Commuting - Hand signals and keeping up

I have a tendency to indicate my right turns by extending my right arm not the proper way by bending left arm at elbow. Any one else even bother to signal? The left turn signal cutting across to the turn lane is a no brainer, right?

Commuting to work by bike not recommended unless you can keep up with flow of traffic, or so I have heard. No way I can do more tha 25 mph commuting ususally do 16 mph (on mtb). I figure means being able to cut across lanes to get in position to make safe and legal turn without holding up traffic. I see people who look like they are commuting yet cannot get across a lane and into the left turn lane without a whole lot of wobbles, and half hearted aborted attempts. I so love my barend rear view mirror. I can see behind me better than on my motorcycle (rice burner crotch rocket). Gives me huge confidence to attempt crossing lanes. Even just being able to see cars coming from behind is awesome.

you don't use that crap (left arm bent signaling right turn) when on a bike. You should point the way you wish to turn with the coresponding hand (ie. turn right, point with right hand. turn left point with left hand)

That bending elbow on left arm to signal right turn crap is only for cagers... They obviously can't stick there right hand out the passanger window to signal....

My general rule, if there is a car anywhere near you, signal. It is a common courtesy.


Mike

For left turns on busy streets I watch in my mirror for traffic gaps created by the traffic lights and then get to the middle of the road, even if this may be more than 100 yards before the turning. Cars passing on my right dont seem to be bothered by me.

I have a tendency to indicate my right turns by extending my right arm not the proper way by bending left arm at elbow. Any one else even bother to signal? The left turn signal cutting across to the turn lane is a no brainer, right?In my state (Pa - USA) they both are legal. I used to use the bent left arm but most of the cagers don't get it. They think I'm waving 'Hi'.

Sometimes they don't understand any hand signal. I’ve started to simulate the blink of a signal by opening and closing my hand, or rotating my wrist to swing my palm up and down. Anything to get the point across.

That bending elbow on left arm to signal right turn crap is only for cagers...

Except that depending on their position relative to yours (and/or the strength their powers of observation), a driver won't necessarily be able to see you extending your right arm (or figure out what it is that you're doing). Granted, it's probably a minimal danger, but it's something to be aware of.

And yeah... I pretty much always signal unless I know there are no cars nearby (and even then I often signal, out of habit).

I guess I really should start signaling, I never do.

I rarely signal - mainly because if I'm making a left I've already checked to see that it's clear.

Occasionally, if I'm going to be making a right, and people are waiting for me to pass to pull out from that side road, I'll signal as a courtesy. I always end up feeling stupid though because to date noone seems to understand the signal. At least noone has actually pulled out. If nothing else, it's a good sign that they're noticing me.

----

As far as speed... the faster I'm going, the safer I feel. It reduces closing speeds and seems to make the drivers less twitchy when passing. Lately I've been on a MTB with slicks. Speeds range from 16mph uphill to mid 30's down, with a flat cruising speed around 20-21. I'd like to pickup some more speed (meaning a different bike), but my roads aren't favorable and I'd probably be sacrificing some durability to do it. I'll eventually build a dedicated commuter once I figure out exactly what it is that i want.

I would definitely suggest trying out some different tires if you can.. They should easily buy you a few MPH. Regardless, I think you're still probably at an acceptable speed.

Almost two out of three BF respondents preferred using the right arm for right turn signals.

http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=225006

As for speed, I agree that it can help in many situations. I feel safer when I'm riding closer to traffic speed.

Lately I've been on a MTB with slicks. Speeds range from 16mph uphill to mid 30's down, with a flat cruising speed around 20-21. I'd like to pickup some more speed

:eek:

's pretty good already.

I try to signal as often as possible (left arm bent for right-hand turns), but I have a few spots on my regular route where I don't feel as in-control among the cages when I don't have both hands on the bars, so I rely a bit more on body-language/position/faith to get my message across 'bout what I'm aiming to do. And that's even at my regular speeds of about 18-22 mph. (I'm in town with a lotta stop signs & such, VERY few straight-aways where I feel I can actually get a good rollin' goin'.)

