Road Cycling - what's with the carbon fiber jargon?

These are terms that i keep reading when a mfg describes their carbon frame....

What does "ultra high modulus mean" ?

what's "advanced monocoque construction"?

These are terms that i keep reading when a mfg describes their carbon frame....

What does "ultra high modulus mean" ?

what's "advanced moocoque construction"?

Ultra high modulus= frames that are not ultra low modulus

Advanced monoque construction= frames that are not standard monoque construction

Well you asked!:D

i think it's just marketing schemes lol

monoque construction = one piece
high modulus = very stiff (so they say). It is short of Young's modulus, a measure of stiffness.

I'm guessing that it has to do with different wrapping and layering techinques, basically a way of trying to make a frame stand out by describing it with cool sounding words and phrases that haven't previously existed. That being said, I prefer the Super Fasterium technology.

Ultra high modulus= frames that are not ultra low modulus

Advanced monoque construction= frames that are not standard monoque construction

Well you asked!:D

Somehow I think I understand what you are saying.:o

it's just marketing-speak and vaporware.

How about 6000 vs. 7000 vs.10,000 something-or-other.

I overheard a Performance Bike manager telling a customer that Fuji's 7000 carbon was better than the 6000 carbon used by Trek. Of course, Performance sells Fuji not Trek.
Does this mean that the 10,000 CF used by Scott is better than the rest?;)

How about 6000 vs. 7000 vs.10,000 something-or-other.

I overheard a Performance Bike manager telling a customer that Fuji's 7000 carbon was better than the 6000 carbon used by Trek. Of course, Performance sells Fuji not Trek.
Does this mean that the 10,000 CF used by Scott is better than the rest?;)


it means a lot of companies use the same material but give it different names.

"monocoque" has practically lost its true meaning when referring to bikes.

"advanced monocoque" usually just means something along the lines of, "it's pretty advanced compared to bikes built out of redwood 2x4's."

The more complicated names used in describing it, the cooler it will sound when you talk about it at Starbucks.

^^^^ Of course .... it has a higher number ;)

You'll hear a bunch of terms thrown about when discussing CF. One is weave, another is modulus and a third might be UTS or tensile strength.

The weave is made up of fibres. Each fibre is actually composed of a certain number of strands. A 1K weave will have 1,000 strands per fibre while a 3K weave will be composed of 3,000 strands. Thus this number can sort of be considered a "density" of carbon strands in a fibre.

For a given modulus of CF, a 3K weave will be three times as heavy as a 1K weave but a structure with a 3K weave will be stiffer than one made with a 1K weave. Note that this does not mean that all 3K structures will be stiffer than all 1K structures as manufacturers will use high modulus CF to achieve in a 1K weave structure what others do using a 3K weave structure.

When considering the material of CF to be used in a structure, an engineer or designer will look at three basic attributes. These are tensile strength, modulus (stiffness) and density. So why would someone choose a lower modulus CF when they can use a higher modulus one, use a lower strand count and still achieve the same stiffness at a lower weight? One word: strength. In actuality, intermediate modulus CF has a much higher tensile strength than high or ultrahigh modulus CF.

CF materials generally have a UTS ranging anywhere between 3 GPa (low strength, low modulus CF) to 4 GPa (medium-strength, ultra-high modulus CF) and all the way to 6 GPa (high-strength, intermediate modulus CF). By comparison, high strength aluminum such as Al 7005 has a tensile strength around 200 MPa or 0.2 GPa. Titanium has a UTS around 900 MPa (0.9 GPa).

Now of course the weave and grade of CF prepreg is just one small part of the equation. The ride quality and strength are chiefly determined by design. A CF structure may not be a homogenous one either. Some layups may have a few layers of high-modulus combined with layers of intermediate modulus. And mixing of portions of the structure of one grade of CF with another section of the same structure with another grade of CF is not uncommon. This process along with directional alignment can be used to tune the properties of the structure.

modulus refers to the likeness of a properties .high modulus means there are more carbon fibers in the composite. it is not specific in number but relative to the current carbon fiber composties. high modulus today may be low modulus tomorrow or irrelevant when nano tube carbon fiber become affordable.

