1) First encounter: I'm riding downtown (Portland). There are no bike lanes, and it's illegal to ride on the sidewalk, so I take the right lane on a three lane one way street. I do this because I don't want to ride in the door zone, and the lane is too narrow to safely share if I ride outside the door zone.
So I take the lane. An SUV passes me in the center lane, then begins to merge into my lane, nearly cutting me off, before the driver sees me and returns to his lane. Farther down the road, he merges into my lane.
Interesting, because according to the anti-bike lane propaganda, cars hit cyclists because they don't notice cyclists in the bike lane, because the only thing that's relevant to drivers is what's in the automobile lane.
Not tonight, HH. No, tonight, I was taking the lane, and the car passed me and still didn't see me.
Admittedly, I wasn't as conspicuous as I would like to be-- no flourescent yellow riding clothes (in fact, I was wearing dark colors); I had a rear blinkie, and a front light, but neither as bright as I would prefer. On the other hand, the street was well-lit, and i did have some lighting, which probably accounts for the fact that the driver saw me before he completed his merge.
So I don't think it was my lower than desired level of conspicuity; I think it was the driver not paying attention to the road. I think it was the driver talking with his passenger. And it definitely wasn't "the bike lane."
This thought passed my mind later, on the way home: Perhaps I was nearly hit because I should be powerweaving between the right lane and the center lane? But then just to be sure everybody saw me, wouldn't I also want to powerweave over into the left lane? Just kind of weave back and forth across all the lanes, over and over, so that I'd be noticed? :lol:
2) Second encounter: This one was interesting. Same street, a few blocks later. I'm in the right lane, for all the reasons mentioned above. I'm riding in the center of the lane, in order to prevent anybody from trying to squeeze past me in the lane. I'm probably riding slower than automobile traffic, although not much slower, and if automobile traffic were observing the speed limit, we'd likely be traveling at the same speed.
So what happens? A driver decides to squeeze past me anyway. I'm in the right lane, a car is slightly ahead of me in the center lane, and a car behind me in my lane squeezes between me and the car in the center lane, then races off before I can do some bodywork on her car.
Again, I'm taking the lane, riding in the center. Not to the right, not in a bike lane.
After this encounter, I adjusted my line closer to the line between my lane and the center lane, so it would be impossible for anybody else to pull that maneuver.
First one a mistake due to driver inattention, second one intentional due to driver irritation.
randya
10-26-06, 10:33 PM
The best place to ride in downtown Portland is the center of the middle lane.
Bekologist
10-26-06, 10:54 PM
i've taken to riding in the opposite lane to maximise my visibility to oncoming traffic. it also cuts down on faster, same direction traffic conflicts.
randya
10-26-06, 11:03 PM
We're talkin' about one-way streets here.
Bekologist
10-26-06, 11:11 PM
powerweave all three lanes then.
...seriously, i get grief from drivers on these types of streets when I'm going faster then them.
I have one section of road in Seattle on my commute, I take a huge hill at a light and am jackrabbit fast ahead of most all the cars, all the time, for the next 3/4 mile or so.
just as some drivers CATCH UP at the next light, in the middle of the hill, a few percent are always inclined to say some witty crap out the window about me 'riding in the road' or such bullshizzle. i read them the riot act.
out the window interactions are seeming a lot less frequent now the weather has gone to dark. bad driving and asswipe drivers haven't.
i'm running major lights in back, it seems to encourage great passing clearances by a lot of cars.
randya
10-26-06, 11:12 PM
powerweave all three lanes then.
Are you sure you want Serge to see this post?!?!?!?
:eek:
Bekologist
10-26-06, 11:20 PM
well, it might be an expansion of his technique then. i have serious doubts serge could pull it off, his DLLP 'Peek-a-boo" systems might be a bit stilted for the urban traffic dance. I like to call it 'motorpacing' city traffic, running traffic signal sprints off the lights. its usually a LOT faster than the cars in downtown, stop and go traffic. being in front at the lights gives a fast rider a huge advantage.
timed roads and uphills a little less so, but catching the timing on fast, four lane one ways is like the middle of the pack at the Indy 500 sometimes. thrilling.
using all lanes on a one way is pretty expedient.
