QR's too dangerous?

[roccobike]

And the the great majority of the consuming public does not agree with you. Unless you think the consuming public is represented only by the needs/values of Club Cyclists, and BF elitist poster types.
Unfortunaly, you are right. I wish I could find the statistic, but its true, big boxes sell more bikes than LBSs. Certainly the big boxes also employ lawyers who would fight against any law that discriminated against big boxes and did not affect all bicycles. Perhaps allowing the purchaser to sign a document stating the risk of QRs has been explained to them and they understand this risk and accept it might work. However, I fear some politician has made the QR his battle cry and will see it through without regard to who it impacts.
What troubles me is why they (the politicians) think that the same people who can't figure out a QR will be able to figure out how to screw on a nut with various washer mechanisms that are used to assure the wheel won't come off accidently.

[khuon]

And the the great majority of the consuming public does not agree with you.

This is true. But people don't always do what's best for them. Sadly, it's usually the other way around.

[I-Like-To-Bike]

This is true. But people don't always do what's best for them. Sadly, it's usually the other way around.
Are you from the advocacy clique of shop guys, roadie cyclists, and other self appointed übercyclists who DO know what's best for everybody else?; Or at least think they know best and are all primed to educate the incompetent public.

And puhleeze, no over the top fearful lectures about one NJ politician bringing down the house on the freedom of bicyclists.

[yes]

QR - the lawyer tabs saved my ass once. During a 6 hour off-road race, my front wheel had come loose, and when I hit the brakes, it made a thudding sound - quite violent. The vibrations had caused the QR to become loose, and the brake would have shot the wheel out of the dropouts if not for the tabs.

I've bought a few xmart bikes. Once, b/c I had just had two bikes stolen, and was living in Chicago. It was flat, so the extra 5 or 10 pounds of my Target front susp. mountain bike was not a problem. It was set up reasonably. I only used it off road a couple of times, and it was fine. Another time, b/c a g/f didn't know if they were going to ride much. It was horrendous, and got returned.
A friend bought a bike for his wife, and she rode it once - about 50 yards. He should have gotten an xmart bike.

ILTB - have you ever recommended a pin hole camera made out of a shoe box

[genec]

"In contrast, a Wal-Mart bike will have front suspension, 18 or 21 "speeds", maybe rear suspension, maybe quick releases, and hand brakes, using levers spaced for adult, not children's hands. No employee of Wal-Mart has a clue how to properly assemble and tune these bikes. No bike shop stocks replacement parts for them. The "bearings" are often merely plastic sleeves. These bikes are designed for three or four months of riding around the block and then to be junked." -- alanbikehouston

I've known several employees at walmart who knew exactly how to put these bikes together. Please quit generalizing. Bike shops do carry replacement parts for these bikes, and last but not least--these bikes are not designed for a few months around the block and then junked.............I've ridden one for over 3 years and have had no problems with it! Just because you don't like walmart or the others, don't generalize and say it's all bad quality.


I have never see a set of stamped brake calipers available anywhere but on an x-mart bike. The same thing holds true of the stamped chainrings.

Please show me a source on the net where I can buy these replacement parts.

BTW I am not down on Walmart per se, that is why I say "x-mart," as a wide variety of department stores carry these types of bikes. I am not ranting against a particular store, just crappy bikes with crappy parts that are sold to people without a clue, who later sue because of the combination of poor parts and their own lack of knowledge. In many cases, I would guess the instruction manual (which probably was not read) had information on how to use the bike, and simply was not followed.

But now we, the public have to deal with the dumbing down "mommy nation" results of these lawsuits.

[genec]

Granted that the ChiCom bikes sold at Hell-Mart & such are good only for recycling, casting & machining is not inherantly superior to stamping as a manufacturing method. A well-engineered stamped part made of good material can be of equally high quality.

Agreed... it is the well "engineered aspect" that is missing... or well, actually it is that the engineering was applied toward "shaving nickles" and making the bike cheap to manufacture, vice building something strong and yet light.

[genec]

I won't deny that there is a market and a use for x-mart bikes... just like disposable razor blades, but that market is better served by not dishing up a plate of hamburger and calling it fillet minion, and trying to deceive the public with look-alike features that are more likely to fail then deliver any performace.

[I-Like-To-Bike]

ILTB - have you ever recommended a pin hole camera made out of a shoe box
No, but a good photographer could do more with one than a jackass who thinks better photography requires the most expensive/latest gee-gaws "just like the pros."