Monoque does refer to one piece meaning they do not use lugs in the manufacture of the frame.they lay out carbon fiber sheets in a mold and wet the fibers with apoxy resin( prepreg) in the compaction process with a bladder to make the final carbon composite that compiles the frame.

The revolutionary jschen bike frame is a quantum leap in weight reduction, weighing in at well under 100 grams. So feathery light that you have to feel it to believe it, it is made of carbon with a wall thickness of just microns. (So thin that the exact method of production is considered a trade secret!) No more epoxy in your carbon bike weighing you down. This thing is as light as it gets. You would think we would have to compromise durability to achieve this sensational advance, but in our testing, with the simple addition of an optional laminate layer, it was also the strongest, withstanding repeatedly being run over by fully loaded 18-wheelers without any damage. No other manufacturer dares submit their frames to this grueling test. And such great performance doesn't have to break the bank. This incredible frame is available at a special introductory price of $100. Available soon in very limited numbers.

Would you like one? I'm accepting $20 deposits that will ensure that you can be the first on your block to ride the jschen frame.

By the way, I just described a graphite pencil drawing of a bike frame with optional laminating. And I didn't lie about anything. $100, and I'm happy to produce one just for you in whatever size you want.

The think the high modulus frames have chromed muffler bearings.

^^^^ Of course .... it has a higher number

"Our amplifiers go to 11" - spinal tap

cut and pasted from the Columbus tubing website:

The composites chosen by Columbus use: High Tensile Strength Carbon Fiber T-700, a material generally used to make parts of the wings and the fuselage of airplanes. It has highly superior mechanical resistance characteristics. It’s the point of departure for every good fiber product (such as on the Link, Muscle, Super Muscle and Carve forks and stays and the XLR8R Carbon tubes) High Modulus Carbon Fiber. It is 10% stronger and 20% lighter than T-700. It is used in addition to T-700 (for example on the forks and stays of Muscle, Super Muscle and Carve) because it combines with the superior mechanical characteristics the former, optimizing resistance, strength and lightness. High Strength Unidirectional Carbon Fiber ET Epoxy, suitable for structures in which an optimal balance is sought between strength and resistance.

The more complicated names used in describing it, the cooler it will sound when you talk about it at Starbucks.

+1 and the more the bike manufacturer will charge for it.

high modulus = very stiff (so they say). It is short of Young's modulus, a measure of stiffness.

..or "elastic modulus", another term for same. (Presumably used by those nefarious mechanical engineers who have no intention of giving Mr. Young his due.) Typically measured in Pounds per Square Inch. A carbon structure with an elastic modulus of 45,000lbs/sq. inch -- I'm thinking of the original Ned Steinberger monocoque electric bass guitar -- would certainly qualify as "high modulus", & is extremely stiff indeed. Damn near indestructable, in my experience. But I'm pretty sure "high modulus" bike parts aren't nearly as "high" as Steinberger basses.

But come to think of it, do any bike manufacturer's list the actual elastic modulus of their carbon parts, or do they just call it "high modulus" & pray you don't request a precise measurment?

I don't really know about all this stuff, but it sure sounds NEATO!!!! :D

I love ultra high modulus, with nanotechnology, which, like "Orange alert", means nothing.
Advanced monocoque construction is better than ******** monocoque construction.
My favorite is "space age", the space age was the 1960s.

If its a buzzword, Argon 18 has it on their frame dropouts.

..or "elastic modulus", another term for same. (Presumably used by those nefarious mechanical engineers who have no intention of giving Mr. Young his due.) Typically measured in Pounds per Square Inch. A carbon structure with an elastic modulus of 45,000lbs/sq. inch -- I'm thinking of the original Ned Steinberger monocoque electric bass guitar -- would certainly qualify as "high modulus", & is extremely stiff indeed. Damn near indestructable, in my experience. But I'm pretty sure "high modulus" bike parts aren't nearly as "high" as Steinberger basses.