JohnBrooking
10-27-06, 01:13 PM
Sometimes you just can't win, that's all.
galen_52657
10-27-06, 01:35 PM
Sometimes you just can't win, that's all.
Exactly. No amount of lane positioning or riding in a bike lane or shoulder is going to dissuade a certain percentage of idiots from doing dumb things. You just happened to hit two random idiots in quick succession.
If it's any consequence, statistically, you should now be safer for a while....
ghettocruiser
10-27-06, 01:51 PM
^^^ I've had heavy trucks do the same thing (as the first incident) to me Wednesday and Thursday of this week.
- In both cases I was in the centre of a NOL on a three-lane-per-direction road.
- In both cases traffic was slowed to bicycle speed or lower by red lights and volume.
- In both cases a heavy truck (a tri-axel cement mixer Wednesday and a 18-wheeler Thusday) pulled alongside me straddling the right and centre lanes, and then, matching my speed, swung over.
In one case I had a generous shoulder to use, and the other I hopped up the curb. What was odd was that there was none of the usual obscene gesters and screaming from the truck cabs about a bicycle that dared to use the roadway. When I pulled up alongside the semi and gave him the "WTF" look, he was just staring off into the distance.
They saw me enough to not ram me from behind (an ongoing fatality leader in the GTA this year), but as soon as they were alongside just swung back over.
2manybikes
10-27-06, 06:13 PM
Sometimes you just can't win, that's all.
:beer:
Drivers do the same thing to motorcycles, other cars, and huge trucks. It happens to everyone.
sbhikes
10-27-06, 06:40 PM
I've had the same thing happen to me. Them squeezing by despite my best efforts to control the lane. I think there are two problems here. There's only so much asphalt that a skinny little bike can manage and hold on to. And people in cars just believe they have to get around you no matter what, no matter how irrational that is for them.
Things people in cars have issues with, especially if their cars are expensive, SUVs or monster trucks (ego-mobiles):
- allow cyclists to ride in front of them
- allow pedestrians to cross the street
chipcom
10-27-06, 07:55 PM
I've been squeezed and cut-off as much in the lane as not. It comes down to some driver's asserting their 'I'm bigger than you, GTF outta my way - I'm the only person in the world' attitude.
John E
10-27-06, 08:48 PM
I have been right-hooked from across the centerline of a two-lane two-way road, i.e., by some clown who risked a potential head-on collision so that he/she could turn right 100 yards ahead. How can one control cr@p like that?
donnamb
10-27-06, 09:39 PM
I think the situation is only going to get worse. They are beginning the first phases of an immense construction project in downtown Portland to put in more light rail tracks and update our water and sewer system. All the buses are going to be diverted to streets where they usually don't travel, stretches of streets will be periodically shut down. This will be going on for the next 2 years.
"The Next Big Thing Downtown" is going to make for some very unhappy motorists. Who are they going to take it out on? Not the buses...
randya
10-28-06, 11:52 AM
I think the situation is only going to get worse. They are beginning the first phases of an immense construction project in downtown Portland to put in more light rail tracks and update our water and sewer system. All the buses are going to be diverted to streets where they usually don't travel, stretches of streets will be periodically shut down. This will be going on for the next 2 years.
"The Next Big Thing Downtown" is going to make for some very unhappy motorists. Who are they going to take it out on? Not the buses...
It's already going on. All the road construction downtown right now is in preparation for the light rail construction. They are already installing the bus stops on 3rd and 4th and the Water Bureau will soon be laying new 36" line the through the entire downtown. Then the light rail construction begins. In some respects, this is good for cyclists, traffic will be that much slower. IMO, the downside for cyclists is all the temporary patches on the road cuts will remain until final paving. The patches on these utility cuts are of extremely poor quality, making the road surfaces very hazardous, and prone to damage your bike.
Runaway Cyclist
10-29-06, 01:30 AM
After this encounter, I adjusted my line closer to the line between my lane and the center lane, so it would be impossible for anybody else to pull that maneuver.
