Southern California - Pie ride tuneup: Oct 29

Ride may be cancelled depending on conditions. Stay tuned.

I was thinking that with the Pie ride just a month away, it's about time to get in serious climbing shape. So perhaps this Sunday would be a good time to jump start the process of getting one's climbing in peak form.

[EDIT]

Our route is as follows:

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e359/jsigone/Roadie/Palomar%20Mt/map1copy.jpg

About 80 miles including an optional observatory out and back at the top of Palomar, with most of the climbing front-loaded. Major climbs are Palomar South Grade, the optional climbs to and from the observatory, and the beginning portion of Mesa Grande.

Start location, courtesy of jsigone:


Harrah's Rincon Casino & Resort
777 Harrah's Rincon Way
Valley Center, CA 92082

We will be parking in the lot on the corner where the stop light is facing Valley Center, Not in the parking structure. Look for my lowered Grey Scion XB

Meet at 6:00 AM, roll at 6:30 AM. Don't forget to reset your clock!

Now that we've chosen a route, who's in? :D

rider list
jschen
jsigone
IanInSD
TRAVISD (75%)
madmike (on the fence)

My calendar appears open! Of course, that depends on the amount of elevation gain. :) How much are you thinking?

I was thinking that with the Pie ride just a month away, it's about time to get in serious climbing shape. So perhaps this Sunday would be a good time to jump start the process of getting one's climbing in peak form.

Route (and start time/location) to be decided, but I'll try to feature Palomar since we'll have to climb it early on in the Pie ride, and it's nice to be somewhat familiar with it. We can work it out based on who's in and how everyone feels about their current state of readiness. Possible routes include the following (optional observatory trips on all routes):

climb South Grade, descend East Grade, return the same way (and repeat the whole thing? :eek: )
the Conquer Palomar route (Santa Ysabel to Palomar along Mesa Grande and East Grade and back)
multiple climbs of South Grade
actual Pie route

If you're interested, feel free to voice a preference of routes. Who's in? :D

I'm interested, what's the distance from San Ysabel? I've only ridden motorcycles through there, so distances are on the "compressed" side. Maybe I can finally drag my cousin out since he has his new wheel. :)

My calendar appears open! Of course, that depends on the amount of elevation gain. :) How much are you thinking?
I'm open to various possibilities. Climbing South Grade and East Grade puts the total somewhere in the high 6k's, I think, with about 50 miles. I'm not sure what the Conquer Palomar route has for vertical. I know it's about 60 miles round trip (not including an observatory trip) from Santa Ysabel, and the total vertical probably is lower than simply climbing South Grade and East Grade, but you do have to climb the rather steep lower portion of Mesa Grande on the return trip.

I'm holding 9-10 on Torrey with the bent, and can grind up darn near anything in the county at 4-5mph with the 26/27 and 650c wheels. :)

I'll have to get back to you on this. I don't know how I'm gonna feel this week as far as riding long hours on the bike.

I'm a maybe. I'd like to go but I'm doing some home remodelling on Saturday. Hopefully I'll either be finished or able to talk my wife into finishing the next weekend (while still making the Inland Empire ride).

OK I think I'll ride on sunday. I forgot about the time change thing:(

Here's the route slip I'd like to try pending how we're feeling after the climb up Palomar

Start at the casino
Left on Valley Ctr
Right on 76
Left up the South Grade
Straight at the 4 way to the observatory
Go out and back
Left on to East Grade Decent
Left on 76
Right on Mesa Grande
Right on 79
Stop at San Ysabel for liquid refill
Left on 79
Left on 76
Left on Valley Center
Right into the casino

Topo Route said it's 79 miles, half of that is decents, so should be doable for me. San Ysabel is at the 50 mile maker.

