Okay, I really like my road bike. This will be my first winter riding and I would like to survive it in one piece, so I need some advice. I have ridden my MTB in the snow in the past, but nothing serious so I am still relatively clueless about snowy riding for any length of time.

I have a 2006 Fuji Finest 1.0 WSD road bike and a 1993ish Trek 830 MTB. The Trek has a set of wide knobbies and a set of 1.25 slicks and a front suspension with the typical MTB triple and 7 speed gearing. The Fuji currently has Contis in a 23c and a compact double. The Trek weighs in around 30 pounds and the Fuji is about 19 lbs. I was thinking about getting cross tires for the Fuji in about a 30 or 33c and just riding that in the snow. Lets just say the Fuji has me sufficiently spoiled and I cannot bring myself to ride the Trek again, unless I plan on doing some true MTBing down some steep hills with giant boulders.

I live in Jersey so we don't often get a ton of snow, but most winters do get snow "storms" dumping under 6 inches at any one time. It often melts within a week or two, so most riding would likely be in slushy, dirty, gravely, salty mush.

All concerns about rust and dirt aside(I have no problem washing my bike daily), what bike should I ride? And, is it a suicide mission to even try to ride a road bike or does having thin cross tires really cut through the mush and down to the pavement?

Okay, I really like my road bike. This will be my first winter riding and I would like to survive it in one piece, so I need some advice. I have ridden my MTB in the snow in the past, but nothing serious so I am still relatively clueless about snowy riding for any length of time.

I have a 2006 Fuji Finest 1.0 WSD road bike and a 1993ish Trek 830 MTB. The Trek has a set of wide knobbies and a set of 1.25 slicks and a front suspension with the typical MTB triple and 7 speed gearing. The Fuji currently has Contis in a 23c and a compact double. The Trek weighs in around 30 pounds and the Fuji is about 19 lbs. I was thinking about getting cross tires for the Fuji in about a 30 or 33c and just riding that in the snow. Lets just say the Fuji has me sufficiently spoiled and I cannot bring myself to ride the Trek again, unless I plan on doing some true MTBing down some steep hills with giant boulders.

I live in Jersey so we don't often get a ton of snow, but most winters do get snow "storms" dumping under 6 inches at any one time. It often melts within a week or two, so most riding would likely be in slushy, dirty, gravely, salty mush.

All concerns about rust and dirt aside(I have no problem washing my bike daily), what bike should I ride? And, is it a suicide mission to even try to ride a road bike or does having thin cross tires really cut through the mush and down to the pavement?

Sounds to me like you want to ride the road bike. Personally, my roadbike hangs in the garage in the winter most of the time. Give me a wide tire and a mountain bike for winter please.

I'm going to be new to winter riding too. Since I'm in Michigan I'm not sure what your situation with ice is in Jersey but I've read about how effective studded road tires can be when you hit either black ice or even if you are just riding atop of compacted snow/snow mush.

You might try icebike.org for some info :)

It all depends what the tires are cutting down to. Pavement with actual traction or just a layer of ice. If you have enough room in the road bike frame there are a fair number of studded 35c tires around. That might be a good comprimise.

I usually ride big-tired MTBs in winter myself.

I have ridden both my mtn bike and my road bike in the snow and I'd have to say that I feel much more comfortable on my mtn bike.

However, my road bike does not have knobby tires or studded tires or anything ... it just has plain ordinary road tires. It cuts through snow just fine, but I felt extremely insecure when it came to more slippery conditions.

My mtn bike has large knobby tires which I flatten from their usual 50 psi down to 30 psi for additional traction ..... exactly like they do with the busses (coaches) that take tourists out to Fraser Island in Australia - Frazer Island is entirely made of sand. That seems to work very well, and I feel fairly comfortable.

My mtn bike is heavy, but that's OK because in the snow I'm not going to be moving all that fast anyway ... and both the snow and the heavy mtn bike give me a good workout! Come spring, when I get back on my road bike again, I feel like I'm flying!! :)

Everything about a mountain bike is better for snow. Wider tires which can be ridden at lower pressures for better traction, lower frame height makes it easier to bail and control in slippery conditions. The handle bar while not as comfortable for long rides as a road handlebar is better for fine control in slippery conditions. It's more likely to survive a crash without being damaged because of stronger frame. Lower gearing when needed in mud or slush. Better brakes for stopping faster when the road surface is not slick. More winter tire choices for your conditions. Ability to run in somewhat muddy dirt trails which thin tire bikes cannot do as well. If it's an older bike that's a plus because then you don't have to worry about it as much as the winter is much harder on a bike.

In the cold snowy weather you can't ride as fast anyway so the speed difference isn't all that much anyway. My advice is to ride the mountain bike when the weather and road conditions are bad and the road bike when the weather and road conditions are more favorable for that bike.

Well, the ice conditions vary widely from year to year. We probably get ice storms far more often than the folks up north, but day time temps hover around 33 degrees for most of the winter. It is so hard to say anything with certaintly since any given winter could get no snow, or a few feet of snow, or three ice storms, or 70 degrees in December, or slush one day, and solid ice the next. Basically anything is possible.

So, how much better are studded MTB snow tires than regular knobbies? Is it worth having a set and can you just ride on them in "normal" conditions or do I have to keep switching them?

So, how much better are studded MTB snow tires than regular knobbies? Is it worth having a set and can you just ride on them in "normal" conditions or do I have to keep switching them?


Studded SNOW tires really don't exist. Well, actually they do but they aren't designed for snow, they are designed for ice, it is the studs that are necessary on ice, but not on snow. YOu can find much more agressively treaded tires for snow, which is what you want.

What i have found however that unless the snow is freshly fallen on previously dry ground, you will be facing the chances of ice. This means that i prefer the studded tires on snow that may have had a chance to melt underneath and turn to ice.

But still if you get a nice fresh fluffy snowfall, then a tire like the Geax Blade is perfect for that, much better than a studded tire. I am in Kansas and we have the exact conditions you describe. It literally has been 79F one day and in the single digits the next.

I have extra wheelsets to make swapping easy. Some guys with carbide tipped studded tires like the Nokians will run them all winter even on bare ground. Personally I could do without the extra resistance as studded bike tires offer up way more than their fair share of resistance.

Mountain bikes do not work that well on the road- They are for offroad. I now have a road bike and the MTB as well as the mountain Tandem. If it is snowing and the roads have snow on them- I will not ride on the road. Too much fear of ice. But if it is snowing- Out comes the MTB or the Tandem and we are off to the hills. Snow riding is Fantastic. Slow and cold but fantastic.

Mountain bikes do not work that well on the road- They are for offroad.

Is that a fact? Come to think of it, i've never seen a mountain bike on the road. :rolleyes:

Some thoughts:
I think you are really going to want full fenders for winter riding. The roads are very often wet, usually with lots of salt any other grime. Fenders will keep this off of you.
I'm guessing you can't fit much wider tire on your road bike with fenders than a 25mm. This eliminates the knobbie cyclocross tires or studded tires.

My suggestion would be to ride your road bike with fenders and your current tires for most winter days. If weather reports are predicting high chances of snow then ride your MTB with knobbies. I think that will give you more control on snow covered surfaces. Narrow slicks can be used with care on slippery surfaces, especially if the roads are salted well and therefore not forzen under the snow.

Craig

This will handle nearly all of your winter bicycling needs. Pugsley (http://www.surlybikes.com/pugsley.html)
If roads are a sheet of ice (like after freezing rain) then studded tires may work better but otherwise the wide low pressure Endomorphs on the Pugsley are incredible. And they roll better than studs if you pump them up. At 30psi my Pugsley is about as fast as my touring bike with 35mm studded tires at 75psi.
For most road conditions a touring or cyclocross bike with studded tires will handle it no problem. For bad off-road conditions or unplowed streets an agressively treaded MTB is probably better.
Craig

I live in Jersey

Where in Jersey are you from?

Is that a fact? Come to think of it, i've never seen a mountain bike on the road. :rolleyes:

Some of us even ride on the road with nasty knobbies on the bike ;)

This will handle nearly all of your winter bicycling needs. Pugsley
If roads are a sheet of ice (like after freezing rain) then studded tires may work better but otherwise the wide low pressure Endomorphs on the Pugsley are incredible. And they roll better than studs if you pump them up. At 30psi my Pugsley is about as fast as my touring bike with 35mm studded tires at 75psi.
For most road conditions a touring or cyclocross bike with studded tires will handle it no problem. For bad off-road conditions or unplowed streets an agressively treaded MTB is probably better.
Craig

Are you trying to sell me a Pugsley? I already have a MTB with knobbies so I don't need a new one.

