Touring - Free standing vs. non free standing tents

I know the difference but would like to know how many times a free standing tent has been necessary for you. I have both but my non free standing tent is much lighter and I am leaning towards this tent for a two month trip. Convince me otherwise.

I personally like non-freestanding tents for unsupported touring. They are dramatically lighter and unless you need a lot of room and quick-setup, I would receommend them over freestanding. For fully supported touring, I would pick my freestanding tent.

With a good set of stakes, there's very few cases where you need to have a freestanding tent. And even freestanding tents should be staked down in windy conditions.

Most tents come with soft aluminum stakes that bend easily in compacted or rocky soil. A good outdoor store will have replacement stakes that are much stiffer and durable.

With a good set of stakes, there's very few cases where you need to have a freestanding tent. And even freestanding tents should be staked down in windy conditions.

Most tents come with soft aluminum stakes that bend easily in compacted or rocky soil. A good outdoor store will have replacement stakes that are much stiffer and durable.

I don't think the issue between freestanding and non-freestanding is one of staking. As you've said, all tents should be staked. I do so regardless of wind condition. However, freestanding tents do generally offer more room but they're also heavier. Also, they are (at least for me) quicker to set up.

one little advantage for the free-standing tents. If you happen to be able to pitch your tent under a pavalion that has a concrete or paved base, you can set up the tent without any problems.

how many times a free standing tent has been necessary for you.

Never.

Freestanding for me, and I have had quite a few occasions when it has repaid itself with rocky ground or concrete pad. Plus the additional space inside for gear is a major plus. What weight difference are we talking about? The difference between my freestanding and non-freestanding is in footprint area, one aluminium tent pole and maybe four alloy pegs (which have been very durable).

What weight difference are we talking about?

Maybe I just have really cheap freestanding tents or maybe they've come out with newer lighter weight ones but my freestanding tent weighs around 2-3 lbs more than my non-freestanding one.

I have put lines on the corners of my non-freestanding tent so I can tie off to posts/ and tables when I need to set up on some sort of a platform and can't use stakes.

i am under the impression that while you should still stake down a freestanding tent, you must ALWAYS stake down a non-freestanding. something to keep in mind should you forget a stake or two at last night's campground.

i'd go for the free standing. some light ones are out there that offer a fair amount of room, should you decide to wait out bad weather in your tent. checkout the big agnes seedhouse sl1, or the sl2 for two people.

Put me down for another vote for freestanding. I think much depends on the tent you purchase regarding weight or bulk. I have a 10 year old Eureka Skylite (a.k.a. Hobbit??) which offers reasonable ventilation, light weight, small pack size and is free standing. And yes, I've used the tent without stakes and I find that to be an advantage -not just in terms of putting it up inside a building or on a stake proof base, but also in terms of the speed of putting it together and having somewhere to thrown the gear in very quickly. This can be a great advantage in mosquito infested areas.

That's not to say non-free standing tents are bad (very very very few occasions where I didn't need to put in stakes, but as I said, there are more advantages than that). Your own personal choice I guess.

On another note. Has anyone used the Topeak Bikamper? It uses the bike frame and front wheel to support the tent structure at either end. This makes for a really light tent that folds over very compactly.

http://www.deanwoods.com.au/store/images/topeak_bikamper_04.jpghttp://www.cyclestore.co.uk/images/products/large/6650.jpghttp://www.bikesomewhere.com/images/big/bikamper.jpg

That Topeak tent is the worse thing money can buy.

Supertick isn't looking for a new tent. S/he's just wondering which one to take. A freestanding tent is handy but for a two month trip, I'd choose the lighter alternative. When I face a platform with a non-freestanding tent, I just pitch beside it.

That Topeak tent is the worse thing money can buy.

Why? I'm just curious as it looks to be an interesting approach. The biggest problem I'd see with it is that you can't pitch base camp and then go off riding since your bike is part of the tent.

