They exist, at least in theory to help protect us, the citizens. For their trouble/sacrifice/putting themselves in harms way, they generally are way underpaid.

I have several friends who are cops. 100% of them became cops out of a desire to serve their community. And it is a thankless job most of the time.



I have friends who are cops too and in Northern New Jersey they are paid quite well and have excellent benefits and retire with excellent benefits. And none have them would ever refer to their job as thankless. These guys are for the most part good cops. And when I explained to them what happened to me, they said the cop was way out of line and that they would never have done that.

But there are plenty of bad cops in New Jersey. Here is a reply to a thread by cruentus:

I live in Bergen County, New Jersey and I've had experience with filing complaints against asswipe cops -- not involving bike riding. You must understand that New Jersey is easily the most corrupt state in the Union. Jersey cops are all hired through cronyism or nepotism. Being a jackass is a job prerequisite for becoming a cop in the State of New Jersey. BTW, cops in Northern New Jersey are the highest paid in the country with salaries that average around $95K/yr with a benefits package that would make a third world dictator envious.

Unless you have been seriously injured by a Jersey cop, complaints against cops in New Jersey are a waste of time. Judges in this state will never take your side against a cop unless you are wealthy, or politically connected. I know, I've been there.

Third, never appear in court in New Jersey "Pro-Se". If you insist on filing a complaint against a cop, YOU MUST BE REPRESENTED BY COUNCIL OR YOU WILL BE VERY SORRY. Jersey judges look upon Pro-Se litigants as being lower than whale crap. Not only will you lose, but you'll probably end up in jail as well.

You have been warned.

http://75.126.17.35/showthread.php?t=104611&page=3

Everyone knows that all a beat cop has to do to get on the fast lane to a detective's shield is to make a half dozen bicycle rider arrests. It's even part of the system as a whole because bike arrest paper work is much more enjoyable than regular criminal paper work.

Okay, the reality for me is that it's hard to get a cop to notice me on a bike unless I am being a complete and total schmuck. Marginally schmuckish just won't cut it. It's got to be complete and total, or they will just drive pass.

Okay, the reality for me is...
Hey! What's with this reality rap? We are talking about honest to gosh brazen brutality here. Why I heard of a policeman who even once looked crosseyed at a bicyclist. Oh the horror!

To listen to the whiners: First the evil doers came for the skateboarders, then the bicyclists, next it will be the motorcyclists subjected to the Police State Tactics of the Motoring Barbarians.

Hey! What's with this reality rap? We are talking about honest to gosh brazen brutality here. Why I heard of a policeman who even once looked crosseyed at a bicyclist. Oh the horror!

To listen to the whiners: First the evil doers came for the skateboarders, then the bicyclists, next it will be the motorcyclists subjected to the Police State Tactics of the Motoring Barbarians.


maroon

but have no regard for the law when it is an inconvinence for them, blowing stop signs/red lights, wearing mp3's, no helmet, and get mad and bad mouth the police after. Amazes me. Um... you are not showing yourself off in a good light here. Helmets are not required by law in Ontario, and wearing headphones is permitted. If you decide to scold people for breaking the law, it might be wise to learn what the law actually is. Right now you are acting exactly like the clueless police officer who orders cyclists to go on the sidewalk.

Um... you are not showing yourself off in a good light here. Helmets are not required by law in Ontario, and wearing headphones is permitted. If you decide to scold people for breaking the law, it might be wise to learn what the law actually is. Right now you are acting exactly like the clueless police officer who orders cyclists to go on the sidewalk.

I never said anything about Ontario.

I never said anything about Ontario. Ok. I misread it as your complaints about local riders. But I guess you mean some of the BF crowd who live in places where helmet and no headphones are mandatory. I regret my error. :)

Ok. I misread it as your complaints about local riders. But I guess you mean some of the BF crowd who live in places where helmet and no headphones are mandatory. I regret my error. :)

No problem. Was exactly what I meant. Cheers.