Where in Jersey are you from?

Salem county...in South Jersey, just outside of Philadelphia.

Mountain bikes do not work that well on the road- They are for offroad. I now have a road bike and the MTB as well as the mountain Tandem. If it is snowing and the roads have snow on them- I will not ride on the road. Too much fear of ice. But if it is snowing- Out comes the MTB or the Tandem and we are off to the hills. Snow riding is Fantastic. Slow and cold but fantastic.

Well, a MTB may not be ideal for the roads, but with slicks my MTB isn't much slower than my brand new road bike. And, I am not afraid to ride in the snow on the street. This is why I was asking what would be better.

I have NO trails anywhere near my home so true mountain biking is out of the question...unless I want to drive an hour first...and I don't. Well actually I am going downhilling this weekend, but that will take about a 2 hour drive to Jim Thorpe, PA. I love mountian biking, but it just isn't practical for regular fitness where I live.

I rode an old English 3 speed all winter in Madison WI for many years. Upright position was probably the most important factor. Different tires are not going to make that much difference. Riding in fresh snow, packed snow, slush, ice is really about assessing traction and then using the right bike handling skills to get through it. Stay in the saddle, don't think you can lean going into corners and easy on the front brake.

Riding through 2-4 inches of fresh snow is really easy. Good traction. Glare ice or really hard packed snow is the worst.

Studded SNOW tires really don't exist. Well, actually they do but they aren't designed for snow, they are designed for ice, it is the studs that are necessary on ice, but not on snow. YOu can find much more agressively treaded tires for snow, which is what you want.

Now I have to disagree with you a bit. I think that the wider studded knobbies (like nokian 240) really are designed for snow. Why else would there be knobs on the tires? Studs don't help much in loose snow, but they certainly don't do any harm either.

What kind of a tire is the best in loose snow? The really most vital thing for a snow tire is width. The wider the tire the better. The knobs have to be far apart, because if the knobs are too close together they will fill up with snow. So the ideal snow tire is really wide with aggressive knobs that are far apart (no studs needed). But still I think that the studded knobbies are designed for snow. Snow and ice!

Giving someone advise on tires for winter is very difficult, since no tire is the best in all conditions, it's all about trade offs. But one thing is for sure, nothing performs as good on ice as studs.

My advise is that you can bike most winterdays on knobbies, or alternate between knobbies and slicks if you like. But I can not recommend that you ride knobbies on icy days, either get studded tires or rest the days that are icy. If you ride knobbies on icy days, deflate them to really low pressure (for maximum contact surface) and be extreemely careful.

No way would I take my skinny tires out there! I wouldn't last around the first corner!

Nice wide mtb tires with some good knobbies are a must for traction.

How about a cyclocross bike with disc brakes? You get the wide frame for big tires and the road bike ride.

How about a cyclocross bike with disc brakes? You get the wide frame for big tires and the road bike ride.

As wonderful as that may be, I just bought my road bike in August. Not really in the market for a third bike.

MTB in the winter. I run Serfas Drifters. Nice slick center with inverted treads on the sides.

Now I have to disagree with you a bit. I think that the wider studded knobbies (like nokian 240) really are designed for snow. Why else would there be knobs on the tires? Studs don't help much in loose snow, but they certainly don't do any harm either.



I never said they would do any harm. I just said that you should look for a tread that was good in snow for snow. Studs are for ice.



So, how much better are studded MTB snow tires than regular knobbies? Is it worth having a set and can you just ride on them in "normal" conditions or do I have to keep switching them?

Are you sure that you can fit 32mm knobbies on your Fuji?

I think you should go with the mountain bike, with fenders, for snow & slush and save the Fuji for dry days. Better control and safety and better dryness with the fenders. You said it didn't snow that much where you live, so you can suffer with the Trek a few times a year. Plus, riding in the snow will probably be so interesting (fun?) that you won't think about your Fuji at all.

