Classic & Vintage - Unbelieveable (and unbelieveably rusty) LBS finds today (Help me ID Italian frame)

One of the LBS's recently changed hands, and the new owner is finally clearing out the back room (a.k.a.: Big Room Of Rust), and I finally got to root through the terrible mess and buy whatever I wished.

Came back with the world's rustiest Raleigh Twenty, a cheap Sakae stem and a bag full of NOS Sturmey-Archer anti-rotation washers.

Those were not the great finds though.

The first of two seperate finds was this rusty, unmarked, ugly, repainted frame. It didn't strike me as unusual until I noted the presence of what was left of a post '77 Nuovo Record groupset - a front derailer (Polished since the photos were taken. Beautiful!), complete Italian-thread NR headset, and complete Italian-thread Campagnolo NR BB cups and spindle. In place of Campagnolo downtube shifters were a pair of what appear to be some form of Simplex Retrofriction shifters - although they are unlike any I've ever seen. Very stiff, but it could be simply from old grease.

The frame struck me as being quite unique, as the first thing I noted on it was the unconventional binder - it looks as if a cam-type binder fits through there. The rear dropouts, I discovered, are chrome underneath the repaint, and, as badly rusted as the drops on the front fork are, there's no question that they are marked Brev. Campagnolo.

In contrast to this high-end component mix, the lugs are quite ordinary (and at the same time, unique) and disgustingly sloppy - the whole frame doesn't have a high-end appearance, yet, the Campagnolo dropouts would suggest otherwise.

Photos of the frame are below for your expert scrutiny. After I identify what the hell it is, it's open season on it for BF'ers - I'm putting it up for trade along with all the other junk I have listed on my other thread.

Now...

The second find are the crown jewels of the day - two pairs of Campagnolo brake levers, probably NOS. One pair Super Record w/excellent original gum hoods. Levers have just slight scratches in places.

But that isn't the great find. The other pair of levers are...

...NOS...

...pantographed NR levers! They are marked "G." within a black star. I'm guessing these are Guerciotti levers - although I have no clue as to whether it they actually are, or whether the "G" is for another make.

I won't even tell you how much I paid for the two pairs, but let's just say it's probably the cheapest a pair of panto'ed levers have ever traded hands for...

Enjoy the photos, and I'd appriciate help in ID'ing that frame.

Take care,

-Kurt

Cuda,
Nice levers! You know what. You're lucky that a bike shop changing hands would let you just check things out. There's a shop here in San Jose (Slough's) that is chock full of vintage and NOS parts especially the bikes and frames he's got hanging up. Beautiful Italian pieces of work. I've offered a couple of times to staighten up the place for him. (Back room and basement) There's NOS shoes from the 70's and 80's. I could go on forever. All I can say is if he should decide to close up shop one day, I'll empty my bank account and my credit cards to buy what he's got stored away.

Those are definately Guerciotti levers. I recognise the logo, I have a Guerciotti in my bedroom currently.

The frame looks like a Legnano. Interesting mix of bits with it... Levers are Guerciotti.

Cuda,
Nice levers! You know what. You're lucky that a bike shop changing hands would let you just check things out. There's a shop here in San Jose (Slough's) that is chock full of vintage and NOS parts especially the bikes and frames he's got hanging up. Beautiful Italian pieces of work. I've offered a couple of times to staighten up the place for him. (Back room and basement) There's NOS shoes from the 70's and 80's. I could go on forever. All I can say is if he should decide to close up shop one day, I'll empty my bank account and my credit cards to buy what he's got stored away.

Well, actually, the shop already changed hands. I was friends with the original owner though, and through the original owner was introduced to the new owner. Also helped that I came on my '51 Raleigh that day.

Unfortunately, it is due mostly to his needing to make money and clear up the shop's back area. The shop is not in the best location and is plauged by pretty poor parking, consequently, sales are not as good as the new owner had hoped.