But come to think of it, do any bike manufacturer's list the actual elastic modulus of their carbon parts, or do they just call it "high modulus" & pray you don't request a precise measurment?

You're off by a few decimal places. CF structures typically have an elastic modulus of anywhere between 30 to 130 Msi. A low modulus CF is somewhere in the 30 Msi range, intermediates are in the 40 to 50 Msi range and high modulus CF is usually considered something in the mid-50 to 70 Msi range. Ultrahigh modulus takes it to the roof from 85 Msi onwards.

I love ultra high modulus, with nanotechnology, which, like "Orange alert", means nothing.

Actually it does mean something. There is a material difference between IM, HM and UHM CF. Typically as you start to exceed the 50 Msi barrier, you need to use PITCH type CF instead of PAN. These two types of CF are chemically and physically different as is the processes used to make them. PITCH type CF has high stiffness but because its crystal size is larger, it has a lower tensile strength. PAN type CF has very small crystals making it more flexible and giving it less modulus but it can be used to attain higher tensile strength.

Please, it's all "nanotechnology", the word means nothing.

But come to think of it, do any bike manufacturer's list the actual elastic modulus of their carbon parts, or do they just call it "high modulus" & pray you don't request a precise measurment?

I think the second part is the most likely. I've never seen a manufacturer give any real #'s. Uber stiff does not count.

I think the second part is the most likely. I've never seen a manufacturer give any real #'s. Uber stiff does not count.

I prefer the term, "hello, is that Charlize Theron naked?" stiff.

Please, it's all "nanotechnology", the word means nothing.
Actually what I described above has nothing to do with nanotechnology. Nanotech CF is another story entirely but it's essentially creating the fibers at the sub-molecular level. Carbon nanotubes are typically only a few nanometers wide and a few micrometers in length. They are created by arranging carbon atoms into a hexagonal nanostructure.

Carbon nanotubes are typically only a few nanometers wide and a few micrometers in length. They are created by arranging carbon atoms into a hexagonal nanostructure.

but do they do anything to strength of frames? It's all just acteylene torch soot, full of fullerenes.
The terms are being abused by marketers.

are all canadians so full of hate?

but do they do anything to strength of frames?
NT doping of standard CF increases the tensile strength by about 30% (assuming 8% to 10% dope). A pure SWNT structure should theoretically be able to withstand over a hundred times the load of standard CF structure of the same design and about 500 times one made of high-grade steel.



Graphite Crystal = Diamond
CF Std. = Typical standard carbon fibre
MWNT = Multi-Wall Nano-Tubes
SWNT = Single-Wall Nano-Tubes

Graph CF MWNT SWNT Steel
Crystal Std.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tensile Str. - GPa 100 3-7 300-600 300-1500 0.4
Elastic Mod. - GPa 1000 200-800 500-1000 1000-5000 200
Specific Str.- GPa 50 2-4 200-300 150-750 0.05
Specific Mod.- GPa 500 100-400 250-500 500-2500 26
Strain-Failure - % 10 1-3 20-40 20-40 25

I like how they manufacturers talk like this...

Our new ultra high modulus (UHM) carbon fiber (CF) is the most technologically superior (T.S.) proprietary technology (PT) in the world. The stiffness ratio (S.R.) is among the best, along with the fatigue resistance (F.R.) We like using abbreviations (W.L.U.A.) because it makes thing sound cooler (S.C.) All this stuff to make an incredibly smooth ride (I.S.R.).

You're off by a few decimal places. CF structures typically have an elastic modulus of anywhere between 30 to 130 Msi.


I don't doubt you, but the original press release for the Steinberger bass really did explicitly say it had "an elastic modulus of 45,000lbs per square inch". I'm perfectly willing to believe that was just marketing hyperbole...or a misplaced decimal point on their part!

What does the "M" stand for, million?

I don't doubt you, but the original press release for the Steinberger bass really did explicitly say it had "an elastic modulus of 45,000lbs per square inch". I'm perfectly willing to believe that was just marketing hyperbole...or a misplaced decimal point on their part!

What does the "M" stand for, million?

Yep. 45Ksi is pretty low.