Okay, but don't be surprised if they try to pass you on your right next time.
I must agree with John:
Sometimes you just can't win, that's all.
:(
Blue Order
10-31-06, 07:52 PM
The night after my original post, I had another two interesting encounters.
First: Riding downtown, again on a one way street, two lanes, cars parked on the right curb, so I take the lane because I don't want to get doored. I'm in the right lane. A car comes up behind me, passes, then attempts to half-merge into my lane at the stop sign; the driver obviously intends to make a right turn from the left lane. I ride up to the stop, block his turn, and look at him and say "what are you doing"? He changes his mind about his obviously illegal maneuver and drives straight ahead.
The common thread between this incident and the incidents from the previous night were that I was taking the lane, and drivers behind me were irritated enough by that to engage in blatantly illegal maneuvers. That's interesting on a number of levels.
First, my "right" to take the lane is subject to interpretation. In the absence of a bike lane, I'm riding as far to the right as is "practicable," which to me means outside the door zone, and because that makes the lane too narrow to share, I take the lane. As i said, my "right" to take the lane is subject to interpretation. However, the response of drivers behind me is not subject to interpretation-- it's been blatantly illegal. On one level, that's somewhat amusing-- they perceive that I'm breaking the law by riding in the lane, so they respond with unquestionably illegal acts.
Second, contrary to the "logic and reason" guru's analysis, I don't believe the bike lane creates this driver attitude. I believe the drivers believe that a bike belongs off the road. Hence, the commonly heard challenge is "get off the road," not "get in the bike lane." Drivers will tolerate a bike lane, although the incidence of right-hooks indicates that they're also willing to violate the bike lane when it suits their purpose. Drivers will tolerate a bike on the right edge of the road. Drivers will tolerate a bike on the sidewalk.
Drivers won't tolerate a bike in "their" lanes. And they'll go to extreme lengths of illegality to make that point.
Second: I arrive home. I have to walk down 20 feet of hallway, then turn and walk another 30 feet to get to my door. As I'm about 5 feet in the first section of hallway, two guys enter the hallway. this hallway is too narrow to fit my bike and a passing pedestrian. So do they wait a few seconds for me to walk 15 feet, before they enter the hallway?
No. They attempt to squeeze by me. The first guy can't quite squeeze by, so he gets my handlebars in his side, the second guy too, but he at least apologizes. I think they're both asses, so I don't offer an apology of my own. They've behaved as if they, not I, had the right of way in that narrow hallway, even though I was already in the hallway when they arrived there. I imagine them getting into their SUV and proving to some cyclist out there that might makes right.
Bekologist
10-31-06, 08:02 PM
.....
The common thread between this incident and the incidents from the previous night were that I was taking the lane, and drivers behind me were irritated enough by that to engage in blatantly illegal maneuvers. That's interesting on a number of levels.
First, my "right" to take the lane is subject to interpretation. In the absence of a bike lane, I'm riding as far to the right as is "practicable," which to me means outside the door zone, and because that makes the lane too narrow to share, I take the lane. As i said, my "right" to take the lane is subject to interpretation. However, the response of drivers behind me is not subject to interpretation-- it's been blatantly illegal. On one level, that's somewhat amusing-- they perceive that I'm breaking the law by riding in the lane, so they respond with unquestionably illegal acts.
Second, contrary to the "logic and reason" guru's analysis, I don't believe the bike lane creates this driver attitude. I believe the drivers believe that a bike belongs off the road. Hence, the commonly heard challenge is "get off the road," not "get in the bike lane." Drivers will tolerate a bike lane, although the incidence of right-hooks indicates that they're also willing to violate the bike lane when it suits their purpose. Drivers will tolerate a bike on the right edge of the road. Drivers will tolerate a bike on the sidewalk.
Drivers won't tolerate a bike in "their" lanes. And they'll go to extreme lengths of illegality to make that point.
I wholeheartedly agree with you on this.
A bicyclists' interpretation of their rights to the roadway is markedly different from 95% of the drivers in the United States, and it sounds like north of the border as well.
monk
10-31-06, 08:13 PM
So you like higher taxes, huh?
