Singlespeed & Fixed Gear - Loc Tite?

Which Loc Tite comes with Phil BB's? Red or Blue? Thanks.

Blue. Red won't release unless you heat it up. The blue is considered the standard assembly thread locker. Though I believe phil uses his own brand, it is most similar to blue loctite.

Thank you sir.

do hardware stores usually carry loc tight?

yes

EEEEEEK?
loc tite on a BB?
to lock the BB into the shell?

Usually you use grease, though grease and plumbers teflon tape works really well.

Ask Freddie at citybikes to do it for you, he has this trick.

C'mon Red, you know me. There's actually a reason to use the stuff on Phil BB's, that's why they tell you to use it and give it to you with the thing.Though I'd be interested to hear about this trick.

Phils don't have a lip since they are adjustable. Even though, properly tightened, they shouldn't move in the shell, apparently PW feels that they need the extra insurance.

tricks please.. my roadbike is a untreading machine

Phils don't have a lip since they are adjustable. Even though, properly tightened, they shouldn't move in the shell, apparently PW feels that they need the extra insurance.

Yeah, I actually know somebody that had it happen, so I'm going with the insurance. This is a re-install and I never had a problem with it before.

Blue. Red won't release unless you heat it up.

yes. yes it will. i've red loctited plenty of things. it's just stronger than the blue. with enough muscle you can looses up whatever you've loctited.

on a related note...

i dont' know if someone used loctite on it or not, but in the road frame i just recently got, the bb was stuck in there like crazy. this is how me and my mechanic had to remove it:

we had to bolt the specific bb tool to the cup using various spacers and the crank bolt. then we put the other end of the spindle and i supported the frame. then my buddy put a 3 foot section of old bike tubing over the handly for leverage and we were still pushing the goddam work bench around. it was effing insane. could not believe how tight it was in there. i was sure it was cross threaded or ****ed up in some way.

maybe it is though. i noticed on my way home today that the right hand cup on an entirely different bb had loosened off....

tricks please.. my roadbike is a untreading machine

You might want to try anti-seize instead of grease.

You might want to try anti-seize instead of grease.

too much anti-seize will cause the threads to....seize up:mad:

Loctite® Threadlocker Red
Removable with heat and hand tools

With small fasteners, its possible to remove it without heat if you can get a good grip on it, but you're pretty likely to strip the head or break the fastener.

maybe it is though. i noticed on my way home today that the right hand cup on an entirely different bb had loosened off....


I've been told that loctite should be used on Italian BBs, is this false? I ask because I know Sloppy's road bike is a Ciocc, as is mine, and my Ciocc's BB came undone once after it was re-packed. When I took it back to the shop that did it, the mechanic said that they had forgotten to put something on the threads but I don't know what it was. This was a few years ago.

I've been told that loctite should be used on Italian BBs, is this false? I ask because I know Sloppy's road bike is a Ciocc, as is mine, and my Ciocc's BB came undone once after it was re-packed. When I took it back to the shop that did it, the mechanic said that they had forgotten to put something on the threads but I don't know what it was. This was a few years ago.
Since since the non-driveside cup of italian bbs loosen in the direction of pedaling, in loose bearing bbs, the spinning of the cranks will loosen the cup if it is not installed correctly. Locitite is the easiest way to make sure it doesn't happen.

too much anti-seize will cause the threads to....seize up:mad:

the irony.

yes it is my ciocc.. but the non drive side is fine.. its the drive side that loosens, which makes no sense to me, unless i pedal backwards alot without realizing

yes it is my ciocc.. but the non drive side is fine.. its the drive side that loosens, which makes no sense to me, unless i pedal backwards alot without realizing
I was backwards. The bearing balls will actually try to unscrew the drive side. The balls act like a jockey gear to reverse the torque of the cranks on the cups. Its a little hard to picture.

Right. That is weird.

oh..its a sealed BB, sorry.. but youre right.. i cant picture it

oh..its a sealed BB, sorry.. but youre right.. i cant picture it
In that case, it doesn't make any sense to me. But loctite should fix it.

teflon tape works great too.

teflon tape works great too.

It deteriorates faster though, in my experience. Granted I only used it one time.

I was backwards. The bearing balls will actually try to unscrew the drive side. The balls act like a jockey gear to reverse the torque of the cranks on the cups. Its a little hard to picture.

I'm paraphasing Sheldon Brown here..... as he explains that it is not the bearing friction that makes them unscrew themselves, but a phenomenon called "precession".

"You can demonstrate this to yourself by performing a simple experiment. Hold a pencil loosely in one fist, and move the end of it in a circle. You will see that the pencil, as it rubs against the inside of your fist, rotates in the opposite direction."

He talks about this phenomenon with regard to pedal threads, but I think you're talking about a similar situation on a BB.