One thing I DO wish is that more bike glove makers would include some better reflectivity to the backs of their wares. Just today I was biking home wishing I had the sewing skillz to add some durable reflective tape to the backs of my gloves in arrow shapes, the stem starting at the wrist and the point at the base of my middle finger. That way, when signaling at night with my preferred hand position (sort of a karate chop), there'd be a nice shiny arrow helpin' the cagers make sense of my ways ('cept, of course, those confused by my intention to go up, what with my left arm pointing skyward). Guess that'd only work for the folks coming up behind me. That and it always seems to me that pretty much all manufacturers of all gear skimp on the reflective piping/tape. What I wouldn't give to have some decent gear with LOTS of reflective area and nice bright colors everywhere else. I don't WANNA be a ninja biker...

Usually I signal when going left, arm out, but I try to time my lane changes to coincide with traffic breaks, so I'm normally signalling for my own piece of mind.

I use the bent left arm to signal right most of the time, especially when I'm riding towards the right in traffic. I also use it when I'm temporarily holding up traffic with a single finger extended (the pointer finger, not the middle!) to indicate both a rightward move and, "I know you're there, hold on one second and I'll be out of your way." When I'm anywhere there could be traffic on my right and I want to move right, like in a rotary, I signal right with my right arm.

so I rely a bit more on body-language/position/faith to get my message across 'bout what I'm aiming to do.
That's what I try to do most of the time.

When I'm turning or moving laterally in traffic, what I'm most concerned about is someone busting a move to pass me just as I make my move. If I'm moving right, I want people on my right to know, so I signal with my right hand.

Agreed that speed helps in negotiating traffic.

I use my left hand for all signals...been doing it since I was a cub scout. Right hand works and is legal, though.

i use my left hand to point behind my back to signal right sometimes, just to keep things lively.

-Glottus, get yourself to an industrial safety supply store for good quality reflective gloves and gear. that's what most serious commuters wind up doing. there's some GREAT reflective gloves out there for traffic safety applications....

In my state (Pa - USA) they both are legal. I used to use the bent left arm but most of the cagers don't get it. They think I'm waving 'Hi'.
It is still always worth signalling. Once, I didn't signal on a rural highway when I was 11. A speeding motorcyclist who did not anticipate my turn made a valiant effort to avoid me. In the resulting 60mph crash, I only received some burns and minor scarring. He, on the other hand, lost control of the bike, flipped it end over end several times after leaving the road and wound up severely injured. His first words when he regained consciousness were to inquire about the kid he thought he hit. I'll never forget Pat (the guy who hit me almost 30 years ago) or to signal properly.

Hand signals, for the most part, are an anachronism since the law required autos to have turn signals. Consequently, it's unrealistic to assume any driver knows them. Pointing (using a clear gesture that can't be mistaken for something else) is hard to misinterpret. For slowing, stopping, or don't-pass-now, I use my left hand with something similar to the official hand signal, but with fingers spread.... sort of the universal "stay back" sign.

I'm waving my hands around like ground crew parking jets at the airport sometimes...

both hands off the bars, hands chopping my desired direction "I'm going THATAWAY"

Even subtle hand signals get understood by pedestrians or a driver thats looking. once you make eye contact with a driver or a ped, you can actually point if you're going ahead or behind them, where you're going in a five way stop scenario and other nuances.

I also combine a 'ticklefingers' motion with 'the finger of yield' when I need lane clearance from overtaking traffic.

Like Bekologist, I look like a traffic cop out there. Also, I don't wear sunglasses because I always try to make eye contact with drivers. Another trick I've learned is to slightly move my fingers and hand when my arms are extended...movement attracts attention.

On the official San Francisco Bike Map it has diagrams of the proper signals to use and I was suprised to find that the bent arm for a right turn was not listed. Turning left point left, turning right point right. When I am out and about I just point where I am going to turn. I sit up a bit and point with a nice straight arm for a good long while. Remember that in a car your signal is only legal if it starts at a certain distance before the turn. I see people signaling while they are turning on both bikes and cars.

