Classic & Vintage - 1970s windsor pro all campy record

Hi - I'm a dedicated cyclist, though not much of an online user...I still have my first good road bike, a 1978 Windsor professional, "Eddy Merckx" endorsed (used to break the world record in Mexico City i think). It's in decent shape, I don't ride it much (I have a few newer bikes that have a lot more mileage on them). So I'm thinking that I'd like to sell it...looking for approximate valuation. It's all campy record, it has beautiful Cinelli lugs...the paint is the original orange (lugs are chromed). The paint is a bit rough, but there is no rust. Columbus tubing, not sure which iteration.

I'm selling it as I don't like just having it around looking at me as I take another ride out (pretty much I ride a Cannondale every day, either an r900, or if towing my trailer and kid, a 1992 mountain bike with slicks and no suspension).

The Windsor is in good shape, I maintain it every year.

Your thoughts?

Many thanks.

Before some sticklers for historical accuracy flame all over you, let me point out that the bike Eddy rode to WC was NOT a Windsor. Acer-Mex just took advantage of his presence there to stage a photo session and then used those photos in ads to IMPLY that he rode their Windsor product to set the record..."marketing".
I don't think Windsor Pros are much in demand, and even a pristine example with all Campy (are the brakes Universals?) might only fetch around $300-$400. I think the orange frames were the best looking Pros, thought the silver is more common, I believe the tubing to be SL or early equivalent, but larger sizes might have SP or straight-guage tubes.
There was a recent offering of NOS Raysports (a similar Acer-Mex product, tho newer and in 531) offered as frames-only that sold for around $200 each.

I would be interested in it depending on frame size and what you decide to ask for it.

i agree with unworthy1. windors are not a bike that is in demand. no matter what the size i think you may be disappointed in what you think it is worth versus what others think. check out ebay for comparsions, if available. good luck with the sale.

I don't think Windsor Pros are much in demand, and even a pristine example with all Campy (are the brakes Universals?) might only fetch around $300-$400. I think the orange frames were the best looking Pros, thought the silver is more common, I believe the tubing to be SL or early equivalent, but larger sizes might have SP or straight-guage tubes.
There was a recent offering of NOS Raysports (a similar Acer-Mex product, tho newer and in 531) offered as frames-only that sold for around $200 each.

I believe you are correct about the use of Universal brakes on the Professional model. Sheldon places a value of around $700 in guideline condition. I guess the key word here is guideline. I do not think Raysport was an Acer-Mex product. Raysport was commissioned by Ray Florman to be built by British cycling champion Ian Alsop. Yes they were built in Mexico, but this is the first time I have ever heard Acer-Mex and Raysport connected. But it wouldn't be the first time I learned something, either.

Y'know, I'm just repeating what I've been told about Raysports, so very possible Acer-Mex never made them...someday the truth will out. I know there were a couple other names that Acer-Mex DID use and one was Carabela, another was Centurion (that is, they made a very limited run of the Pro that was badged as a Centurion). I read that the shop that comissioned/sold the Raysports also was a dealer for the Carabela (identical to the Windsor except for the decals)...any truth to that?

In 1973 there was a Windsor poster at the local bike shop that showed Eddy girning as he rode to the hour record, the Windsor label on the head tube was clearly cut in, long before Photoshop. A deal was cut for Windsor to get that image. Forward 30+ years and a marketing deal becomes fact, a lesson for us all.

Two years later a guy with a Windsor somes into the shop complaining of his loose headset, it was decided a repack was in order, off comes the front brake and off drops the fork less the steerer, it was the flux and a bolt that was holding the thing together....

Not all were this way, but Windsor was not known for quality.

Let ebay tell you its value.

Hi - I'm a dedicated cyclist, though not much of an online user...I still have my first good road bike, a 1978 Windsor professional, "Eddy Merckx" endorsed (used to break the world record in Mexico City i think). It's in decent shape, I don't ride it much (I have a few newer bikes that have a lot more mileage on them). So I'm thinking that I'd like to sell it...looking for approximate valuation. It's all campy record, it has beautiful Cinelli lugs...the paint is the original orange (lugs are chromed). The paint is a bit rough, but there is no rust. Columbus tubing, not sure which iteration.

I'm selling it as I don't like just having it around looking at me as I take another ride out (pretty much I ride a Cannondale every day, either an r900, or if towing my trailer and kid, a 1992 mountain bike with slicks and no suspension).

The Windsor is in good shape, I maintain it every year.

Your thoughts?

Many thanks.

I'd be interested in that bike also, depending on the size.

Y'know, I'm just repeating what I've been told about Raysports, so very possible Acer-Mex never made them...someday the truth will out. I know there were a couple other names that Acer-Mex DID use and one was Carabela, another was Centurion (that is, they made a very limited run of the Pro that was badged as a Centurion). I read that the shop that comissioned/sold the Raysports also was a dealer for the Carabela (identical to the Windsor except for the decals)...any truth to that?

I was heading down to A-1 Bicycles anyway to pick up a chain ring I had ordered, so I took the opportunity to ask Ray Jr. about the production of Raysports. He confirmed Ian Alsop as the driving force behind the venture. He was specific in saying Acer-Mex was not involved, but it is entirely possible that some people who worked for Acer-Mex were hired to help produce the frames.

