Rear reflector law requirements

[noisebeam]

AZ law states:
must have "...red reflector on the rear of a type that is approved by the department and that is visible from all distances from fifty feet to three hundred feet to the rear when the reflector is directly in front of lawful upper beams of head lamps on a motor vehicle"

My question that I can't find is what does 'approved by the department' mean? DOT, CSPC, ANSI?

Does DOT conspicuity tape (that I got at a truck stop) fit the bill? Does a DOT reflector?

(This is not meant to be about what is the best lighting, reflector, pro/cons of each, etc. just what is needed to meet the law - I go above and beyond anyway - especially in the lighting and DOT reflective taping category, but I don't have a CSPC red reflector)

Al

[LittleBigMan]

Al,

I think if whatever you use is visible enough, the police will not bother you about details.

[noisebeam]

Al,

I think if whatever you use is visible enough, the police will not bother you about details.
I understand. I just want to know how to without doubt meet the letter of the law. Maybe the police won't care, but it could be used as an arguement by some lawyer of a driver who hit me at night. Even if an unsuccessful argument (since I was slathered in DOT tape and use two fuctioning active lights including an LD-1000s) I just don't even want the window for that argument.

Al

[LittleBigMan]

Try a rear reflector from the auto parts store. Then test it from 300 feet.

[I-Like-To-Bike]

I just want to know how to without doubt meet the letter of the law. Maybe the police won't care, but it could be used as an arguement by some lawyer of a driver who hit me at night. Even if an unsuccessful argument (since I was slathered in DOT tape and use two fuctioning LD-1000s) I don't even want the opportunity for that.
Rest your imagination and don't lose sleep over such remote "opportunities."

[noisebeam]

Rest your imagination and don't lose sleep over such remote "opportunities."
I'm really seriously not imagining any such opportunities, except to give a reason to BF why I want to know how to fully and with out doubt comply to the law.
LBM above suggested an autoparts store reflector. Fine, its DOT.
But will lots of DOT conspicuity tape suffice? Should I eliminate an active LD-1000 to replace with a red DOT reflector? There is only so much space on my bike (I have a CSPC reflector on my body)
Al

[ghettocruiser]

Some additional reading on this topic:

http://www.velonews.com/news/fea/11094.0.html

[noisebeam]

Some additional reading on this topic:

http://www.velonews.com/news/fea/11094.0.html
Right so what does "approved by The Department" mean in AZ or "Approved by the Deptartment of Public Safety" mean in MN?

Al

[noisebeam]

Right so what does "approved by The Department" mean in AZ or "Approved by the Deptartment of Public Safety" mean in MN?

Al
Oh, doh, I found it in Definitions (http://www.azleg.state.az.us/FormatDocument.asp?inDoc=/ars/28/00101.htm&Title=28&DocType=ARS)section

15. "Department" means the department of transportation acting directly or through its duly authorized officers and agents.

Can I assume that a DOT approved reflector is approved by DOT for use on bicycle and fulfills the law ;)
What about CSPC reflectors? Does DOT approve those for use on bicycles?

Al

[randya]

Althoug CPSC reflectors are what comes on new bikes, the DOT / SAE reflectors actually work better with a car approaching directly from behind, because they typically have a larger reflective surface than the CPSC reflectors (but you probably knew this already).

[sggoodri]

Oh, doh, I found it in Definitions (http://www.azleg.state.az.us/FormatDocument.asp?inDoc=/ars/28/00101.htm&Title=28&DocType=ARS)section

15. "Department" means the department of transportation acting directly or through its duly authorized officers and agents.

Can I assume that a DOT approved reflector is approved by DOT for use on bicycle and fulfills the law ;)
What about CSPC reflectors? Does DOT approve those for use on bicycles?

Al

As we know, the CPSC reflectors required to be installed on bikes are much smaller and dimmer than reflectors sold in auto parts stores. CPSC has no accountability to USDOT or state DOTs. I see no evidence that state DOTs or USDOT test the performance of or analyze the design of CPSC-approved reflectors. But as ILTB would say, no law enforcement officer will question whether or not a CPSC reflector meets the requirements of the law, even if it doesn't, since the CPSC is the legal "authority," incompetent or not, on bicycle reflectors.

