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Zealot:
"one who is zealous, one who is full of zeal for his own specific beliefs or objectives, usually in the negative sense of being too passionate; a fanatic"
per http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Zealot
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Zealous: Full of persistent fervent devotion to a cause.
Episode IV
A New Hope
"It is a period of civil war. Rebel cyclists, striking from a hidden base, have won their first victory against the evil VC Galactic Empire and Helmet Head Vadar. During the battle, Rebel spies managed to steal secret plans to the Empire's ultimate weapon, the DEATH SPRAY, an armored vehicle with enough dark paint to destroy an entire city's bike lanes. Pursued by the Empire's sinister agents, Princess Diane races home aboard her Trike, The Dominatrix. She is custodian of the stolen plans that can save her people and restore freedom to the galaxy....
(are we having fun yet? :D)
Episode IV
A New Hope
"It is a period of civil war. Rebel cyclists, striking from a hidden base, have won their first victory against the evil VC Galactic Empire and Helmet Head Vadar. During the battle, Rebel spies managed to steal secret plans to the Empire's ultimate weapon, the DEATH SPRAY, an armored vehicle with enough dark paint to destroy an entire city's bike lanes. Pursued by the Empire's sinister agents, Princess Diane races home aboard her Trike, The Dominatrix. She is custodian of the stolen plans that can save her people and restore freedom to the galaxy....
(are we having fun yet? :D)
Now THAT was funny! And cosmically accurate.
:D
Episode IV
A New Hope
"It is a period of civil war. Rebel cyclists, striking from a hidden base, have won their first victory against the evil VC Galactic Empire and Helmet Head Vadar. During the battle, Rebel spies managed to steal secret plans to the Empire's ultimate weapon, the DEATH SPRAY, an armored vehicle with enough dark paint to destroy an entire city's bike lanes. Pursued by the Empire's sinister agents, Princess Diane races home aboard her Trike, The Dominatrix. She is custodian of the stolen plans that can save her people and restore freedom to the galaxy....
(are we having fun yet? :D)
Outstanding!!!
:beer: :beer:
While some see this as humorous, I really don't think it's appropriate for this forum.
when i think of 'zealot' i think of people with religious pamphlets telling me that i'm going to hell.
it's very close to the way i feel when i read most of his posts.
So where's Emperor Forrester? Mech Bikerider? Obi-Chipcom-Kenobi?
Woah! *gasp*
Galen: I heard that HH Vader is my father? Is this true?
Bekologista: Your father he is.
Galen: Nooooo!
Too much fun!
when i think of 'zealot' i think of people with religious pamphlets telling me that i'm going to hell.
it's very close to the way i feel when i read most of his posts.
+1
Oh my god I'm going to get into trouble at work reading this stuff.
It's Dominatrikes, by the way.
Whoa, who voted "no"?!? I'll bet HH even votes "yes". :D
I'm a semi-apathetic zealot with delusions of inferiority.
Oh my god I'm going to get into trouble at work reading this stuff.
Use the Farce, Diane!
Use the Farce, Diane!
I am one with the Force. When motorists come up behind me, I just whisper, "You want to pass me very carefully. You enjoy doing this."
Works every time.
I am one with the Force. When motorists come up behind me, I just whisper, "You want to pass me very carefully. You enjoy doing this."
Works every time.
How do I learn the 'force,' Obi-wan. I coulda used it last night instead of flipping out on a moronic cager who explained that he honked at me as he came barelling up behind me at full speed and forcing me off the road to warn me that he was coming through.
I'm kind of embarassed for the way I reacted. Apparently, I have the 'dark side.'
Is Helmet Head a "Zealot"?
No more so than some of the folks on this forum on the other side of the coin.
HH and I do not always concur*, but I have never considered him to be either a kook or a zealot. There exist evil forces within our own society who would love to restrict our freedom to use the nation's PUBLIC road system, and folks like HH constantly watch out for OUR interests and OUR rights.
The most significant difference between me and HH is that I regularly joust at windmills such as bad drivers and fast free merges and diverges.
___
* I practice a kinder, gentler, more chicken form of vehicular cycling, freely making exceptions, such as two-part left turns, when I see fit, and cowering in bike lanes on 55mph prime arterials, instead of dynamically taking and releasing one of the main travel lanes.