I seem to remember an exhibition of Ansel Adams photos taken with a Brownie or some other simple camera to show that thought, preconceptualization, lighting and composition were what made quality photos; not name brands and receipt price tags.

[I-Like-To-Bike]

But now we, the public have to deal with the dumbing down "mommy nation" results of these lawsuits.
"We the public"? Like heck! You mean you and a handful of snobby whiners moaning about all the other cyclists not as wise and skillful and knowledgeable as yourself.

So dang wise as to totally ignore the vast majority of cyclists who don't fit your own snotty profile. So dang skillful that taking a wheel off a bike equipped with nuts or a QR and "lawyer lips" is unbearably difficult.

So dang knowledgeable that you believe that the alleged 100% training/manual reading dispensed at time of purchase lasts forever for all future users of bikes equipped with non-intuitive assembly/disassembly instructions for the wheels.

[genec]

"We the public"? Like heck!

Oh so mandatory helmet laws and seatbelt laws don't effect you or your state?

Laws enacted to save us from ourselves... apparently... or couldn't the poor darlings that were sitting in seat belt equipped cars figure out how to use the darn things?

[catatonic]

My take is this: All bikes should have QR capability.

HOWEVER: only the "hardcore" (let's just say $1000 price point just to have a point of reference) bikes should have QRs on them when sold. The rest should have nutted skewers. The QRs should be availible from any bike shop, but they should include a manual.

Reason for this is at that point it's an aftermarket modification, and these people can't sue over it, since they incorrectly modified the bike. They can gripe all they want about the part, but if that part can be proven to be functional if used according to the included manual, then they lost all legal recourse.

[slvoid]

I hear what you are saying... and the whole thing is based on being a smart, well-informed shopper... the buyer that is buying a Nikon D-50 (SLR BTW) over a point and shoot Kodak, is a shopper that is educated about the item they are purchasing... and the store might even offer both brands, so part of that education can take place right in the store. .

Ahhh.. think again. Come to NYC and I can show you many many incredibly hot.. smoking hot gorgeous, dumb as a door knob chicks with 6 figure secretarial jobs buying D100's (and D200's now). Same thing goes for the shopper who doesn't know the difference between a seat post and a seat stay and buys a $7000 Serrotta because john kerry drives one.

[slvoid]

Yes, they do... but do you think any consumer that buys a $99 bike is going to pay $698 for a Nikon D-50?

http://www.walmart.com/catalog/search-ng.gsp?search_constraint=0&search_query=nikon+d-50&Continue.x=25&Continue.y=8&Continue=Find&ic=20_0

I'm sure this has been beaten to death but a friend of mine has almost $100,000 worth of photographic equipment, we're talking lenses that cost 15 grand, and he drives a decent but awfully cheap toyota, I have a jacket that probably costs more than that car.

I also work with a guy who's a director of manufacturing who rides a cheap walmart bike. He's not stupid, he knows how to fix bikes, he only commutes 7-8 miles, didn't see a need for an expensive bike, so he bought one and fixed it up himself. He also gets his "wicking, high tech spandex" clothes from old navy and $10 nashbar specials, and guess what, it works.

There are infinitely more people who drive a cheap $1000 junker to work than a $200,000 ferrari. By the same token, there are infinitely more people who ride cheap walmart bikes for work or recreation than those who ride say, a $600 bike anywhere.

[barba]

I don't have the patience to read through the entire thread, but does anyone have any reliable numbers on QR-related injuries? I can't help but wonder what magnitude this presumed problem is.

[I-Like-To-Bike]

I also work with a guy who's a director of manufacturing who rides a cheap walmart bike. He's not stupid, he knows how to fix bikes, he only commutes 7-8 miles, didn't see a need for an expensive bike, so he bought one and fixed it up himself. He also gets his "wicking, high tech spandex" clothes from old navy and $10 nashbar specials, and guess what, it works.

There are infinitely more people who drive a cheap $1000 junker to work than a $200,000 ferrari. By the same token, there are infinitely more people who ride cheap walmart bikes for work or recreation than those who ride say, a $600 bike anywhere.
Exactly right. But unfortunately, there are way too many bicycle wizards who think that their wise/informed purchase of the expensive stuff makes them an authority on educating the üntermensch who are dumb and don't see the wisdom in buying the most expensive/"best" stuff available.

[chipcom]

I don't have the patience to read through the entire thread, but does anyone have any reliable numbers on QR-related injuries? I can't help but wonder what magnitude this presumed problem is.

Look no further than the height of your little toe. That is unless you have a gout engorged little toe the size of Brooklyn!

