Triathlon - Does anyone else think Stadler dopes?

Based on some of the things that some Kona officials have said, it seems probable. The #2, 3, & 4 guys basically did a pace line on the bike but he kept pulling away from them (even after mile 70 or so). They didn't call the guys for drafting because they weren't catching him.

It just seems a bit like the performance that Nina Kraft turned in in 2004...same coach by the way. It's just a bit fishy.

Same coach? Oh dear, i really hope he doesn't though. I'd hate to see triathlon, and in particular the Ironman series, go the same way as proffessional cycling. I guess i'm just naive, but i like to think doping is in the minority in this sport still.

There are always going to be cheaters. It would be shameful if he cheated. I stopped following biking after the Tyler Hamilton incident. I have decided not to follow triathlon as much as I did biking, because I didn't want to be so disappointed when the people I loved were found to be cheaters. I watch the Ironman specials on Versus, but I don't really care who wins or not.

I don't follow any of the pros, but the cynic in me says why should triathlon be different than any other sport? Which is to say, hell yeah there are cheaters at that level.

the cynic in me says why should triathlon be different than any other sport?

my inner cynic says the same thing to me

Based on some of the things that some Kona officials have said, it seems probable. The #2, 3, & 4 guys basically did a pace line on the bike but he kept pulling away from them (even after mile 70 or so). They didn't call the guys for drafting because they weren't catching him.

It just seems a bit like the performance that Nina Kraft turned in in 2004...same coach by the way. It's just a bit fishy.


even if they weren't catching him, they'd be called for drafting if they were drafting.
Pros have different rules than AGers, they have to ride in a stagger, which can look like drafting, but in fact, it's not.

What really sucks is a guy can win and people start asking if he is a cheat. I guess I am more of an optimist in sports cases....I think the persuit of doping has clouded the sport more so than the dopers themselves....enough people are caught on a regular basis to satisfy me that people are not getting away with it as much.

BUT just because he is a great biker doesn't make me think he is doping....Inside Triathlon December issue has a great article about why he crushed everyone on the bike. I like to think it was the Kuota bike he rides.... :)

Or maybe because he trains best some of the best pro cyclists in the world.

He has been tested extensively, so if he is, it' something they are not catching...

The incentive to dope in professional triathlon would be at least as great as in cycling, if not greater. In Bicycle racing while pure aerobic ability is important, the strongest rider doesn't always win, and superior fitness can be overcome with tactics, teamwork and luck at least to some degree.

In triathlon the strongest athlete is almost always going to win, so even a marginal advantage is outcome determinative, thus creating a huge incentive to cheat, if you believe the odds of detection are reasonably low.

Thus, I believe its naive to believe the doping problem in cycling, has not or at least will not permeate professional triathlon.

The other difference might be less money involved, but unfortunately doping occurs in cycling and other sports at levels where not much money is on the line.

The incentive to dope in professional triathlon would be at least as great as in cycling, if not greater. In Bicycle racing while pure aerobic ability is important, the strongest rider doesn't always win, and superior fitness can be overcome with tactics, teamwork and luck at least to some degree.

In triathlon the strongest athlete is almost always going to win, so even a marginal advantage is outcome determinative, thus creating a huge incentive to cheat, if you believe the odds of detection are reasonably low.

Thus, I believe its naive to believe the doping problem in cycling, has not or at least will not permeate professional triathlon.

The other difference might be less money involved, but unfortunately doping occurs in cycling and other sports at levels where not much money is on the line.

Once again Merlin, you're right on the money. The incentive to dope in the pro tri ranks would certainly be greater.

Man it must really suck being one of the top guys out there.

Norman Stadler pulled off a great race. His swimming was stronger this year, his biking great like usual, and run still average (by pro standards). And of course he must be on drugs?!

There are cheaters and they sooner or later get found out. If not, well their cheating themselves. But we really have to take the attitude "innocent till proven guilty" or these great performances get tarnished by bull**** rumours.

The guy is fast because while you sleep in - he knocks out 6k in the pool
While you are at work or whatever - he does 5-6 hours riding with a pro cycling team
While you watch T.V - He's out running for an hour
While you eat pies and other crap food - He's eating some strictly dieted dinner and stretching straight after.

Norman Stadler had a great race cause he could train all day, has either more biking talent, or just trains harder than anyone else racing Kona, and was obsessed enough with winning to give him a solid edge over the rest of the pro's.

Mark

While you are at work or whatever - he does 5-6 hours riding with a pro cycling team

Does he follow the same strict doping regimen as the pro cycling team he trains with?

[QUOTE=merlinextraligh]The incentive to dope in professional triathlon would be at least as great as in cycling, if not greater. In Bicycle racing while pure aerobic ability is important, the strongest rider doesn't always win, and superior fitness can be overcome with tactics, teamwork and luck at least to some degree.
QUOTE]


The incentive Ironman, or triathlon for that matter, lacks is $$$$. There is more money to be had in cycling and therefore I would guess more doping. I'm not trying to say either is at all clean but I don't think triathlon is to the same level as cycling.