I'm not a fast climber so be warned:o

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e359/jsigone/Roadie/Palomar%20Mt/map1copy.jpg
http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e359/jsigone/Roadie/Palomar%20Mt/PalomartoSanYsiableloop.jpg

That route sounds awesome to me. It's essentially all the hardest climbing of the Pie ride (and heading all the way out to pie) and then an easier way home. Some people have been discussing that route as a possibility for "Pie ride lite" for anyone not up for the full Pie ride. It would be excellent warm-up for the Pie ride, and an excellent route in general. :)

well if they take the short way out they have that 7% grade out of the valley back to their cars at the school and shave only 15 miles or so off the ride.

Yes, but they avoid the rollers on Highland Valley and Lake Wohlford at mile 92 or so (without the observatory trip; about mile 100 with). It's not much easier, but it is ever so slightly easier.

By the way, Jason, I'd love to join on this on Sunday, but I'm riding with the Colavita guys whom I haven't ridden with in a while. They are going to kick me off the team if I keep it up...:o

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e359/jsigone/Roadie/Palomar%20Mt/PalomartoSanYsiableloop.jpg

That is sick. :cry:

it's ALOT of downhill, the back side of Palomar is 13 mile decent:D Then the 76 fork down to the casino is about another 12 miles, so thats 25 miles of decent in just those two hills. Coming back from San Ysabel, there's only 2 good climbs.

I just hope the santa ana winds won't effect us too much:mad:

Damn, another ride we'll have to miss. :(

After this weekend, our schedules open up a bit, so it will be back on the bike!

Hmmm...tempting. Just about the mileage I wanted to do on my Sunday ride. We'll have to see how it goes this week.

I'm not a fast climber so be warned:o


I'm sure you'll make up for it on the descents.

That is sick. :cry:

It's not too bad...after about mile 25 or so, it's all downhill! Right Jason and Jeff?

That looks like fun. Told ya I like to suffer.:D

Yah after the East grade Decent, we'll go up Mesa Grande decend into San Ysable and head back to the cars Via 79 & 76. Theres one short hill on the 79 going back and a bit longer hill on the 76 right before getting to the South Grade fork. I estimate that this is 50% climbing and 50% FAST decents, if not a hair more decents then climbing.

I'm sure you'll make up for it on the descents.

Yah I'll make it up, but no world record or anything:D My legs are still tight for the hammer session I had to endure on Sunday

It's not too bad...after about mile 25 or so, it's all downhill! Right Jason and Jeff?
The major climbs are Palomar South Grade (modestly steep grade, but long) and the beginning of Mesa Grande (very steep, but not very long). And optionally the out and back to the observatory. There's plenty of rollers on Mesa Grande, but they're not really worth mentioning compared to the other climbing. I disagree that the ride is 50% climbing and 50% descending. There's quite a bit of rolling or essentially flat terrain on the way home. I've never done that home stretch, but it should be pretty mellow once we reach pie.

the home strech will be a fast ride as long as the wind isn't too bad on the 79. We should have the wind to a back on the 76 down.

I never rode Mesa Grande so I don't know what is up there.

Yes, the return trip should be fast. If the wind acts up, a bit of pacelining should make it tolerable. Mesa Grande is really steep at the beginning, and then lots of big rollers through very nice scenery. And then a fast descent at the end. As long as we're not fighting massive headwinds on Mesa Grande, it should be a fun ride. (It was a delightful stretch of challenging rollers in January. It was an agonizing battle in September when I re-did the Pie ride solo and faced massive headwinds there.)

FYI - theoretically, if you start and end at the same place, you climb exactly as much as you descend. Otherwise, you'd never find your car, as it'd be in the 5th dimension.

yah I but I'm NOT climbing Palomar twice in one day after going to San Ysabel.


We are suppose to have santa ana winds this weekend........

FYI - theoretically, if you start and end at the same place, you climb exactly as much as you descend. Otherwise, you'd never find your car, as it'd be in the 5th dimension.
In vertical distance, yes. But unless it's an out and back route, in horizontal distance, not necessarily.

jsigone, we'll save repeats of Palomar for some other weekend. :p I still hope to climb it four times in a day someday. dog hair has done it before.

Ehhh...we had Santa Anas last weekend. Just stay behind Jason and Mark, and you'll be fine. If you haven't done much drafting before, it really is an experience.