The other side of this argument is the whole tent vs. hammock thing. A hammock requires really specific pitching conditions even compared to a non-freestanding tent, and yet they seem to get more popular every day. Goes to show it's all hype. As others have mentioned the freestanding tents are great shelters, like the old oval intention you could lean against.

Carry a few anchors as well as the pegs, anchors will hold well were pegs are terrible. The one I have are made out of wire, imagine a 4" coat hanger where the hook and twist section is cut off leaving a triangle, and one side is cut off leaving just enough bend to hold your line. The long end anchors in the soil. Google the Black Diamond Spectre to get an idea of what is required, though at 35 bucks each, it isn't happening at my end.

I think it is mostly an identity product where the tent just yells "bike tourist", it isn't "their" tent, it's our tent.

That's the main problem with the Topeak, the linking your bike to the site thing, however that is generally how I tent anyway, I drive till after dark then set up and crash, no disco for me.

Also you may have to choose how you get your bike security, what if the best place to tent isn't near something to lock your bike to.

There is the whole, I drove my bike through bear poop to get to this site, do I really want to smear it all over my tent in some other bear's territory, or at all.

Is there a stealth colour? I can't think of a good reason for this thing being yellow unless I set it up on the road.

Also wonder how it works with road bars and lowrider racks.

My current bike tent is an MSR, and it's 20 inches long. I like the size this Topeak tent packs to just for cleaning up the carry options. I also like the fact that Topeak is trying to be a touring company, most supliers, all the magazines, pretty much ignore us.

http://www.eurobike-exhibition.de/html/en/supporting_programme/award/review/review.php

seems to be an honorable mention.

http://en.red-dot.org/282+M5f5a25b8eea.html

Another award. Check out the wind powered bike lamp while you are there.

"If Nicole Kidman had one in BMX Bandits, the movie wouldn't have flopped. "

http://www.thecoolhunter.net/lifestyle/THE-BIKAMPER/

I looked around a bit on the web, and couldn't find anyone who had actually used it. Would be interested if anyone has. Most people are just jumping on the obvious fact the bike is connected to the tent. That just isn't a problem for some. Things like the fact that you can't use it to hold your site apply to say bivy bags or hammocks, and anyway usually there is a registration system. This design seems to draw fire, whih isn't good for it's longevity.

Worst point so far is that it costs as if it has poles but it doesn't. if they priced it more than a bivy less than a similar square foot of cloth tent, it would probably be worth it.

Why? I'm just curious as it looks to be an interesting approach. The biggest problem I'd see with it is that you can't pitch base camp and then go off riding since your bike is part of the tent.

That's one pretty big problem right there. You can tell it's a bad tent on the first look. Good tents look like a cocoon from the outside. The Topeak looks like a sail. It will catch wind and throw the bike down, possibly on your head.

It looks very akward to set-up. It must take a long time too. Does it work with 700c wheels? (apparently not) It needs more staking down than my non-freestanding tent. How do you keep the bike steady? Will I have to adjust the saddle's height for the tent? My bike can't be put like that without the front wheel because the fender gets in the way, even with the front rack on. It's also heavier and smaller than some one-person freestanding tents so there is really no point in buying it.

I wouldn't put much faith in "design" and "bike" awards either. For tents, look at what backpackers use.

one more thing. If you plan on putting up a tent on the sand near a beach, a free standing tent is much better. Ordinary tent stakes don't work well in soft sand at all. I know because I remember pitching a non-free-standing tent on the Outer Banks of NC at Oregon Inlet and had to purchase deep stakes in order for my tent to stay in place.

Still with a free-standing tent, there will be nights where putting down stakes will be required.

I did my longest tour on a non-free-standing tent. The next real long one will be with a free standing tent and I'll accept the little bit of extra weight.