Oh darn! I just bought a tube of loctite blue like 3 days ago and forgot that I had the little tube that came with my phil bb (unused). Oh well. Is anyone else using leaky liquid loctite? I assumed it was more of a paste, but what I used came out like water all over my fingers and the table.

yes it is my ciocc.. but the non drive side is fine.. its the drive side that loosens, which makes no sense to me, unless i pedal backwards alot without realizing

It is hard to visualise, but here's what happens: When you pedal, you are pushing the cup in a clockwise direction around in the shell. Picture a small cylander (the fixed cup) inside a big ring (the BB shell) The cylander will rotate counter clockwise, causing it to loosen on an itallian threaded frame. Nothing to do with bearing friction, which is too small to make any difference.

Oh well. Is anyone else using leaky liquid loctite? I assumed it was more of a paste, but what I used came out like water all over my fingers and the table.
That's what blue loctite is like. Surface tension makes it stick to the threads.

It does look like it should be a paste, what with the shape of the tube and all.

I guess I was just put off by the fact that I have seen bike-purpose bolts produced with a dry pasty blue threadlocking substance in a band near the tip of the bolt. I just assumed loctite would be the same kind of paste. Now I know!

It hardens anaerobically (in an absence of air) so store it on its side and it will last for a long time.

It is hard to visualise, but here's what happens: When you pedal, you are pushing the cup in a clockwise direction around in the shell. Picture a small cylander (the fixed cup) inside a big ring (the BB shell) The cylander will rotate counter clockwise, causing it to loosen on an itallian threaded frame. Nothing to do with bearing friction, which is too small to make any difference.
So you're saying that a cylinder rotating in a clockwise direction will put a counterclockwise force on the cylinder?

I guess I was just put off by the fact that I have seen bike-purpose bolts produced with a dry pasty blue threadlocking substance in a band near the tip of the bolt. I just assumed loctite would be the same kind of paste. Now I know!

Loctite comes in a ton of variants, even within the same sub-category (ie: medium strength threadlockers). iirc, you can get "blue" strength loctite as a light-liquid, wicking liquid (will penetrate threads on installed hardware), paste stick, and dry powder. As was mentioned before, it cures anerobically, so if an OEM provided hardware with liquid loctite on it, it would just get all over the packaging. Afaik the dry stuff liquifies under pressure (threading) and then cures when all the air is forced out.

BTW: in order for the bond to be effective, you need one of the materials to be active or to use locking primer. I used to wonder why my aluminum bolts into an aluminum caliper adapter would keep coming out with wet loctite on them ;)

So, wait a sec. I am putting in a sealed Campy Italian threaded BB into my Ciocc, do I use loctite on both the drive and non-drive sides? Sorry if this is a stupid question, this is my first experience with a sealed cartridge BB, thanks.

So you're saying that a cylinder rotating in a clockwise direction will put a counterclockwise force on the cylinder?
*spokesperson*
Well, yes. this funny effect has a name that of course escapes me now... If you put a circular object (your finger) inside a cyclinder (your other fist closed loosely around the finger) and wiggle it around in circles, the friction forces it to turn inthe opposite direction... Which is why pedals are threaded just the opposite way you'd expect, and this is the way that keeps them from loosening. (Next time you change pedals, try holding the spindle of a pedal that's threaded into the arm most of the way, and turn the cranks forward... the pedal unthreads.)

torque induced precession (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Precession)

similar to torque free precession, which incidentally is why we have seasons (well, those of us who arent in florida or socal ;))

edit: i'm ********, the earth precesses, but that's not why we have seasons

So, wait a sec. I am putting in a sealed Campy Italian threaded BB into my Ciocc, do I use loctite on both the drive and non-drive sides? Sorry if this is a stupid question, this is my first experience with a sealed cartridge BB, thanks.
Just the drive side. That side is threaded opposite of a normal (English) BB.

Just the drive side. That side is threaded opposite of a normal (English) BB.

Coolio, thanks.

Which is why pedals are threaded just the opposite way you'd expect, and this is the way that keeps them from loosening. (Next time you change pedals, try holding the spindle of a pedal that's threaded into the arm most of the way, and turn the cranks forward... the pedal unthreads.)
I did some research on precession, so I now understand it. Thanks for the tip. However, according to David Wilson in Bicycling Science, the reason for reverse threading on pedals dates back to the early days of toe clips and track racing. In the event that the pedal bearing froze (tolerances were pretty bad in the late 1800s) the pedal would unscrew rather than break the riders foot. The book seems pretty well researched, so I'm inclined to believe him.

Maybe a combination of both but I'll beleive precession first. Thinking back to memories of what it took to remove a stuck pedal, it'll easily break your foot/leg/spine before it comes off. That doesn't mean they didn't "invent" left threading with that safety reasoning, only that the bike industry is sticking with it because of precession.

You guys are an amazing source of bike knowledge!