Ehhh...we had Santa Anas last weekend. Just stay behind Jason and Mark, and you'll be fine. If you haven't done much drafting before, it really is an experience.


just make sure you stay close enough to get the benefit of the draft... anything over a 1/2 to 1 tire length is just a line.... not a draft!

I'm normally the one doing the pulls.....my friends like to stick the big guy up front. But Yah I've drafted before. I just hate 20+mph winds......I had to deal w/ that at the race on Sunday.

Just stay behind Jason and Mark, and you'll be fine.
Don't try to draft a recumbent if you can draft someone else! They don't leave much of a draft. I briefly tried at Grand Tour Lite. There's a psychological advantage of having a rider right in front of you, but there's a minimal reduction in aero resistance.

Okay, given the feedback so far, I think we'll commit to the Pie Lite route. This should be a fun ride. :D jsigone, any thoughts on when you want to start? I'm thinking maybe meet at 6, roll at 6:30, keeping in mind we're rolling the clocks back an hour. It would be like meeting at 7 having not yet rolled back the time. Better to start a bit early and not be rushed in enjoying our hard-earned pie. :)

Don't try to draft a recumbent if you can draft someone else! They don't leave much of a draft. I briefly tried at Grand Tour Lite. There's a psychological advantage of having a rider right in front of you, but there's a minimal reduction in aero resistance.


I drafted a tandem at Stagecoach...that worked quite nicely in the wind there!!!

Yes, drafting tandems works well. Drafting recumbents doesn't work so well. As for big rider in front or in back, both schemes have their advantages. I'm a relatively small rider, but I don't mind doing my share of pulls if the group is of such a speed where my pulls are useful. I don't provide as big a benefit for the person behind me, but I can get nice and aero and try to maintain a decent speed while giving the person behind me a reasonable break, and that person can sit more upright and give the person behind him an even bigger break.

Oh, edited post #1 to reflect the selection of a route and to reflect the fact that with jsigone seemingly committed, we now have critical mass. :)

Now that we've chosen a route, who's in? :D

rider list
jschen
jsigone

Pencil me in as a definite maybe...or not...but perhaps so.

ps. Sure you can draft a recumbent...you just have to get really low.

Okay, given the feedback so far, I think we'll commit to the Pie Lite route. This should be a fun ride. :D jsigone, any thoughts on when you want to start? I'm thinking maybe meet at 6, roll at 6:30, keeping in mind we're rolling the clocks back an hour. It would be like meeting at 7 having not yet rolled back the time. Better to start a bit early and not be rushed in enjoying our hard-earned pie. :)

6am meeting time is good. When you get to Harrah's, turn left at the light and make the first left. This is the parking lot right next to the Harrah's sign. Other roadies typically park here as well.

oh I guess it would be a good time to start riding my roadie again. I havn't rode it since the rained out Baldy ride:eek:

I'll take it out tonight after work and see if I can get a trip to Mt Meadows in.

I've done only one ride since that weekend. :o Well, two if you count the very short ride with my dad just to get him familiar with his bike.

I spent all last week on the MTB to get ready for the last race. Tonight I'll ride the road and tomorrow is MTB Night ( I still need to fix my flat I got from the race). I'm riding Saturday in Temec on the MTB. So i should be OK for Sunday. Should be fun!!! Can't wait for the 12mile decent on the East Grade....though it's not as smooth as the front.

Where is the start point? What's the address?

I love south grade and I'm interested.. but 6 is early... it's an 1.5 hour drive from my place!

the descent on East grade is nice... it's not that technical with only one real sharp turn and it's not that steep either.

Here is more info on the South Grade climb: http://socalvelo.com/sub/palomar.html

You're a week late. http://www.nctimes.com/articles/2006/10/24/news/inland/escondido/20_30_4510_23_06.txt

Where is the start point? What's the address?