I've NOT seen enough CPSC rear bike reflectors at reasonable distance when driving my car at night that I won't trust them. I use trailer reflectors purchased from auto supply sources to supplement my rear lamp.

[noisebeam]

As we know, the CPSC reflectors required to be installed on bikes are much smaller and dimmer than reflectors sold in auto parts stores. CPSC has no accountability to USDOT or state DOTs. I see no evidence that state DOTs or USDOT test the performance of or analyze the design of CPSC-approved reflectors. But as ILTB would say, no law enforcement officer will question whether or not a CPSC reflector meets the requirements of the law, even if it doesn't, since the CPSC is the legal "authority," incompetent or not, on bicycle reflectors.

I've NOT seen enough CPSC rear bike reflectors at reasonable distance when driving my car at night that I won't trust them. I use trailer reflectors purchased from auto supply sources to supplement my rear lamp.
Totally understand. I use lots of DOT (truck conspicuity) tape, an active LD-1000, and a cateye active/CSPC reflector. My driveways tests find that the DOT tape is better than the CSPC reflector built into the cateye light.
Perhaps I should replace the cateye with a passive DOT reflector. But then I'd be down to one active (but good) rear light. mounted to bike.

Al

[randya]

All you really need is one active light in the rear, and in fact, many states don't legally require anything but a rear reflector. I usually have one dyno-driven taillight, but I do have a few bikes with nothing but reflectors and reflective tape on the rear.

[noisebeam]

All you really need is one active light in the rear, and in fact, many states don't legally require anything but a rear reflector. I usually have one dyno-driven taillight, but I do have a few bikes with nothing but reflectors and reflective tape on the rear.
All that is required here is a 'department approved' rear reflector with optional active light.

mechBgone might not agree that only one active light is sufficient, especially if just an LD-1000. ;)

Al

[Recycle]

Here is the section from the Illinois Motor Vehicle code. It specifies the distance and conditions under which the reflector must be visible.

Note also that the reflector is required even if a rear light is used.


Sec. 11‑1507. Lamps and other equipment on bicycles.

(a) Every bicycle when in use at nighttime shall be equipped with a lamp on the front which shall emit a white light visible from a distance of at least 500 feet to the front and with a red reflector on the rear of a type approved by the Department which shall be visible from all distances from 100 feet to 600 feet to the rear when directly in front of lawful lower beams of headlamps on a motor vehicle. A lamp emitting a red light visible from a distance of 500 feet to the rear may be used in addition to the red reflector.


(b) A bicycle shall not be equipped with nor shall any person use upon a bicycle any siren.


(c) Every bicycle shall be equipped with a brake which will adequately control movement of and stop and hold such bicycle.


(d) No person shall sell a new bicycle or pedal for use on a bicycle that is not equipped with a reflex reflector conforming to specifications prescribed by the Department, on each pedal, visible from the front and rear of the bicycle during darkness from a distance of 200 feet.


(e) No person shall sell or offer for sale a new bicycle that is not equipped with side reflectors. Such reflectors shall be visible from each side of the bicycle from a distance of 500 feet and shall be essentially colorless or red to the rear of the center of the bicycle and essentially colorless or amber to the front of the center of the bicycle provided. The requirements of this paragraph may be met by reflective materials which shall be at least 3/16 of an inch wide on each side of each tire or rim to indicate as clearly as possible the continuous circular shape and size of the tires or rims of such bicycle and which reflective materials may be of the same color on both the front and rear tire or rim. Such reflectors shall conform to specifications prescribed by the Department.


(f) No person shall sell or offer for sale a new bicycle that is not equipped with an essentially colorless front‑facing reflector.

[CB HI]

Al,

I think if whatever you use is visible enough, the police will not bother you about details.
Maybe not the cops, but some defense lawyer may claim it is your fault his client hit you from behind because your reflector/reflective tape and light did not precisely meet the DOT approved reflector. How could his client possibly see you on the road with just a LD-1000 light and your entire bike covered in reflective tape?

