View Full Version : right hooks (almosts...)
with a little p/off venting, (thx bf), i am listing 3 (three) events w/in the past 2 (two) days of commute
yesterday, a driver cut me off by passing, then turning in front of me to her drive-way. i hit her car with my right fist (she appeared shocked) as my airzound "no" zounded. it needed refilling. event has passed...
today, on an another extended return home commute, i was right-hooked twice (no contact). airzound reloaded was more volume than driver's horn as he cut in front...
the second hook was stopped, it appears, by my LOAD "Yoh!". passenger looked at me, appeared shocked.
what's going on? this behavior is (was) limited in event here in s nj. will keep posted.
tomg
eegretCL
11-01-06, 07:15 AM
I have no idea what you just said.
noisebeam
11-01-06, 07:31 AM
Ride further left.
Al
Ride further left.
Al
That sometimes helps, Al, but not always. I have been dead-center in my lane and right-hooked from the next lane over, even if it is for oncoming traffic.
LittleBigMan
11-01-06, 08:11 AM
I have no idea what you just said.
"Yo!"
That means, "Hey, watch where you're going, are you trying to kill me or something?!" But that takes too long to say.
Shiznaz
11-01-06, 08:48 AM
I have no idea what you just said.
I thought it was pretty self-explanitory... Try actually reading the OP next time rather than just staring at the words.
Right hooks are just unexpected adventures! They are the reason I don't need to go to Pamplona to run with the bulls. Last week I was riding along a bike path with parking on the right, and stopped traffic on the left (I KNOW! Crucify me! I should have been waiting behind the cars sucking fumes like a... sucker!) All of a sudden a stopped car JAMS on the accellerator to turn right without signalling or warning, cutting off any escape route so I have to dive in between parked cars and hop onto the curb and back down after I pass the car and slam its hood with my fist. It was a couple of dusty geriatrics driving it who didn't have a clue what they did. I lived.
kjmillig
11-01-06, 10:13 AM
Electric 12v car horn on my front end at 120 decibles usually gets their attention.
That sometimes helps, Al, but not always. I have been dead-center in my lane and right-hooked from the next lane over, even if it is for oncoming traffic.
yeah I tried to make that point with HH once, and it was like talking to a wall... he kept insisting that I must have made some mistake... He even questioned why I stopped at the red light... for a right on red. Amazing.
I was in the right lane and making a right turn with a ROTL, I signaled and was properly destination positioned in the middle of the lane.
A right hook was attempted from the center straight only lane. I yelled loud enough to stop the motorist who would have completed the turn right into me. The motorist had come down the road behind me and then split off to the center when I moved right.
It's not always enough to simply be positioned correctly, or be over far enough to the left... some motorists just simply do not care, and will do nearly anything to avoid being behind you, no matter how much sense it makes, or what the law is.
sbhikes
11-01-06, 10:56 AM
Motorists need to be taught how to drive in a world where bicycles exist. They can't figure us out from our lane positions, from roadway markings, from anything really. They need better education.
noisebeam
11-01-06, 10:57 AM
yeah I tried to make that point with HH once, and it was like talking to a wall... he kept insisting that I must have made some mistake... He even questioned why I stopped at the red light... for a right on red. Amazing.
I was in the right lane and making a right turn with a ROTL, I signaled and was properly destination positioned in the middle of the lane.
A right hook was attempted from the center straight only lane. I yelled loud enough to stop the motorist who would have completed the turn right into me. The motorist had come down the road behind me and then split off to the center when I moved right.
It's not always enough to simply be positioned correctly, or be over far enough to the left... some motorists just simply do not care, and will do nearly anything to avoid being behind you, no matter how much sense it makes, or what the law is.
Sure. But do you agree that the further left you are the less likely one is to be right hooked? Of course one can not prevent all right hooks, but can diminish them significantly by riding center lane position (or left side lane position in RTOL).
Riding center lane eliminates the 'not paying attention to cyclist to side' and 'not aware of cyclist speed' right hooks, but does not prevent the overly agressive 'gotta get around the cyclist I do see right hooks, even if it means changing my lane position' right hook, which while they can happen are much rarer than the former.