Are you sure that you can fit 32mm knobbies on your Fuji?

I think you should go with the mountain bike, with fenders, for snow & slush and save the Fuji for dry days. Better control and safety and better dryness with the fenders. You said it didn't snow that much where you live, so you can suffer with the Trek a few times a year. Plus, riding in the snow will probably be so interesting (fun?) that you won't think about your Fuji at all.

Yes, from what everyone has said, I will ride the MTB with knobbies and fenders in the snow and slush. Thanks!!

I must be crazy. I rode my touring bike two winters, all the way through one year, and I rode on 28mm semislicks. It's a bit sketchy in the serious snow and car snot on roads, but for most (that's an important word!) winter riding on roads, it works great. Light snow and slush and moisture present no problem. Heavier, thicker stuff is difficult to deal with, but not a problem very often (I assume that you have a milder winter than we do up here, seeing as your location field says Jersey). A mountain bike is better in the nasty stuff, but not generally necessary. No matter what you choose, put fenders on it! They are required in winter.

By the way, I'll be riding my new touring bike through at least the middle of January this winter on 1.75" Panaracer T-Servs or Schwalbe Marathons. I anticipate no problems. But notice that I'm going for wider tires! I plan to ride one of those tires year round anyway as my touring and general riding tires, but wider is better for the winter. Wider tires were the only thing I really found myself wishing for last winter (well, except for brakes that worked ;)).

Hi slowandsteady,
Agree w/phantoj. Been commuting yearround for 20 years and reached the conclusion about 15 years ago an mtb w/reduced air is the best for possible slush/snow/black ice, etc. Studded tires are great, but pricey. You can get a set of 2.0 knobbies for under $30.00. Slower and noisey, but you'll feel more confident in trickey situations. I've a roadie set up for commuting, also and use it about 1/2 as much as the mtb during the winter. Both are equipped w/duel sided clipless spd's(wellgo), racks, fenders, bags, lights(NR trailrats w/universal taillights), tools, pump. Cold and dry I use the roadie. Anything else the mtb tho I prefer the ride of the road bike. Winter cycling is the best! Have fun.

A touring or cyclocross bike with 35mm tires and fenders makes a pretty good winter bike especially with studded tires. However I don't think the Fuji Finest is going to have the clearance necessary. Without full fenders you will be throwing alot of road grime at yourself and your bike when riding on snowy roads.
I would ride your road bike with fenders on most days and take your MTB when the weather looks iffy. Check the weather report before leaving in the morning to reduce the chance of being caught unawares.
Craig

slowandsteady,
Try 'em both, experiment. My guess is that you'll end up using the MTB whenever there's something between the rubber and the pavement, be it snow or ice. For me it was a whole new way of riding and there was a little learning curve.

Did a 'poll' yesterday of commuters that I saw in Calgary.

Conditions; -14C (which is a LOT warmer than it was), snowfall of about 3-4 inches, hardpacked by cars on most streets, with glazed ice from tires spinning out at intersections, overlaid with gravel in some spots, MUP is mostly dry with snow patches.

Me - MTB with studded tires and platform pedals

I saw eight other riders/bikes. 8 were on MTB's, about half with studded tires, the other half with knobbies (may have been studded - hard to tell sometimes), no obvious clipless riders (but they may have been reversible pedals). No roadies to be seen anywhere.

BTW hardpack snow is wonderful for riding, low rolling resistance, and a lot more grip than slick ice.

That's not to say that there are no roadies/slicks out there - I just didn't see any on my way to the University.

Did a 'poll' yesterday of commuters that I saw....



Yeah, me too. I saw none. Not one person on a bike this morning, nor will there be on any other cold morning around here. I'm surely not the only person who rides in the cold in this town of 50,000, but I never see anyone else, so I am thinking I might be.

I put together a MTB last year for bad weather - ie. snow. Then I got my old 80s Bianchi that I fixed up as an xcross/commuter and I found that I could ride it in the snow just as well as the MTB. Of course I grew up riding snowy roads to work/school and paper route when I was a kid on my old ten speeds, so perhaps I am just accustomed to riding within the limitations of the conditions. I think the more upright MTB with wider tires (Serfas Drifters here too) is a bit more stable, but I am plenty comfortable on the Bianchi with 700x32 Contacts.