I cannot believe the moderator(s) allow this thread to remain open. It is in very poor taste and has absolutely nothing to do with cycling safety or advocacy.
I often take issue with HH, but this is not an appropriate way to go about it.
I call for the moderator(s) to LOCK THIS THREAD.
Caruso
I did not vote because I find this poll offensive. I do not like seeing this forum used to ridicule its users.
I did not vote because I find this poll offensive. I do not like seeing this forum used to ridicule its users.
The wording of the poll was meant to elicit opinions as to how HH is perceived...my intent was not to ridicule him. I think he's a socially inept "true believer" who doesn't understand that the way he writes alienates his intended audience.
The survey was prompted by the passage below in this thread (http://www.bikeforums.net/showpost.php?p=3275544&postcount=247) :
"Whacko zealots with strong wrong-headed convictions have made it very difficult for those of us with strong convictions based on logic and reason.
Very few people have the critical analysis capabilities and skills required to be able to discern and appreciate the difference."
If HH is going to call most of BF "whacko zealots", I think it's fair to conduct a poll to see how he himself is regarded here.
I think it's true that all of us are offended with one another's words from time to time, or in some cases, on a regular basis.
The important thing to remember is that disagreement is not a bad thing, and open, honest discussion of our views can be held without attacking each other personally. That is the mark of maturity.
I think it's true that all of us are offended with one another's words from time to time, or in some cases, on a regular basis.
The important thing to remember is that disagreement is not a bad thing, and open, honest discussion of our views can be held without attacking each other personally. That is the mark of maturity.
Thank you, LBM! The price we pay for freedom of speech is the "right" to be offended from time to time. To me, this is a very small price to pay for such a fundamental freedom. Of course, a few extremists in various cultures evidently don't "get" this -- enough said.
I cannot believe the moderator(s) allow this thread to remain open.
Welcome to BF.net. Instead of asking that yet another thread be locked, why not ask the mods to deal with the problem posters?
I did not vote because I find this poll offensive. I do not like seeing this forum used to ridicule its users.
+1 Nonsense!
HH and I do not always concur*, but I have never considered him to be either a kook or a zealot. There exist evil forces within our own society who would love to restrict our freedom to use the nation's PUBLIC road system, and folks like HH constantly watch out for OUR interests and OUR rights.
a little paranoid, aren't we?:eek:
I did not vote because I find this poll offensive. I do not like seeing this forum used to ridicule its users.
I didn't vote either, but for other reasons.
Welcome to BF.net. Instead of asking that yet another thread be locked, why not ask the mods to deal with the problem posters?
I guess you mean that, instead of reporting this inappropriate thread, you want me to direct my efforts at HH because you find him offensive.
I have addressed HH directly in threads where he and I both participated. As much as he can irritate me at times, most of our exchanges have been just that . . . exchanges.
This thread, IMHO, crosses the line. This forum, again IMHO, is about cycling, not about whether this or that one of us is thus and so.
I will not bother posting again on this topic (unless someone engages me eliciting a response). Y'all can do whatever you want. I've voiced my opinion . . . I'm not the policeman around here. If the moderator(s) choose to let this thread stand - again, that's their prerogative.
Caruso
Originally Posted by John E
There exist evil forces within our own society who would love to restrict our freedom to use the nation's PUBLIC road system, and folks like HH constantly watch out for OUR interests and OUR rights.
a little paranoid, aren't we?:eek:
Don't blame the poster. He is just channeling the Guru's conspiracy message in the absence of the number one Zealous Apostle.
HH and I do not always concur*, but I have never considered him to be either a kook or a zealot. There exist evil forces within our own society who would love to restrict our freedom to use the nation's PUBLIC road system, and folks like HH constantly watch out for OUR interests and OUR rights.a little paranoid, aren't we?:eek:
In Dana Point, local authorities recently tried to bar cyclists from a heavily cycled portion of the Pacific Coast Highway. Police in Portland sometimes ticket cyclists who dare leave the bike lane. Until the Ohio Bike Federation pushed through a law that stopped them, some local governments in Ohio barred cyclists from parts of public roads, requiring us to use the sidewalk.
