General Cycling Discussion - Can I get rid of my car and still be part of normal society?

I had a crazy thought; "Why do I even own two cars?"

MY car sits in the driveway for months. It won't even run. I have a hard time keeping it running because it sits so long. In fact, I have been thinking that it is time to get rid of the old cruiser and get a new one.

Then the thought occurred to me, "why not just get rid of the car and RENT a car when I needed one?" Since I only use a car about four or maybe six times per year, I could rent any car I needed at any particular time. Think of having some fancy schmancy sports car for bringing the wife on a special occassion, and then having a 4X4 pick-up for hauling stuff when I needed it.

If I didn't have a car, I would probably save at least $2,000 per year. For that, I could rent a super car in great shape for $50.00 per day for 40 days per year. Actually, the economics probably work out even better than that.

Our family still would have one car - the one my wife uses daily.

Am I thinking too far of center? Would I be falling off the face of society by not having a car in the midwestern USA?

What do you think, folks? Where is the fly in the ointment with this one?

I think you have something here mike. I know I could go car-free and save myself $400 a month. But I keep my truck for two reasons: 1, Im lazy, I like to sleep in, usually resulting in me rushing to work, and driving to the grocery store to purchase $5 in food. 2, its not "socially acceptable" to not own a car, what would my friends and family think? Both very lame reasons, no?

I probably need my truck a few times a year (dating, hah). For that, I could easily rent a car, or truck, or whatever vehicle fits my need for that day, and save a ton of money to boot!

Lately I have been looking at a few condos, and houses closer to the city, right now im out in the suburbs, 20miles from anything. Once I live in, or closer to the city, I plan on going 100% car-free.

I have never owned a car, so it doesn't bother me a great deal either way whether it's considered socially acceptable or not. I think I'm better of without one, and that's the reason I haven't bothered to get one.

Chris

Get rid of the car Mike!!! Who cares if it is socially acceptable. Cyclists are not socially acceptalbe, so why worry about it now?

Absolutely! Go for it Mike. One car per family is plenty. I have been preping AlphaBabe for the the very same prospect of getting rid of our van later this year. I ride my bike 95% of the time, however my wife uses the car, and we need ONE family vehicle max.

Save some Buck$ AND fossil fuel...Go for it! :thumbup:

Why own a car when you don't really NEED a car?

I mean, if your job required a motor vehicle... say, real estate agent, building contractor, getaway driver... sure, you gotta have wheels. But, if like me, your job consists of banging on a keyboard and talking on the phone... AND you prefer to pedal to work... then why have two tons of obligation lurking in your driveway to wash, maintain, feed, and spend money on?

Now, if cars are your hobby, well, that's different. If owning-but-not-driving a '41 Cadillac convertible really turns you on, then have at it.

Cars are not MY hobby, though... I worked on cars - mine, and other peoples' - for twenty some years. I DESPISE cars.

So,

In 2000, I put just 1,100 miles on my '87 Nissan pickup. It would sit for so long that small furry creatures would build nests under the hood, and the door latches would seize shut.

At one point, I'd lost track of the keys, so I hammered a flat blade screwdriver into the ignition cylinder... I called it "key-less insta-start." I never worried about theft... Though undented and rust free, the truck hadn't a flake of paint left on it, and the black plastic trim was all grey and chalky.

When I did drive it, I wondered about the integrity of its eleven year old tires... with plenty of tread, but hard as Bakelite, and flat-spotted from standing in place.

This past spring, I gave my Nissan away... with no regrets. The new owner stuffed it into a tree after four days of ownership. Easy come, easy go.

I have two internal combustion vehicles: A Yamaha YZF600, and a Sears 22" B&S push mower. Neither is suitable for long road trips, so...

...when I want to travel out of town, I rent a car... something modern, comfortable, and reliable... Enterprise will deliver the car to my home or office, and the other rental companies are just a few bike miles away. (It really screws with them when I show up on my bicycle... to pick up a car!)

Last trip, I tried out one of Budget's Ranger pickups... $19.95 a day, the thing was loaded, and had only 750 miles on it. It was okay, but I wouldn't have bought it. I used it for three days and gave it back, no questions asked.