Ok. I misread it as your complaints about local riders. But I guess you mean some of the BF crowd who live in places where helmet and no headphones are mandatory. I regret my error. :)
Too bad for the BF crowd that live in such unfriendly places, if those goof ball nanny laws are actually enforced. Even worse if their so called bicycling advocates are for enactment and enforcement by the cops of such laws.

Too bad for the BF crowd that live in such unfriendly places, if those goof ball nanny laws are actually enforced. Even worse if their so called bicycling advocates are for enactment and enforcement by the cops of such laws. I agree completely. But they are laws nevertheless, and demands of selective law enforcement by cyclists look a bit strange... especially given how many cycling-related laws motorists consider "goofball"...

I agree completely. But they are laws nevertheless, and demands of selective law enforcement by cyclists look a bit strange... especially given how many cycling-related laws motorists consider "goofball"...
I wasn't aware that anybody (cyclist or motorist) cared about enforcing "cycling-related laws" on cyclists except for BF list debaters.

....One of the reasons many of us bring out issues of abuse by cop on bike forums is that bicyclists are too often treated as second class users of public roads by cagers and when a cop whose job it is to protect us, violates our rights, or ignores our rights like many cagers, it makes it all the more infuriating. ...
I think one reason why some people might consistently have trouble while others don't has to do with their attitude and how they act. For example, Portland has a reputation for being one of the most bicycle friendly places in the country, but you'd never guess that from BF.

If you act like a second class citizen, you will be treated as such. If you choose to assert your rights without any regard for others -- i.e. you exercise them wherever and whenever you choose to prove that you have them -- you shouldn't be surprised when you provoke people. BTW, if you paint drivers and cops with the same brush, your complaints about people who hold negative stereotypes about cyclists will fall on deaf ears.

A certain amount of abuse on the roads is inevitable,so the occasional incident should not be blown up into some huge matter of principle. All I ask is to be treated like other traffic, and my observation is that the drivers consistently treat each other worse than they treat me.

. . . I've been a cop for 24 years now and currently run the Patrol division in my department. . . . I'm particularly fond of the comments by those posters who indicate that if they're polite to the officers, they're treated with respect in return. It almost always works that way. Anyone who thinks otherwise didn't listen to their mother when she told them about first impressions. . . .
This is an important point. I've been pulled over twice while driving. One of the times, I deserved a ticket, the other I didn't. Both times, I was very polite to the officer, and both times I drove away without a ticket.

In my experience, police in NC who know the law (the actual law, not the taboos and rumors about the law) treat cyclists fairly.

A lot of police here don't know the law regarding cyclists, and so there have been a few harassment problems involving police telling cyclists to get out of the road or out of the way of motorists in narrow lanes. These incidents can have a chilling effect on cycling. But once these police learn the law, specifically how the department expects them to treat the law, the problem stops.

The important point is that getting police to understand the law requires a much less confrontational approach than an improperly stopped or harassed cyclist is likely to feel like using. It is best done with polite follow-up communication with the department, including a badge number. If one can get past that obstacle, then constructive things happen.

I concur with your entire well-stated post, but it certainly would be alot easier if police officers were trained in bicycle law in the first place.

Well I will concede, police are people too...subjuect to the whims
of their moods etc. Bicyclists are people too and can be quite snotty
and egotistical (yes me too).

My issue with police is that they are routinly violating certain
rights in regard to the 4th and 5th amendmant. This is a problem
higher up than the individual officer unfortunatly, it goes all the way
to a neo-conservative tilted supreme court.

This is allowing police to go beyond normal protocols giving them
"probable cause" during routine stops to search you. Ask questions,
and demand things they couldn't do just a few years ago.

We sit there and LET the govt. get out of control in the name of "security"
at the expense of freedome. It's time people wake up and stop this.