Welcome to BF.net. Instead of asking that yet another thread be locked, why not ask the mods to deal with the problem posters?
The problem is defining who are the "problem posters." You and I probably have a very different list. While I think the mods let personal attacks (mostly by the pro-bike-lane folks) go too far, I'd glad the mods continue to use a light touch in A&S.
HH strongly believes in the right of cyclists to use the road, and the duty of cyclists to exercise educate themselve to use that right responsibly. He is sometimes overly smug, but the main gripe against him boils down to the fact that he makes arguments others disagree with.
I guess you mean that, instead of reporting this inappropriate thread, you want me to direct my efforts at HH because you find him offensive.
No. Well, yes, I find HH offensive, but what I meant is exactly what I said: call on the mods to moderate and deal with problem users, and problem posts, not just arbitrarily lock threads.
There have been discussion on this before (including one in which a mod pretty rudely made it clear she was uninterested in my opinions). I'm not going to re-post all, for one thing I don't think my own opinion is important enough to repeat it in detail. In short, though, people here get away with a great deal they should not (and I have admitted before to posting messages for which I should have been reprimanded). For some people this occurs on a weekly or daily basis. However this is a moot point, as clearly the moderation style won't be changed. If you care to see what was discussed before, I'm sure you can find plenty of threads on the issue.
While I have to agree that, on a properly moderated forum, this thread shouldn't exist, the point is not just this one thread, but the dysfunction of the forum itself.
I don't see the big deal with this thread. Calling HH a zealot is like calling me brown. He is a zealot, and I am brown. His actions and posts give the impression and image of zealotry, while the wavelengths I absorb and reflect give me the impression and image of being brown.
No biggie. Just adjectives.
No. Well, yes, I find HH offensive, but what I meant is exactly what I said: call on the mods to moderate and deal with problem users, and problem posts, not just arbitrarily lock threads.
There have been discussion on this before (including one in which a mod pretty rudely made it clear she was uninterested in my opinions). I'm not going to re-post all, for one thing I don't think my own opinion is important enough to repeat it in detail. In short, though, people here get away with a great deal they should not (and I have admitted before to posting messages for which I should have been reprimanded). For some people this occurs on a weekly or daily basis. However this is a moot point, as clearly the moderation style won't be changed. If you care to see what was discussed before, I'm sure you can find plenty of threads on the issue.
While I have to agree that, on a properly moderated forum, this thread shouldn't exist, the point is not just this one thread, but the dysfunction of the forum itself.
You and I are probably on the same page . . . I just came across this thread and responded to it. Doubtless, if I set out on a mission, I could find other threads that, if I were a moderator, would not be allowed. OTOH, I am not interested in moderating this or any forum - I came across this thread in my normal perusal of the site and reacted to it. No doubt, you do the same.
I have seen moderators admonish other posters to please "refrain from making "this" type post in the future".
Either they haven't seen this thread, or they don't view this thread as I do.
I am sure you and I both have more important concerns than this particular thread, so, although I previously posted that I would not post again here, I have, but, this time, LOL, I really, really mean it.
Caruso
Enthusiastic, dedicated, serious, informed, yes. Zealot in the negative, near religious sense, utterly disregarding all other opinions, no. I have had a couple of nice private chats with him. I am glad someone is willing to be a lightning rod on the VC topic.
There exist evil forces within our own society who would love to restrict our freedom to use the nation's PUBLIC road system, and folks like HH constantly watch out for OUR interests and OUR rights.
Don't blame the poster. He is just channeling the Guru's conspiracy message in the absence of the number one Zealous Apostle.
Just because John disagrees with I-Like-To-Bike in this regard, that doesn't mean John deserves to be treated with contempt. I respect John, as should ILTB.
I suspect if we interviewed American drivers, we might find the majority of them to believe that bicycles should be not be ridden on the road with cars. Nevermind that their views might be kind, thoughtful, and in the best interest of our safety. That view is still against cyclists' freedom to use the road, and must be challenged.
how can you all even consider this thread appropriate?
that being said, how can the guy even be confused as a zealot?
how can someone be suppossedly so full of zeal for a sport and activity like bicycling still drive as much as that guy does?
armchair blowhard that monotonizes threads with off topic blather and discusses his personal debating skills, thereby wasting threads is more like it.