As for the back room (which is technically a roofed & gated outdoor area), it is full of the most repulsive collection of pure-rust frames that aren't submerged in sea water. Would you believe I passed on three or four Raleigh Sports frames (for $5-10) in the pile, and advised him to sell them for scrap along with the majority of the remainder of frames in the pile? Yes, that's how bad most of these frames are - not an ounce of paint left on many of these frames - there's one Sports frame which is covered in 100% rust - from the front to the back. I'll try to get you a photo of it the next time I head down there.

Curiously though, he does have three all-chrome ladies Schwinn Varsity frames there in pretty good shape. Not sure if he'd sell 'em.

On another note...:

Incedentally, I find that no matter the shop, it always helps to bring an example of your dedication to vintage bicycles on your first or second trip (such as I did by bringing my '51 Raleigh). It does wonders to help warm up the shop owner to you...and if it doesn't, you probably don't want to deal with that person.

Take care,

-Kurt

The frame is a Legnano Gran Premio. Should be a serial number on the right hand side of the seat lug. I may be able to narrow down the era, but it will take a bit of sleuthing. PM me if you're interested.

The frame is a Legnano Gran Premio. Should be a serial number on the right hand side of the seat lug. I may be able to narrow down the era, but it will take a bit of sleuthing. PM me if you're interested.

Will PM you now T-Mar. One thing though - all I could find on the right hand side of the seat lug was "21" - and I'm sure that isn't the serial number...is it?

-Kurt

Simplex levers are early model retro-friction.

Nice find. FWIW, I agree that the frame looks like a Legnano. Check out these photos from Classic Rendezvous.

http://www.classicrendezvous.com/Italy/Legnano/Legnano_main.htm

All but one of the pictured examples have that same placement for the binder bolt, and that one looks like it dates from the Alpha-Lum team days of the late '80s or early '90s. All examples pictured also have rather simple lugs, although not identical to the ones you have.

Simplex levers are early model retro-friction.

'70s era, I'd assume as opposed to '80s? Are they as popular/equal in function to the later models?


Nice find. FWIW, I agree that the frame looks like a Legnano. Check out these photos from Classic Rendezvous.

http://www.classicrendezvous.com/Italy/Legnano/Legnano_main.htm

All but one of the pictured examples have that same placement for the binder bolt, and that one looks like it dates from the Alpha-Lum team days of the late '80s or early '90s. All examples pictured also have rather simple lugs, although not identical to the ones you have.

Just finished checking that page at CR.

I believe I found a Gran Premio frameset on eBay that is a pretty good match, right down to the silly 2-digit serial:

http://cgi.ebay.com/LEGNANO-FRAME-AND-FORK_W0QQitemZ290036670608QQihZ019QQcategoryZ56197QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Simple lugs they are, and thick too. Probably as they aren't investment cast.

-Kurt

'70s era, I'd assume as opposed to '80s? Are they as popular/equal in function to the later models?-Kurt

Late 70s. I am guessing you are more familiar with the open style, which came later. These work just as well as the later models.

Is this the place you told me about? I never got a chance to visit. I got back from Peru, and was planning to make a run over there, and then Wilma. Stuck without power for a week, before the Phantom finally let us go home. Nice find too, BTW!,,,,BD

Late 70s. I am guessing you are more familiar with the open style, which came later. These work just as well as the later models.

Only knew about the open style, I didn't know an earlier variant existed until today. CR doesn't have pictures of either in their archives, and I've only seen the open type on eBay.

-Kurt

Is this the place you told me about? I never got a chance to visit. I got back from Peru, and was planning to make a run over there, and then Wilma. Stuck without power for a week, before the Phantom finally let us go home. Nice find too, BTW!,,,,BD

Was it Tamiami Cyclery? If so, that's the shop. The frame lot back there has rusted out quite a bit in the last year - not much left there in the way of decent stuff anymore.

He does have two Vista (or at least one confirmed as badged Vista) musclebike frames that are lightly rusted all over - paint gone - but in excellent condition for a sandblast and repaint. $15/ea.