OK, but hearsay only... remember, I asked for documented cases. A ticket would have been documentation. I wonder what would have happened if you continued on that road.

What hearsay? Hearsay is if I am telling you that someone told me a story about being harrassed by a cop.

I am relating something that happened to ME! That is not hearsay.

So are you calling me a liar? Obviously the only evidence you will accept is evidence that supports your position. Any contrary evidence will have an insurmountable burden before yopu accept it as proof, right?. If I had affidavits from a busload of bishops, would that suffice?

In Colorado, in order for our over-bloated govt. (including a very fat and happy FD and PD)
to spend tax surplus, or raise taxes it has to be approved by voters, and they (govt) totaly hate it.
check out our ref. 200 -201 on the ballot here. I'm voting for it.
So cops at all levels have their budget set by popular vote? If the people can't figure out what to do if they don't like their popularly elected government, I'm not sure I'd have high expectations for their ability to set public policy directly.

Third, never appear in court in New Jersey "Pro-Se".

If you look up the Latin translation for pro se you will find that it means "anyone foolhardy enough to represent himself in a court of law." Given the fact that well in excess of 90% of defendants are convicted with an attorney, going it alone is suicidal.

in order for our over-bloated govt. (including a very fat and happy FD and PD)


During my career I heard people ***** and complain about salaries, work schedules, and just about everything else. I suppose they felt that paying taxes gave them the right to give me a yard of ****. But you know, I never heard anybody complaining when smoke was banked down to the floor and people were still inside.

Cops are good folk. That's a hell of a job putting up with us (the general population).
The only problem I've had with an officer is when one passed me with just a few inches to spare, and I slapped the top of his cruiser. He stopped, and got out pissed off. I told him if I had a horn I would have laid on it instead, I was trying to prevent him from running me down, and he should be more careful or less flippant with the lives of others. He apologized, we shook hands, and get along well now.
If you want to find someone who is cynical about the public, talk to a career bartender.

--A

What hearsay? Hearsay is if I am telling you that someone told me a story about being harrassed by a cop.

I am relating something that happened to ME! That is not hearsay.

So are you calling me a liar? Obviously the only evidence you will accept is evidence that supports your position. Any contrary evidence will have an insurmountable burden before yopu accept it as proof, right?. If I had affidavits from a busload of bishops, would that suffice?

Actually I don't have a position... or if I do, it is one slanted towards believing that some cops... in particular those in NYC, may indeed have harassed cyclists above and beyond what was required to maintain law and order. But sadly in this situation of legal issues (IE dealing with Law Enforcement) the burden of proof is on the "defendent." In other words, ya gotta have evidence... not just a verbal claim.

There is evidence on the NYCPD activity... and certainly it appears as though the LEOs went beyond reasonable bounds... but there is no video showing what lead up to the confrontations.

Austin bike groups have a whole page on inequities... but again, little evidence.

My own experience has been positive, based on how I reacted to the situations... so I have to ask... in any such case of abuse, what might have proceded that abuse?

Now it is possible that this might be considered abuse...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VemXr9JPv9U

NYC cops stopping a rather peaceful CM group of riders as they approach a GREEN lignt... perhaps the only thing the cyclists were doing wrong was riding en masse. NYC calls that a parade.

This is an important point. I've been pulled over twice while driving. One of the times, I deserved a ticket, the other I didn't. Both times, I was very polite to the officer, and both times I drove away without a ticket.

D@mn. I thought I was the only guy who had ever been pulled over for a ticket when I deserved it. Two come to mind and I was one for 2 on getting off just by not being rude. First was going way over the speed limit on the freeway. In hte end the cop wrote me up for 65 (back in the days of 55). Perhaps it was theat i seemed really worried or perhaps it was that he got to use the line 'Sir, do you know how long it took me to catch you?'. Other was going 85 (65 limit). The CHP Sarge asked if I had 40 dollars I just wanted to throw away. I said 'No, sir' stop over. He got going before I did. About 4 miles later I passed him, he already had someone else. I'd bet he did just fine on numbers of tickets however, some drivers (and cyclists) seem to be very good at talking themself into trouble.