[I-Like-To-Bike]

I don't have the patience to read through the entire thread, but does anyone have any reliable numbers on QR-related injuries? I can't help but wonder what magnitude this presumed problem is.
A definition of the "presumed problem" is in order also. Is the problem too many QR related accidents; or is the problem the difficulty experts have taking a wheel on/off with lawyer lips; or is the problem that those Real Cyclists who want their QR's with no safety backups have nightmares and fear that they might not be able to continue to equip their bicycles in this manner? Or is it, as it seems for some posters, just another rant about evil lawyers?

[saraflux]

you know it's gonna happen
http://img326.imageshack.us/img326/4355/airbaggoldwingzg6.jpg

It will embedded in our clothing similar to the inflatable crash suit Y.T. wears in Snow Crash, but she goes right off a cliff and bounces down to safety, so if I can get one of those I'm all for it. :lol:

These suits would also have the effect of ending once and for all the helmet/nohelmet debate as the neck of the suit inflates to protect the head... where are all the engineers in this forum?
get on that!!!

[genec]

I don't have the patience to read through the entire thread, but does anyone have any reliable numbers on QR-related injuries? I can't help but wonder what magnitude this presumed problem is.

What I want to know if we ever get any reliable numbers on this is what types of bikes were involved.

[genec]

A definition of the "presumed problem" is in order also. Is the problem too many QR related accidents; or is the problem the difficulty experts have taking a wheel on/off with lawyer lips; or is the problem that those Real Cyclists who want their QR's with no safety backups have nightmares and fear that they might not be able to continue to equip their bicycles in this manner? Or is it, as it seems for some posters, just another rant about evil lawyers?

Or is that some folks enjoy living in a "nanny state."

[caloso]

I hope some MP will introduce a similar bill in Commons because it seems the problem has spread to the UK:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qZ7KUXW3fKU

[I-Like-To-Bike]

Or is that some folks enjoy living in a "nanny state."
One NJ legislator allegedly making a proposal about QR's = a handful of cycling experts going bonkers about the the "Nanny State"! Are they burning the wild marijuana fields near San Diego, causing you to have such loony leaps in logic.

[barba]

One NJ legislator allegedly making a proposal about QR's = a handful of cycling experts going bonkers about the the "Nanny State"! Are they burning the wild marijuana fields near San Diego, causing you to have such loony leaps in logic.

The ad hominem posts do little to help with actual conversation. You have some points to make, but the anti-elitist schtick is pretty lame actually. If you can produce no evidence that QR pose a risk and the state still feels it must intervene, that does seem like over reaching in the name of public safety. It doesn't require a field of marijuana to reach that conclusion

[chipcom]

It doesn't require a field of marijuana to reach that conclusion

But a fattie sure makes the day go a little bit slower! :D

[Feldman]

Allen-key skewers sound like the best idea being tossed around here--they are also allow easier tightening of a wheel than solid axles with external nuts, as they don't cause the axle to "creep" in the frame or fork.

[I-Like-To-Bike]

I don't have the patience to read through the entire thread, but...

The ad hominem posts do little to help with actual conversation. You have some points to make, but the anti-elitist schtick is pretty lame actually.
You wouldn't find the elitist allegations misplaced if you actually read the posts of this thread. So save your false accusations of "ad-hominem posts" for some other time, maybe after you develop the patience to read before you respond.

[I-Like-To-Bike]

Allen-key skewers sound like the best idea being tossed around here--they are also allow easier tightening of a wheel than solid axles with external nuts, as they don't cause the axle to "creep" in the frame or fork.
Good idea for whom?

[barba]

You wouldn't find the elitist allegations misplaced if you actually read the posts of this thread. So save your false accusations of "ad-hominem posts" for some other time, maybe after you develop the patience to read before you respond.

I did read the thread. You are obnoxious.

[Cerberusgl]

How about if everybody takes an intelligence test and mechanical aptitude tests. The results will be tattooed on your wrist. Then all consumer products will be given values for the two categories. If your score on either value is below that of the product then you can’t purchase or use the product. We could use test results from the people in previous lawsuits to establish a baseline. :rolleyes:

[genec]

Good idea for whom?

What exactly do you want? QR work fine for those that take the time to learn how to use them. QR have a 50 year history of not being a problem, but now that they are being "pushed" on "bikes for the masses," (at some lower quality than that which has worked fine) and the masses apparently cannot deal with them, it is only now they are found to be a problem.

