So, for anyone who doesn't know, Calgary is growing like a weed. Some people say it will have the population of Toronto within 15 years(don't really know about that). This of course has caused massive spikes in house rates. Right now, the average price for a standard single-family dwelling is around $330,000+. Well, that realy bites it for guys like me, who only make around 31,000 a year. Having a mortgage would be absolutely impossible. On a similiar note, the city just did a study that said there are currently more than 740,000 vehicles on the road in our fair city. With a pop. of just over a million, that's A LOT of cars and trucks. Also, there doesn't seem to be a vision for building sustainable housing, I.E. NOT the suburbs. They are still building the tradional way, as if nothings wrong. It does make it hard when you're going to dinner at a friends and you have to navigate 80 KM/H roads :(
...Just a rant I guess
cerewa
10-14-06, 02:42 PM
if your friends ask you where they should live, tell them, somewhere that's accessible by bike from downtown. Of course, if they really don't want to be told not to live out in the suburbs, there's nothing you can do about that.
Chris L
10-14-06, 03:09 PM
So, for anyone who doesn't know, Calgary is growing like a weed. Some people say it will have the population of Toronto within 15 years(don't really know about that). This of course has caused massive spikes in house rates. Right now, the average price for a standard single-family dwelling is around $330,000+.
Is that all? Geez, even allowing for the exchange rate, you'd be lucky to get a single room apartment for that here (one just went for $17 million). When they said the Gold Coast had the third least affordable housing in the world, they weren't kidding.
Dahon.Steve
10-14-06, 08:37 PM
So, for anyone who doesn't know, Calgary is growing like a weed. Some people say it will have the population of Toronto within 15 years(don't really know about that). This of course has caused massive spikes in house rates. Right now, the average price for a standard single-family dwelling is around $330,000+. Well, that realy bites it for guys like me, who only make around 31,000 a year. Having a mortgage would be absolutely impossible. On a similiar note, the city just did a study that said there are currently more than 740,000 vehicles on the road in our fair city. With a pop. of just over a million, that's A LOT of cars and trucks. Also, there doesn't seem to be a vision for building sustainable housing, I.E. NOT the suburbs. They are still building the tradional way, as if nothings wrong. It does make it hard when you're going to dinner at a friends and you have to navigate 80 KM/H roads :(
...Just a rant I guess
I used to make 30K a year just 7 years ago so I know where you're coming form.
The last four years have seen real estate prices go right through the roof in the US and I had no idea the same thing happened in Canada. The price of single family homes in New Jersey have past 300K this year and there there's nothing you can find at 290K or less. I estimate you would need monthly income of about $7,500.00 USD per month to hold down that 330K mortgage. Even at twice your salary, you could not afford that home! You would have to make at least 75K a year and your wife would need to make that much to keep from being house broke! Trust me. I feel your pain.
I really don't know people are doing it? Seriously. A 330K home is not much of a home at all and I see plenty of homes selling at 390-460K! It's insane and getting worse.
There's no question in my mind, new building requirements for motorcar parking are driving up the costs. I see luxury condo's having six or seven story parking garages right next to the buidings. These huge garages add tremendously to the overall cost of each unit. Unfortunately, what else can you do? The price of homes require two high income earners or you'll need to be a doctor.
Chris L
10-14-06, 08:45 PM
I really don't know people are doing it?
A combination of the increasing gap between rich and poor, and the availability of tax deductions for "negatively geared" rental properties. These days anyone with a bit of money behind them will get financed to the hilt to buy a second or third property, just to rent it out. Any interest payments are claimed as a tax deduction, as are "paper" expenses such as depreciation. Once these people entered the market, prices were driven up toward the ridiculous level they are at now.