D@mn. I thought I was the only guy who had ever been pulled over for a ticket when I deserved it.
Nope. My last one was earned too. In about 1993 a State Policeman stopped me in a rental car near Susanville, CA in the high desert at about 95 mph. He was generous and wrote 80mph on the ticket. He must have been hiding behind a tumbleweed because he came from nowhere. Maybe he was conspicuously invisible in an invisible bike lane. Cost me $146 which I paid by mail 6 weeks later with no points.

Though this was a controversial article (http://bikeportland.org/2006/08/15/riding-along-with-officer-hoesly/) locally, I appreciated that our Portland Bike Blogger Extraordinairre made this effort to foster good relations between the police and the bike community. I've personally witnessed the police in Portland do some pretty awful things to peaceful, law abiding people - some on bikes and others not. I will say that compared to what I've seen police do in Detroit, Philadelphia, and Los Angeles, Portland's are tame, well-mannered, and nowhere near corrupt. I have a great deal of respect for them. I'm certainly relieved to see the police when we have to call 911 because of a potentially violent client at work. Of course they could do better, and I hope the public continues to hold them accountable for their errors. When the citizenry begins to knee-jerk accept anything the police do - no matter how wrong - the seeds of corruption are easily planted. Just like any government branch that has the ability to use force on the populace, you have to balance support with the questioning of their activities. If you live in a place where that has become impossible, you've got some real problems.

Do you know of cops who actually pick on cyclists for piddly violations or do you think that their problems are largely self inflicted?

Yes, I've been picked on. I've personally been stopped by police and ordered by them to violate city ordinances when I was not violating any laws before they stopped me. Specifically I was in the proper location on the street in a business zone and ordered by the officer to ride on the sidewalk.

But your attitude has a lot to do with the outcome of the situation. You have to keep a clear head, defend your rights, and look for an amenable solution, don't goad them on and act in a confrontational manner.

In my case with the above situation, the final outcome of the situation was that the officer received a reprimand from her superiors, because I was civil and complied with her illegal order, but I asked for her badge number and when she refused, I took down her license, and upon arriving at work I called the police, got clarification on the situation and talked with the right person at the department. (Sargents of the bicycle patrol can be your best friend).

So yes, cops do pick on bicyclists. But that doesn't mean that you have to descend to their level.

What hearsay? Hearsay is if I am telling you that someone told me a story about being harrassed by a cop.

I am relating something that happened to ME! That is not hearsay.

So are you calling me a liar? Obviously the only evidence you will accept is evidence that supports your position. Any contrary evidence will have an insurmountable burden before yopu accept it as proof, right?. If I had affidavits from a busload of bishops, would that suffice?

Exactly. Thanks for putting that so well.

genec responded, but still did not answer your questions.

Exactly. Thanks for putting that so well.

genec responded, but still did not answer your questions.

I answered his question... I did not call him a liar, but simply indicated that without proof, it is a matter of his word against a cop... how long do you think that would fly in a courtroom?

I believe him... but it takes hard evidence if something like this is ever going to be pursued legally.

Yes, I've been picked on. I've personally been stopped by police and ordered by them to violate city ordinances when I was not violating any laws before they stopped me. Specifically I was in the proper location on the street in a business zone and ordered by the officer to ride on the sidewalk.

But your attitude has a lot to do with the outcome of the situation. You have to keep a clear head, defend your rights, and look for an amenable solution, don't goad them on and act in a confrontational manner.

In my case with the above situation, the final outcome of the situation was that the officer received a reprimand from her superiors, because I was civil and complied with her illegal order, but I asked for her badge number and when she refused, I took down her license, and upon arriving at work I called the police, got clarification on the situation and talked with the right person at the department. (Sargents of the bicycle patrol can be your best friend).