The best car ever made? I dunno the make or model, but I get to drive it, and it BELONGS TO SOMEONE ELSE!!!

MIKE!!! MIKE!! MIKE!! MIKE!! MIKE!! MIKE!! MIKE!! MIKE!! MIKE!! MIKE!! MIKE!! MIKE!! MIKE!! MIKE!! MIKE!! MIKE!! Wooohhooo!!! Go MIKEY!! Go MIKEY!! Go MIKEY!!!

Any questions?

Originally posted by fubar5
Get rid of the car Mike!!! Who cares if it is socially acceptable. Cyclists are not socially acceptalbe, so why worry about it now?

This is what I was poised to say, but Fubar beat me to it.

I got rid of my '69 VW in 1982, for $40 to a junk dealer. I have never regretted it in the least.

I not only don't have a car, I no longer have a valid driver's license. I'm a real outcast! (Not bragging about the license, either: I just lazed around and never got it renewed.)

No car here, either. I have not owned a car since 1990. The girl I have been dating for a year and a half has a car, but I rarely use it. Other than that, I have gone months on end without driving. At a few weak moments, I have considered buying a car, but then I quickly come to my senses. I have enough money to have a car, just don't see a reason to own one.

Sell that car, Mike, and don't think twice about it. You will be a free man without that hunk of wasted metal in your driveway.

Oh, boys, I am almost there, man. You are pushing me right into selling my car. I just have to get it running again in order to sell it.

Does anybody want a car that hasn't been driven much in the last couple of years?

I asked my own father (now a grandfather) if he thought I would fall off the face of society by not having a car. My very own Pappy said, "Sell the car. You fell off the face of society a long time ago". Guess who's getting nothing but socks and neckties this Christmas.

I am especially inspired by mentors like JonR, ChrisL, Stumon, and Steele-bike who have already been living car-free.

Some years ago, it was said that the automobile provided a great deal of freedom to Americans. That just does not seem to be true. I am thinking of a life free from the burden of the automobile.

I hate cars the more I think about them. Think about back in the day when there were no cars, and no road, and no gas prices to cause inflation. Geez, what a great time.

I figured the car was costing me between almost £1000 to park outside my house, so I sold it. At work we can rent from the car leasing company. They deliver and collect, and charge us at company prices, so its a great deal. I also get to hire just the car I need. When I need to move stuff I get a big car or truck. When I need to go places I get a compact hatchback.
It helps having a bike-friendly rail service nearby for most journeys, so I only need a car a couple of times a year.
Car free does not mean car-less.

Mike,
Last week I sold my 88 Astro and have no plans to replace it. My wife, the lovely and vivacious Rainbabe, thinks we can't do without a second car. I am determined to prove her wrong. Since buying a new car does not make economic sense anyway (translation: We can't afford it!), she has agreed that there is at least no hurry to run out and buy something. The Astro only got driven a couple of times a week, primarily on weekends, and at that there was nothing that could not have waited until the other car was available. I don't think we will miss it more than a couple of times a year. Hardly worth paying for the insurance. Besides, my one (of three) employed daughter will be living at home with her new car, so it's not like there won't be one I could borrow. I guess that is kind of cheating on the concept, though, isn't it. :blush:

Stumon, that $19.99 Ranger deal from Budget is great. When I travel, even on business, I try to rent one even though I am authorized to rent "mid-size", which costs about $50/day. To car companies, a Ford Contour or Toyota COROLLA is mid-size. The Ranger is much more comfortable and fun to drive, and you can't beat 20 bucks a day! I will probably rent one of those when I really need a 2nd car, assuming I have the necessary 3 days lead time.
Regards,
Raymond

Get Rid!!!!!!!!!!

Neither Mistress or I drive, but we live about 1 mile from work, she walks - I cycle(because walking is too slow and boring). We reckon we save about £300 per month by not driving which is about 20% of our income. We have the attitude of that £300 could be wasted on ourselves. :)

It's spoiling my chances of progressing in my job, but hey I get to come home early in the evening and get to see my daughter for more that 10 minutes per day. So what I lose in money through job problems I gain mentally, and so does my wife and daughter.