Blue Order
10-31-06, 08:20 PM
A bicyclists' interpretation of their rights to the roadway is markedly different from 95% of the drivers in the United States, and it sounds like north of the border as well.I think the difference between what we interpret and what driver's interpret is based on differing perceptions of the orad and traffic.
When we're on a bike, we're aware of the dangers inherent in the door zone. No reasonable driver would travel that close to parked cars at speed, so they take the lane. When we do that, drivers can't understand why we're not riding to the right.
When a lane is too narrow to safely share, we take the lane. What drivers see is a narrow bike hogging the entire lane. What they don't perceive is the danger created when they pass too closely in a lane too narrow to share.
Differing perceptions of the situation, based on whether the person is driving a car or riding a bike. I think the only way to change that is through driver education.
Bill Abbey
10-31-06, 08:42 PM
I'm fine with commercial drivers and their rigs. Granted that I do not have to do the urban commute as so many Bikeforums do, but what really makes me paranoid is (1) beige Buicks (2) Motorhomes (3) Large immaculate SUVs with the wife driving, kiddies in their car seats and a cell phone in her hand. It doesn't matter the road, the state or even the country.
RoseInOregon
10-31-06, 11:19 PM
but what really makes me paranoid is (1) beige Buicks
Hey! Wassamatta with beige Buicks? ;)
Oops--gotta go. I know I shouldn't be posting to BF and drifting from lane to lane in my Buick at the same time...
SSP
11-01-06, 07:01 AM
First: Riding downtown, again on a one way street, two lanes, cars parked on the right curb, so I take the lane because I don't want to get doored. I'm in the right lane. A car comes up behind me, passes, then attempts to half-merge into my lane at the stop sign; the driver obviously intends to make a right turn from the left lane. I ride up to the stop, block his turn, and look at him and say "what are you doing"? He changes his mind about his obviously illegal maneuver and drives straight ahead.
The common thread between this incident and the incidents from the previous night were that I was taking the lane, and drivers behind me were irritated enough by that to engage in blatantly illegal maneuvers. That's interesting on a number of levels.
First, my "right" to take the lane is subject to interpretation. In the absence of a bike lane, I'm riding as far to the right as is "practicable," which to me means outside the door zone, and because that makes the lane too narrow to share, I take the lane. As i said, my "right" to take the lane is subject to interpretation. However, the response of drivers behind me is not subject to interpretation-- it's been blatantly illegal. On one level, that's somewhat amusing-- they perceive that I'm breaking the law by riding in the lane, so they respond with unquestionably illegal acts.
Second, contrary to the "logic and reason" guru's analysis, I don't believe the bike lane creates this driver attitude. I believe the drivers believe that a bike belongs off the road. Hence, the commonly heard challenge is "get off the road," not "get in the bike lane." Drivers will tolerate a bike lane, although the incidence of right-hooks indicates that they're also willing to violate the bike lane when it suits their purpose. Drivers will tolerate a bike on the right edge of the road. Drivers will tolerate a bike on the sidewalk.
Drivers won't tolerate a bike in "their" lanes. And they'll go to extreme lengths of illegality to make that point.
"Extreme lengths of illegality"?? Hitting you or forcing you to take evasive action would be an "extreme" act....this sounds more like a simple F*-up by the driver.
I had a similar incident on my commute last night. A woman in a smallish SUV attempted to pass when I was taking the lane about 20 meters from a stop sign. I detected her attempt in my mirror and sped up just enough that she changed her mind and got in behind me.
But, in the absence of honking/yelling, I don't think incidents like this indicate any deep-seated disrespect towards bikes...instead, I think they represent:
a) driver impatience, and
b) drivers who are unfamiliar with how fast strong cyclists are capable of traveling (compared say, to school kids and ILTB-style riders).
sbhikes
11-01-06, 07:44 AM
I honestly do not think that when drivers do this sort of thing it's a matter of resorting to illegal behavior, or teaching a lesson or whatever. Sometimes it is aggressive, but I think almost always it is not.
