Bicycle Mechanics - Do you have a Giant Road or Touring bike?

Hi everyone,

I have a Giant OCR Touring 2003, and I'm ready to start my build. The spec sheet says that the fork and headset were 1" threadless. I'm looking at the frame, and the head tube looks huge (way more than even 1 1/8"). I'm wondering what piece I am missing. Is there supposed to be a shim/cap that the headset fits into? I wont be installing the headset myself, but just want to know if I have all the parts before going to the LBS. Thanks

I have an OCR Touring...

http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/7059/3373/1600/CIMG3031.jpg

It is a 1" threaded integrated headset.

(The Salsa Moto Ace stem is attached to a threadless/threaded converter... pretty much a quill with a 1-1/8" pipe on top. Original stem was adjustable quill.)


I think the whole setup was a bodge on Giant's part. If I were building new, I'd use a 1-1/8" threadless fork (a lighter carbon one, ideally) and appropriate headset and probably save a buncha weight.

Can it be done with a 1" headset and threadless fork (not integrated)? I have another frame here, and comparing how that headset fits into the head tube, I dont understand how this Giant frame takes a 1" headset. The headset would almost fall right through the tube because its so large. Can I buy a separate quill? Is that the part I'm missing? Thanks

I think the head tube is made for an integrated headset. That's why it's so honkin' big. I don't know if you can get a 1" headset that will fit. I don't know much about headsets; this is the only integrated headset I own.

A quill is a part of a stem for threaded headsets. It fits into the fork steerer and expands with the turn of a bolt.

Thanks Phantoj. Ohhh.... the pain. :) I just measured the inner diameters of the top and bottom of the headtube, and its 44mm (thereabouts, I had to use a ruler). I looked over on the park tool website, and in the headset standards page they have an example of the giant setup, it looks like a low profile (zero-stack) headset is used. So after reading what that was, I see that I can get 1" or 1.125" zero stack headsets. Can the frame take either (if I want to use a 1" fork get the 1", and if I want to use a 1.125" fork get that one)? Or must I get one size zero stack over the other? Thanks again

Thanks Phantoj. Ohhh.... the pain. :) I just measured the inner diameters of the top and bottom of the headtube, and its 44mm (thereabouts, I had to use a ruler). I looked over on the park tool website, and in the headset standards page they have an example of the giant setup, it looks like a low profile (zero-stack) headset is used. So after reading what that was, I see that I can get 1" or 1.125" zero stack headsets. Can the frame take either (if I want to use a 1" fork get the 1", and if I want to use a 1.125" fork get that one)? Or must I get one size zero stack over the other? Thanks again

Like I said, I don't know much about headsets, but this sounds right, and I think you would just get the right size zero-stack headset for the fork you want to use. The frame should be able to take either. Plus, I think you can get an adapter for it if you want to use a normal headset.

Ok, thanks Phantoj, its starting to make some sense. Do you have an example of the adapters (or where you got the impression they exist)? Right now, it looks like I'm going to sell the headset and fork I bought. I had to sacrifice a couple things I wanted thinking that I had to get a 1" fork. I'd still be curious whether I could use the 1" headset I have with a 1" fork. Anyone else know?

I have an OCR 2 road. It had a 1" threaded and I converted it to a threadless using an FSA headset. I don't know the model or anything it has SCB written on it. I had to try a few headsets until I found the right one. I'm thinking it wasn't fully integrated. Sorry I can't remember. I did this about 2 years ago. So I know it can be done.

Searched around a bit and seemed to find that adapters exist.


https://www.betd.co.uk/product_list.asp?CategoryID=169



http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=34925


Also, you should read this:

http://www.parktool.com/repair/readhowto.asp?id=68

(hey, looks like a Giant!)


for 1":
http://www.nashbar.com/profile.cfm?sku=13685&srccode=1067

Thanks Phantoj, I'll take a look at those adapters.

The park tool page you linked to is the same one I referred to a couple postings ago (the one that told me I need a zero stack headset).

After thinking about it, I'm going to sell the headset and fork I have anyways. The selection of forks in 1.125 is much larger than 1", so this has turned out to be a good thing. Hopefully I'll only lose a couple bucks in the process.

Thanks again!

I don't know anything about your frame, but you can't put a 1.125 fork on a frame that takes a 1". You can't switch from integrated headsets to non integrated. Your fork's geometry is probably set for your touring frame, so you may not be able to switch that easily. Finally, your fork is probably made to take tires 28mm or wider. Most aftermarket forks take 25mm max. Does the fork take caliper or cantilever brakes?