-Kurt

My Vista is about to go in a charity auction next weekend. I am starting to get rid of some of my older low end bikes, and keeping a few Schwinns, and a couple of nice road bikes. They are tempting, but I think I am getting away from bikes under 24" wheel size.,,,,BD

My Vista, soon to belong to someone else. I never got a good pic of the light blue glitter powdercoat.:p

My Vista is about to go in a charity auction next weekend. I am starting to get rid of some of my older low end bikes, and keeping a few Schwinns, and a couple of nice road bikes. They are tempting, but I think I am getting away from bikes under 24" wheel size.,,,,BD

My Vista, soon to belong to someone else. I never got a good pic of the light blue glitter powdercoat.:p

Actually, Miguel, that's not the type of Vista frame he has - his look like Sears Screamer frames with a slight rise to them in the back - very '70s and very cool. They're crying out to be brought back to life - and I bet he wants only $15 or $20 for each frame.

Take care,

-Kurt

"There be chrome under them lugs!"

Edit: Another pic...

-Kurt

I'm probably going to strip the paint, then give it a cheap spray-paint primer for when I sell it on eBay - just to make it a tad easier on the buyer, and to protect the bare metal.

-Kurt

I made a virtual profit of $400 today. The Vista, and Premier roadie from the other thread both brought $200 each at the charity auction.,,,,BD

Now onto the Peugeot, and my wife caved on the Crescent!!! Picking it up tomorrow if it's still there!

I made a virtual profit of $400 today. The Vista, and Premier roadie from the other thread both brought $200 each at the charity auction.,,,,BD

Now onto the Peugeot, and my wife caved on the Crescent!!! Picking it up tomorrow if it's still there!

$200? Lucky you.

Good luck on the Crescent - and if it's still there, I hope it's one of their better examples...

-Kurt

Shimano 600 and campy headset. I THINK, after seeing a few pics, that it's 531. A green/gold/black label, but it was pretty chewed up.,,,,BD

It was all charity, so $400 to the make a wish foundation...

Shimano 600 and campy headset. I THINK, after seeing a few pics, that it's 531. A green/gold/black label, but it was pretty chewed up.,,,,BD

It was all charity, so $400 to the make a wish foundation...

Well, best of luck on that. I don't want to pour water on your dreams, but don't be too dissapointed if it ain't there when you get there. Try not to get worked up about it...

Ah - charity. I can see where they would bring $200 in such a situation then. Couldn't see them do that otherwise though!

-Kurt

Well, the powder job on the Vista was $150 alone. I wasn't going to let it go for less than that, believe me, charity or not. The Crescent is probably still there. $85 in my neighborhood equals $300 in most. That kind of money would more likely go towards a set of 20's, or a very large belt buckle here. We'll see tomorrow.,,,,BD

Did you mean the remark about the $200 each as an insult? There was a lot of time and money in those two bikes. $400 was about the break even point averaged between the two.

Well, the powder job on the Vista was $150 alone. I wasn't going to let it go for less than that, believe me, charity or not. The Crescent is probably still there. $85 in my neighborhood equals $300 in most. That kind of money would more likely go towards a set of 20's, or a very large belt buckle here. We'll see tomorrow.,,,,BD

Did you mean the remark about the $200 each as an insult? There was a lot of time and money in those two bikes. $400 was about the break even point averaged between the two.

Well, best of luck on the Crescent. Nervex lugs are always the best - and very tempting. I ran into a small-frame '70 Super Course in Coffee at the LBS today - mint main triangle, and a sorely beat rear triangle - bashed, bent, and a crack in the left-hand seatstay cap to boot. Yet, those Nervex lugs on it nearly made me bring it home - despite being wrecked, and not my frame size.

Didn't intend for those comments to come off as insults - I just found it surprising, considering current market prices. Heck, I wish I could find someplace I could sell an offbrand musclebike for $200 - I could use the dough right now.

Doesn't matter much when all is said and done though - I don't have an offbrand musclebike to sell in the first place :rolleyes:

Take care,

-Kurt