I try to always signal and I use the right arm extended for right turns. I'm a pessimist when it comes to the intelligence of the average person, so I believe using a left arm to signal a right turn is likely to confuse them. At least with using your right arm you are pointing in the direction you are intending to go. Ofcourse I've had several drivers behind me ignore my left turn indications and pull out to pass me on my left as I am trying to turn left.
It is easier to deal with traffic and changing lanes to turn left if you are traveling at a speed closer to the other vehicles but it is not necessary. On faster multi-lane roads I will often turn right onto a side street, do a U turn and then cross the larger road instead of trying to cross lanes and make a left turn. I do this quite often on one intersection on my commute as the road is a 4 lane 35mph road and I would have to sit in the left lane before I can make the turn. I will usually make the left turn on clear days, but if its raining or after dark I take a right then wait for traffic to clear before crossing the road.
Craig

One thing I DO wish is that more bike glove makers would include some better reflectivity to the backs of their wares. Just today I was biking home wishing I had the sewing skillz to add some durable reflective tape to the backs of my gloves in arrow shapes, the stem starting at the wrist and the point at the base of my middle finger. That way, when signaling at night with my preferred hand position (sort of a karate chop), there'd be a nice shiny arrow helpin' the cagers make sense of my ways ('cept, of course, those confused by my intention to go up, what with my left arm pointing skyward). Guess that'd only work for the folks coming up behind me. That and it always seems to me that pretty much all manufacturers of all gear skimp on the reflective piping/tape. What I wouldn't give to have some decent gear with LOTS of reflective area and nice bright colors everywhere else. I don't WANNA be a ninja biker...

I wear a helmet light when I ride at night. When I make a turn, I use the light to illuminate my hand as I signal. My hand lights up but the beam of the light also signals the drivers behind me that something is up and they pay attention.

I signal with left arm bent for right turns. my grandfather taught me that stuff when about 9 so I've been using it ever since. Kind of outdated, but whatever. I do get funny looks when signalling a right. I hold out my arm when I move from the right 1/4 of the lane to the center, just so nobody tries to pass me until I get back over.

When you've got heavy traffic and it's moving fast, it's very helpful to be able to keep up. I ride in mostly sparse traffic, and the one time I have to get across 2 lanes to the turn lane I usually have a clear road behind me. I sometimes signal, sometimes not when I know there are no cars behind me. I'm only going 15 at that point (after a killer hill) and the cars are usually going 35-40. (but most slow when they see me)

I signal with my left arm only. It makes sense for me since my brake lever is on the right grip. Most of the drivers around here seem to get it, and if they don't .. well, I guess they're just used to cyclists not signalling.

I have a tendency to indicate my right turns by extending my right arm not the proper way by bending left arm at elbow.
...


I do the same as you. Only do it when I can see someone is yielding assuming I'm going straight. Otherwise, I don't bother. If they're nice enought to wait, I'll be nice enough to let them know they don't have to because I'm turning. I just point right with my right arm. If I held up my bent left arm, they'd probably just assume I was waving at them and wonder where they knew me from.

-Glottus, get yourself to an industrial safety supply store for good quality reflective gloves and gear. that's what most serious commuters wind up doing. there's some GREAT reflective gloves out there for traffic safety applications....

Thanks. That's good advice I've heard elsewhere as well, but already have some of that kinda gear. When it wears out, I'll be looking for good sources like that. Any Minne[apolitans/sotans] out there can recommend a good safety supply store other than the usual Menards or Home Despot? The gloves found at hardware stores don't always strike me as ideal kit for my commutes.





I wear a helmet light when I ride at night. When I make a turn, I use the light to illuminate my hand as I signal. My hand lights up but the beam of the light also signals the drivers behind me that something is up and they pay attention.

That's another bit of good advice. I've been thinking of getting myself a helmet light to complement the one I already have on my bars, but I'm afraid that item hasn't yet made it onto my "short list" of essential gear that I still need.



I just had a thought about how my movements could have been confusing yesterday going home. I've got a spot where I come to a frequent red light on the right side of two lanes heading west. Traffic there is some of the heaviest I deal with on my whole 6.5 mile route, so it has me a little more alert. I usually filter ahead of the right lane and push in front of the lead car, then as the light turns green, I take the full lane because immediately across the intersection is a coffee shop with LOTS of cars parked and drivers hopping in/out with no real extra space for safety outside of the active door zone. So, like I said, I take the full right lane. The problem is that I have to make a left within two short blocks, so as I'm taking the right lane, most of the drivers starting up from the same green are eager to move into the left lane to pass me, just where I want to be moving too. (Prior to that, I'm coming over a bridge with quite a mound to it, so I don't feel like I'm going fast enough to have already moved over into the left lane and hold my position there before and after going through that light.) I'm constantly looking over my shoulder to see and give clear body language, and when I can, I start holding my left hand out.

I don't usually expect the first car or three to recognize my signal or to give me any room to merge, but I want drivers as far back as possible to get the message, and then I just hope one of them "gets it". This is especially true at times when we're all facing directly into the setting sun! This is one of those spots where I don't feel very comfortable with my hand off the bars though, 'cause traffic is a bit thicker/faster AND I'm about to swerve left at a moment's notice as soon as I can get a clear spot among the two lanes coming AT me (no light or stop sign for my turn). That and there's a slightly recessed manhole cover, some cracks, cars often blocking the middle of the smaller side street that is my destination....

So anyway, as I was saying, yesterday I stick out my hand to indicate a desire to merge left and I'm also looking over my shoulder to see that there's a car there in what would be my blind spot if I was driving. I expect them to keep going and maybe be able to pull into the gap behind, but the car suddenly slows down purposefully and allows me a clear path into that lane! I was grateful and always try to do something to thank courteous/aware drivers, so as I'm merging left, facing two lanes of on-coming, I flick my hand up in a little wave to the driver behind me, still with my left hand, effectively now signalling a right! OOOPS. :)

Ofcourse I've had several drivers behind me ignore my left turn indications and pull out to pass me on my left as I am trying to turn left. This is why the "Effective Cycling" course I took says that a left turn should be two separate moves.
1. Signal then move into the left side of the lane before the intersection.
2. Signal then turn left.

So, like I said, I take the full right lane. The problem is that I have to make a left within two short blocks, so as I'm taking the right lane, most of the drivers starting up from the same green are eager to move into the left lane to pass me, just where I want to be moving too.

If I'm visualising this correctly, it seems pretty dangerous - why not move left before your stoplight, as the cars are slowing/stopping for the red? Get ready for your turn while everyone's stopped, preferably taking up a position in front of someone who is also turning so they won't feel like you're impeding their progress, and then you have a) no starbucks traffic to worry about, b) no zoom-zoom rabbit starters off the line to try to get in front of, and c) no lanes to change at speed...?

Just a thought, FWIW. YMMV, etc.

Commuting to work by bike not recommended unless you can keep up with flow of traffic. Huh?? Says who?..

...<snip> I see people signaling while they are turning on both bikes and cars.

"Turn signaled." Hate that.

Use both depending on situation and where most of the 'audience' is positioned. People on my left side see the left arm better, those to my right the right arm.

In club rides use the left arm bent as others may think (even if your right hand is not pointing anywhere toward ground) that you are pointing an obstical.

Al

:eek:

's pretty good already.

I try to signal as often as possible (left arm bent for right-hand turns), but I have a few spots on my regular route where I don't feel as in-control among the cages when I don't have both hands on the bars, so I rely a bit more on body-language/position/faith to get my message across 'bout what I'm aiming to do. And that's even at my regular speeds of about 18-22 mph. (I'm in town with a lotta stop signs & such, VERY few straight-aways where I feel I can actually get a good rollin' goin'.)