I did some calculations when moving a couple of months ago and worked out that the interest alone on buying an apartment would exceed what I'm paying in rent. Keep an eye on the market over the next 4-5 years. I'm expecting a big interest rate hike eventually as fuel prices continue to rise (as they will). Eventually you'll see people selling up cheap just to get out of their mortgages, and that's when some sanity will start to gradually return to housing prices. Until then, you're better of just continuing to pay the rent.
chephy
10-14-06, 10:21 PM
Alberta is the Texas of Canada. I prolly wouldn't want to live there...
Interestingly I know someone from Calgary who said he cyclocommuted there because of an "extensive pathway network" - and is afraid to do it in Toronto because of traffic. But I would suspect this "network" (typical MUPs, I suppose with a 20 km/h speed limit, blind corners and a mix of users?...) in addition to having the usual problems of MUPs doesn't go to the suburbs.
(Just looked up Calgary's municipal cycling webpage. All they talk about is the pathways, it appears. Kinda pathetic, if you ask me, but probably typical if not better than what most municipalities in North America do.)
Edit: oops, there is actually more info on their site than that. Good... still, the emphasis on the use of bike-specific facilities is pretty heavy.
guruguhan
10-15-06, 10:41 AM
I lived in Calgary up until I was 17 and went to university. Between 14 and 17 when working downtown I'd use the cycling paths to get from my suburban house in Bonavista (S.E) to downtown. Never a problem and always enjoyed the ride. Peaceful and you get to go through some of the many peaceful neighborhoods the city has to offer. Its one of the things I miss after moving here to Toronto (not putting down T.O).
chephy
10-15-06, 12:35 PM
Is the 20 kmph (yep, that's 12 mph, our American friends reading this thread!) speed limit enforced?
guruguhan
10-15-06, 02:34 PM
I would doubt that it would be enforced in areas where it was sensible to go at higher speeds. On paths that were along the river I doubt one (with good conscience) would go at high speeds due to children playing, roller-bladers and the like. Calgary is unlike Toronto in so much as it is a more suburban life (slower pace). It isn't for everyone.
Driving on the other hand was different (traffic was much different 10 years ago), and Calgary has wide roads and low volume on the road (then - I've heard the roads are congested due to the massive growth).
rajman
10-15-06, 10:22 PM
If you are willing to deal with alternative living arrangements, you can totally afford to buy a house. I was able to purchase a property (with help from my parents for the down payment) costing 260 k with an income of about 12k/yr (I was working minimum wage for starbucks at the time). How did I/do I manage - roommates. To this day we still get more rent than the mortgage. Calgary just has it's head up it's ass when it comes to legalising acessory apartments and so on.
BTW Calgary's bike specific infrastructure is pretty good (if crowded at peak times). The regular streets are not so good - but if you take the time to figure out your routes you can get around just fine.
jeff-o
10-16-06, 08:16 AM
I don't suppose moving is an option?
My wife and I just bought a 1500 sf. house with 1/4 acre of land in the middle of the city for $219,000 CAD...
0_emissions :=)
10-16-06, 09:50 AM
Is the 20 kmph (yep, that's 12 mph, our American friends reading this thread!) speed limit enforced?
Last year, a little girl and an old lady got hit by guys one bikes. Well, the boys were out with their radar guns like a swarm, lemme tell you. I used to rida a daily stretch about 8 km long before I moved. Most people are cool, and don't treat it like their own personal racetrack. However, their are a couple guys out there(even one guy on those skis w/ wheels!)
chephy
10-16-06, 10:01 AM
So either those paths are unsafe at anything over 20 kmph or the laws are stupid. Yet the Calgarian bike advocates are trying to push cyclists to use the "network".
0_emissions :=)
10-16-06, 10:31 AM
I think i'm sticking around because a: I want to try to lead by example, and show people that there is a bertter way to live your life & design communties and b: I still love it here. I have good friends, some family, and a good job that I love. It would seem like too much to move right now, unless it was for double the income and half the house prices. This city has a lot of potential, but people need to realize that when the oil dries up, so will much of the economy here. There are folks here who want to change some things, and there is some progress, but like the saying goes, it'll have to get worse before it gets better...