Episode IV
A New Hope
"It is a period of civil war. Rebel cyclists, striking from a hidden base, have won their first victory against the evil VC Galactic Empire and Helmet Head Vadar. During the battle, Rebel spies managed to steal secret plans to the Empire's ultimate weapon, the DEATH SPRAY, an armored vehicle with enough dark paint to destroy an entire city's bike lanes. Pursued by the Empire's sinister agents, Princess Diane races home aboard her Trike, The Dominatrix. She is custodian of the stolen plans that can save her people and restore freedom to the galaxy....
Obi Chipcom Kenobi: "these are not the riders you are looking for. use the farce, crosswalker...."
Helemt Head Vader: "Steal the Porsche, Luke!"
Just because John disagrees with I-Like-To-Bike in this regard, that doesn't mean John deserves to be treated with contempt. I respect John, as should ILTB.
I suspect if we interviewed American drivers, we might find the majority of them to believe that bicycles should be not be ridden on the road with cars. Nevermind that their views might be kind, thoughtful, and in the best interest of our safety. That view is still against cyclists' freedom to use the road, and must be challenged.
It isn't a question of disagreement or respect for John E, or what you believe. It's a question of rational thought about matters of fact vis-à-vis emotional, over-the-top ranting about "evil forces" out to do in "OUR interests". And HH looking out for Us. You can respect rants promulgated by the Forester acolytes as you wish. I recognize them for what they are.
Originally Posted by John E
There exist evil forces within our own society who would love to restrict our freedom to use the nation's PUBLIC road system, and folks like HH constantly watch out for OUR interests and OUR rights.
Originally Posted by John E
There exist evil forces within our own society who would love to restrict our freedom to use the nation's PUBLIC road system, and folks like HH constantly watch out for OUR interests and OUR rights.
Don't blame the poster. He is just channeling the Guru's conspiracy message in the absence of the number one Zealous Apostle.
LOL John E is probably one of the more balanced posters here on BF... he is hardly channeling. Locally in San Diego area, (right in the southern end of Auto Centric So Cal) there are constantly little problems arising from a total disregard of bicycling as regular transportation.
Just the other day I was confronted on a major arterial and a sign that stated "no bikes." Not "Detour," not "Slow for Construction," not "Road Closed," just simply "No Bikes." This was on a major east west corridor about which one would have to go some 6 miles or more to get around, and in getting around, I would be cut off from all the local shops in the area.
Pedal a few miles on our roads before you arbitrarily blast someone with your accusations. This ain't Iowa buddy.
Pedal a few miles on our roads before you arbitrarily blast someone with your accusations. This ain't Iowa buddy.
Ya mean you too believe that Evil Forceshttp://www.orangemane.com/BB/images/smilies/FIREdevil.gif are casting a spell on the activities of the righteous cyclists? Or are you just under the influence of the Halloween Season?
At least this thread tells us something about the thought process of some bicyclists in San Diego.
I don't always agree with HH, but call him a zealot? I don't think so. Is everyone who sticks to their beliefs a zealot? Nope. There does seem to be some Anti-HH zealots though.:rolleyes:
There seems to be a disturbance in the Farce as this thread progresses. :eek:
Ya mean you too believe that Evil Forceshttp://www.orangemane.com/BB/images/smilies/FIREdevil.gif are casting a spell on the activities of the righteous cyclists? Or are you just under the influence of the Halloween Season?
At least this thread tells us something about the thought process of some bicyclists in San Diego.
Nope... sorry... you are right, there are no "evil forces" involved. Just ordinary dunderheaded humans who really don't give a flying f**k if you use a bike for transportation.
Even I have had to fight these idiots, who in one case, near my office, put a bike lane to the right of a freeway on ramp... so a cyclist in the BL would then have to negotiate with all the motorists speeding up to get on the freeway, and cross two lanes to get off the on ramp... Bright thinking on the road engineer's part. But too typical. We also have folks that think only "kiddos" use the local bike paths...