I love south grade and I'm interested.. but 6 is early... it's an 1.5 hour drive from my place!
The start point is at the casino on Valley Center Rd. Not exactly sure which casino that is or what the address is. (jsigone?) As for the start time, keep in mind that you roll back the clocks Saturday night, so it's as if we were not changing the clocks and meeting at 7.

Oct 29 sunrise/sunset:
civil twilight: 5:37 AM
sunrise: 6:03 AM
sunset: 5:00 PM
civil twilight: 5:25 PM

EDIT: I'm not opposed to a slightly later start. But I do want to ensure we have plenty of time and don't have to worry about lighting. And that we have time to enjoy some pie before turning around. madmike, when would you want to start? jsigone and I are closer, so the start time isn't as much a concern for us.

The Casino on Lake Wohlford Drive, just South of the middle school is Valley View, the one down in the valley is called Harrah's Rincon Casino. We're talking Harrah's, right?

How much time are you guys guestimating for the ride?!! If it's 80 miles, with some fast descents, rollers, and such, I would think a 14-15 mph average is doable...so less than 6 hours ride time? Factor in about 1 hour or so for breaks. Am I way off base?

(I need to think about my family, who are supportive, but need a good ballpark time frame)

Here is the addy

Harrah's Rincon Casino & Resort
777 Harrah's Rincon Way
Valley Center, CA 92082

We will be parking in the lot on the corner where the stop light is facing Valley Center, Not in the parking structure. Look for my lowered Grey Scion XB

I will not be able to attend this ride. Sorry if you were hoping I could be there. Maybe next time!


:)

The Casino on Lake Wohlford Drive, just South of the middle school is Valley View, the one down in the valley is called Harrah's Rincon Casino. We're talking Harrah's, right?

How much time are you guys guestimating for the ride?!! If it's 80 miles, with some fast descents, rollers, and such, I would think a 14-15 mph average is doable...so less than 6 hours ride time? Factor in about 1 hour or so for breaks. Am I way off base?

(I need to think about my family, who are supportive, but need a good ballpark time frame)

I'm thinking 5-6 hours for the ride w/ the small break for lunch in San Ysabel. The first 12 miles will be the slowest. Yah I'm hoping for 15+mph average over the whole trip.

EDIT: I'm not opposed to a slightly later start. But I do want to ensure we have plenty of time and don't have to worry about lighting. And that we have time to enjoy some pie before turning around. madmike, when would you want to start? jsigone and I are closer, so the start time isn't as much a concern for us.

Also keep in mind that the later we start, the more motorcycles will be out there. I hope that CHP bust scares them away for the weekend. I don't mind going later though, whatever is best for everyone.

How much time are you guys guestimating for the ride?!! If it's 80 miles, with some fast descents, rollers, and such, I would think a 14-15 mph average is doable...so less than 6 hours ride time? Factor in about 1 hour or so for breaks. Am I way off base?
I think 15 MPH average is a bit optimistic for a 80 mile ride with about 8000 feet of climbing. That, or you guys had better bring a tow rope and drag me up the mountains. But 14 MPH on the bike sounds reasonable to me if the winds don't wreak havoc on us. I'm expecting about 5.5-6 hours ride time, 1.5-2 hours off the bike. That's a long time off the bike, but we want to sit down and enjoy a richly-deserved piece of pie. :D

CyLowe97, I'm very disappointed that you aren't coming. :(


:p

Here is the addy

Harrah's Rincon Casino & Resort
777 Harrah's Rincon Way
Valley Center, CA 92082

We will be parking in the lot on the corner where the stop light is facing Valley Center, Not in the parking structure. Look for my lowered Grey Scion XB
Thanks... added this info to post #1.


I'm thinking 5-6 hours for the ride w/ the small break for lunch in San Ysabel. The first 12 miles will be the slowest. Yah I'm hoping for 15+mph average over the whole trip.
5 hours?! It takes me about 2 hours to climb South Grade (timing from the taco shop) on a century pace. Another 40 minutes or so to get to and from the observatory. 20-odd minutes down South Grade. There's no way I'll squeeze in the rest of the ride in 2 hours! :eek: