Only if you would welcome the regulars from other lists posting their "message" here. Would you like posting about hipness chic or the Simple Life Mantra on this list? Maybe some posts about bike lanes? This list has already sunk into the helmet proselytization morass.

It was a joke - a joke - you know, when you go ha ha ha (ot at least smile inwardly for a moment)!

Random thoughts:

- Thou shalt not covet
- A $5k bike and $2k bike are the same to me; I ride a $1k bike and a couple $100 bikes
- The "undeserving" rider of a $5k bike didn't consume an irreplaceable resource - buy your own if you wish

Now, a neighbor buying a $5k bike for ride-to-work day, then never using it again would bother me. Unless it was 62cm and he put it up in the garage sale :)

Hmmm? I wonder what those things might be? Could it be riding a 40 year old 39 pound Collegiate? Just curious.

Paster Bob,

I don't keep track of all my foolish behavior. If I need a reminder I can always ask my wife. :p

Sincerely,

Rob

When I got back into cycling I bought a bike that cost $350 or less. I couldn't have been happier or prouder of that bike. Wasn't that long ago, I still have it, and I put 2,000 miles on it. Then I spent $200 for a used hybrid and another $100 improving it, and I'm quite happy with it. I've got 1,200 miles on it. None of those figures are much compared with most of you.

I've tested a couple of $2,000 bikes and have to admit I'm really impressed with them, but at the moment, my financial priorities lie elsewhere.

I was coming to a point there, but I nearly lost it. What was my point? Oh yeah...one of the characterististics of still being pretty new to cycling is that I can't tell a really expensive bike from a less expensive bike, assuming they're both clean and in good condition, when I ride past one (or vice versa). I just don't know enough.

So this whole issue is moot to me, and I shouldn't even have posted this response.

As you were.

... My beef is with the racing set that looks down on those who don't race, who ride for the enjoyment of the outdoors and wind in your face, and yes, to try to get some positive physical and emotional feedback from the activity. I generally try to, at least, wave to oncoming bikers and usually get a positive response. More often than not the CF set takes on a holier than thou attitude that, IMHO is the antithesis of the "biking experience" as a whole.

not to get off-topic too far, but 'the racing set' is a broad spectrum of riders as is most any pigeonhole. 'competition' oriented riders run the gamut in types, as in the general population. Many I ride with (or sometimes 'against') are among the nicest humans in my corner of the planet. Some are not quite as noble, in keeping with what is found in the general population.
now I happen to be a wave-aholic, but don't expect everyone to be similarly afflicted. So, if waving is your 'thing', well then its your thing, not neccesarily anyone else's. Is it a great way to communicate, I believe so. Yet not everyone wishes to communicate while on their ride, for whatever reason.
So give racers a break, assess the person, assess the group/herd/school when they're swimmin in similar fashion together.
Same can be said for Offroaders, Tri-Geeks, BMXers, Bent riders, Commuters, Free Riders, and those vicious Trikers down in Fla.; 50+ oldepharts, the list goes on...

can't we all just get along?

...sorry, was just too juicy a moment...

as for the unruly road forum - ya gotta imagine the 'range' in that special place. Considerin that, itz really not that bad, and some of those young guyz are as 'afflicted' with ridin as many of us, here, are. Many are just at the front end of their lifelong affliction. Sometimes IT IS BETTER to learn the 'hard way' and not miss those juicy moments.

Paster Bob,

I don't keep track of all my foolish behavior. If I need a reminder I can always ask my wife. :p

Sincerely,

Rob

Me too! Me too! :rolleyes: :o

I ride a Trek 5200 carbon fiber or, when riding with my wife, a Trek T2000 Tandem. We also have a Cannondale MT tandem and a half dozen road bikes and MT bikes in the cellar. (Bridgestone, Cannondales and Treks) I've spent well over $5000 on bikes in the last two years. People ask why so many bikes? My answer is ... My children are all out of college, I don't drink or smoke, I drive a 6 year old pickup truck, play golf three times a year in charity events and rarely go out to eat as my wife loves to cook. I enjoy cycling and have the money to spend on the equipment I like and want.
In short, I spend my money on things that make me happy. If Scotch at $50 a bottle or a $25 cigar makes you happy then buy them. I wouldn't, but I then I have my bikes.

I don't know that it really changed my opinion on equipment, but my needs are so different now. I mostly ride long and leisurely, whereas in the past I was more geared to racing/performance riding. I do admit that i still don't have the tolerance bit down yet. I admit to getting pretty bugged when I see a rider on a pro-level race bike, bent over in agony, riding 10 miles at a time, with a cadence of about 50 bobbing and weaving down the road. Many-a-time I have asked myself... don't the shops tell people about good riding technique anymore? I do resent the classic Lance wanna look-alikes who want to look the part of a serious cyclist without being a serious cyclist. Then again, Its their money and I don't object to how they spend it, so I am conflicted.

One way to have "permission" is to marry a spouse with a passion for cycling. Then, you can buy almost anything you want as long as you buy two of everything. :)

I was coming to a point there, but I nearly lost it. What was my point? Oh yeah...one of the characterististics of still being pretty new to cycling is that I can't tell a really expensive bike from a less expensive bike, assuming they're both clean and in good condition, when I ride past one (or vice versa). I just don't know enough.

[/QUOTE]

That would be my point too, and very well put. I am also of the mind though that I deserve exactly what I want!

My Daddy always told me, "You're never dissatisfied with the very best".:D

Sadly, that forum is becoming a festering cesspool of penis envy and a barren vacuity of wisdom. :(

(in my Seinfeld voice)
Not that there's anything wrong with that ...

:D :lol:

I'll try to answer your question by asking another: Whats fun?? I'm training to try time trials this spring and I truely enjoy the workouts. I have a nice road bike (Ti/Ultegra) that I just don't get on. I have a new love, a semi-custom Ti/Centaur cross bike that just about always comes first. It doesn't handle as well as the road bike but instead provides freedom: I can go anywhere. The cross bike makes me grin and the road bike merely makes me smile.

There seem to be a lot of different perspectives on this, perspetives that are influenced by a lot of factors, not the least of which is the riding you choose. I have seen my own perspective change completely in the short two years I've been riding. I went from suffering sticker shock on the $600 I spent on my first bike to buying a $2200 bike this July.

The fact that I started on a recumbent, because of my cratered back, guaranteed that my bikes would cost more than average. Early on, I joined in with an older club group who rode every Saturday, starting just five miles from my house. I really learned a lot from this group, and decided I really liked group rides. But, it didn't take long for me to reach the point where I enjoyed riding faster than the pace of this group. I joined another club ride, and was unable to stay in the same county with these faster riders.

It was obvious that my fitness level would have to improve before I could keep up with that kind of club ride, but there was no doubt that it would take a better bike, too.

I stayed with my inexpensive bike (while adding a tandem, and another inexpensive, wider tire bike) for another year and a half, thinking things over. Other than my wife, I didn't feel I needed to justify an expensive bike to anyone else, but I did feel a need to justify it to myself. In the end, I decided that the healthiest hobby I've ever had, 5000 miles a year of bike riding, was worth an expensive bike. I'm still not the fastest of club riders, but I keep up with most, and have a blast doing it. And, I'm in the best physical condition I've seen since Army basic training, over 35 years ago.

All this is a long winded way of saying that this is a wonderful and inspiring hobby, and as long as you manage your debt properly (I paid off my new bike last week - YES), I say spend all you want, smile and enjoy.

Everyone deserves the best ride, the most fun, the biggest thrill, the smoothest bumps, the best views, the most awesome thrills, the deepest heart pounding, a happy riding companion, sound tires, reliable breaks and the smiles enough to get cramps. The bike is incidental. Cost of the bike is completely irrelevant.

I've found that $'s are important only if you don't have it.

But I've also found what I got is sure important to alot of folks I don't even know.

Hey, that gives me an idea: a 50+ "Ride your Age in Bike Weight" thread. One pound (none of this metric shilly-shallying!) of bike weight for each year. That means, basically, Huffys with a couple of bricks on a cargo rack for most of us. :D

Now where is the fun in putting an extra 25 pounds of crap on my Woodrup and then trying to ride as far ... as .... I .................can ____________ Oh, I get it!! TOURING!!!

This 50+ stuff sure can slow ya down!

Being 50+ made it easier to justify dropping some dough on a bike (recumbent). There is the health factor, which trumps the negatives. bk

Being 50+ made it easier to justify dropping some dough on a bike (recumbent). There is the health factor, which trumps the negatives. bk

Which "health factor" is that?

Sadly, that forum is becoming a festering cesspool of penis envy and a barren vacuity of wisdom. :(

:eek:

My favorite wife & I just rode the Texas Hill Country River Region Classic this weekend. We chose the 34-mile, 3-watershed, 1500' elev change version. She rode her Giant Boulder steel bike with the wornout gears weighing 30 lbs. and with her homemade vibration-reducing grips made of black pipe insulation & electrician's tape. I rode my new Surly LHT with 700x32 tires and new Shimano gears. I waited for her at each rest stop and enjoyed conversations with other riders.

She has no problems with her bike and certainly doesn't resent my new one. She likes how much pleasure it brings me. We're both 53 & know that her new bike is next when we can figure out the right one for her.

Is there equipment envy? Not particularly. Even seeing all the styles & gear of the road runners doing the other rides elicited not a bit of envy from either one of us.

Can we afford new, 'better' bikes? Yes. Do we deserve the 'best equipment'? who cares? We ride because we like to ride and we'll ride what feels good, safe and gets us where we need to go.

As for all the capitalist materialist jockeying for equipment, I frankly don't give a toot. There's too much of it and the zen of riding and riding a wonderful machine just seems to get lost in some form of materialist competition. The beautiful engineering, the sleek industrial design wizardry that goes into components is a source of pleasure. But 105 vs Campy vs DuraAce is not really much of a difference in terms of the aesthetic pleasure involved and certainly our riding styles will probably never push us to flash beyond the joy of riding good bicycles.

I'm just grateful that we can afford to think about having good bikes that we like to ride...THAT is the real blessing of having come past 50 relatively intact and having found each other.

+ 1000:)

Sadly, that forum is becoming a festering cesspool of penis envy and a barren vacuity of wisdom. :(

What would I do with a second penis? I can't find much to do with the one I already have. Louis, you're being silly. ;)

If a person is happy with the way their bike rides, it fits them, handles the way they want it to, and they have fun with it, what does it matter what price they paid for it? In the end, the object is to get from point A to point B reliably and back plus if it can do it/last for years...all the better.

Just read this article: http://www.pedalpushersonline.com/?CID=564

+ 1000:)

Hang on here..did you just agree with yourself?

I like to agree with myself!
+1000:)

+1000:)

BP. I would like to agree with you also, but I don't know what you look like because we don't have your real picture in the RG!

-1000

BP. I would like to agree with you also, but I don't know what you look like because we don't have your real picture in the RG!

-1000

Maybe it's a good thing that you don't have his real picture. Think of the poor children that could be damaged by seeing it! :eek:

Hang on here..did you just agree with yourself?


Well, my BF interface was acting weird so when I posted a + affirmation, it appears that yes, I DID agree with myself. But that's okay with me - so long as I can get someone to agree with me, I feel like I'm on the right path...:rolleyes:

..... - so long as I can get someone to agree with me, I feel like I'm on the right path...:rolleyes: Whoa. Hang on there big guy. That statement is dangerously close to one of political bend. Wouldn't want this thread to get exiled to the PnR basement.

Your guitar teacher and your grandmother were spot on - you should always have the equipment that makes you feel good. The best you can reasonably afford.

The arguments you find in the Road forum are just silly. Crap about "can't take the bike to its potential" are absolutely silly. A bike is a machine, it has no innate ability. Without a person, that bike can do nothing but sit there. Pretty much all bikes can go as fast as the best rider can ride them, and nothing more. Those taking the "old fat guy on a Colnago" stance are either financially unable, too cheap or simply afraid to spend the money. They're envious and nothing more.

When I got back into biking at age 39, I started cheap and then moved up with each new purchase. Then I found myself upgrading and suddenly it occurred to me that I was better off just starting where I would enjoy the bike. These days, I only build and ride top-end equipment because it's what I enjoy. And if someone else feels bad that my poor Vanilla isn't being ridden by some young fast(er) guy, well too bad.

The best thing about seeing some fat-cat newbie with a lot more money than knowledge, skill or will-to-ride buy more bike than he can really use is knowing that there is a good chance he will get tired of it and sell it cheap. So I encourage them to buy the best stuff available, especially if they are my size.

Thoreau wrote, "If you have any important endeavor to do, do it in your old clothes, for they are most assimilated to yourself, a second skin as it were."

Bet Thoreau would have ridden lugged steel and not worried overmuch about OCP....pedal to a "different drummer" perhaps?

Interesting thread.
For me, a guitar player like the OP, I find that I differentiate between types of equipment. Bikes fall into the category of things that work well, but don't have to be made of components that I can't pronounce. Guitars and pianos are made of wood, or at least , the ones I like are made of wood. Completely different category of equipment.

Get a cheapo bike like my old, recently deceased Trek 830, and it can serve for many years with no problems. I rode mine on centuries quite often, being set up for road use, of course.