To me, the best solution is simply put nutted axles on bikes for the masses, and leave the whiny elitist bikes to the whiny elite, who are now clamoring for (shutter) carbon fiber bikes. CF bikes require proper care and inspection... and failure mode is catastrophic.

I can't wait until the masses are being introduced to CF bikes by the x-mart stores... what do you then think the lawyers will demand? CF bikes built with steel sleeves?

All of your rhetoric is aimed at the whiny elite, who don't seem to have problems with QR, but don't want "laws for the masses" detracting from the root reason/use for QR... what do you suggest... other than more rhetoric, without a cause?

[TRaffic Jammer]

Someone say fattie? :p
Works for me.... if it sold at some big box level....or price point ...solid axles AND/OR LBS or above a price point then QR's.
****shutters at the thought of CF being sold at ****mart***

Seems simple and fairly reasonable to me, this of course means it'll never happen. :lol:

[caloso]

Does anyone else think that nutted axles are less safe? I mean, you need two wrenches and if you have the wrong size you're likely to smash a knuckle or you could strip the axle thread.

[TRaffic Jammer]

I suppose you could screw that up as well, but then you really are fishing for The Darwin Award TM.

[John E]

What exactly do you want? QR work fine for those that take the time to learn how to use them. QR have a 50 year history of not being a problem, but now that they are being "pushed" on "bikes for the masses," (at some lower quality than that which has worked fine) and the masses apparently cannot deal with them, it is only now they are found to be a problem.

To me, the best solution is simply put nutted axles on bikes for the masses, and leave the whiny elitist bikes to the whiny elite, who are now clamoring for (shutter) carbon fiber bikes. CF bikes require proper care and inspection... and failure mode is catastrophic.

I can't wait until the masses are being introduced to CF bikes by the x-mart stores... what do you then think the lawyers will demand? CF bikes built with steel sleeves?

All of your rhetoric is aimed at the whiny elite, who don't seem to have problems with QR, but don't want "laws for the masses" detracting from the root reason/use for QR... what do you suggest... other than more rhetoric, without a cause?
I concur 100%, Gene. For the record, there is NO WAY I would entrust my life to a CF fork, but I risk my life every day with 47-year-old Campagnolo QR skewers. It's all about personal choice and one's own perceived risk/reward ratio for each decision.

[Bikedued]

Bottom line is the majority of the buying public are idiots, and think anything that could possibly be someone elses fault, IS someone elses fault. The real problem aside from junk parts that snap in two, are the 16-24 yr old ignorants putting them together. I have seen some BAD things that would injure someone, on at least one bike per visit, at any given xmart. The worst is brake cables so loose they will not stay hooked up(V brakes) If the cables will stay on, the lever goes all the way back to the grip and only mildly squeezes the rim. Other problems include backwards mounted forks, cables misrouted so badly they cause inadvertant braking and/or shifting, crooked handlebars, loose seatposts, on and on and on. I think people who don't know the aptitude of the assembler PERSONALLY, take ANY AND EVERY bike bought at an xmart to a responsible bike mechanic. Better yet, let the potential buyer pick out a bike, and give it to them in the box, with the stipulation that a competent
bike mechanic assemble it. The buyer signs a waiver, and the store is no longer liable. The manufacturer would stay liable for warranty parts, recalls etc... Sounds good to me.....,,,,BD

[tomcryar]

Allen-key skewers sound like the best idea being tossed around here--they are also allow easier tightening of a wheel than solid axles with external nuts, as they don't cause the axle to "creep" in the frame or fork.


I agree. But, alot of people like the convenience of the quick release, and it's not going to go away, but will come with a warning and possibly sold only with the higher-end bikes. I'm guessing about all this, though, and I believe it started because a few people forgot, or didn't know how to properly lock them and got hurt, and decided to sue. There was a post here a month or so ago about how somebody helped another person with his front wheel because it wasn't locked properly---and the person he was helping was a bike cop. It all comes down to what you do with your equipment.

For chipcom: and a little easier, I'm sure.........