Phil, you don't seem to know much about anything (like, low gearing is only intended for people climbing the Alps) or that caliper/canty brakes somehow determine the type of headset one must use.. In fact you can put a 1.125" fork in a frame that shipped with a 1" fork (in these cases), because it uses a zero stack headset, that comes in both sizes (after switching the size of the zero stack, the 1.125 can be used). Thanks, but please stop responding to threads you have know idea about. How do I now know this? One way was to read the thread, (intended to those who actually own these bikes, so they know what they are talking about, and don't end up looking like a dumba## repeatedly - or those who are actually correct in their assumptions from time to time), Another way is to read. Try it. The information is on this thread, and the links provided. You've said nothing useful. Thanks for coming out. Go down to the LBS and hang out with a few kids, I'm sure they'll be impressed.

Dear genius, sorry I have offended you, but if you ask a stupid question you may get a stupid answer. Post a picture of you bike when you finish it.
Despite your vast knowledge, if you replace the fork, you had better take into account the rake, type of brake and tire clearance, not just whether its integrated or threadless.
Good luck.

Lol, am I the one pretending to have knowledge? Nope, I believe I'm the one asking questions. But I'm sure you make many feel smarter. And thanks for passing on the fact that there are other issues when building a bike, you are uniquely aware of this fact. You haven't offended me, my intent was to offend you. :) Try reading what I wrote again.

And I'll definitely post pics! :)

Even after having probably 75 bikes over the last 15 years from tandems to recumbents to mountain to road to touring, from 7 speed Suntour to 10 speed Campy, triples and doubles, 1 inch quill headsets to integrated, hydraulic disc brakes to standard reach and short reach calipers to cantilevers, to hand building tubular road wheels and clinchers, I stand in awe of your knowledge.
Keep calling people names, it makes the forum a better place.

Even after having probably 75 bikes over the last 15 years from tandems to recumbents to mountain to road to touring, from 7 speed Suntour to 10 speed Campy, triples and doubles, 1 inch quill headsets to integrated, hydraulic disc brakes to standard reach and short reach calipers to cantilevers, to hand building tubular road wheels and clinchers, I stand in awe of your knowledge.
Keep calling people names, it makes the forum a better place.

Wow, you're rich! How can I be more like you? :)

You could shut up and ride.

Ouch! If I buy 75 bikes will I be a good rider? Will I be able to answer "stupid questions" from newbies, with something other than "stupid answers?" Here's hoping...

I don't know anything about your frame, but you can't put a 1.125 fork on a frame that takes a 1".

The head tube on the OCR Touring certainly seems big enough for a 1-1/8" - that's what I'd use if I were replacing my fork.


You can't switch from integrated headsets to non integrated.

One of the links I posted had adapters to use non-integrated headsets in a Giant "zero-stack" head tube.



Your fork's geometry is probably set for your touring frame, so you may not be able to switch that easily. Finally, your fork is probably made to take tires 28mm or wider. Most aftermarket forks take 25mm max. Does the fork take caliper or cantilever brakes?


I don't think the original poster has the original fork. He should, IMO, get a 1-1/8" threadless with disc brake mounts, since the OCR-T is a disc-ready frame.

I don't see the need to respond with such meanness to the newbie questions. Maybe there's a history here that I'm not grasping.


I think the original poster has a Cannondale T800, so I don't see why he's building this OCR Touring, unless he's crazy about disc brakes. (As an all-weather commuter, I AM!) But I think he's been warned of the dangers of building already. So let him learn and try on his own, or offer help. But there's nothing gained by sniping at him.

Hey Phantoj,

Thanks for the help again, the issue is all solved now (wouldnt have gotten this far without your help). I ended up getting a zero stack headset and a Nashbar touring fork (disc-ready). It's all good.

I should add that though I purposely bought a frame capable of disc brakes, I was initially leaning towards using v-brakes (even with the travel agent issue), but have now decided on cantis. A few reasons why, primarily going with advice from other tourers in the touring forum (though I'm not ruling out a front disc in the future - I like having the option of going with discs or not).

The T800 that I've posted about was not mine. I was going to do a tour this month and a friend was nice enough to lend me their bike which they rarely ride. I got to use it for a month (just around town) and decided that I wanted a touring frame of my own. So I bought the frame (sans fork and headset) off the bay and have been learning how to build a bike since (its been about three weeks now I think). It's going well, and I'm almost done buying everything. It has stayed within my expected price range so I'm pretty happy (was also given a few parts). Someone also bought the 1" headset I bought on the bay today (got out of that mistake unscathed). Since the tour this month was going to be my first, I got a little scared by the weather in upstate NY, and bailed. (Shhhhh)

Phil and I just don't see eye-to-eye. I could have probably handled it better. These are the days of our lives... :)

Take it easy and thanks again.

I've got another question for fellow OCR Touring owners - what is the maximum tire size you've been able to get on them? Right now I'm using 700x38 tires. Fender size? I want to get fenders, and obviously want the biggest I can fit. Any chance I could fit 700x50mm fenders? (fingers crossed)

Where can I measure to determine this? (most interested in the max fender size, as I'm content with the 700x38s I've got on the bike now).