I'm quite a happy dude.

I'm 29 yeard old and ive never had a valid drivers licence. I never even owned a car till i was 27. My wife and I do own a car (she's the only one who drives it), an 88 ford escort. She uses it for work, as she often has to be at many appointments in one day, and is sometimes required to pick people up and take them somewhere.
I only learned to drive when we got the car. If it were not for her job, I dont think we would have bothered, we always got along great riding, or using public transport (buses and taxis). I have to admit I do like having the car when its time to go to the grocery store, rather than calling for a taxi, but the store is nearby and i can easly just go and get a fue items at a time as i need them.
The point I was making is I lived happily for years without a car, and so can you.


happy riding,
snoop dujour.

Mike, I have already fallen off the face of society, and so have you. The moment you started riding your bike to work it was all over for you. We are for all practical purposes permanently labeled by our peers as "unusual." Unless we backtrack completely and give up bicycle transportation altogether (and we know the odds of that happening,) getting rid of the other car will hardly make a difference. At this point it would simply amount to a token gesture.

However, your idea of renting a different vehicle for every occasion (and still saving money, unlike the bottled water fiasco at the convenience store you so fortunately discovered, and none to soon,) may be just the thing to propel you back into acceptability, no, even into celebrity status among your peers. Imagine showing up with a different car each time (they will be suprised enough that you are driving at all.) They will be green with envy! Corvette, Mercedes, SUV...do it all! Then, at the appropriate moment, mention that you can afford to drive any car you want because of the money you saved bicycle commuting. They will never top that unless they get a second job. ;)

My wife and I only have one car. I ride my bike and use public transportation. I went through a similar period of indecision when I faced the question of whether to give up my parking space at work so I could use the $30 a month to pay for my bus/train pass. Once I gave it up, I would have to go on a ridiculous waiting list if I changed my mind. When I took the plunge, I quickly forgot about it, until now, that is. That was many years ago.

Now, to make a long story out of this, I saw this movie in which Dick Van **** was struggling financially through a divorce, though he was previously very well off. He called his accountant and asked for an analysis of his annual budget. His accountant got back with him and started itemizing. Interrupting him, Dick asked, "what's the bottom line?"

"You are $4000 in the red."

"Good work! Say, how much do I pay you?"

"About $4000."

"You're fired."

:D

We flirt with the thought of not having a car at all. We're not quite ready to go car free just yet. First of all, we're still paying on the darn thing and we don't think we could sell it for enough to pay off the note. We've always had only one car. Right now most of the time it sits, parked, while my husband makes a complicated two bike and train commute to and from work. I've ridden my bike, walked or taken the el to everywhere I need to go for years. I think it helps a lot that we live really close to the city, so just about anything that I could possibly want or need is just a few miles away. If we lived way out in the same-urbia of DuPage County, I don't think we could have gotten away with just one car.

We're at a point where we hate our car, if only because we've put so much money in repairs into it recently. Let's put it this way. We could have bought another used car or two serious bikes for the kind of money it's taken to get our car into running order. It feels like throwing good money after bad, but we feel trapped because we're paying on it still.

As for falling off the face of society. Well, we're already freaks in the eyes of friends and family. We don't have a television and haven't for years. You tell someone that and they act like it's un-American or something not to spend every free moment glued to the boob-tube.

Originally posted by Campag Fetish Boy
It's spoiling my chances of progressing in my job

See! Now that is what I am talking about when I ask "without a car, will I fall off the face of society?".

Several years ago, I was interviewing for a promotion at my company. The VP in charge asked me, "Did you bicycle to work today?" I answered "yes, it is one of my passions". His response was, "Well, I don't think the fruit is ripe with you yet, then". Now, that guy is an automobile freak. He just dotes over his car. It is show-room spottless every day - even the wheels get shined every day. I don't know how he does it.

Anyway, I was lucky to escape that horrible department and now work with a much better and free-thinking group - having been promoted as well.

The point is that not driving a car CAN affect your career. I wonder what not OWNING a car can do.