That said, I'm thinking the new 'winter' bike for this year (I am so bad) is gonna be a One-Way with 38s.

I put together a MTB last year for bad weather - ie. snow. Then I got my old 80s Bianchi that I fixed up as an xcross/commuter and I found that I could ride it in the snow just as well as the MTB. Of course I grew up riding snowy roads to work/school and paper route when I was a kid on my old ten speeds, so perhaps I am just accustomed to riding within the limitations of the conditions. I think the more upright MTB with wider tires (Serfas Drifters here too) is a bit more stable, but I am plenty comfortable on the Bianchi with 700x32 Contacts.

That said, I'm thinking the new 'winter' bike for this year (I am so bad) is gonna be a One-Way with 38s.

I agree wholeheartedly. I think maybe if you've never ridden in snow then an mtb might be a good place to start but if you've been doing it for a while, you can find advantages in either set up. I've personally never felt the need to ride anything thing wider than my 700 x 30c knobbies (plus I get to keep wrap fenders on), but that's not to say an mtb isn't more stable, I've just adapted to riding my JTS with thinner tires. The same goes for studded tires, there's no doubt they help, but you don't necessarily need them....

Did a 'poll' yesterday of commuters that I saw in Calgary.

Conditions; -14C (which is a LOT warmer than it was), snowfall of about 3-4 inches, hardpacked by cars on most streets, with glazed ice from tires spinning out at intersections, overlaid with gravel in some spots, MUP is mostly dry with snow patches.

Me - MTB with studded tires and platform pedals

I saw eight other riders/bikes. 8 were on MTB's, about half with studded tires, the other half with knobbies (may have been studded - hard to tell sometimes), no obvious clipless riders (but they may have been reversible pedals). No roadies to be seen anywhere.

BTW hardpack snow is wonderful for riding, low rolling resistance, and a lot more grip than slick ice.

That's not to say that there are no roadies/slicks out there - I just didn't see any on my way to the University.

That's cause you missed me! Although technically I'm riding a cross bike. No slicks though. I still rock clipless, makes a huge difference when plowing through drifts and riding up my hill home (I'm up in Strathcona). I've never had a wipe out that I couldn't clip out before (doesn't mean I still didn't land on my ass though).

Winter seems to be nonexistant in Jersey so far this year. I have yet to try out any bike in the snow. But I will try both...and see which one I crash fastest. I will keep you posted. ;)

I put together a MTB last year for bad weather - ie. snow. Then I got my old 80s Bianchi that I fixed up as an xcross/commuter and I found that I could ride it in the snow just as well as the MTB. Of course I grew up riding snowy roads to work/school and paper route when I was a kid on my old ten speeds, so perhaps I am just accustomed to riding within the limitations of the conditions. I think the more upright MTB with wider tires (Serfas Drifters here too) is a bit more stable, but I am plenty comfortable on the Bianchi with 700x32 Contacts.

That said, I'm thinking the new 'winter' bike for this year (I am so bad) is gonna be a One-Way with 38s.
It's good to hear from the voice of experience. As for stability, that depends on the individual bike as well as if it's MTB or road. The MTB I just bought is a lot twitchier than the last one I had, and almost as shakey in snow as my old Fuji. I'm pretty disappointed with this.

It's good to hear from the voice of experience. As for stability, that depends on the individual bike as well as if it's MTB or road. The MTB I just bought is a lot twitchier than the last one I had, and almost as shakey in snow as my old Fuji. I'm pretty disappointed with this.

I'm disapointed in the Raleigh 29 I just looked at as a potential new winter bike. I have no F'in idea how I would ever get fenders on the thing. I guess if I just wanted one to beat around in the snow, it would be fine, but defintely not for getting out in the slush and the muck of a commute. :( The One-Way is looking better for a new winter bike...or maybe a Puglsey? ;)

You get any snow up there....it seems to have come and gone through here as rain, though temps are supposed to drop big time tonight.

im using two bikes. road and mtb. the mtb will have thick tred or studed tires(depends if i have enough to buy them). im not changing anything about the road bike. road for good conditions, mtb for bad. thats my plan :)