GGDub
10-16-06, 03:20 PM
I got lucky and bought a place just before the latest westward mass migration. One of our stipulations for a house was that it had to be close enough to DT for me to ride everyday rain, snow, shine or minus forty degrees. Although I think the price increase was obscene (still waiting for the not so fun ride down the other side), all I need to do is look up Vancouver house prices and I feel a whole lot better.
Calgary has a surprising amount of bike commuters, in fact I wish I could find the study, but it was right up there with T.O. on a per capita basis as far as daily bike commutes go. For day to day errands though, I'm sure we lag way behind.
T.O. is more urban which = more bike friendly but when you factor in the immense suburbs of the GTA it begins to look a whole lot more like Calgary.
Although I rant a lot about Calgary's moronic city council, I must admit they do have the sprawl problem/weak public transit/car dependency thing on their radar, just no political will or money to do anything about it. The free market may actually force the issue since parking costs in DT Calgary are some of the highest in N. America, higher than Los Angeles and T.O., couple that with higher costs of living and I think I'll be seeing many more people on the path this winter. (Saw close to 20 this morning and its been snowing all day).
GGDub
10-16-06, 03:27 PM
So either those paths are unsafe at anything over 20 kmph or the laws are stupid. Yet the Calgarian bike advocates are trying to push cyclists to use the "network".
To be honest, the network's pretty good. Aside from some areas in the southeast (major industrial parks), you can pretty much get anywhere on quiet streets or MUP's. Last summer I was able to ride from the SW all the way to the airport on MUP's and it was 15 min faster than if I'd driven (it was rush hour). The only place the MUP is really bad is right near Eau Claire because in the summer time, there is a gawdawful amount of people and that's precisely where those accidents happened. I've always avoided that area simply because its way fast to blast through downtown streets because one doesn't have to worry about peds, roller bladers, little kids on training wheels etc.
One other thing, I've had very little incidents with drivers here and I ride on the road alot (over 8,000 km last year). Based on the ranting I've seen about Toronto drivers, I think Calgary drivers are actually pretty good.
0_emissions :=)
10-17-06, 04:26 PM
To be honest, the network's pretty good. Aside from some areas in the southeast (major industrial parks), you can pretty much get anywhere on quiet streets or MUP's. Last summer I was able to ride from the SW all the way to the airport on MUP's and it was 15 min faster than if I'd driven (it was rush hour). The only place the MUP is really bad is right near Eau Claire because in the summer time, there is a gawdawful amount of people and that's precisely where those accidents happened. I've always avoided that area simply because its way fast to blast through downtown streets because one doesn't have to worry about peds, roller bladers, little kids on training wheels etc.
One other thing, I've had very little incidents with drivers here and I ride on the road alot (over 8,000 km last year). Based on the ranting I've seen about Toronto drivers, I think Calgary drivers are actually pretty good.
Yeah, I tend to avoid eau claire as well. It's almost so slow thru there you might as well unclip and walk it. The pathways overall are good here, i'll agree with ya on that one.There needs to be a heckuva lot more effort being put to the suburbs, however! I don't want to sit here and rant on about them(the 'burbs), so i'll stop here. ;)
chephy
10-17-06, 05:36 PM
One other thing, I've had very little incidents with drivers here and I ride on the road alot (over 8,000 km last year). Based on the ranting I've seen about Toronto drivers, I think Calgary drivers are actually pretty good. Glad to hear that. I certainly would not say that Toronoto drivers are pretty good. Although it depends on what you expect, I suppose.
rajman
10-17-06, 09:43 PM
Having cycled extensively in both cities let me just say - the two cities (calgary and TO are different).
The suburban parts of each city are hell on wheels - they both suck period.
The MUP's in calgary are both more extensive and nicer to ride on than the ones in toronto.
Toronto city streets are much nicer to ride on than Calgary city streets
My average speed in Calgary is higher than in Toronto - because I'm mostly on MUP's that require no stops.