I seem to recall you posting pics of your neighborhood schools with lots of bikes parked in racks provided... so obviously cycling to neighborhood schools is a normal activity where you are... let me contrast that with reality here... where schools discourage that activity as "too dangerous." If that doesn't give you a clue as to why the "thought processes of San Diego cyclists" may appear to be "fighting evil," then I don't know what else to say.
Ya mean you too believe that Evil Forceshttp://www.orangemane.com/BB/images/smilies/FIREdevil.gif are casting a spell on the activities of the righteous cyclists? Or are you just under the influence of the Halloween Season?
At least this thread tells us something about the thought process of some bicyclists in San Diego.
Evil is easy to spot. Just look for the orange flames. :D
Evil is easy to spot. Just look for the orange flames. :D
I spotted evil forces right in my dining room. Came from my wife who doubt is plotting some sinister plan to keep me from doing whatever I feel like whenever I feel like doing it.
I seem to recall you posting pics of your neighborhood schools with lots of bikes parked in racks provided... so obviously cycling to neighborhood schools is a normal activity where you are... let me contrast that with reality here... where schools discourage that activity as "too dangerous." If that doesn't give you a clue as to why the "thought processes of San Diego cyclists" may appear to be "fighting evil," then I don't know what else to say.
Let me refresh your memory. These pictures were taken today.
Also an unfriendly cycling environment is not necessarily the product of Evil Forces.
The use of such over the top rhetoric (i.e fascist police, cagers, evil forces, enemies) to describe the public or public officials that don't see eye to eye with the "bicycling advocate" marks the "advocate" as a foolish or careless (with words) person at best, a counterproductive ranting loose cannon/zealot at worst.
Evil is easy to spot. Just look for the orange flames. :D
BwaaaHAaaaaaa! I put a Spell On You! I condemn you to cycling through the Flames Of Hades in an Eternal Bike Lane.
I spotted evil forces right in my dining room. Came from my wife who doubt is plotting some sinister plan to keep me from doing whatever I feel like whenever I feel like doing it.
You should take that evil thing to the end of the world and drop it off. It will cause you and your family great harm.
Of course, that might not stop your wife from plotting sinister plans to keep you from doing whatever you want. Trust me.
BwaaaHAaaaaaa! I put a Spell On You! I condemn you to cycling through the Flames Of Hades in an Eternal Bike Lane.
:eek:
His shirt burneth with a flame, but is not consumed!
If "eternal" means starting nowhere and ending nowhere... :D
Let me refresh your memory. These pictures were taken today.
Also an unfriendly cycling environment is not necessarily the product of Evil Forces.
Agreed... and I even agreed to that in your earlier message. It ain't evil forces... it's just humans.
The use of such over the top rhetoric (i.e fascist police, cagers, evil forces, enemies) to describe the public or public officials that don't see eye to eye with the "bicycling advocate" marks the "advocate" as a foolish or careless (with words) person at best, a counterproductive ranting loose cannon/zealot at worst.
Tend to agree there too... especially when taken to the ranting level of some advocates.
But now back the issues at hand... referencing your photos again... so if your kids could not ride their bikes to school... wouldn't that tend to make you something of an "advocate?"
The use of such over the top rhetoric (i.e fascist police, cagers, evil forces, enemies) to describe the public or public officials that don't see eye to eye with the "bicycling advocate" marks the "advocate" as a foolish or careless (with words) person at best, a counterproductive ranting loose cannon/zealot at worst.
+1. Ineffective 'advocacy' = "You suck, I hate you, you're evil. Now gimme, gimme, gimme."
I voted no. I don't think he is. He's an advocate not a zealot.
But now back the issues at hand... referencing your photos again... so if your kids could not ride their bikes to school... wouldn't that tend to make you something of an "advocate?"
Certainly. But I've never lived in a place that prohibited me or my kids from cycling to school or anywhere else that we wanted to go after reaching the third grade. Includes PA, IL, IA, OR, and Germany.
Many places are not suitable/conducive for cycling, but I don't believe advocating about evil forces (or some nicer phrase for those who are not on the Club Rider wavelength) opposing OUR interests (AKA Road Cyclists' Commandment: Never Slow Down for Nuthin') will accomplish anything positive for cyclists.
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