Cheers

first my disclaimer: I have never actually USED a freestanding tent.

my take on this is:
i want some room in my tent to live in when it's bad weather.
i want to have room for my panniers outside my inner tent.
i want to be able to cook inside my tent when the weather is VERY bad

these things are (in my personal opinion) very hard (read heavy) to accomplish in a
freestanding tent.
while they are easy in a 'simple', non-freestanding tent (like my hilleberg namatj gt).

furthermore: even non-freestanding tents can often be staked with only a few (3, 4) stakes, or anchorpoints.

as i said, just my personal opinion.

have a nice day
jurjan

to the OP;

bring the lighter, non free standing tent. i assume it is a hoop type, like a clip flashlight or an MSR zoid, or a kelty lightyear or zen?

leave the heavy tent at home.

-recommend bringing a siliconized nylon tarp to make a living room space for when it is rainy out, and to pitch over the picnic table or bike cover for night- a 6x8 or 8x10 siltarp packs up to about the size of a large orange.

and that topeak tent- HAHAHAHAHAHA. I pity the fool.........

The difference of a pound or two will be completely irrelevant if touring by bike. If you were hiking, it would be a factor. You're not, so scratch pack weight off your list of reasons to take the non-free standing tent.

Therefore, take the one that is more comfortable, which I'm guessing is the free-standing one.

Which one can you get in faster when the mosquitos are swarming or the rain has turned to sleet or hail is another consideration.

I don't put any weight on the awards either, particularly when it appears they didn't win one of them.

I think though that a lot of people are guessing about the design. For instance the website says it does work with 700c. Some of the other coment I saw by non-users where that it would get the tent dirty on the iside putting the tent up, while it actually looks like the wheel zips in from the outside (?). Someone else mentioned (and this worried me) that one would get greased up sliding past the bike, while it appears to be a side entry. Others complained it was just as easy to put it up with sticks, which if so go for it and tear up the town on those occasions where.

I also worry about the seat height thing, since there isn't any way I am adjusting my seat every time I set up my tent, my seat position is way more important. On my current bike it's set up so that my low-riders support the front end when the wheel is off, so I wouldn't have a problem. That's enough fender to stop every drop of water.

Anyway, so far, nobody seems to like this tent, so I think they are doomed on this side of the water.

I don't agree about doing what the backpackers do. A different situation in many cases. I don't think the idea of a cycling specific tent is a bad one, or a new one. We used to sell them back in the early 80s.

The size of this is tent is small for the weight (3pounds, 9oz total). It only has a height of 72cm. You have to remove your front wheel, which for a lot of bikes means having to deflate it, especially a mountain bike. Then if your tire is wet, you've got a wet muddy wheel inside the tent. You've also got to drive the front forks into the ground. The fly doesn't even completely cover the tent, meaning it isn't great in a rainstorm with wind.

You can buy a cheaper lighter tent with the same size with a lot less effort to put up. The tent I used when I toured is lighter than this thing. At the end of the day, you really don't want a tent that takes a lot to set up. You'll want a quick setup.

Here is Kelty one person tent.http://www.campmor.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?productId=38470366&memberId=12500226

--

And yes, like the above poster said you'll want a tent you can assemble really quick. In fact, it's a good idea to practice a few times putting it up and down. I got mine so well down, I can assemble it in the dark without a flashlight.

It is the same weight as the biketent but gives you more sit up room and much easier to assemble and disassemble. It's also half the price and the fly completely covers the tent. It's not a standalone tent but real easy to rig.

This link list a bunch of 1-man lightweight tents.
http://www.campmor.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/CategoryDisplay?catalogId=40000000226&storeId=226&categoryId=45752&langId=-1&parent_category_rn=250

The size of this is tent is small for the weight (3pounds, 9oz total). It only has a height of 72cm. You have to remove your front wheel, which for a lot of bikes means having to deflate it, especially a mountain bike. Then if your tire is wet, you've got a wet muddy wheel inside the tent. You've also got to drive the front forks into the ground. The fly doesn't even completely cover the tent, meaning it isn't great in a rainstorm with wind.
Yes. I think a big issue is setup and teardown time. It seems rather lengthy. The more I think about it, the more I think that the concept is fine (for some) but the implementation does need some refinement. FWIW, I've never used the product. I have an old Kelty Clark that's been pretty good.