I think that the speed differentials set up a situation where the faster-moving motorist simply doesn't know what to do. I know it seems obvious to all of us here, but it is not obvious. It never even seems obvious to me what to do when I'm driving and I see a cyclist in the middle of the road.
Contrary to what other people say, finding a slow-moving bicycle in your lane is not the same situation as finding a slow-moving tractor in your lane. You know what to do when you see a tractor because there's nothing else that can be done. That thing isn't going to budge and you're just going to have to wait. And so is everybody else behind you. Plus they usually aren't going 10-15 mph. Often they are going 30 in a 40mph zone.
So, you're a driver, you're surprised by a cyclist in your path going half your speed or less. What do you do? Do you have time to look over your shoulder and make a lane change? Is your mind clear enough during the event to even think about your options? I think for a lot of people their mind isn't clear enough to think. So you end up with them doing lame ass things. They know it's lame. That's why you see all those weird responses--the shrugs, the ignorning you when you catch them at the light or whatever.
This is what bike lanes help smooth out. They aren't a cure-all for every problem in the world, but they definitely help people not have to figure this stuff out. And you're right. Nobody ever yells out the window "get in the bike lane". In fact, the only thing I've ever heard drivers say is "get out of the bike lane", which they say to other people driving.
genec
11-01-06, 07:55 AM
I honestly do not think that when drivers do this sort of thing it's a matter of resorting to illegal behavior, or teaching a lesson or whatever. Sometimes it is aggressive, but I think almost always it is not.
I think that the speed differentials set up a situation where the faster-moving motorist simply doesn't know what to do. I know it seems obvious to all of us here, but it is not obvious. It never even seems obvious to me what to do when I'm driving and I see a cyclist in the middle of the road.
Contrary to what other people say, finding a slow-moving bicycle in your lane is not the same situation as finding a slow-moving tractor in your lane. You know what to do when you see a tractor because there's nothing else that can be done. That thing isn't going to budge and you're just going to have to wait. And so is everybody else behind you. Plus they usually aren't going 10-15 mph. Often they are going 30 in a 40mph zone.
So, you're a driver, you're surprised by a cyclist in your path going half your speed or less. What do you do? Do you have time to look over your shoulder and make a lane change? Is your mind clear enough during the event to even think about your options? I think for a lot of people their mind isn't clear enough to think. So you end up with them doing lame ass things. They know it's lame. That's why you see all those weird responses--the shrugs, the ignorning you when you catch them at the light or whatever.
This is what bike lanes help smooth out. They aren't a cure-all for every problem in the world, but they definitely help people not have to figure this stuff out. And you're right. Nobody ever yells out the window "get in the bike lane". In fact, the only thing I've ever heard drivers say is "get out of the bike lane", which they say to other people driving.
OK but bike lanes don't exist everywhere... So the need to take the lane does... and the response of the drivers should be very simple... they need to slow down and wait their turn. That action is exactly what they would do if confronted with a tractor in their lane... and we should be treated no differently.
As far as illegal and stupid traffic actions... when a motorist aggressively passes you, fully over and beyond the double yellow stripe, and within feet of a stop sign (thus putting themselves in harms way of any on coming traffic) that is a blatent and stupid move on their part.
LittleBigMan
11-01-06, 07:57 AM
...I take the lane. An SUV passes me in the center lane, then begins to merge into my lane, nearly cutting me off, before the driver sees me and returns to his lane. Farther down the road, he merges into my lane...
Admittedly, I wasn't as conspicuous as I would like to be-- no flourescent yellow riding clothes (in fact, I was wearing dark colors); I had a rear blinkie, and a front light, but neither as bright as I would prefer. On the other hand, the street was well-lit, and i did have some lighting, which probably accounts for the fact that the driver saw me before he completed his merge.
...I'm probably riding slower than automobile traffic, although not much slower, and if automobile traffic were observing the speed limit, we'd likely be traveling at the same speed.
My guess is that drivers just don't expect us to be riding a fast as we are, and since we are not as visible in mirrors as other motorists, these drivers sometimes pass us and merge too closely to us, thinking we are much further back.