One thing I DO wish is that more bike glove makers would include some better reflectivity to the backs of their wares. Just today I was biking home wishing I had the sewing skillz to add some durable reflective tape to the backs of my gloves in arrow shapes, the stem starting at the wrist and the point at the base of my middle finger. That way, when signaling at night with my preferred hand position (sort of a karate chop), there'd be a nice shiny arrow helpin' the cagers make sense of my ways ('cept, of course, those confused by my intention to go up, what with my left arm pointing skyward). Guess that'd only work for the folks coming up behind me. That and it always seems to me that pretty much all manufacturers of all gear skimp on the reflective piping/tape. What I wouldn't give to have some decent gear with LOTS of reflective area and nice bright colors everywhere else. I don't WANNA be a ninja biker...


+100. Fully agreed. This is one reason I seek out red gloves... so they stand out and are visible when I signal. Regarding the reflective material... "piping" of any kind irritates me... if the manufacture understands that reflective material is needed for the use of their product... pour the stuff on. We really DO want to be seen, not just be "vaguely fashionable."

I would love to see lots of reflective material on gloves, jackets, and panniers... and none of this "subtle piping." Sheesh.

I would love to see lots of reflective material on gloves, jackets, and panniers... and none of this "subtle piping." Sheesh.

Totally agreed, and not this illuminite garbage either. I am not looking for fashion. Sew/glue/intergrate on some big patches of true reflective material. (but still do it better, cleaner, neater that my hand done fixes)

Al

I run my brakes motorcycle fashion too. With front brakes on right. Keeps me from getting confused in panic situation due to flip flopping back and for the from bike to motorbike.

Commuting to work by bike not recommended unless you can keep up with flow of traffic, or so I have heard.

Who said that? Sounds like cager talk to clear the roads. Actually keeping up with traffic is easy...in the traffic jams :p

This is why the "Effective Cycling" course I took says that a left turn should be two separate moves.
1. Signal then move into the left side of the lane before the intersection.
2. Signal then turn left.


3. Continue signaling through the entire turn if possible

I signaled for the first time today.

you don't use that crap (left arm bent signaling right turn) when on a bike. You should point the way you wish to turn with the coresponding hand (ie. turn right, point with right hand. turn left point with left hand)
That bending elbow on left arm to signal right turn crap is only for cagers... They obviously can't stick there right hand out the passanger window to signal....My general rule, if there is a car anywhere near you, signal. It is a common courtesy.
Mike
Although using your left hand will ensure that the driver turning left oncomming to you will see you. That is the only thing I noticed happen. Here we can use the right turn lane (where posted) to go striaght Yep I point straight to everyone. I use the travel lane if can I position close to the red light.

I try to always point where I am headed never know. Of course common sense at play.

Sometimes they don't understand any hand signal. I’ve started to simulate the blink of a signal by opening and closing my hand, or rotating my wrist to swing my palm up and down. Anything to get the point across.

When making lefts, I usually extend my arm, point out with my index finger, then retract the arm slightly, and jerk it back out. Helps convey the cager's preconcieved idea of a blinking automobile turn signal.

P.S.: I usually stick with the left hand for both left hand signals, right-hand signals, and stop/slowing signals. I do not feel comfortable removing my right hand from the bars, as then, my braking power is limited to the rear brake lever on the left (I run English style on most of my machines save for a few - right hand lever = front, left = rear).

This can be quite hazardous as many cases in where one signals, the rider is also approaching an intersection - a location that commonly requires hard braking due to various bonehead cagers and peds.

Take care,

-Kurt

Totally agreed, and not this illuminite garbage either. I am not looking for fashion. Sew/glue/intergrate on some big patches of true reflective material. (but still do it better, cleaner, neater that my hand done fixes)

AlHow about this one? You Can get it at Alertshirt.com (http://www.alertshirt.com/satrgl.html)

I signaled for the first time today.Congratulations. I do whenever it's safe for my hand to be off the bar.

I have learned that the more we communicate with the cagers the safer we are. Many time I signal my intentions and/or what I want the cager to do (wait, go) and I find that most appreciate this decisiveness and predictability.