As far as removing the tyre from a MTB... I'm not sure how you run your brakes but I've run as large as 2.5" knobbies with V-brakes and have never had to deflate the tyres to get them on and off. Those running discs don't even have to worry about releasing the brakes. On my roadbike with 700x23, the brake release works fine. I imagine running something larger might pose a problem but I've yet to see a properly set up bike where one has to deflate the tyres to remove the wheel. this of course assumes people aren't trying to cram a tyre that's larger than for what the brake arms were designed.

GPS, you make a lot of good points:

It does look larger than My micro zoid, by a lot, the ends are blunt which is a lot more roomy. In a lot of ways weight isn't such a big deal, I agree with all who say droping the pole weight is pretty trivial, but most tents of good quality use the same family of materials, so lighter tents are either less durable or smaller.

- Front fork in one picture I saw seemed to be resting in a yoke. Which would make sense.

- Again I think the tent zips in the wheel from the outside. There is a ring like zip in one photo, probably on their site.

- The fly coverage is at least what the Hennesey has, and it depends on what the other fabrics do for you. Are the exposed fabrics waterproof or not. I have successfully used wider tents with no fly, in the rain. So it comes down to the overall design for rain and ventilation.

Anyway, just further evidence this tent stinks up any room it enters, as far as cyclists are concerned. I'd love to hear from someone who had at least seen one.

I know the difference but would like to know how many times a free standing tent has been necessary for you. I have both but my non free standing tent is much lighter and I am leaning towards this tent for a two month trip. Convince me otherwise.


Supertick:

despite all the talk about the topeak tent...

use what you prefer. if you are used to the non-freestanding and staking it down every night is not a problem for you, use your non-free =standing tent.

if you prefer to be able to forget about staking every once in a while, take the freestanding.


the choice should be clear to you.

The difference of a pound or two will be completely irrelevant if touring by bike. If you were hiking, it would be a factor. You're not, so scratch pack weight off your list of reasons to take the non-free standing tent.


What is this magical property of bicycles that defies the laws of gravity and makes pack weight irrelevant?

What is this magical property of bicycles that defies the laws of gravity and makes pack weight irrelevant?
Comfort.

I admire people who plan to spend their nights in the equivalent of a cocoon to save weight. Maybe I am getting too old for that sort of lark, and to me it is more important to enjoy comfort on a long tour (and remember, we are talking about a two-month tour, not a fast two or three-day trip).

I have spent many, many nights in tents in the past five or six years (in fact, around six consecutive months in the past year), and most of them have been in a two-person freestanding tent that I have lugged all over the world. I have spent a much smaller number of nights in small non-freestanding tents, and have been less than comfortable, and that has not been worth the weight trade-off. I would go so far as to say I would mourn the theft of my tent far more than the loss of my bike, because it is no longer made. FWIW, I toured Northern Europe for a month in 2003 with two panniers, my tent and a handlebar bag and was entirely comfortable the whole time. Admittedly, one of the critical parameters was airline weight, but still...

Certainly, for a two-month journey, I wouldn't consider anything where (a) I couldn't get everything off my bike and me into the tent or in the vestibules, (b) I couldn't erect the tent freestanding, (c) I couldn't at least sit up and take off a T-shirt without having to crouch forwards and (d) I couldn't spend a cold and wet day or two snuggled up without feeling claustrophobic.

This weight issue sounds too much like the old racer weight-weenie thing. If your bike (13kg), equipment (24kg), non-freestanding one-person tent (2kg), plus you (85kg) weigh 122kg, then the addition of 1.5kg of additional weight for an alternative freestanding two-person tent (the equivalent of two bidons of water) means an increase of just 1.2%. It is likely that a rider will either lose 1.5kg of body weight or send home impractical, unusable wishlist items in the first two weeks of a long tour, anyway. So the extra weight of a comfortable tent becomes irrelevant. An uncomfortable "light" tent in unfavourable conditions, however, can lead to lack of enthusiasm to continue when mental resources are low.