Thanks

I've got the stock Michelin Dynamics at 700 X 32 under SKS/ESGE Chromoplastic P45 45mm fenders. It's a pretty snug fit... might be able to go a little wider on the fenders.

think I could do 50mm fenders?

think I could do 50mm fenders?

Yeah... looks like my 45's have a little extra room. Check the width at the seatstays and the fork. (I have the stock fork, but you don't, so check it.)

Down at the chainstays, width doesn't matter because my fenders taper there anyway.

AND i guess you can trim to fit if needs be.

Thanks Phantoj! That was what I was looking for (I didn't know where to measure). What kinds of brakes are you using? I'm wondering if Tektro Oryx cantis will have any clearance issues with 50mm fenders.

I'm using Avid Road BB7. :D (mechanical disc)

Oh, ok. I'm going to put discs on my Pugsley, but I've read that using discs while touring can lead to heat issues on steep descents. I actually haven't bought my cantis yet (waiting to get the fenders in first) - Do you tour with your bike? Do you experience heat issues on longer tours?

Phil and I just don't see eye-to-eye. I could have probably handled it better.


That's for darn sure, especially in light of the fact that a) he was trying to help you and b) he has FAR more right to call himself a "senior member" than you do, given the fact that you've been on the forums for a MONTH.

You won't be getting any help or advice from many of the people who see how you respond to someone who doesn't happen to phrase things just the way you like. You really need to learn not to be so incredibly rude. We don't treat each other like that here.

Go ahead, flame me now.

Oh, ok. I'm going to put discs on my Pugsley, but I've read that using discs while touring can lead to heat issues on steep descents. I actually haven't bought my cantis yet (waiting to get the fenders in first) - Do you tour with your bike? Do you experience heat issues on longer tours?

I thought it was the other way around - running rim brakes would cause your tires to blow off from the heat on long descents.

I don't tour with my bike; I commute with it. I like my discs because I have a big hill on my commute. I come screaming down it every morning at 35-45 mph, and the discs give strong and reliable stopping power in all weather. I ride in the rain, and my rims are clean and pristine.

That's for darn sure, especially in light of the fact that a) he was trying to help you and b) he has FAR more right to call himself a "senior member" than you do, given the fact that you've been on the forums for a MONTH.

You won't be getting any help or advice from many of the people who see how you respond to someone who doesn't happen to phrase things just the way you like. You really need to learn not to be so incredibly rude. We don't treat each other like that here.

Go ahead, flame me now.
I don't miss the advice from people who don't know what they are talking about (and yes, I figured that out in less than a month of seeing his responses to my questions), whether they have been here for years or months. I respect seniors because I expect them to have wisdom (9 times out of 10 they do), without it, they get treated as any child would. Their opinions won't be missed (in fact, I just add them to my ignore list).

I've had helpful responses from enough knowledgeable people who do seem to know how to talk to people anyways.

:)

I thought it was the other way around - running rim brakes would cause your tires to blow off from the heat on long descents.

I don't tour with my bike; I commute with it. I like my discs because I have a big hill on my commute. I come screaming down it every morning at 35-45 mph, and the discs give strong and reliable stopping power in all weather. I ride in the rain, and my rims are clean and pristine.

Dont' quote me on that Phantoj, I'm just repeating what I've read on the touring forum. As a commuter, I'd probably get them too. But enough people have told me that the cantis are my best bets for touring, so I'm going to go with that advice. I'm not trying to dissuade you or anything like that.

One way I know he didn't know anything was by this:


I don't know anything about your frame... (and then goes on to make completely false statments)

The earlier indication I had of his ability to "help" was his belief that mountain gearing on a touring bike was only for those that ride the Alps.

Yes, I figured out that he was incorrect in both cases in less than a month! If that makes me a "genius" here, oh well.

I'm sure you'll consider my pointing out of these errors as flaming. If any member feels another member has acted inappropriatly, there is a link to voice such a concern.

Dont' quote me on that Phantoj, I'm just repeating what I've read on the touring forum.

I searched the Touring forum for "disc" and found this thread:

http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=230725&highlight=disc

Seems pretty pro-disc.

I searched the Touring forum for "disc" and found this thread:

http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=230725&highlight=disc

Seems pretty pro-disc.
Yeah, there are pro disc supporters on the touring forum (not saying everyone doesn't like them, just saying that most people use cantis on their tourers), I don't think it compares to the number of pro canti posts though.

I was swayed by these posts (on "overheating") in the touring forum (regarding discs). Searching for cantis would give too many results.

http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=75496&highlight=overheating
http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=39367&highlight=overheating
http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=98780&highlight=overheating
http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=140818&highlight=overheating

Edit: But I don't want to say that I know. Because I'm just learning, I'm following the advice of those that have done a lot of touring and helped me personally. Cyccomute, Machka, and others use cantis, so I do.