Conversley, a cheap guitar will sound and feel like a cheap guitar, no matter how accomplished the guitarist. Sure, people will say, "wow, sounds great!" until the same player picks up a good Les Paul or Strat and plays the same run. The difference is astounding.

Bottom line: as I get older I realize that good bikes and good biking experiences aren't necessarily connected by cash. The opposite remains true with musical instruments.

At 58 I'm on the backstretch of life and closing in on the homestretch. Soon, I'll actually be worrying about making a clean getaway. In the meantime, I'm gonna have the bike I want. bk

At 58 I'm on the backstretch of life and closing in on the homestretch. Soon, I'll actually be worrying about making a clean getaway. In the meantime, I'm gonna have the bike I want. bk

.....as in "price is no limit" or in "I'll ride what damn well pleases me, not what some shallow OCP'er approves of".

Actually it doesn't change my view much unless you consider that I now view the equipment through glasses now, that is if I want to see more than just a blur.

As I tell the youngsters around me who drool around my bike - when you get old and grey perhaps you can get one. And, I deserve the handicap.

Granted, my bike is about 7 years old now and cost 2,000 USD when new. I still love it. I put a lot of miles (and parts!) into it - but I figure it is worth it since it just might keep me fit and healthy for another 40 years or so.

Unless I crash of course...

Agree with original post. The road forum members tend to knock riders who spend big bucks on a bike and then don't ride very fast. I've gotten so I don't care. I've selected my next bike manufacturer. I finally got over the sticker shock of spending over 1k on a bike. As soon as I get a new job within 20 miles, commuting distance. I'ld order it. If distance is further, then I'll stick with old silver. BTW, it's not just this forum, other bike forums have somewhat the same attitude, but not in the degree of BF.

Back in the 80's and 90's I would regularly travel to Mexico & Guatemala to ride the masters stage races. You have not seen old, cheap racing bikes until you've seen what some of these dudes ride in Central America. But some of those guys can ride, like the guy that won the general classification in my age group, a small, wiry guy who could really climb, even with his cheap bike. At that time I would have been riding an aluminum frame with Campag components and Mavic shifters, and this guy had some gas pipe job with DiaCompe brakes and god knows what other components. I think I only finished as well as I did because I was bigger, stronger, and better-fed, and I could usually outsprint anybody else.

It's funny that now that I can pretty much ride anythang I want, I'm happy with my best carbon fiber race bike having Centaur shifters and derailleurs, Ultegra cranks, and Tektro carbon brakes. I did have to get a Ksyrium rear wheel, though. We were at the NW Tandem Rally, and I checked out some of the exhibits, and it was really interesting to watch others salivating at the really expensive carbon fiber tandems, but somehow I was happy to be riding my 26-year-old steel "old geometry" tandem, and I didn't really feel like I needed to upgrade anythang (although my stoker did seem interested in a longer rear compartment). We were able to handle all the long routes with their various climbs very respectably. Once you've got a certain level of equipment, the ride doesn't really get "better," it just gets "different."

Besides, as I've said before, part of the fun of cycling is the constant upgrading of your equipment. If you just go out and get all the best stuff, then what do you upgrade? The glass is always half full...

- L.

yes...when wearing my glasses or contacts...I see it better.

yes...when wearing my glasses or contacts...I see it better.
:beer: :roflmao:

I was going to post something like a few days ago, but I got distracted and forgot! +1 !

well if you weren't preoccuppied with dauphin avatars...you would have been able to

I buy the best I can afford and can reasonably convince myself I need. I'm about the dig into my savings (at the moment, I'm failing to make an income as a writer so savings are the only way to go) to buy a Trek520. I guess I could have spent less and bought something like an OCR2, but I wanted a steel frame, I want this brute to last and be reliable and so wanted something better than Tiagra bits and I didn't want a toy rocket, but I stopped short of getting that custom frame made (I still sob everytime I fire up the website). I hope to do enough riding to justify the custom frame (by wearing out the Trek) but aren't convinced it'll happen. So, I've bought up the market a bit but stopped short at what feels like a reasonable level. Is this an age thing? Dunno. Probably not but I've long since given up trying to predict how I would have reacted thirty years ago - that was a different bloke with different experiences and different problems. This old codger is happier and more relaxed with life but maybe the only difference is that where both the old me and the young me would cry when looking at that custom frame, the old me is crying happy tears.

Does that make sense? Good, can I have some of what you're drinking?

Richard