So yes, cops do pick on bicyclists. But that doesn't mean that you have to descend to their level.

Actually, police officers have the power to direct traffic. For example, when you come to a red light but a police officer waves you through, you just ignore the red light and keep on going. Most of the time you would not take down the license plate of the police car when a police officer wave you through a red light (to be sure he is doing the right thing).

So, if a police officer directs you to ride on the side walk, just do so. Legally speaking, you do not have a choice. Of course, the city council will get into a publicity problem if a by-law enforcement officer further down gives you a ticket for riding on the sidewalks.

Note that in Ontario, it is not against the Highway Traffic Act to ride on the sidewalks. That comes under municipal jurisdiction, ie, local by-laws. However, there is a catch: municipal by-law enforcement officers do not have the authority to direct traffic.

Exactly. How many motorists get dragged from their cars, handcuffed, pepper sprayed and arrested for running a light?
This is a quick digression, but a local county near where I live actually won a Supreme Court case exactly on this. A police officer arrested a lady for running a red light (didn't give her a ticket... hauled her off to jail for it.) She sued, and the Supremes ruled against her -- any city or town *can* toss someone in jail for traffic offenses rather than handing out tickets. However most cities and towns generally don't -- less money in it for them [1].

[1]: There are some towns in Arizona I've passed through which do a nasty trick. Highway speed limit is 65. Then there is a bush, then a sign reducing the speed limit to 20mph for a good amount of the day ("school zone", though no school is even around.) After that sign, there is a cop near a building. I found out about the trap on the Net before I went to AZ, wandered through the town at slow speeds, and found from locals that is how the town makes a good portion of the city revenue -- the local police arrest people for reckless driving (going 40+mph over the speed limit), people post $500-$1000 bail... and most people won't be coming back that way for a ticket trial, so the town keeps the bail money, and gets an arrest warrent to drag the person in again to boot. All perfectly legal.

I agree mostly with what the copper here has said.

The only time I ever had an interaction with a cop while on my bike, I was riding home from work at 1 AM and he stopped me to tell me that I wasn't visible enough. Turned out my blinkie had fallen off of my backpack at somepoint on the ride. Nice to know he was looking out for me. Followed me for a while until I got to a part of the streetwith better lighting. And that was it.

Hey BF cops!

What's your take on all these BF members complaining about harassment by the cops? In my past, I aslo felt harassed, Later I decided that my attitude brought my problems on me because once I took that huge chip off my shoulder, my confrontations with society (and the cops) suddenly ceased.

So what's the scoop? Do you know of cops who actually pick on cyclists for piddly violations or do you think that their problems are largely self inflicted?
There may be some of this in some jurisdictions. I doubt it is common at all. I have never seen any here.

As far as the CM incidents... For some the whole purpose of CM is to provoke. Some overreaction is likely in that situation.

You just have to read what is posted without any bias to be suspicious of a lot of the content here. 90% or more of what is said in the Advocacy and Safety forum is filtered out by my bull sh** filter.

90% or more of what is said in the Advocacy and Safety forum is filtered out by my bull sh** filter.
Crocodile tear commentary about CM pegged my meter.

Two days ago, I ran a red light in front of a cop and he didn't do anything. That night I was walking in the street (on the left edge) because the sidewalks were icy. A cop stopped me and told me I should be using the sidewalk "whenever one is provided for you." So, I guess you can't make generalizations. Actually, the second cop was doing her job better than the first one, even if some people might have seen it as harassment..

As atypical road users, cyclists are sensitive to all people who, as they perceive, act badly towards them. Cops are easy to spot. And in keeping with the rule of selective noticing, we only seem to remember the bad seeds or the ones sitting in the dough nut shop. That is we tend to only notice the ones that meet our preconceived notions. And that goes for us and drivers. The drivers tend only to notice the bad bikers.

Mostly cops leave me alone.