Living Car Free - problem with parents

I recently turned 17. I'm going to take the test for my license on the 20th, and shortly thereafter my mother wants to get me a car for the job I'm (likely) to get. It's only 6 miles a way, mostly on a single street, which is highly trafficked but has one of the biggest shoulders I've ever seen. I thought it'd be a great opportunity for me to cycle there, but my mom is pretty headstrong on buying me a car.

Mom: "If you have a job, you need a car!"
Me: "It's only 6 miles away. I'd probably get there in less than 20 minutes."
Mom: "What would you do in the snow?"
Me: "Get snow tires."
Mom: "*Mumbles about snow tires*..."
Me: "It's south jersey, we never get any snow here anyway, and if we do it melts the day it fell. Besides, would you rather me entrust my life to two tons of metal on icy roads?"
Mom: "Where would you put it?"
Me: "On a bike rack."
Mom: "WHY DO YOU HAVE TO BE SO DIFFERENT?!"
Me: "Why would you ask me that?"
Mom: "You're always so difficult."
Me: "I'm going to fail the driver's test on purpose."

I hope it's pretty clear that outlining the benefits of cycling rather than driving isn't going to mean much to her. I honestly think she doesn't want me to depend on a bike to get around because she thinks it's dorky. I mean, she even berates me about the fact that I wear a helmet and a reflective suit?

My dad is more supportive, or just indifferent, can't really tell.

Either way, I love the idea of living car-free. It's such an economic, healthy and just plain sensible way to live. Plus with me going to college in a year I don't want to plunk down thousands of dollars on something I don't need/want/can't drive.

Any suggestions/similar stories?

i don't know what to tell you man; parents can be rough sometimes.

i mostly just wanted to say that you have a killer username. but if you're 17, you were like 5 when they broke up... that's awesome!

Wow - so much sense in one so young. Stick to your guns. One problem I see in many recent college graduates is a crushing debt burden. Anything you can do to make college more affordable, including avoiding expenses you don't need, is a big positive.

I wish my kids had your attitude. For young people, cars are quite a burden. You need a car to get to work, but pretty soon you really have to have a job to pay for the car. That makes it more difficult to do the things that make your youth a joy... like travelling abroad, for instance. It's a form of slavery really.

shortly thereafter my mother wants to get me a car for the job I'm (likely) to get.

Well, there you go, sounds like a problem solved. If it's your moms who's footing the bill, I say let her if it'll give her peace of mind. You can just keep on biking to work and let that sucker sit in the garage. Mom will have the reassurance of knowing that you have a car to fall back on when it snows, and you'll have the pure, unadulterated pleasure of bike commuting. Win-win situations are all about compromise. PLUS, if it truly turns out that you hardly ever use the car enough to make it worth it, mom can sell it and get her investment back.

I'm not car free, but I enjoy this forum learning tips & tricks...

Your mom wants you to conform it's pretty apparent. The reasoning whith the placement of the bike seem like less of a problem than a vehicle. You won't have to pay tickets, insurance is high for a first time driver.

When I was 17 I had four cars my mom couldn't even use the garage. I received a warning & had to sell my beloved VW bug; because the city & especially subd. wouldn't allow un-registered vehicle outside. Your mom should be greatful.

If it's any consolation, I'm 49, car-free for seven years and still get that sort of thing from my parents.

The key thing I read is that she thinks it looks dorky. Translation: "All the other mothers will think I've done a bad job parenting and raised a weirdo." In other words, she's embarassed. Not much you can do about that. She's the one with issues surrounding trying to live up to her perceived expectations of her peers.

Well, I'm guessing about that, based on my parents. They were absolutely horrified when there was a big picture of me on my bike in the Sunday paper along with an article about car-free commuting. Worse, their neighbor pointed it out to them!

If it keeps peace in the house, let her buy you the car. For yourself, keep riding your bike and live up to your expectations of yourself, not of others.