[I-Like-To-Bike]

Bottom line is the majority of the buying public are idiots, and think anything that could possibly be someone elses fault, IS someone elses fault. The real problem aside from junk parts that snap in two, are the 16-24 yr old ignorants putting them together. I have seen some BAD things that would injure someone, on at least one bike per visit, at any given xmart. The worst is brake cables so loose they will not stay hooked up(V brakes) If the cables will stay on, the lever goes all the way back to the grip and only mildly squeezes the rim. Other problems include backwards mounted forks, cables misrouted so badly they cause inadvertant braking and/or shifting, crooked handlebars, loose seatposts, on and on and on. I think people who don't know the aptitude of the assembler PERSONALLY, take ANY AND EVERY bike bought at an xmart to a responsible bike mechanic. Better yet, let the potential buyer pick out a bike, and give it to them in the box, with the stipulation that a competent
bike mechanic assemble it. The buyer signs a waiver, and the store is no longer liable. The manufacturer would stay liable for warranty parts, recalls etc... Sounds good to me.....,,,,BD
Ahhh! Another shop guy speaks his piece for bicyling advocacy.

[I-Like-To-Bike]

I did read the thread. You are obnoxious.
Oh my! You whine about ad hominem arguments yet that is your only argument. Similar to those who choose to ignore any posts which don't please them, you find obnoxious those comments that ruffle your tender sensibilities. Perhaps you would prefer some soothing babble about the latest club training rides. The real meat and potatoes for Real Cyclists, eh?
Bottom Line: The entire thread is filled with the posts of experts claiming their mental superiority over all those lowly cyclists who don't fit the posters' profile. Those who don't need or don't want QR's are determined to be stupid and/or incompetent; the same derision is directed at all those without the alleged wisdom to shop where the self appointed experts congregate.

[genec]

Bottom Line: The entire thread is filled with the posts of experts claiming their mental superiority over all those lowly cyclists who don't fit the posters' profile. Those who don't need or don't want QR's are determined to be stupid and/or incompetent; the same derision is directed at all those without the alleged wisdom to shop where the self appointed experts congregate.

Yup the entire thread is filled with folks that know how to use QR properly, AND don't have problems with them. It is only those folks that don't take the time to shop for a bike, buy the first cheap thing they see, and then assume they know what all the little do-dads are for, that seem to get into trouble with QR.

Again rant all you want. The "experts" have been using QR for a long time with no complaints.

So rather than rant about how well the "experts" can use a product they understand... what would you have done with QR that "non-experts" cannot seem to use properly?

I offered a solution... remove QR from "non-expert" bikes. Your solution seems to be: "rant at experts."

[catatonic]

Good idea for whom?

1) The average joe buyer, who more than likely would never use the QR skewer anyways. If the need arises, an allen wrench is compact enough to put in a back pocket.

2) The commuter, who now has a slightly better chance of not having his front wheel stolen.

3) The bicycle manufacturer, since QR-related lawsuits will be averted since the bike did not come with them.

4) The bike shop/retailer, so long as they did not install a QR on there (leave it up to the customer to perform that operation if they want one....if they don't know how to intsall it to the wheel, then they shouldn't be using one to attach a wheel to a fork)

Really, in the end, it's a comparable solution that helps avert junk lawsuits. I think that makes it a good idea.

QRs were made for sport riders and racers, where a fast flat repair is very desirable. If a commuter is that pressed on time to need a QR when they flat....that person needs to not only add some time to their commute, but had better have shower facilities at work. And average joe, just having a sunday ride could probably do just fine with that allen wrench.

I used to use keyed skewers (anti-theft)....talk about annoying, I had a giant roughly spark-plug sized key to carry around....and those served me fine, even in the rare instance I had a flat. Those worked in essence like nutted skewers, just used a different (and about 10 times bigger) "wrench".

[catatonic]

Does anyone else think that nutted axles are less safe? I mean, you need two wrenches and if you have the wrong size you're likely to smash a knuckle or you could strip the axle thread.


Threaded axles are pretty safe, and you only need one wrench. The secret is you hand tighten both nuts, then use the wrench to tighten them down. They are not going to rotate once there is some level of engagement, since the axle is stationary on a bike.

Of course two small open end wrenches is pretty compact as well (and easier for everyone to pull off compared ot my one wrench method). Adjustable wrenches often suck (let alone how few people see the need to spend on a good one that won't have it's jaws distort upon any real load), and pliers can be outright dangerous in the hands of a person who is less than mechanically inclined.

[genec]

Does anyone else think that nutted axles are less safe? I mean, you need two wrenches and if you have the wrong size you're likely to smash a knuckle or you could strip the axle thread.

Not to the mechanically uninclined, but heck, that is somewhat how we hold car wheels onto a car, so perhaps the "interface" of using some sort of wrench is not as "foreign" as a QR to the mechanically uninclined.

What bothers me is that QR really have no place in mass consumer bikes, but they have been put there... so now the solution is to make the QR "not quick" by adding all these "safety features."