Yeah, there are pro disc supporters on the touring forum (not saying everyone doesn't like them, just saying that most people use cantis on their tourers), I don't think it compares to the number of pro canti posts though.

I was swayed by these posts (on "overheating") in the touring forum (regarding discs). Searching for cantis would give too many results.

http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=75496&highlight=overheating
http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=39367&highlight=overheating
http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=98780&highlight=overheating
http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=140818&highlight=overheating

Edit: But I don't want to say that I know. Because I'm just learning, I'm following the advice of those that have done a lot of touring and helped me personally. Cyccomute, Machka, and others use cantis, so I do.

I didn't see anything in the threads you linked to that suggested that the overheating danger was worse with discs than with rim brakes. Since I have zero touring experience, you're welcome to go whichever way you want, but what I saw in threads on the Touring forum is that most tourers (tourists) who have used discs like them a lot.

I plan on selling my OCR-T when I leave wet Washington State and go back to Saint Louis. I don't see a huge advantage for discs in dry conditions.

I didn't see anything in the threads you linked to that suggested that the overheating danger was worse with discs than with rim brakes. Since I have zero touring experience, you're welcome to go whichever way you want, but what I saw in threads on the Touring forum is that most tourers (tourists) who have used discs like them a lot.

I plan on selling my OCR-T when I leave wet Washington State and go back to Saint Louis. I don't see a huge advantage for discs in dry conditions.
Which kind of rim brakes are you talking about? Cantis or V's? To my surprise, one poster says there is a difference in the overheating issue (between vs and cantis, I'm talking only about cantis).

Also, it seems as though most high end touring bikes, don't come with discs. I think a simple post on the forum "Which are more popular on touring bikes: vs, cantis or discs and why?" would answer this.

Why are you leaving Washington State? I've only been once but loved it. Though the St. Louis Blues aren't a bad hockey team to cheer for. :)

Which kind of rim brakes are you talking about? Cantis or V's? To my surprise, there is a difference in the overheating issue (between vs and cantis, I'm talking only about cantis).

I think a simple post on the forum "Which are more popular on touring bikes: vs, cantis or discs and why?" would answer this.

Why are you leaving Washington State? I've only been once but loved it. Though the St. Louis Blues aren't a bad hockey team to cheer for. :)

They have an OK baseball team, too. I thought the Blues were doing pretty crummy lately, but I don't follow hockey.

I'm in WA for a temporary work assignment. StL is home for me.



I don't see why cantis or V's would differ from each other in rim overheating problems - unless cantis are just too weak to heat the rim much - but I really have no experience with overheating or touring. My basic rule is to set your bike up to suit you. Cantilevers, V's and discs have been used with success; pick the one you like.

You might have to notch out your 50mm fenders to make them work, but I don't see how that would be a huge problem.

They have an OK baseball team, too. I thought the Blues were doing pretty crummy lately, but I don't follow hockey.

I'm in WA for a temporary work assignment. StL is home for me.



I don't see why cantis or V's would differ from each other in rim overheating problems - unless cantis are just too weak to heat the rim much - but I really have no experience with overheating or touring. My basic rule is to set your bike up to suit you. Cantilevers, V's and discs have been used with success; pick the one you like.

You might have to notch out your 50mm fenders to make them work, but I don't see how that would be a huge problem.

The last time I was following the Blues was a while ago, but what I liked about them was the fans. Very supportive (at the time anyways).

About the overheating issue, I can't explain the differences, and if I tried, I could be accused of spreading less-than-accurate information, something which you probably notice I loathe. :) I have no experience on the subject and anything I said would have holes. I think (stress think), it has something to do with the positioning of the brakes on the rim (one sits higher than the other). I'm pretty sure this was in one of the threads I posted above though.

I completely agree that one should get a bike that suits oneself. Unfortunately, as a newbie...I don't know. So I'm going with cantis (cheap, semi-serviceable when alone on a deserted road, etc). I did intially want to get discs (because of the stopping power, and that they are the latest and greatest - I do enjoy innovation), but was persuaded against them. I will keep discs in mind though, and have already been told that if I feel I need more stopping power in the future to throw a disc on the front. I'm going to wait and see.

Run both and you can make A-B comparisons on the downhills! And look like a freak, too!

Run both and you can make A-B comparisons on the downhills! And look like a freak, too!

:D http://sheldonbrown.com/harris/surly-rohloff/pages/1-rightside.html

I've had helpful responses from enough knowledgeable people who do seem to know how to talk to people anyways.

:)

Too bad you don't know how to talk to people. Maybe someday you'll learn, Mr. Senior Member.:rolleyes:

I bow to your greatness! :)