So anyway, as I was saying, yesterday I stick out my hand to indicate a desire to merge left and I'm also looking over my shoulder to see that there's a car there in what would be my blind spot if I was driving. I expect them to keep going and maybe be able to pull into the gap behind, but the car suddenly slows down purposefully and allows me a clear path into that lane! Yep. :) Most drivers will actually do that. It is surprising how willing they are to let you in.. when the speed differential isn't too great anyway. I wonder if they are afraid you'll actually swerve after signalling w/o looking or what. Whatever the reason, it really does work.

Sometimes they don't understand any hand signal. I’ve started to simulate the blink of a signal by opening and closing my hand, or rotating my wrist to swing my palm up and down. Anything to get the point across.

In the UK you might be taken as indicating that the driver is prone to self abuse

I have learned that the more we communicate with the cagers the safer we are. Many time I signal my intentions and/or what I want the cager to do (wait, go) and I find that most appreciate this decisiveness and predictability.

+1

That's the key: treat other users of the road as you want to be treated. In this case, communication is the key - and signaling your intent is a great way to communicate with the other road users: cars, buses, fellow cyclists and the like.

I run my brakes motorcycle fashion too. With front brakes on right. Keeps me from getting confused in panic situation due to flip flopping back and for the from bike to motorbike.

Brakes, as I knew it in the UK, were always back-left and right-front, as per a motorcycle - until I came over to Canada, where everything was backwards, heh. As soon as I got my own bike, I swapped my cables over for fear of endo-ing in a mad brake-grab panic.

I did a course in my primary school (elementary level, ages 5-10/11) called "Cycling Proficiency Test" - involved lots of junk including signalling, and I was always taught left arm for left turns and right arm for right turns and misc. motions, like slowing down, etc. (this would be the left arm in NA, where we drive on the right side and not the left).

Only when it's abundantly obvious in my head and in the traffic situation I won't signal, otherwise, I will always fully stretch my arm out, making it clear as possible - I see some folks who just half heartedly put out a bent/folded arm to signal with - to me it seems indecisive and almost as though they're ashamed to signal - as though you may look like a bit of a weirdo (but we are all anyway, aren't we? ;))

Since coming here, I'm aware more of making eye contact - I used to shy away from this, a big no-no. And I'm now also starting to wear a lot more hi-vis stuff, I got leg band/straps and a vest, etc. Tape on the back of my gloves may be a kickass plan to help with signalling visibility.

Yep. :) Most drivers will actually do that. It is surprising how willing they are to let you in.. when the speed differential isn't too great anyway. I wonder if they are afraid you'll actually swerve after signalling w/o looking or what. Whatever the reason, it really does work.

+1 I noticed this riding downtown in Toronto, Richmond is one of my last streets coming in and it can be pretty nuts in the mornings (I ride Queens Quay eastward back to home in the noons/evening) - managing to retain speed AND to keep that communication and clear body/traffic language seems to really help me in getting my space in the pack.

That bending elbow on left arm to signal right turn crap is only for cagers... They obviously can't stick there right hand out the passanger window to signal....

Mike

-1

Motorcyclists use the left hand for all signals too. It's better to leave your right hand on the controls since the throttle and front brake are on the right on a MC/Scooter. I am used to using my left arm after years of riding vintage scooters with no turn signals. It's so ingrained that I hand signal alot even on a blinker equipped MC out of habit.

How about this one? You Can get it at Alertshirt.com (http://www.alertshirt.com/satrgl.html)
Thats the right idea.
I didn't realize alertshirt sold gloves now.

But can these be used for cycling with no seams on the palm contact area and a palm surface that is grippy?

Al

I ALWAYS signal when I'm moving into traffic to make a left. Glancing back over my shoulder isn't at all akward for me and I think in the last year of commuting I've been stuck at the cross walk exactly once on a 50mph 3 lane road because I couldn't get over before I got to the light.

I signal left turns with my left arm straight out and pointing in the direction I intend to go. Right turns, right arm straight out and pointing in the direction I intend to go. Lane changes, appropriate arm extended downward at a 45 degree angle and pointing to the lane.

I figure anybody that can't figure out what I intend is an ID-10-T.