I'm in the right lane...riding in the center of the lane, in order to prevent anybody from trying to squeeze past me in the lane. I'm probably riding slower than automobile traffic, although not much slower, and if automobile traffic were observing the speed limit, we'd likely be traveling at the same speed.
So what happens? A driver decides to squeeze past me anyway...
After this encounter, I adjusted my line closer to the line between my lane and the center lane, so it would be impossible for anybody else to pull that maneuver.
I think I'd have handled both those situations the same way you did.
DCCommuter
11-01-06, 08:41 AM
Nobody ever yells out the window "get in the bike lane".
Actually, I hear that quite a bit. Almost always on roads that don't have a bike lane!
flipped4bikes
11-01-06, 08:49 AM
Sometimes you just can't win, that's all.
A man of much wisdom. Yes, it's that simple...
genec
11-01-06, 09:22 AM
Actually, I hear that quite a bit. Almost always on roads that don't have a bike lane!
Yeah I have heard it too... on roads that had wide painted parking or artificial painted islands and curbs... the stupid drivers did not even realize that there were no bike lanes.
LCI_Brian
11-01-06, 10:30 AM
Nobody ever yells out the window "get in the bike lane".
Actually, that's the most common thing I hear from drivers - especially in one location where I'm using the through lane, as the bike lane is striped to the right of two lanes that will merge onto the freeway.
wheel
11-01-06, 10:40 AM
It's already going on. All the road construction downtown right now is in preparation for the light rail construction. They are already installing the bus stops on 3rd and 4th and the Water Bureau will soon be laying new 36" line the through the entire downtown. Then the light rail construction begins. In some respects, this is good for cyclists, traffic will be that much slower. IMO, the downside for cyclists is all the temporary patches on the road cuts will remain until final paving. The patches on these utility cuts are of extremely poor quality, making the road surfaces very hazardous, and prone to damage your bike.
Well sometimes all you can say is I am alive!
We have the same deal, only a road which handles 40,000 cars a day went down to one Pusedo cone lane.
With numerous trenches. I think they are the worst to go over. Lane position is at best a nightmare. Coned off sections will go from 20 feet lanes to 7 feet. It forces me to merge into oncomming traffic.
Bill Abbey
11-01-06, 01:27 PM
Hey! Wassamatta with beige Buicks? ;)
Oops--gotta go. I know I shouldn't be posting to BF and drifting from lane to lane in my Buick at the same time...
I am not paranoid. Not when they are really after you. :D Three (3) times, as I crossed the UP, Ontario and New York I was nearly taken out by beige buicks. One time it was by a guy passing a string of vehicles (maybe 8) including two tracter trailers. Tehy all were oncominmg. The Buick actually crossed the fogline and drifted onto the shoulder and I was forced to bail out down and across a field of gravel. The rest were just older drivers being drifty and unaware. No intentional harm, just lack of awarness and recognition. They seen to be attracted to beige buicks. I love Eugene and the ride to Florence
SSP
11-01-06, 01:41 PM
I am not paranoid. Not when they are really after you. :D Three (3) times, as I crossed the UP, Ontario and New York I was nearly taken out by beige buicks. One time it was by a guy passing a string of vehicles (maybe 8) including two tracter trailers. Tehy all were oncominmg. The Buick actually crossed the fogline and drifted onto the shoulder and I was forced to bail out down and across a field of gravel. The rest were just older drivers being drifty and unaware. No intentional harm, just lack of awarness and recognition. They seen to be attracted to beige buicks. I love Eugene and the ride to Florence
Now that you mention it, my last car accident (about 8 years ago) was caused by an 83-year old guy in a beige Buick. He was driving south in the northbound lane of a 50 mph road, forcing oncoming cars to take evasive action. The driver ahead of me made a quick move to the side of the road and then stopped there...I had to do the same to avoid a head-on collision, but didn't have time to stop before running into the back of the guy who'd stopped ahead of me.