In addition, bicycles have wheels and the vertical load on the rider is zero (assuming there is no backpack). The riders uses only the legs to overcome the weight. The issues of weight are far, far less important than for hikers/bushwalkers where gravity plays havoc with knees, backs, shoulders and lungs.

Why would a freestanding tent be more comfortable? The reason hoop tents like the SD Clip Flashlight are still sold is precisely because they offer the same comfort for less weight. They're also quicker to set-up and do better in the wind. You mention "small non-freestanding"... They don't have to be small! And when I said "cocoon" before, it's in regard to the appearence from the outside, not the size.

BTW, in the sand, you have to dig a little, put the stake in and cover back with sand. Worked for me under continuous 60km/h straight-on wind. The tent never budged.

Some freestanding tents have a much more comfortable interior space, often the architecture is more pleasing, and there is the condidence that comes fromt he fact that they aren't going to fall down because a guy pulls. If tunnel is a nice shape because of the circular cross-section, then it's even better in three dimensions. However tents in that class are pretty heavy.

The hoop tents have a tremendous reputation for strength, probably the best extreme conditions mountain tents over the years (along with VE24 derivatives), notwithstanding the guys.

I like freestanding tents. I find them light enough. Easier to pitch, less tolerant of careless or nonexistant staking, more roomy for the same footprint.

The head and shoulder room is increased over that of a nonfreestanding because the top and sides are convex rather than concave.

One other thing I like is that I can turn the whole thing upside down (still assembled) so the bottom can dry in the sun for a while while I cook and eat breakfast (or in the afternoon when pitching camp). You got to watch it though. The whole thing can blow away if not tied or staked to something!

hoop tents have been my prefferred choice over 25 + years of serious backountry excursions on all terrain including sand and snow. there is no time i have felt disadvantaged using a hoop tent, even inside pitches and on pads. bring some paracord.

i have owned geodesic and other freestanding tents but always like the pitch and ease of hoop tents. you can do the same drying trick described above with a hoop tent.

a well designed hoop tent can have MORE room for LESS weight. a four season hoop tent sticks like a limpet when its stormy out.

the one person hoop tents are always a bit tiny, just having a standard two person model is still plenty light. for anyone that hasn't bought a good tent yet, just pick up a Hilleberg Nallo or other hoop tent of some variety, if you're in Europe consider the North Face Westwind - these lightweight hoop tents give you lots of room for the weight and outfit you ready for anything up to expeditions across Greenland, climbing Denali or a 8,000M peak.


of course, you can go a little bit lighter because theres a fair amount of good, lighter weight three season hoop tents by different manufacturers. a MSR Zoid 2 would be a great tent for a solo bicyclist in warmer weather.the Sierra Designs Clip Flashlight, Mountain Hardware PCT or other, double wall tent, not their funky one layer tents- avoid.

anyway, i'd just go non freestanding if you're leaning that way. there's nothing wrong with them and they're not much of a disadvantage at all.

My friend and I have been shopping around for tents, and haven't really given much though to non-freestanding tents (that seems like a redundant phrase). perhaps one of the reasons is because mountain equipment co-op does not really offer them (I could be wrong on this, but I've never seen one there). I have never stayed in a non-freestanding tent either and frankly didn't know it was really an option.

That being said, we tested out pretty much every tent they had at the store, and given the length of the trip, all of the 2 person tents were too small for our liking (We need our space and don't want to hate eachother by the end of the tour), and all the larger tents either had poor ventilation or were heavy or loud coloured. We pretty much settled on the Big Agnes Seedhouse SL3. Its got enough room for us to sprawl out with our gear, sit up straight (I'm tall), its got a green fly with a mesh interior (so good for stealth camping, ventilation and star gazing), plus the weight split between the two of us is negligible.

Sorry for the hijack.

I think some people will scoff at me and the idea but although I generally use a 1-person hoop-style non-freestanding tent, I did do a couple of tours using a cheapie (~$40) Coleman 2-person dome tent. This actually worked out fairly well. The tent was heavy though (~8lbs) but it was large and roomy on the inside allowing me to store my bike inside the tent at nights. For fully-supported tours, it's still my tent of choice.