Eliminate the QR in the consumer market, and add as many safety tabs you want... in an effort to make an "idiot proof" bike. (and the world will just develop better idiots)

Meanwhile, don't mess with QR for the other "non-mass consumer" markets.

[Sci-Fi]

Many "mass consumer bikes" do not come with QR, nor do they really need to have them. I seen countless numbers of bikes with QR's that have "lawyer tabs/lawyer lips" that commonly come with traditional threaded axles on consumer bikes.

That being said, rim brakes tend to keep the wheel in the fork anyways even with an improperly adjusted/tightened QR. It's the growing popularity of disk brake systems, esp on MTN bikes, that some studies (notibly James Annan) suggest can cause quick-release front wheels to be ejected past the lawyer tabs. It's been suggested that adding something as simple as a thumb screw to the lawyer tabs can keep the wheel in the fork, yet can be removed in a few seconds without the need for tools.

Besides, even a slightly loose wheel can be very noticible on a road or commuter bike esp on bumps and turns.

[pyze-guy]

post a sign and you are off the hook baby!!!!!

Does this fall in the overkill category?


http://www.flickr.com/photos/51943328@N00/277844705/

[Bikedued]

No, I DON'T OWN A SHOP, or work in one, or get paid in any way by a bike shop. Imagine that. I am just completely sick of people that take no responsibility for their own actions, and want to blame/sue someone else the first time their stupidity hurts them. If you don't know how to tighten a QR, it's simple. Change to solid axles, and use Nyloc nuts to hold your wheels on. Blaming someone else for not doing basic maintenance on a machine you own is ignorant. Here's an example. A wheel flies off their car because they changed a flat and forgot to tighten the lug nuts. I assume they will want to sue the automaker? The dealer?,,,,BD


Which is kind of funny when you think about it. I own a 98 Ford F-150. The lugnuts were recalled, haha.....

[pyze-guy]

You wouldn't find the elitist allegations misplaced if you actually read the posts of this thread. So save your false accusations of "ad-hominem posts" for some other time, maybe after you develop the patience to read before you respond.


However bad the arguement may or may not be, his/her point about ad-hominem was correct, perhaps more poisoning the well, but a personal attack fallacy none the less.

[Bikedued]

I also reported a possibly dangerous pedal on this forum a week or so ago, and got a "Tough cookies, stuff breaks sometimes" for my trouble. It quickly disappeared of course. Should I have let people find out on their own, and then sue when they were injured?,,,,BD

[I-Like-To-Bike]

No, I DON'T OWN A SHOP, or work in one, or get paid in any way by a bike shop. Imagine that. I am just completely sick of people that take no responsibility for their own actions, and want to blame/sue someone else the first time their stupidity hurts them. If you don't know how to tighten a QR, it's simple. Change to solid axles, and use Nyloc nuts to hold your wheels on. Blaming someone else for not doing basic maintenance on a machine you own is ignorant. Here's an example. A wheel flies off their car because they changed a flat and forgot to tighten the lug nuts. I assume they will want to sue the automaker? The dealer?,,,,BD


Which is kind of funny when you think about it. I own a 98 Ford F-150. The lugnuts were recalled, haha.....
The only lugnuts on this thread are the gang of characters who see lawyers and crooks and dummies in a vast conspiracy to rip off the righteous cyclists who only want to live in peace with their QR's. AND wail away about the alleged and imaginary multitude of lawsuits brought against the purveyors of QR's and other essential racing derived paraphanalia with which no Real Cyclist can do without.

[Bikedued]

Oh, so you're either the lawyer, or the individual who started this whole thing by not knowing how to use a QR? How close am I? And you missed part of the point, which was the whole point really. If you stopped at the copied and pasted sentence below, I would completely agree with you. Instead you seem to "wail away" about QR's to a message board full of people who know how to use them, or at least grasp the concept enough to not hurt themselves by using them in an unsafe manner. The amount of frivolous lawsuits today is both disgusting and alarming.

This is the only part you made sense with, in my humble opinion.....

wail away about the multitude of lawsuits.

[Bikedued]

Lower end companies should not be allowed to duplicate parts they don't plan to engineer/manufacture correctly. Most of the QR I have seen are very well made, with CrMo axles, etc. Some low end seat post QR's I have bent the lever on, trying to tighten them enough hold the post still. This was with my bare hands!!! If this is the same technology they're they might be using on the QR axles, then by all means take THEM off the market. At least leave the decently made ones for the millions who understand how to use them.,,,,BD