As I sat there wondering "WTF just happened?", I looked to my left to see the old guy go by with a Mr. Magoo, deer-in-the-headlights, look of total incomprehension on his face. He kept driving south, clearly not understanding what was going on around him. :eek: Fortunately, other drivers followed him and reported his license number to the police...and, as luck would have it, all 3 vehicles were covered by the same insurance company.
Blue Order
11-01-06, 02:21 PM
"Extreme lengths of illegality"?? Hitting you or forcing you to take evasive action would be an "extreme" act....this sounds more like a simple F*-up by the driver.I don't think attempting to make a right turn from the left lane after passing me is a f-up, I think it's a driver who willfully breaks laws to get around a bicyclist. The irony is the driver probably perceives that I'm doing something illegal, and responds by doing something illegal.
I had a similar incident on my commute last night. A woman in a smallish SUV attempted to pass when I was taking the lane about 20 meters from a stop sign. I detected her attempt in my mirror and sped up just enough that she changed her mind and got in behind me.
But, in the absence of honking/yelling, I don't think incidents like this indicate any deep-seated disrespect towards bikes...instead, I think they represent:
a) driver impatience, and
b) drivers who are unfamiliar with how fast strong cyclists are capable of traveling (compared say, to school kids and ILTB-style riders).I agree with (a) and (b). But I think the driver who squeezed between me and the car in the incident in the first post was definitely displaying a deep-seated disrespect towards bikes. And the incident with the driver in the first post who merged into my lane was just driver error.
LittleBigMan
11-02-06, 07:33 AM
I think that the speed differentials set up a situation where the faster-moving motorist simply doesn't know what to do. I know it seems obvious to all of us here, but it is not obvious. It never even seems obvious to me what to do when I'm driving and I see a cyclist in the middle of the road.
Very well put. It's one thing to say, "Cyclists should learn to take the lane, or even the center of the lane," etc., but how many motorists are educated enough to know what you are doing? Where I live, many are suprised I'm on the road at all, much less positioning myself where I do. They seem to figure it out, but still, I often forget that what's "normal" for me is a totally suprising thing for many motorists.
This is what bike lanes help smooth out. They aren't a cure-all for every problem in the world, but they definitely help people not have to figure this stuff out. And you're right. Nobody ever yells out the window "get in the bike lane". In fact, the only thing I've ever heard drivers say is "get out of the bike lane", which they say to other people driving.
Yes, I can see that bike lanes help motorists to expect cyclists to be on the road. I think motorists also need more education about us cyclists, about how we approach certain traffic situations, so they can predict what we might do. In places where motorist encounter few cyclists (who often ride in different ways or different places,) motorists often don't have the experience or knowledge to know what we cyclists might do, even though we are doing what seems perfectly normal to us.
genec
11-02-06, 09:02 AM
Yes, I can see that bike lanes help motorists to expect cyclists to be on the road. I think motorists also need more education about us cyclists, about how we approach certain traffic situations, so they can predict what we might do. In places where motorist encounter few cyclists (who often ride in different ways or different places,) motorists often don't have the experience or knowledge to know what we cyclists might do, even though we are doing what seems perfectly normal to us.
Exactly. And of course cyclists should be predictable. But the whole idea of getting motorists to be aware of us "as part of traffic" vice just "some obstacle to avoid" is something that really needs to be part of driver training.
This video is a great start: http://bikelib.org/video/index.htm
noisebeam
11-02-06, 10:09 AM
This is what bike lanes help smooth out. They aren't a cure-all for every problem in the world, but they definitely help people not have to figure this stuff out. And you're right. Nobody ever yells out the window "get in the bike lane". In fact, the only thing I've ever heard drivers say is "get out of the bike lane", which they say to other people driving.
Wide outside lanes do the same, but without many of the downsides that bike lane stripes add. I get 'get in the bike lane' far more often than any other comment. I've never been told to get off the road when using a WOL, even when using centerish position.
If you want to get motorist attention that cyclists may be on road - there are two options. Put painted bicycle icons in middle of WOL or post (well designed) 'share the road' signs along WOL. Both are prefered over a BL stripe as they don't imply to motorists where cyclists 'should be.'
Al