I think some people will scoff at me and the idea but although I generally use a 1-person hoop-style non-freestanding tent, I did do a couple of tours using a cheapie (~$40) Coleman 2-person dome tent. This actually worked out fairly well. The tent was heavy though (~8lbs) but it was large and roomy on the inside allowing me to store my bike inside the tent at nights. For fully-supported tours, it's still my tent of choice.
I'm not going to scoff... my first long-distance tour in 1997 was with THREE-person cheapie tent and the only problems were of my own making -- I halved the length of the fibreglass poles, which in turn led to some ferrule and splitting problems. Other than that, it was a faithful servant on that 37-day ride and various other shorter tours until I moved "up market". It was fairly heavy, but really I don't notice that weight thing much.

I should point out that I am not particularly keen on the newer generation of tents, many of which seem to rely on an odd and complicated collection of poles to keep their shape (freestanding or not). My enthusiasm for my Mountain Designs Hutt (New Zealand made I think) is that it is a simple dome with two aluminium poles, and vestibules on both sides (although the rear does not provide access). It's also a side-entry design, which to me is a great plus, and there are no pockets to find and thread poles through.

Freestanding for 1 reason: Fairgrounds.
Witha free standing tent, you can pitch under covered areas with concrete bases or even inside buildings (that aren't exactly clean enough to want to sleep in without the tent) for poor weather.
Very nice, cheaper and better than a campgroup and much cheaper than a hostel/motel in lightining.

one little advantage for the free-standing tents. If you happen to be able to pitch your tent under a pavalion that has a concrete or paved base, you can set up the tent without any problems.
I think all posters here are well aware of pros and cons of both. I myself carry thick nylon strings to tie my hoop tent to chair, post etc, when I have opportunity to pitch it under roof (pavillion is my favourite). With the fly off, it's heavenly. But sometime it's just impossible to find anchor points. Eventually I'll get a super light Big Agness. My Eurika Back country isn't as compact as it's catalogue specs claim to be.

I use a single hoop non freestanding tent. There is a problem when staking it down in sand. However touring with a BOB trailer solves that problem. The tent only really needs staking down at both ends, so I tie some lines on one end to the BOB trailer, and the other end goes to the bike.

shiznaz, leaving out all the tarp tents, and bivy shelters and hammocaks MEC sell, there is the: Hummingbird 2 and 3. The MSR Microzoid, MSR Zoid 2.

A lot of the self supporting tents are going to require some guys to stay put, there was one 2 person I was looking at that was really nice, but it was a bit like a chute in design. and several/most of the domes have integral vestibules that are not self-supporting, like the funnhouse series, MSR Fury.

What is this magical property of bicycles that defies the laws of gravity and makes pack weight irrelevant?

Leverage.

I know the difference but would like to know how many times a free standing tent has been necessary for you. I have both but my non free standing tent is much lighter and I am leaning towards this tent for a two month trip. Convince me otherwise.

I own both types of tents. I prefer the freestander because:

* It can be erected much more quickly.
* It's much easier to clean. I open the tent door, grab one of the outside, curved tent poles, lift the tent over me head, and shake vigorously. Dirt, grass, etc. come falling out of the tent door.
* I can move my campsite very quickly to avoid, for example, loud-mouthed or drunken humans.
* I like the option of putting the tent virtually anywhere (on wood flooring, for example). In all honesty, though, this has been necessary only a few times.

David in Florida

shiznaz, leaving out all the tarp tents, and bivy shelters and hammocaks MEC sell, there is the: Hummingbird 2 and 3. The MSR Microzoid, MSR Zoid 2.

A lot of the self supporting tents are going to require some guys to stay put, there was one 2 person I was looking at that was really nice, but it was a bit like a chute in design. and several/most of the domes have integral vestibules that are not self-supporting, like the funnhouse series, MSR Fury.

