere cutting a rim the compression from the spokes causes it the blade to bind.

As I already pointed out.


What everyone seems to be missing here is that you can detentension a wheel in a matter of seconds and then have no trouble clipping or cutting the rim.

bike thieves are gonna be walking around with a spoke wrench?

for longer stays (which are rare) i use the kryptonite fahgedaboutit chain and disc lock, chain through both wheels and triangle. i usually only carry one or the other, depending on what my plans for the day are. for overnight locking up, i trust only one lock, and that's on the door of my apartment.


Is that the 3'3" fahgedaboutit? Does it just fit around a street sign or is there some play for slightly larger stuff? It won't work on my road conversion due to wheelbase but I'm really hoping it will work on my track bike to avoid carrying two locks. Do you loop it through the triangle around the downtube or the seattube? Sorry for all the questions, this'll be my first non-pos bike in NYC and I'm a little worried.

After a friend told me they saw 2 bikes get stolen off my campus in broad daylight, I got the longer NYC chain. Goes through front wheel, frame, and rear wheel...and I have my seat connected to my rear triangle by an old Z chain.

For quick lockups while grabbin beers, I just use my evo mini.

So far, so good. **knocks on masonite desk**

Is that the 3'3" fahgedaboutit? Does it just fit around a street sign or is there some play for slightly larger stuff? It won't work on my road conversion due to wheelbase but I'm really hoping it will work on my track bike to avoid carrying two locks. Do you loop it through the triangle around the downtube or the seattube? Sorry for all the questions, this'll be my first non-pos bike in NYC and I'm a little worried.


yeah the 3 footer. my bike is short and it only just makes round a street sign. i loop through both wheels within the rear triangle

bike thieves are gonna be walking around with a spoke wrench?

There are far faster and easier ways to detension a wheel then unscrewing each spoke if you don't need to reuse the spokes or rim.

yeah true. i've done it myself with a good old set of tin clips. as i said i don't agree with the sheldon method, but that's because as has been said it doesn't look secure and some ******* might **** up your **** before realizing it's actually locked, rather than assuming someone's gonna hacksaw through your wheel, and definitely rather than assuming they know they gotta detension it first

You can probably just clip a tensioned wheel with bolt cutters too though I've never tried. There are probably alot bike theifs with bolt cutters then hacksaws.

After deflating the tire & cutting the tire & tube out of the way I'm sure you could use a good set of bolt cutters to make 3 clips through a rim. One for each wall. You would need to bend it well to get the last one though. Then just snip through a few spokes to detension, bend wheel out of the ulocks grasp and it's yours, but you can't ride it away.

No, the Sheldon method is quite ingenious, what you see as a weak link is a link that requires several steps to break no matter your approach. This runs right against any thieves preferred M.O., smart or studid, equipped or not. Ingenious also as it allows a smaller u-lock to be used in a few more instances than otherwise available and without a drop in security.

Really man, opinions etc but "Sheldon is wrong", that's just stupid and I'd rather be wrong any day. Sheldons method = Different yes, wrong, no.

i have 3 locks. a krypto chain and disc lock, a u-lock, and a cable and molly lock. the cable and lock is always in the bag for the just in case times. chain and lock is for group rides (eveyone can lock up) and when i'm gonna be in a ****ty area, the u-lock is just for day to day outings but all of them go through main triangle and front wheel.

I so want to do this now. Are you sure it's possible? Cuz I have a junk MTB wheel around, and winter's gonna be long anyway...

Sure it's possible? Yeah, I saw a bike with a wheel like this at my buddy's shop tonight, and I have seen that same wheel ridden. I reccomend doing it with a jeweler's saw and making the cuts kind of scalloped shaped so that the pieces dovetail together nicely. If you do it with a larger saw you will end up taking out so much metal the wheel will be too small and you won't be able to mount a tire. Number the sections before you start cutting or you'll never get it all straightened out. Also, don't use a rim brake on that wheel if you do actually ride it.

OK, yeah, it is possible to cut all or a good portion of the spokes and then cut the rim.

I want to get a poll going on here about how bikes actually get stolen. I'm betting that no bike worth less than $1000 and locked up for less than 24 hours with any respectable (onguard or post-pengate krypto) U lock has ever been stolen via a lock defeat.

After deflating the tire & cutting the tire & tube out of the way I'm sure you could use a good set of bolt cutters to make 3 clips through a rim. One for each wall. You would need to bend it well to get the last one though. Then just snip through a few spokes to detension, bend wheel out of the ulocks grasp and it's yours, but you can't ride it away.

No, the Sheldon method is quite ingenious, what you see as a weak link is a link that requires several steps to break no matter your approach. This runs right against any thieves preferred M.O., smart or studid, equipped or not. Ingenious also as it allows a smaller u-lock to be used in a few more instances than otherwise available and without a drop in security.

Really man, opinions etc but "Sheldon is wrong", that's just stupid and I'd rather be wrong any day. Sheldons method = Different yes, wrong, no.