Also all that money in cycling goes into good doctors.

I like watching athletes that dope...it really makes the event so much more exciting and super human

Does he follow the same strict doping regimen as the pro cycling team he trains with?

Hahaha, that was a good one. :D. I think he was training with Jan Ullrich too :eek: .

Innocent unless proven guilty though.

Brock

This is why I never understand why people like to say "cheaters ony hurt themselves". When you can't win without being under suspicion, you've been hurt by cheating.

Man it must really suck being one of the top guys out there.

Norman Stadler pulled off a great race. His swimming was stronger this year, his biking great like usual, and run still average (by pro standards). And of course he must be on drugs?!

There are cheaters and they sooner or later get found out. If not, well their cheating themselves. But we really have to take the attitude "innocent till proven guilty" or these great performances get tarnished by bull**** rumours.

The guy is fast because while you sleep in - he knocks out 6k in the pool
While you are at work or whatever - he does 5-6 hours riding with a pro cycling team
While you watch T.V - He's out running for an hour
While you eat pies and other crap food - He's eating some strictly dieted dinner and stretching straight after.

Norman Stadler had a great race cause he could train all day, has either more biking talent, or just trains harder than anyone else racing Kona, and was obsessed enough with winning to give him a solid edge over the rest of the pro's.

Mark

funny- that is almost Floyd Landis' defense... verbatim. with training data to boot.

sorry- but EVERY pro is doing what you describe above. to compare his life to anyone who's not paid to race is moot.

The incentive to dope in professional triathlon would be at least as great as in cycling, if not greater. In Bicycle racing while pure aerobic ability is important, the strongest rider doesn't always win, and superior fitness can be overcome with tactics, teamwork and luck at least to some degree.

In triathlon the strongest athlete is almost always going to win, so even a marginal advantage is outcome determinative, thus creating a huge incentive to cheat, if you believe the odds of detection are reasonably low.

Thus, I believe its naive to believe the doping problem in cycling, has not or at least will not permeate professional triathlon.

The other difference might be less money involved, but unfortunately doping occurs in cycling and other sports at levels where not much money is on the line.

Different substances can produce different results, including causing accelerated muscle growth, incresing red blood cell count and therefore oxygen being carried to tissues, metabolic rate increases that boost enegry production in the cells...
Point is, there's a drug for every athlete out there. I don't even know how to tell what is a performance enhancing drug and a dietary supplement anymore.

Different substances can produce different results, including causing accelerated muscle growth, incresing red blood cell count and therefore oxygen being carried to tissues, metabolic rate increases that boost enegry production in the cells...
Point is, there's a drug for every athlete out there. I don't even know how to tell what is a performance enhancing drug and a dietary supplement anymore.


Not that I've ever looked into these...If I pass you up, it's because of superior training.:rolleyes:

funny- that is almost Floyd Landis' defense... verbatim. with training data to boot.

sorry- but EVERY pro is doing what you describe above. to compare his life to anyone who's not paid to race is moot.


No that's far from the truth. You'd be surprised just how little the majority of pro's actually do. Quite a few do no more, or only a little more than the average joe. I'm friends with several sub 9 ironman guys, and all they seem to do is get out of swimming early and eat KFC. Off topic a bit, but the worst case I saw was when a swimming friend of mine didn't go near a pool for 2 years and came back and swum a sub 16 1500m freestyle with a month training, it gets your blood boiling.

Not saying they dont train hard, and do alot of mileage from time to time, but doing all the training required to race at a competitive level at Kona, and eating healthy etc. at the same time, is a very very difficult thing to do over a long period of time.

I don't want to discount your argument however, I listened to Bryan Rhodes on some podcast thing the other day, he was not naming names, but stated doping in triathlon is definatley happening, in particular with the European athletes.

Cheers,

Mark

but the worst case I saw was when a swimming friend of mine didn't go near a pool for 2 years and came back and swum a sub 16 1500m freestyle with a month training, it gets your blood boiling.

You saw him do this? That's an olympic level 1500m time. I don't believe it.

Yup saw it with my own eyes, it's sickening because it was long course too.

It was not quite olypmic standard, you need to go sub 15.30 in our country to qualify, but was still a time that put him in the top 5 in the country at the time.

That said when you look at his family...

His mum was an olympic 200m freestyler
His brothers - One can go sub 30sec 50m breastroke, and the other a sub 4.30 400m IM.

Although he had a few years off, he still had done alot of high level swimming in his younger days, and had developed a very good technique.

It's pretty safe to say that he's got swimming talent to burn. But the point is, that guys with a natural ability in their sports don't need to do nearly as much training to get to a level well beyond someone with less ability.

There are three types of triathletes I think. Some will train just like any other age grouper and find they still just kick ass (i.e the lucky talented ass-whipes). There is the athlete that works their ass off to catch up to the gifted athlete (I believe eventually this athlete will always beat the talented athlete). Then there's the Norman Stadlers and Cameron Brown's that have both and are just really really hard to beat.

Mark.