And stay out of the paper. :)

Hmm, you're going to college and the parents have money to burn? Outstanding. Forget the job, forget the car, double up on the academics. Pick a major with good income potential. Graduate in four years. Find employment. In an uncertain world, that's still a winning strategy.

See you are going about this all wrong.

I would imagine that at 17, this might be some sort of start job? ie. not a huge paying one yet. So break it down. Make a nice spreadsheet outlining the money you will be getting, minus taxes. Factor in the cost of a car, and insurance (you could get a pretty good ballpark). Then factor in gas+upkeep. And then show them the bottom line.

Then you can explain how that is money that could be invested to help you become financially independent sooner.

Of course I just noticed she wants to buy you the car. Well heck, let her, as long as it isn't costing you anything. Heck you may even like it occasionally if the weather was really horrible or something. Otherwise it just won't get used.

-D

If you have to pay for parking, insurance, repairs, maintenance tolls, tickets, gas and COLLEGE, then remain car free.

Three of my friends never finished college after buying cars. Don't be one of the many.

"I'm going to fail the driver's test on purpose."

And that is where you lost your credibility. But, this is typical for a 17 year old. Try to get into mom's shoes. It may have more to do with mom thinking you will not bother going to work when it gets cold, wet, snowy, etc... She wants to ensure that you will be responsible and get to work on time every time. Parenting teenagers is exhausting no matter how good and right you think you are. If you speak as an adult and speak to her fears you are more likely to get what you want.

I live in south jersey as well, and making statements like we never get any snow also ruins your credibility with mom. We do get snow...sometimes 3 inches, sometimes 30 inches. You just never know. Two tons of metal on icy roads is a reality. Would you rather be in the two tons of metal or be hit by it? This is probably what mom is thinking.

Teenagers tend to make the all or nothing statements. Life is so dramatic to them. But adults know better. Well most of them. The best way to make your case is to not overstate it, address the negatives, address her fears, and be considerate of her opinion. You did none of that.


Here is a start....

Hi mom I know you are concerned with me being able to get to work on time and safely. You feel that a bike is not a reliable source of transportation especially in inclement weather. I had those concerns too. I know other bike commuters who successfully deal with these issues and often times it is simply a matter of having the proper equipment like studded snow tires. In fact, thinner tires have better traction in wet snow. Go figure! .....etc...

If you behave like a rational person who has thought of all the issues and can address them in a coherent manner, you are more likely to be treated with respect. Mom may still completely disagree with you anyway, but ranting and making exagerated statements is almost a guarantee that she will disagree. The best chance you have is to speak to her like a mature adult.

"WHY DO YOU HAVE TO BE SO DIFFERENT?!" If we're talking about loss of credibility, mom loses it right there. People who are embarassed to be different just because it's different have certainly not surpassed the maturity level of a 17-year-old. Not in the peer pressure department anyway.


I mean, she even berates me about the fact that I wear a helmet and a reflective suit? slowandsteady, someone is talking about mature adults who know better. Hello-o-o... mature adu-u-ults?! Nope, don't see any.

To the topic. As far as I'm concerned, people can only force me to buy stuff if they are paying for it. So if mom's paying for the car - excellent, she can buy it, why not? Her money, her present. You can't be forced to use it. However, if somebody tried to convince me to drop a large chunk of money on something I don't need and something that will require smaller chunks of money being thrown at it regularly... well, let's just say it wouldn't work.

I don't know what kind of job you're going to get, but unless you're exceptionally lucky, it likely isn't going to pay a whole damn lot. No need to spend it on something you don't need.

Stand to your principles but don't fail your driver's test on purpose.

All seriousness aside, tell after she goes through the hassle of buying a car, you'll have to go through the hassle of selling it to be able to afford the expenses.

It would be much easier if she just gave you the money up front. Then you could spend it on cycling gear.;)

We have 4 son's who all when their own way. It's hard for some
parents to let go of their children so be patient with your mom.