Thanks for the info. I actually got inside these tents but I didn't realize they were freestanding, because they were set up on the floor inside. I guess they just tied them off to shop fixtures. My friend and I both found them a little claustrophobic and would prefer something with more head room. Our only concern with the seedhouse SL3 is durability, but we plan on picking up the additional ground sheet or some other silnylon substitute to keep the floor from wearing, and we may bring an extra tarp to cover the bikes or for extra versatility.

, but we plan on picking up the additional ground sheet or some other silnylon substitute to keep the floor from wearing.
Very good idea and a must.

I've never owned a groundsheet, and never had a problem. I mean if I camped in mountainous above the treeline, desert or otherwise rough areas. But Canada is covered pretty extensively with soft soil, like the stuff the trees grow on. As long as reasonable care is taken, and you don't grind around in there, you should never wear out your tent, assuming you are sleeping in bags and on partial matts. In general my weight goes directly onto the bag and the mat. I am rarely kneeling or lying on the floor. I just hate groundsheets, they add significant weight. can reduce drainage, cost a lot (cure tailored ones), and by the time any wear advantage shows up you have moved onto some other tent. I have tents from the late 70s or early 80s and they are still fine.

Anyway, a hole in your tent is not the end of the world, either on your trip or overall. If it were probable it would be worth prottecting against, but it isn't probable.

I just hate groundsheets, they add significant weight. can reduce drainage, cost a lot (cure tailored ones), and by the time any wear advantage shows up you have moved onto some other tent. I have tents from the late 70s or early 80s and they are still fine.





Groundsheets often weigh very little. I doubt that I could feel the 5.5oz. that my groundsheet adds to my overall load. Plus, it does offer extra security against punctures. Very worth the insignificant weight in my book.

If carrying a light groundsheet, or footprint, is still too heavy, could it be that a tent from the 70's or early 80's is also bulky? How much do these tents way? Because even with a groundsheet, my tent doesn't even weigh three pounds, including tent body, rainfly, poles, stakes, and stuff sack.

A free standing tent can be moved easily to another location, with your stuff in it, in the event of sudden change in weather conditions.

Someone said that 5.5 oz. was insignificant. Maybe. But if you add up all the little items that you don't REALLY need that weigh 5.5 oz. you'll have something significant. My rule is to cut out everything I don't absolutely, positively need. Once I've done that I'll consider one or two "unnecessary items", which are my "luxury items". To me a ground cloth is unnecessary. I've never used one, I've never missed it, and I've never gotten a hole in the bottom of a tent, and I've spent hundreds of nights in tents in my adult life. I know it's possible, because my son put a hole in the bottom of one of our tents. But he is 16 and was camping with 4 other 16-year-old boys, and it was a cheap tent with a bottom made out of the same stuff as blue plastic tarps. I think if you're careful there's little liklihood of putting a hole in your tent bottom.

If I ever put a whole in the bottom of my tent I'll put a duct tape patch on it and continue with my tour.

To me a necessary item on tour is a book. A luxury item is a second book. But what if you finish the first book and don't have a second to start? You'd have to go "bookless" until you get to the next town with a bookstore. That just wouldn't do! I usually start looking for another book when I'm getting to the last couple hundred pages of the one I'm on. When I finish a book on tour I try to give it away to another cyclist so I don't have to carry it. I've also left them in campground bathrooms with "free" signs on them.

Another luxury is buying a hardback book instead of a paperback. But when I stop at bookstores, most of the newer books which catch my eye haven't come out in paperback yet. Hmmm.

I hate it when I finish a book and there are no bookstores in town and I have to buy a book at a supermarket. It's happened. Another time I finished a book at sundown without a backup, and had to ride in the dark into town (3 miles) to buy a book AT A SUPERMARKET! Argh!

Another luxury is buying a hardback book instead of a paperback. But when I stop at bookstores, most of the newer books which catch my eye haven't come out in paperback yet. Hmmm.

I hate it when I finish a book and there are no bookstores in town and I have to buy a book at a supermarket. It's happened. Another time I finished a book at sundown without a backup, and had to ride in the dark into town (3 miles) to buy a book AT A SUPERMARKET! Argh!

Uh, dude, you're addicted! :D