Ray told me the the whole operation was out of Ian's garage and he (Ian) also acted as the distributor. Tubing was to be direct to Mexico from England but that ran into customs difficulties. After that the shipments went England, then St Louis, then Mexico. But due to poor demand for the frames, at least one shipment of 531 never got to Mexico and languished in A-1 for a while. I believe this shipment is the source of Greg Parker's 531 tube sets. The frames originally sold for $150...about half what a comparable frame cost at the time. But as Ray said, everyone wanted the name frame, not some knockoff, no matter how good.

Did not know about the possible Carabela connection, so did not ask. If I remember, I will ask about it next time I see him. Ray said Ian was through St Louis not too long ago. He has not had any contact since.

Lynn, THAT is some definitive reporting, THANKS!

Lynn, THAT is some definitive reporting, THANKS!

Thank you. I forgot to add that Ray has no idea of production numbers.

My first good bike was a Windsor Pro that I bought used in '76. I still have the frame, but have since bought another that's my size... I didn't know a thing about sizing back then...
They're darned good bikes if you ask me, and nicely under-valued. If yours is an early one and 53-54cm ctc, I'm interested... No matter if orange or silver. :)

I've had a few over the years, they're ok, though I found the ride a little dead. At the time, guys were buying them just for the Campagnolo parts. A group went for about $500., but you could buy the Windsor Pro for a little less. You didn't get the Campagnolo brakes, but the wheels were built and you got the stem, bars and seat.

Thanks for the replies.

It has always had campy record brakes.

It is orange, except the lugs are chrome

I will confirm the size this evening and attempt to post photos or a link to photos (I think it's 53 cm).

Thanks for the clarification re Eddy M, yes it was Eddy "endorsed" certainly not ridden (did he not ride a track bike?)

This bike has a nice lively steel feel to it, not dead at all. Though my basis of comparison is aluminum frames, so anything feels live after that. Though I do ride the occassional Seven, all steel, and it has that same steel suppleness.

What I have heard is that this iteration of Windsor was alumni of Cinelli who set up shop in Mexico.

That "Cinelli alumni" story is one that I once heard, and believed, but it has been debunked. I think Windsor (AKA Acer-Mex) just used a Cinelli as the model to copy, down to the fastback seat cluster and chrome lugs with round holes. Just a note, they did make a track version of the Profesional (one 's') back in the '70s, but I'm sure Eddy Merckx never rode one of those in competition, either. Since yours has Campy brakes it's probably worth a bit more than the average Pro.

When a steel frame feels dead often it is due to overheating of the tubes, Windsor had variable quality, I am sure some got "brazed-right", every once in a while we got a big name bike at the shop where I worked that did not ride up to its pedigree, building lugged bikes is quite variable.

I've heard that some late '70s Windsor Pros failed at or around the BB shell, probably due to overheating. The late '70s examples I've seen, also weren't as cleanly made as the earlier ones. While I haven't seen enough of them to determine after what serial # they started getting sloppy, the decent ones I've had and took notice of, were all below #2000. The serial is stamped into the side of the seat lug, BTW.
As far as the Cinelli connection, I think that there was none... Cinelli was the bike nearly everyone lusted after throughout the '70s, so Windsor was marketed as the "poor man's Cinelli" (what we used to call them, anyway). Compare side by side the Cinelli to the Windsor on build quality, and you'll certainly see the difference! That said, the early Windsors really were decent, just no Cinelli. Oh; and as far as dead ride... I think that the early ones though more cleanly built, were all SP tubing (26.8 seatpost size), even in the smaller sizes, and a bit heavy and stiff. Later examples in smaller sizes used a 27.2 seatpost, so were probably SL...They rode better, but you'll want to find a well built one....

Oh; and as far as dead ride... I think that the early ones though more cleanly built, were all SP tubing (26.8 seatpost size), even in the smaller sizes, and a bit heavy and stiff. Later examples in smaller sizes used a 27.2 seatpost, so were probably SL...They rode better, but you'll want to find a well built one....

To summarize...I would not equate SP with a "dead" ride. Maybe at the extremes, say a 100lb. rider on a 49cm frame, it might be overkill, even jarring, but not "dead". I do not equate "dead" with stiffness, In looking for a good ride way to express it, a women's Varsity rides, might feel equal, one has the impression when riding it that the bike is sapping your energy. When I got to ride an early Klien in 1975, that was STIFF, not dead by any means.

To summarize...I would not equate SP with a "dead" ride. Maybe at the extremes, say a 100lb. rider on a 49cm frame, it might be overkill, even jarring, but not "dead". I do not equate "dead" with stiffness,...
Exactly. They don't feel dead to me either, just not as lively as some other vintage steel does. Some would call my '74 Raleigh Pro dead too, but it's just stiff. My '74 International, on the other hand, has the ride that people would call "lively". Same tubeset, but different geometry, and built for a different purpose.

I consider my '71 International my screaming lime green child tractor, as the long chrome chainstays allow a kiddie trailer to be fiitted without worry and my heel won't catch the bracketry.

But I have been told that the '74's and later differed from the earlier bikes.

To keep it on the original topic, there was a customer long ago who fitted his silver Windsor pro with Cinelli transfers, the quick giveaway was that he had to use a transfer for the headbadge.

When a steel frame feels dead often it is due to overheating of the tubes ...

That certainly describes circa 1970 Nishikis. However, by the end of that decade, Kawamura was building frames with European world-class resilience.