My suggestion is to go quietly on your own way always making
sure that you never cause your parents any embarassment or
grief. That is all YOU can do. Love your mom & dad while
you move on.

In time they will come to respect your choices even if they
do kibitz you about them once in while. You are a smart
young person for not wanting a car or all the expense of
owning one. Way to many young people start their lifelong
debt with that first car.

All that said, It is VERY important to get that drivers license
for your benefit. YOU NEED THAT OFFICIAL STATE DOCUMENT
TO SUPPORT YOUR IDENTITY. That is todays world.

I would wait till your 18 to get your drivers license at least in michigan it is less of a hastle I got mine when I was 18 and only been driving for 2 years geuss my age. I would go ahead and let her get the hunk of steel a really crappy hunk of steel. I know I had a hard time with employers giving me jobs because. They would say do you have a car I would say no then the conversation ended there. Ounce I said yes at other interviews then they consider me. Its hard being young because nobody thinks your responsible plus no car on top of it makes it harder.

So, let her buy the car. Let it sit in the driveway. Ride past it on your bike.

Maybe compromise and drive the car on the 4 bad weather days you get this winter. Studded tires for bikes are expensive. :rolleyes:

Studded tires for bikes are expensive.Oh baloney! I just bought a set of Nokians in 700x32 for $50 each. Yeah, compared to some cheesy rubberband bike tires, it's a lot, but compared to decent ones, it's a 20-25% premium. BFD.

And they'll last a lot longer than the 38 gallons of gas you could buy for the same amount (based on prices here in town yesterday.)

Does your mom want to buy the car, and insure it, and maintain it, and fuel it?

Stand to your principles but don't fail your driver's test on purpose.

i wasn't serious about failing it. she knows i wasn't serious about failing it.
if i do, it's totally unintentional. i have absolutely no perception in those damn things.
the only reason i said it was because she started saying ridiculous things, so i thought i would join the fun.

slowandsteady: ignoring the unwarranted condescension, i understand what you mean. but trust me, this hasn't been our only conversation about it, and i give up rational discussion sometimes because i get frustrated with her logic. she's just opposed of the whole idea of bicycle transportation, and knowing her, i really doubt she cares about the how and why.

i think you're probably right about her being embarassed tsl. it's funny how moms can have such convoluted thinking sometimes, i would think she would be proud of me. i guess it's all pretty subjective. :rolleyes:

becnal: she wants to buy it, but nothing else. that'd all be up to me. i pointed out to her before how all the burden of expenses will be on me, on a slightly above minimum wage job.

i would let her buy me the car. it'd be cool to visit some of my friends in north jersey, or go drive my bike to a great trail. but we're far from rich, and i'm going to have to get a dorm with my college expenses, and i'd rather use the car money towards something useful, like an education.

either way, the purchasing of the car is really up to me. if my mom gets the message that i really won't drive it, then she's not gonna get it. i just don't want to resort to fighting with her to get what i want though.

whatever happens, thanks for the support everyone! :)

Wow........My parents would have jumped up and down with glee
at the prospect of me NOT wanting to drive at 16 or 17 !
Shortly thereafter I wrecked thier car and they didnt let me drive for a
year after that anyway......
But, as a parent, I can see some who parents think one of the first things
on the checklist of neccassary 'adult responsibilities'(?) is a car. I dont know
how you would change their view of that if that is what it is, but I can assure
you that car ownership is a costly pain in the backside and one of he worst
investments a person can make. You are throwing money at something you
will never get a return on. I would try to reason with them more.....Once the
novelty of having a car wears off it is like having a ball & chain that sux money
out of your wallet. I am 47 years old and eagerly await the day I can be completely
car free again.
Good luck !

I'm 23 and I'm fairly happy I got a driver's license when I was your age, caapnjazz. I agree with you that your mom is kind of silly for wanting to buy you a car. But life is easier as a non-car-owner sometimes when you have the option to drive your parents' car, U-Haul's car, PhillyCarShare's car, whatever.

but just remember that as soon as you get your license and they think you aren't a danger to yourself and others on the road, they're going to start sending you on errands (and if you have a younger sibling, you're probably going to be driving them around a lot). :P

i agree that getting a license is good, though, even if you don't use it every day.

Do what you want about the car or bike, but GET YOUR LICENSE. It doesn't matter if you use it or not, the insurance companies have gone from just calculating your 9 years from age 16 to actually checking when you started driving to drop your rates to the lower bracket.

OK, here's a shot in the dark. Show her the statistics for how young men die. I think until you're in your mid 30's the most likely cause of death for men is car accident.

Back in my youth, we all looked forward to drivers license day with great anticipation. Today, I know several 17 year old guys who don't have a license and don't plan to get one soon. There is a slight change in the culture. I think we are all more aware of the responsibility that comes with driving a car and the risks that go with it.

Edit: BTW, has she looked at what it will cost for insurance? At your age, you are assumed to be a bad insurance risk (rightfully or not).

Here's an option, get your license and ask your mum to put the car money into an account that you can use at short notice but will still earn you a little interest. Promise her that if you ever need a car you will draw from the account to hire one.

That will at least cover you if for some reason you do want to go visit friends far away without having to shell out for a car that will otherwise sit unused. Don't forget, the car you hire will probably be nicer and more expensive that wat you would typically buy as a first car (unless your family is wealthy).

Here's an option, get your license and ask your mum to put the car money into an account that you can use at short notice but will still earn you a little interest. Promise her that if you ever need a car you will draw from the account to hire one.

That will at least cover you if for some reason you do want to go visit friends far away without having to shell out for a car that will otherwise sit unused. Don't forget, the car you hire will probably be nicer and more expensive that wat you would typically buy as a first car (unless your family is wealthy).

Excellent idea. A car is not in investment, unless you're a taxi driver. If you mom has any sense left in her head, she will realize that riding a bike and saving the money that would normally go to a car is the absolute wisest thing you can do. Bravo for realizing this so early in life.

Wow! This is the opposite of my life. When I was your age, I used everything at my disposal to get my parents to buy me a car.

Two points to make to your parents:

1

the accident rate is much higher when a teenager owns a car.

Having a car when in college is a sure-fire way to nuke your grades.

Paul

Having a car when in college is a sure-fire way to nuke your grades.
Living on campus is a pretty good deal if you can swing it.

It's possible that this represents a large capital asset that you won't receive if you don't agree to receive it.

In other words, think of it this way: your mother is offering you money in the shape of a car. For her own reasons, she might not offer you this asset in a more liquid form. However, if you take the car, let her pay the bills on it, keep it topped up with all the right fluids, and never drive it, you can sell it after your first year of college to pay for the bike of your dreams, a month abroad, or whatever.

Or perhaps your mother can be persuaded to put the money for the car into an account for your transportation needs, if you can spreadsheet out the price of all bike parts, public transport, 15 taxi days a year, vs. car ownership. But it sounds like your mom operates on a different level, where she'll happily buy you a car and leave you to purchase the occasional new chain and inner tube, because that's what she wants to do. People are strange, and none stranger than our immediate relations.

On the other hand, if this elephant is going to cost you money, don't take it. Reading your story it sounds like she'd probably cover insurance and the like, in which case, you are uncontaminated by holding this strange metal and rubber capital asset.

Life is compromises and negotiations.

YOU: Mom, I realize you want me to drive a car like everbody else. But please realize that at this point in my life a car is unneccessary. It's also expensive and I will likely not even take it to college. I'll make you a deal, You buy me a car and buy yourself a bike, I promise to drive the car as many miles as you ride your bike.

So, either she won't ride the bike, and you will both see that the car and bike need to be sold. Or she'll get excited about cycling and ride hundreds of miles each month and in doing so she'll realize how great a mode of transport it is and feel better about selling the car. If she actually is game for this compromise, you will both have greater insight into each other's point of view. However, from your descriptions, it sounds like your mom will just call you "difficult" or "different" again when you suggest it.

good luck either way, but it certainly sounds like it would be a huge waste of money.

my 17yr old nephew only pays for gasoline for his car, and even that is a big expense. He works but even a fillup every other week is a noticable chunk of his paycheck. His job is only 6-7 miles away from home. Unfortunately, my sister is one of the "you're MUCH safer the bigger car that you're in" and she's always concerned about "all the crazies out there" so she's not too keen on the idea of cycling on "car" roads.

If it's your moms who's footing the bill, I say let her if it'll give her peace of mind. You can just keep on biking to work and let that sucker sit in the garage.

I'd say that's false economy. If Mom can afford the car, the money is still better spent on education.

I understand her feelings. She has this image of you sliding under a truck or something. She's invested 17 years of her life into you.

Is there bus service that will get you there in bad weather. Not that you have to use it, but that it's there to serve as a back up. Are taxi's practical on the rare day you need it?

She will worry till you have a safe established track record of bicycle commuting. And likely she will worry then. This is one of the fights of growing up.

But, as a bicycle commuter who has been commuting since I was your age. I wish I could reassure her that you will probably do fine.

Mom: "What would you do in the snow?"
Me: "Get snow tires."
Mom: "*Mumbles about snow tires*..."
Me: "It's south jersey, we never get any snow here anyway, and if we do it melts the day it fell. Besides, would you rather me entrust my life to two tons of metal on icy roads?"

Where do people get the illogical idea that cars are safer than bikes in the snow? If they could see my stepson comatose in the ICU for 30 days after his car spun out on ice, they would know that a car is the last place you want to be on a wintry day. If you do slide on a bike, chances are good that your injuries will be slight to none.

I don't think you'll need special tires for the winter. Although I use them and they're nice to have, they're not a necessity. I got along without them for a couple winters in Michigan. It's up to you, of course. There really is no such thing as "snow tires" for a bike AFAIK. Studded tires are fantastic on ice and hard pack snow, but not much help on regular snow and slush. With or without them, winter riding is practical for most people who give it a fair try.

There is a story about a teacher asking his student.
"Why don't you ever do your homework?"

"I have a job". Was the reply.

The teacher asked
"Why do you have a job?"

"To pay for my car". Said the student.

"Why do you have a car?"

With a look of exasperation the student replied.

"How would I get to work?"

Yeah, but the problem is that his mom isn't going to pay for the cars upkeep. She's going to buy the thing and then abandon him financially by leaving him responsible for the white elephant. That wouldn't fly with me, uh uh.

This was my situation when in college, my mom thought I was insane (or gay, for some reason the fact I didn't want a car was equated with this in her mind); but my dad got it. I think dads get it more easily because they understand saving money better than any other being, who hasn't had their father follow them around turning off light switches, or woke on a cold winter morning to discover your dad set the thermastat at 50 before going to bed.

I would try to get mom to help you set up a ROTH-IRA with the money she would have spent on the car. You'll be able to buy a second home when you turn 65 with that money, and you won't have the insurance payments and maint. dragging down your budget.

Where do people get the illogical idea that cars are safer than bikes in the snow? If they could see my stepson comatose in the ICU for 30 days after his car spun out on ice, they would know that a car is the last place you want to be on a wintry day. If you do slide on a bike, chances are good that your injuries will be slight to none.

I don't think you'll need special tires for the winter. Although I use them and they're nice to have, they're not a necessity. I got along without them for a couple winters in Michigan. It's up to you, of course. There really is no such thing as "snow tires" for a bike AFAIK. Studded tires are fantastic on ice and hard pack snow, but not much help on regular snow and slush. With or without them, winter riding is practical for most people who give it a fair try.