I am surprised to see that you have the same problem in Whales. My hope was that Europe wasn't as afflicted with the automobile social disease as the USA.

years ago I thought my job may force me to work in one of the metro DC areas (yuck!!!), fortunately it did not. But had it work out that way I had already made up my mind that I would not own a car there... the public transportation would have to suffice.

but out here in the country we are 20 mi from all creature comforts and I am 30 mi from work so both s_girl and me have to maintain vehicles... but if it were not absolutely necessary I would get back to 1 (probably a nice truck)... especially now that I am getting back into cycling.

You could always "fake" owning a car.

Rent something nice for the weekend... not too over the top... just a bland, respectible car.

Pull it in front of YOUR house, or even into the garage. Now, take a few photos of it, preferably with YOUR family, pets, whomever, in the background. Make certain that you disguise or hide the rental company's decals, stickers, or license plate frames. Have someone take your picture at the wheel.

Once you get the pix back, ecco qua , instant "car!" Show them around the office, tape or pin the one of you with the car to your cube wall or stand it on your desk.

Anybody asks about the car... and my experience is that they won't, since my friends & coworkers all see me bicycling every day... you just sigh, and say "doggone thing's in the shop again. They can't seem to track down this weird electrical problem. Good thing I have a bicycle to ride!"

I swear, this ruse will work indefinitely... Nobody at my office knows I'm carless. Tossed nonchalantly on my desk are a couple of pix of a gold '00 model Buick Regal I rented in May of 2000, one showing my beaming face through the window. Nobody ever asks... I mean, who cares about a coworker's Buick sedan, anyway?

Originally posted by Stumon
You could always "fake" owning a car.



Mike, maybe you could leave the car where it is and just pretend it is a part of your life. Just make sure you wash and wax it and push it out of the way when you mow. Your neighbors will never know the difference.

Maybe there is a small market for stationary cars, much like those gym cycles which are bolted to the ground.

Originally posted by Pete Clark
I went through a similar period of indecision when I faced the question of whether to give up my parking space at work so I could use the $30 a month to pay for my bus/train pass.

When I cancelled my parking space at work (a mere $10 a month) the parking fee gal asked me if I had lost my license!!! ;) I of course told her that I had been commuting to work for some time and didn't see the point in subsidizing the parking lot. I still don't think she believed me!?! :( Gee do I look like that sort of reprobate? (second picture)

http://www.3fun.com/partyanimal/partyanimal.htm

PS - The first picture explains those screwy squirrels that run in our path! :D

Originally posted by AlphaGeek


PS - The first picture explains those screwy squirrels that run in our path! :D

Pop always told me that "beer would put hair on your a$$." The picture proves it!

Originally posted by mike

Several years ago, I was interviewing for a promotion at my company. The VP in charge asked me, "Did you bicycle to work today?" I answered "yes, it is one of my passions". His response was, "Well, I don't think the fruit is ripe with you yet, then". Now, that guy is an automobile freak. He just dotes over his car.

Perhaps the fruit in that guy will be rotten and thrown out one day when he is old, fat and unable to do anything prematurely.

Chris

Originally posted by Chris L


Perhaps the fruit in that guy will be rotten and thrown out one day when he is old, fat and unable to do anything prematurely.

Chris

Oh... he's "there" already. They just haven't thrown him out yet.

I was car-free from September 1993 through October 1994.

I took the bus to work. I caught it right in front of my building, or a block away when I moved.

About twice a month, I rented a car for the weekend, did my larger purchases and other errands that required the space, or had a gig that required driving.

I wish I could do it again. My daughter's mom is twenty miles away, and since marrying, I live away from the best of public transport. I ride to work and on errands, though. When two or three of us go anywhere, though, we take the van.

Jonathan

When I drove the now departed Astro to work I figured it cost me $10 per day to drive - $7 parking and $3 for gas. That's just out of pocket, not considering all the other expenses of using the car. I used that number to explain to Rainbabe how much money I was saving by riding my bike and therefore had available to spend on cycling stuff. It actually worked to some extent. Now that the Astro is gone, I hope I haven't given up that reasoning. I use a simple calculation. My roundtrip commute is just over 20 miles and I haven't ridden too much other than commuting. Since my odometer is now well over 2700 miles, I figure I have saved over $1400 so far. That more than covers the bike and all the goodies I have bought for it. Things you know I "needed". :D

As much as I enjoyed the Astro, I am glad to be free of it. I feel about 4000 pounds lighter.

Regards,
Rainman

You know those young kids who do a minimum wage Mcjob to earn money to by a car to drive to work and school.
Why not simply use the time to cycle?

I never owned a car and live hapilly every after (I am 29). Some collegues/clients look at me funny but as long as they I am employed I couldn't care less. Get rid of it. I learn to deal with minor inconveniences of cycling (sweat, rain, groceries, grease on pans) but the advantages are too significants (savings, health, parking, no insurance, no fuel, no pollution)

I must however as my own question: I am now separated and living in the heavy car culture of the SW I am concerned about the prospects of dating again without a car. I does not seem to be done here. Any advice on that?

Another problem I face is that I am moving to a smallish appartment and the 6 bikes (mostly yard sales trash) that I own take some space. I am trying to find innovative use of them (did you know that road bikes make great towels holder in the bathroom?) but still...

Originally posted by PapeteeBooh
I am concerned about the prospects of dating again without a car. I does not seem to be done here. Any advice on that?

It would be great if you ended up dating another ardent cyclist. But even if that doesn't happen, maybe you'll find somebody who respects and admires your principles concerning cycling--respect is probably one of the key essentials to a good relationship....

Originally posted by PapeteeBooh

I must however as my own question: I am now separated and living in the heavy car culture of the SW I am concerned about the prospects of dating again without a car. I does not seem to be done here. Any advice on that?
[/B]

Don't worry, I have that problem as well. I'm just enjoying the benefits of being single. Nobody hassles me about going for 150km rides on days off. :D

Chris

And while we're on the subject, can anyone give me a definition of "normal" that would be universally accepted? Seems to me that if you ask 100 people for their views on the meaning of that word, you would get 100 different responses.

Chris

PapeteeBooh:

1) Meet date prospect at concert, park, school, work... whatever.

2) Make date.

3) Rent a decent car. Suppress the urge to rent a cheapo Corolla or Neon. When in doubt, go for a Taurus or a Le Sabre.

4) Go out, have good time. Don't talk about cars, not having cars, sex, politics, or religion.

5) Point out to date that you don't need your own car... you can drive any car you want, whenever you want. If there's to be another date, suggest that you might turn up in a Jaguar or Mercedes.

6) Do something decadent...Make a grocery run before you turn in the rental.

I agree with Stumon, but suggest the following modifications:

1) Ask HER what kind of car she would like to be picked up in and arrange accordingly. She might say "a limo" or "Lambrogini (sp?)", but you can tell her that you have the opportunity to rent a car and thought it would be fun to pick one she might like. Heck, spend a little more and get some really sassy wheels. Think of the money you save by not owning a car.

2) Talk about HER. Whatever she is interested in is the most Fascinating thing you have discussed in a long time! You have either always wondered about it, or you have never thought of it and are suddenly overcome with interest in the subject. Remember the old stand-bye; if she is REALLY boring or stupid, look at her boobs (quickly, though - don't stare). It makes your eyes light up and refreshes the color of your skin.

3) Take Bean-o- before and during the date to stave off flatulants. You don't want her to know about that part of you until AFTER you are married.

4) Order wine that she will like but you will hate. Usually this is a sweat white wine. This will keep you from drinking too much and making a fool of yourself. With some luck, she will drink too much instead.

Oh, there's a million good hints. I can't wait to see more on this thread.

Originally posted by Chris L
And while we're on the subject, can anyone give me a definition of "normal" that would be universally accepted? Seems to me that if you ask 100 people for their views on the meaning of that word, you would get 100 different responses.


Not if you asked 100 normal people!:D

The latest estimates I've seen show that with depreciation, parking, insurance, fuel, etc., a vehicle costs $7200-7500/yr. That's some real money! I've been car-free for almost a year after my truck started deteriorating from lack of use and I sold it. I'm now commuting 22 miles each way, and that's in 110+ degree heat after climbing around on scaffold wearing 30 lbs. of tools for 8-10 hours. And I'm a puss! I hate exercise. I hate pain and have a very low tolerence for it. I'm lazy. But I love to ride! For me, it's like surfing or sailing only with steering and brakes. There's no reason why you jocks shouldn't be doing it. I live just a few miles from the airport and it's cheap and easy to rent a car-I've done it twice in the last eight months. It's true that I'm single and don't have family responsibilities, but you never know what you can do until you try. If anyone would have told me a few years ago that I could survive without a car, I'd have told them they were crazy. Go for it!

Originally posted by mwmw
If anyone would have told me a few years ago that I could survive without a car, I'd have told them they were crazy. Go for it!
Your whole post is inspiring, mwmw. Good for you! Yes, many more could happily go car-free if they wanted to. I suspect peer pressure is as responsible for car use as necessity.

Originally posted by JonR

I suspect peer pressure is as responsible for car use as necessity.

I agree 100%, JonR. I think peer pressure grotesquely distorts the necessity of automobile use, especially in the USA.

My lifestyle and the mathematics proves that I can live easily with only one car (for my wife), but the social ramifications are the one thing that has held me back from just getting rid of MY car.

The memory of the attempted insult by that VP makes me wonder what unrealized social drawbacks there might be.

Well, it's a helluva note if you have to do something that harms the environment and doesn't do your own health any good, just to win approval or achieve advancement that should be based entirely on working ability.

There are two sources of meager (because deferred) consolation: (1) the oil supply will give out pretty soon; (2) people who act the way that VP did will pay the cost, sooner or later: this is as inevitable as the sun rising in the east.

Originally posted by JonR
Well, it's a helluva note if you have to do something that harms the environment and doesn't do your own health any good, just to win approval

...you mean like smoking?

Originally posted by mike

...you mean like smoking?

Driving and smoking have a hell of a lot in common.

Chris

Mike,
Sounds like you've had your share of dates!!! What if your date is wearing a lot of clothes?

Originally posted by RainmanP
That more than covers the bike and all the goodies I have bought for it. Things you know I "needed". :D
I refer to these items, ALL bike related trinkets and stuff, as "essential". My 18 year old son, loves to rib me about my "essential" bike stuff! ;)

Originally posted by Chris L


Driving and smoking have a hell of a lot in common.

Chris

Every car I see does BOTH!

Originally posted by MichaelW
You know those young kids who do a minimum wage Mcjob to earn money to by a car to drive to work and school.
Why not simply use the time to cycle?

Yeah, it makes no sense to me. I have a job, and saving up for a car was never even considered. My only thought was,"more bike swag,more bike swag". I wonder if that is why I don't have very many friends?....:(

Hi, everybody. First post. :)

As far as the ownin' a car thing goes. If I weren't married, I'd ditch the car in a heartbeat. Since buyin my GT, I've taken the car to work once and now only use it if I have to haul the familia around. Kinda difficult to install 2 carseats on the back of a mountain bike.

I'd love to get rid of the banger and bike everywhere. The benefits are numerous. It's also a great way to save money too. No more buyin gas or payin to get a car fixed. Plus with a backpack you can't buy too much stuff.

I don't know why anyone would think not ownin' a car would be un-cool. IMHO, being car free is alot cooler and healthier than being stuck in traffic and breathing in Carbon Monoxide. Plus when I ride to work, It gets me pumped and hyper so when I do get to work I'm full of energy, not still sleepy and bored like I am when I drive a car there.

And...gettin around town, doin errands, goin to an from work on a bike turns all these routine things into a little adventure of sorts. Before I bought a mountain bike, I never would have imagined that ridin across town to get a haircut could be so much fun!!

:D

Originally posted by fubar5
Mike,
Sounds like you've had your share of dates!!! What if your date is wearing a lot of clothes?

That's an easy one; turn the heater to HIGH.

What if you are in a restaurant? and you can't find the thermostat?

I'm a little behind on the posts in this thread but I have one thing to say...

Normal society scares me and I want no part in it.:p