Bikeforums.net is a forum about nothing but bikes. Our community can help you find information about hard-to-find and localized information like bicycle tours, specialties like where in your area to have your recumbent bike serviced, or what are the best bicycle tires and seats for the activities you use your bike for.ZackJones
04-01-03, 02:28 PM
Greetings,
In the Loose Headset thread I mentioned that I wrote to Chris King asking about a headset for my K2. They don't make one. The response from the guy was quite thorough and I thought I'd share it with the rest of you folks.
Zack
My email
Greetings,
I have an '03 K2 Mach 2.0 which comes with a "Ritchey Logic Comp integrated zero-stack". I have had trouble with the headset and took the bike to the shop today and told them to put a new Chris King headset in it. They called me back and said that the headsets were frame specific and they didn't have one for the K2 frame.
Are these guys right? (I hope not).
To see the specs of my bike surf to:
http://www.k2bikes.com/03products/road/mach_2.asp
There's a link at the bottom of that page that shows the
specifications for the bike, frame and fork.
Their reply
The Perdido Headset is an internal headset type that is very similar to the standard headset that we've all used over the years, other than the fact that the whole assembly fits neatly inside the frame's head tube. The bearings are pressed into cups and the cups are pressed into the frame. Just like a normal headset. "Integrated" headsets use bearings that are not securely pressed into the frame, they are held in place by the headset adjustment alone. King Cycle Group considers this imprecise and shoddy design to be extremely bad engineering work. As an alternative to the "integrated" headset, we introduced Perdido.
A standard (the Perdido Standard) is associated with the Perdido Headset because specific frame dimensions are required for the headset to function properly. A frame that is built to these specification is deemed "Perdido Compatible". The Perdido Standard is free to anyone who wishes to look at it or use it to make frames or headsets, there is no licensing agreement. Anyone using the Perdido Standard to build their bicycle components should label their component "Perdido Compatible".
Some frames built to accept the Cane Creek "Zero-Stack" headset (not the
IS-6) can be modified to accept a Perdido Headset. In these specific cases, the head tube can be reamed to the correct depth and bore diameter to accept a Perdido Headset. You must check with your frame manufacturer before converting your bike over to Perdido. King Cycle Group accepts no responsibility for any damages that occur as a result of any frame modifications. Work with your frame builder.
Frames designed to accept the Cane Creek IS-6 or the Campagnolo Hiddenset are considered "Integrated Headset" frames and cannot be modified to accept the Perdido Headset. We are sorry to say it, but if you buy a bike that uses either of these headset styles, you won't be installing a King Headset.
We feel so strongly about how bad a design the whole "integrated" thing is that we simply refuse to make parts that validate its existence and prolong its survival. We are actively campaigning against integrated headsets in the bike industry because we feel that it ultimately harms the customer and the bike shop. The frame will eventually be rendered unusable and unfixable due to the nature of how the "integrated" headset beats against the head tube. Plus, it builds a heavier bike that is at least twice as likely to have a creaky headset.
Our advice is to avoid any frame that is built to accept the Cane Creek IS-6, the Campagnolo Hiddenset, the Columbus Headset, Schwinn's ICBM, or any other "integrated" headset. The Conventional Headset that we've all been using for many years is very, very difficult to beat. It is lighter and stronger and more durable than anything that any integrated headset can offer. Perdido is an option, but the standard, plain old headset is still the very best option at this point.
Hope that answers your question
Matt O'Rourke
VP/Engineering Manager
King Cycle Group
Hopefully the guys at the shop will get the new headset installed and all will be well. If not I'm going to ask them to take the bike back and give me full credit for it. In return I'll buy the Raleigh SuperCorse they have on the showroom floor.
Zack
In the Loose Headset thread I mentioned that I wrote to Chris King asking about a headset for my K2. They don't make one. The response from the guy was quite thorough and I thought I'd share it with the rest of you folks.
Zack
My email
Greetings,
I have an '03 K2 Mach 2.0 which comes with a "Ritchey Logic Comp integrated zero-stack". I have had trouble with the headset and took the bike to the shop today and told them to put a new Chris King headset in it. They called me back and said that the headsets were frame specific and they didn't have one for the K2 frame.
Are these guys right? (I hope not).
To see the specs of my bike surf to:
http://www.k2bikes.com/03products/road/mach_2.asp
There's a link at the bottom of that page that shows the
specifications for the bike, frame and fork.
Their reply
The Perdido Headset is an internal headset type that is very similar to the standard headset that we've all used over the years, other than the fact that the whole assembly fits neatly inside the frame's head tube. The bearings are pressed into cups and the cups are pressed into the frame. Just like a normal headset. "Integrated" headsets use bearings that are not securely pressed into the frame, they are held in place by the headset adjustment alone. King Cycle Group considers this imprecise and shoddy design to be extremely bad engineering work. As an alternative to the "integrated" headset, we introduced Perdido.
A standard (the Perdido Standard) is associated with the Perdido Headset because specific frame dimensions are required for the headset to function properly. A frame that is built to these specification is deemed "Perdido Compatible". The Perdido Standard is free to anyone who wishes to look at it or use it to make frames or headsets, there is no licensing agreement. Anyone using the Perdido Standard to build their bicycle components should label their component "Perdido Compatible".
Some frames built to accept the Cane Creek "Zero-Stack" headset (not the
IS-6) can be modified to accept a Perdido Headset. In these specific cases, the head tube can be reamed to the correct depth and bore diameter to accept a Perdido Headset. You must check with your frame manufacturer before converting your bike over to Perdido. King Cycle Group accepts no responsibility for any damages that occur as a result of any frame modifications. Work with your frame builder.
Frames designed to accept the Cane Creek IS-6 or the Campagnolo Hiddenset are considered "Integrated Headset" frames and cannot be modified to accept the Perdido Headset. We are sorry to say it, but if you buy a bike that uses either of these headset styles, you won't be installing a King Headset.
We feel so strongly about how bad a design the whole "integrated" thing is that we simply refuse to make parts that validate its existence and prolong its survival. We are actively campaigning against integrated headsets in the bike industry because we feel that it ultimately harms the customer and the bike shop. The frame will eventually be rendered unusable and unfixable due to the nature of how the "integrated" headset beats against the head tube. Plus, it builds a heavier bike that is at least twice as likely to have a creaky headset.
Our advice is to avoid any frame that is built to accept the Cane Creek IS-6, the Campagnolo Hiddenset, the Columbus Headset, Schwinn's ICBM, or any other "integrated" headset. The Conventional Headset that we've all been using for many years is very, very difficult to beat. It is lighter and stronger and more durable than anything that any integrated headset can offer. Perdido is an option, but the standard, plain old headset is still the very best option at this point.
Hope that answers your question
Matt O'Rourke
VP/Engineering Manager
King Cycle Group
Hopefully the guys at the shop will get the new headset installed and all will be well. If not I'm going to ask them to take the bike back and give me full credit for it. In return I'll buy the Raleigh SuperCorse they have on the showroom floor.
Zack