+1 snow (as opposed to ice) is lots of fun to ride on, and bikes are pretty nimble in it (hardpack is great, powder is tiring but fun, loose hardpack (if you get my drift) is the most challenging - kinda like deep sand or loose gravel). Cars are going to be the major hazard riding in snow. For ice (which is most of what one deals with in Calgary winters) studded tires work for me.

Just going off of your memory of the statistics I would say the insurance companies are correct in young drivers being less safe.

Where do people get the illogical idea that cars are safer than bikes in the snow? If they could see my stepson comatose in the ICU for 30 days after his car spun out on ice, they would know that a car is the last place you want to be on a wintry day. If you do slide on a bike, chances are good that your injuries will be slight to none.

I grew up in Alaska and rode and drove in the snow a fair bit. while I would like you to be right about bikes being safer in winter, I don't think it's really true. Cars are pretty dangerous to their occupants in bad weather because they can go so fast. On the other hand, the whole steel capsule thing really does provide protection. You're usually safe in low-speed crashes with other cars, and moderate-speed crashes if you're in the larger of the two vehicles. Sure, you transfer some risk to people who aren't using a large vehicle, but some people don't care about that part!

I've been a passenger in a car a couple times when the driver lost control on snow or ice at 30mph or so, and people I know have had quite a few similar accidents over the years, all without any significant injury to the people.

Nobody wants to be the cyclist in a car-bike crash.

This might be a dumb question, but why exactly do you need your mom's approval? You're going away to college, so you'll be your own man and if you don't want a car you don't have to have one. Most college students don't have cars anyways, and most of the ones who do don't need them.

Most college students don't have cars anyways

I don't know if this is true universally, but it certainly is not in Alabama.

This might be a dumb question, but why exactly do you need your mom's approval?
Just guessing, but I imagine that 1) He loves and respects his mom, and 2) he is still financially dependant on her even if he goes to college.

I am not anti-car like most here. Tell your mom that you'll buy a car after you get out of college so you can avoid (or at least cut down on) student debt. After you get out of college, all financial ties are cut and you can do what you want :). If your parents are concerned about your long term benefit, they will realize that you are better off spending your money on college. I was able to completely avoid student loans with a combo of scholarships, a part time job, and very low living expenses. Now that I'm 23 if finances are right and I get a car insurnace will be lower than it was at 17.

Just want to say, good for you!
I think there is a lot more peer pressure to get a car when you are 17 than when you are older. I started commuting by bicycle when I was a junior or senior in high school. It was a lot harder to explain to people back then, than it is now. You're on the right track.

Tell her the guys at BikeForums think she's nuts.

:D

I've been a teacher of teenagers for over 15 years. You seem like an intelligent, thoughtful kid who cares about his community and the world. If you were my kid, I'd be very proud. Do what you think is best, ignore her advice but love her anyway. Your mom will complain, but in the end she'll be proud, too.

Just remember, in her mind this is not about you having a bike, it's about her not having to worry that you will wind up as mush under a tractor trailers' wheels. Logical arguments probably will have little effect. Finding a way to resolve her fear will get you riding. The suggestions about agreeing to use the car in bad weather may provide an opening.

Good Luck, Steve

It's only 6 miles a way, mostly on a single street, which is highly trafficked but has one of the biggest shoulders I've ever seen.

CJ, where are you (planning on) commuting from/to? SJ isnt the easiest place to be carfree, but it is doable.

1) Get your license.
2) Keep your bike
3) Remember: regular car drivers have been suckered into thinking they are safer in their cars than outside (ergo, everyone on a bike is going to get killed). Your mom cares about you, but like most moms, is probably convinced you're on the road to ruin -- unlike that fat kid down the street who never walks anywhere and will be a goner at age 65 due to diabetes or heart disease. Try and figure out her real concerns ... if you have to agree to detouring through quieter streets, so be it.
4) I like the spreadsheet idea a lot. Car buyers almost never do the math to figure out how much money it's really going to cost (and I used to sell cars once upon a time...)