Second, cutting the rear rim is much harder than you might think. Since the rim is under substantial compression due to the tension on the spokes, it would pinch a hacksaw blade tight as soon as it cut partway through. Then there are the wire beads of the tire, also difficult to cut.

This statement is wrong. He asserts that a rim is hard to cut through because you can't simply do it with a hacksaw. I could say the same thing about a cable lock. It's strong because it takes a while to cut it with a hacksaw. A hacksaw is a poor tool choice for each task and it's unlikely a thief would even have one since there is little a hacksaw is good for when stealing bikes. It is not that difficult if the thief is armed with the correct tool so sheldon's misleading statement is wrong.

I doubt you would have to cut the tire and tube away before attacking the rim just flatten them and unless you have really high profile rims you can probably just crumple the whole thing and cut it with a single snip.

My point still stands that if you are spending extra money for a fancier lock it would be absurd to use this method since it creates a link much weaker then the lock. If you have only a mini lock and can't fit it through the frame and wheel both you should forget the wheel and just lock the frame rather then locking the wheel and sort of the frame.


Wouldn't cutting the rim in a buch of places seriously **** up braking?

I want to get a poll going on here about how bikes actually get stolen.
90% of the time it wasn't locked, 9% of the time it was locked stupidly (QR, locked to a chainlink fence, etc), .9% of the time using a crappy cable lock. .09% of the time I would be a quality lock was actually defeated.

Getting back to locks, I'm liking the Abus Steel-O-Flex/Granite cable locks.

Cheaper than a Fahgettaboudit chains, but with very decent level of protection. It's much easier to lock up to poles/racks with this and its about half the weight. Its also very comfortable to carry around waist.

Most of the time I use this and leave my Krypto chain at home. But then I now live somewhere now where most folks seem to lock up with bits of string.

Second, cutting the rear rim is much harder than you might think. Since the rim is under substantial compression due to the tension on the spokes, it would pinch a hacksaw blade tight as soon as it cut partway through. Then there are the wire beads of the tire, also difficult to cut.



This statement is wrong. He asserts that a rim is hard to cut through because you can't simply do it with a hacksaw. I could say the same thing about a cable lock. It's strong because it takes a while to cut it with a hacksaw. A hacksaw is a poor tool choice for each task and it's unlikely a thief would even have one since there is little a hacksaw is good for when stealing bikes. It is not that difficult if the thief is armed with the correct tool so sheldon's misleading statement is wrong.

I doubt you would have to cut the tire and tube away before attacking the rim just flatten them and unless you have really high profile rims you can probably just crumple the whole thing and cut it with a single snip.

My point still stands that if you are spending extra money for a fancier lock it would be absurd to use this method since it creates a link much weaker then the lock. If you have only a mini lock and can't fit it through the frame and wheel both you should forget the wheel and just lock the frame rather then locking the wheel and sort of the frame.

That statement isn't wrong. It makes no mention of bolt cutters, only hacksaws.

Those are some amazing bolt cutters you've got there, to go through a tire & rim with one snip. I'm just glancing at a set of 105 shimano rims WH-R550 on my wifes Archbold and they look to have a 25mm diameter w/out a deflated tire, certainly not aero. I've never seen -bolt cutters you could walk around with- that would do that in one snip.

Now if my plumber came along wanting my bike, his pipe cutters would do okay, the bead of the tire would slow him down but he's a very strong man.

Bolt cutters, 24" & below are a poor weapon against wheels. Several cuts are necessary, 3 at least for the rim alone, more for these 105s. Add a few cuts for spokes, add a few for tire beads.

Your point that a wheel isn't as strong a material as lock or frame, and therefore constitutes a weak link, doesn't take into account the complex arrangement of materials that is a wheel. It doesn't matter how hard the material is, only how hard it is to cut.

I'm surprised you haven't just mentioned the method I'd employ if I were a lowlife thief. Deflate, cut tire & tube, crack rim seam, & cut spokes. Without very specialized tools this has the best potential for quickly defeating a wheel. All you need are cable/wire/tin snips or equivalent

edit: and yes, the lock is far stronger than the street sign pole it's attached to, but i think even in new york someone hacking down a street sign and then removing a bike attached to it, lock and all, would draw attention.


Nope, I hacked my lock for 40 minutes dwtn Brooklyn when the key snapped, nobody said nothin...which made me start using my chain again.


Is that the 3'3" fahgedaboutit? Does it just fit around a street sign or is there some play for slightly larger stuff? It won't work on my road conversion due to wheelbase but I'm really hoping it will work on my track bike to avoid carrying two locks. Do you loop it through the triangle around the downtube or the seattube? Sorry for all the questions, this'll be my first non-pos bike in NYC and I'm a little worried.

You should be ok with the chain, it fits around both my track bikes and the fuji wheel base is longer than my other bike. I can get it around pretty much every type of pole in NYC, even the thick scaffolding poles.

I certainly hope no thiefs are reading this...

I never lock up my nice bike, and for my crappy bike I use a mini-U on the top tube in the hopes that someone will steal my wheels so that I can justify buying new ones.