[randya]

Maybe not the cops, but some defense lawyer may claim it is your fault his client hit you from behind because your reflector/reflective tape and light did not precisely meet the DOT approved reflector. How could his client possibly see you on the road with just a LD-1000 light and your entire bike covered in reflective tape?
You forgot the :rolleyes:

:)

[I-Like-To-Bike]

Maybe not the cops, but some defense lawyer may claim it is your fault his client hit you from behind because your reflector/reflective tape and light did not precisely meet the DOT approved reflector.
Now that HH is ignoring us, angel counters (i.e. on the head of a pin) in need of a debate have come forward to imagine and debate the possibilities of what might happen no matter how unlikely if a lawyer prepared a defense while on angel dust.

[ItsJustMe]

I use a standard 1.5 x 4 inch DOT rated red truck reflector in the back. That's to start with. Then I add stuff; reflective tape, a strobe, an LD1000.

[I-Like-To-Bike]

I use a standard 1.5 x 4 inch DOT rated red truck reflector in the back. That's to start with. Then I add stuff; reflective tape, a strobe, an LD1000.
To continue in the spirit of the angel dancers: But, WHAT IF a motorist's lawyer claims that your reckless, non agency approved use of bright lights and reflectors blinded/dazzled/confused him causing an accident? :eek: Better start losing sleep over it starting right now!

[sbhikes]

Don't they require bike-shop bikes to be sold with reflectors? If so, just get one of those and you'll have the one that meets the requirements.

[slvoid]

BTW if you're REALLY worried about lawyers and stuff, run a rear light with a real light bulb in it. It'll remove any excuse the driver has of you not having any lights if you get hit. The filament has a different pattern of breakage when looked at under an electron microscope depending on whether it breaks when cold or hot. You can get rid of one point of argument right there.

[mechBgon]

mechBgone [sic] might not agree that only one active light is sufficient, especially if just an LD-1000. ;)Hey, I like redundancy, ok? ;) I'll spare you the litany of reasons :D

Regarding the legal question, it seems to me that a DOT reflex reflector (like the one in the attached pic) is a safe bet.

1) It's the type of reflector that people recognize as "a reflector" on sight, so you wouldn't have to quibble that the red tape stuck to your fender is really a DOT-approved reflector. And ooOOooo, look how big it is! :) (said the jurors, thinking of their lil' CPSC bike reflectors)

2) It'll say it's a DOT reflector, molded right into the plastic. Well, there you have it, then. :beer:

3) Because it's relatively big, and designed to show well from a direct-rear view, it's going to show well in "field testing" if it were to come down to that. Just keep it clean, unobstructed, and facing straight to the rear, not angled up/down/sideways so it functions as designed (severe entry angles inhibit reflection, see this pic (http://freepages.thesecretlabs.com/~mechbgon/cue_sheet.gif) for an example of reflex reflectors not showing well from an angle).


I think your rear-visibility setup is pretty ironclad, noisebeam, because you have some of everything... a CPSC wide-angle reflector in the smaller Cateye taillight (LD500 or LD500-II, correct?), a DOT reflector, DOT reflective tape, and a high-powered blinkie. The one thing that you might want to do, is put a DOT reflector on the bike, since it could be argued that it's supposed to be actually attached to the bike (not to you). That makes it possible to field-test it without you being there on the bike (say you were injured), and it ensures that it's not mounted at an angle.

Anyway, it sounds pretty visible :) You should put the bike about 100 feet ahead of your car with its low-beams on, set your camera on the bumper, and shoot a no-flash photo of it from the rear so we can check it out! :)

[CB HI]

Don't they require bike-shop bikes to be sold with reflectors? If so, just get one of those and you'll have the one that meets the requirements.
Not always true. Hawaii requires a 4 square inch rear red reflector. CPSC rear reflectors are not that large.

[Michel Gagnon]

I'm not a lawyer, but if you want to pull hairs:

– reflective tape is not a reflector, therefore would not satisfy the legal requirement in places where they ask for "a reflector";

– if they ask for "a red reflector on the rear of a type that is approved by the department and that is visible from all distances from fifty feet to three hundred feet to the rear when the reflector is directly in front of lawful upper beams of head lamps on a motor vehicle", then an SAE reflector is "approved" and has more chances of being visible at 300 ft than a CPSC reflector.