Calgary has much fewer 4-way stops in residential areas, which is waaay better than the 4-way stops in toronto (unless you blow them, but that's an Advocacy topic :)
Toronto is more flat.
Calgary has more ice.
Either city is pretty good for cycling, but people are more receptive to utilitarian cycling in Toronto. And there are a lot of LBS's who will do repairs and tune ups while U wait in toronto (In calgary I've been told to wait a week - that's not OK if you are using your bike to get around - and no they don't have a loaner for the week that you're waiting)
bragi
10-17-06, 11:24 PM
Calgary is an oil town, isn't it? Lots of easy money floating around due to the oil sands? Sort of like a Canadian Houston? Full of sprawl, hellish roadways designed for nothing but cars, and dotted with strip malls? Housing developments that make owning a car an absolute necessity? Coincidence? I think not. Actually, I've never been to Calgary, but I've been to Houston, and if your town is anything like that urban anus, I'd move away tomorrow. Have you considered Vancouver or Victoria? Those places are really nice, esp. for car-free life. (I'll move to one of those two places myself if my government doesn't change soon.) They're not cheap places to live, true, but then Calgary isn't cheap, either, and if you live in a place where you don't really need a car, you can apply the savings to other things. Just a thought.
GGDub
10-18-06, 09:31 AM
Thankfully Calgary is nothing like Houston (I've been there for work and urban anus is an understatement). Its got a long way to go before being considered bike-friendly, but when compared to Houston, it looks like freakin Amsterdam. Its better compared to Denver.
Rajman - The service wait boils down to the labour shortage problem and the fact that I think the city is ripe for another bike shop (since I moved here from the GTA 3 stores have closed down and zero new ones have opened). Give Campione a try on 11th ave, they're smaller and cater to the messenger crowd. The upside to the labour shortage problem is that Drive-Thru's are closing down!
Calgary also suffers from the need to look hardcore, which means most of the cyclists here rule out utilitarian cycling because they need 20 min just to get geared up.
If I had the choice (and the money), I'd definetly move to Vancouver, but my salary would be cut in half and in order to live anywhere near work, I'm looking at housing prices exceeding $800,000 ($400,000 in Calgary). In the meantime, I'm willing to become one of the only people here riding an xtracycle.
Spaceman Spiff
10-18-06, 03:29 PM
I estimate you would need monthly income of about $7,500.00 USD per month to hold down that 330K mortgage. Even at twice your salary, you could not afford that home! You would have to make at least 75K a year and your wife would need to make that much to keep from being house broke!
Are you sure? My parents own a $200,000+ house, fully paid off, and their combined income is under $30k a year (they're retired, and have only worked at minimum wage jobs their entire lives). If you are able to save enough money to make a significant downpayment, it should be possible to get a mortgage and pay it. Of course first you would have to buy a smaller older house, then a slightly better one, and work your way up to the 330k one. I'm not saying it's easy to become a homeowner, but I don't think it's that hopeless either.
0_emissions :=)
10-20-06, 02:56 PM
I've lived in both cities myself(calgary and vancouver) and its a hard call to make on where I would live. Vancouver is definately better in terms of it's cultural environment, commitment to alternative transportation, and overall city feel. The house prices in Van do suck, but they have more than 2 million with a possibility of build-out within a generation, with projected immigration of more than 275,000(i guess we could tear the mansions down!)
Calgary is struggling, I think. It's trying to find it's identity, and yeah, trying to make itself seem bigger or world-class. the attitude here is definately siding with oil, but the green party of Canada had the biggest jumps of any party last election. I think that with a real positive role model for environmentalism, there could be some good things coming out of this city. It starts with responsible representation in Edmonton. Get a party who can think up some great ideas, work out some issues, and maybe think a little bit more about alt. transportation!(high speed line from Calgary to Edmonton, anyone?)
Overall, if I had the money, it would be Vancouver, if things can turn around here, i'll stick around here for awhile.:) ....Maybe....;)