Al
Sure. But do you agree that the further left you are the less likely one is to be right hooked? Of course one can not prevent all right hooks, but can diminish them significantly by riding center lane position (or left side lane position in RTOL).
Riding center lane eliminates the 'not paying attention to cyclist to side' and 'not aware of cyclist speed' right hooks, but does not prevent the overly agressive 'gotta get around the cyclist I do see right hooks, even if it means changing my lane position' right hook, which while they can happen are much rarer than the former.
Al
Oh yeah, I do agree, in fact I always take ROTL either "centered" or left of center. I also tend to ride leftish in the BL and I leave the BL at any major intersections (not residential driveways usually... ), if there is no BL, I am in the right tire track or left of center. I really tend to avoid dead center as that is where the grease builds up and my former life as a motorcycle rider taught me to avoid that area.
In other words I am doing my part to be conspicuous and predictable... But some motorists do not play fair and chose to do things above and beyond reasonable for reasons that just baffle the imagination. (this is where I get to complain about not being "treated as the driver of a vehicle... ")
BTW it is not as if this happens daily... But every time something like this happens, it is one of those outragous head slappers where I say... "man I cannot EVEN believe that idiot did that... " totally unpredictable moves are just that, totally unpredictable.
noisebeam
11-01-06, 11:19 AM
Also one needs to distinguish between a right hook vs. a rude cut off.
(By pointing this out I am not implying that these are being confused in any of the above discussion, just pointing out a new twist to the discussion)
A right hook is when someone turns across your path/lane.
A rude cut off is when someone passes you pulls back into you lane and slows hard then turns.
Lane position can not help with the rude cut off. Lane position can significantly help reduce (But not 100% eliminate) the right hook.
The rude cut off happens to all drivers of all vehicle types - mostly to those who are moving at the speed limit or less and may or may not be illegal depending on how agressive and close the cut off was.
I only mention this as many cyclists complain about being cut off or slowed by turning vehicles. In many cases this is just normal traffic flow, the best course of action is to slow and pass on left.
Al
Also one needs to distinguish between a right hook vs. a rude cut off.
(By pointing this out I am not implying that these are being confused in any of the above discussion, just pointing out a new twist to the discussion)
A right hook is when someone turns across your path/lane.
A rude cut off is when someone passes you pulls back into you lane and slows hard then turns.
Lane position can not help with the rude cut off. Lane position can significantly help reduce (But not 100% eliminate) the right hook.
The rude cut off happens to all drivers of all vehicle types - mostly to those who are moving at the speed limit or less and may or may not be illegal depending on how agressive and close the cut off was.
I only mention this as many cyclists complain about being cut off or slowed by turning vehicles. In many cases this is just normal traffic flow, the best course of action is to slow and pass on left.
Al
Hear you loud and clear, but the biggest issue with rude cut offs is that often motorists don't have a clear idea of how fast you are really going, thus being "cut off" may turn into being clipped.
At any rate, it is still rude.
nick burns
11-01-06, 12:30 PM
"Yo!"
That means, "Hey, watch where you're going, are you trying to kill me or something?!" But that takes too long to say.
Yeah, in times of emergency, "yo" is about the only thing that my brain manages to push through my lips.
Right hooks do suck, but at least it seems like the more riding experience one acquires, the more likely it is to kind of see them coming. Or maybe more like hear them coming.
flipped4bikes
11-01-06, 01:49 PM
Yeah, in times of emergency, "yo" is about the only thing that my brain manages to push through my lips.
Every time I've used "YO!", it's worked pretty well. Anything else seems to bring out the road rage. I just bought an AirZound. Hopefully this adds more emphasis than yelling...
Shiznaz
11-01-06, 02:57 PM
My repertoir usually consists of "WATCH IT!" if I get any prior warning, "WHOAH!!!!" if I have very little warning, and "*CRRAAASHHHH!* ARRRGGHHHH!!!!!" if I get no warning at all.
I yell a very loud very abrupt "STOP" which is more barked than anything else.
It can get attention... under the right circumstances.
noisebeam
11-01-06, 03:09 PM
Except when riding in BL as an experiment to see if I would get right hooked past intersections, I have never been right hooked from a vehicle that was in outside lane*. In my BL experiment which lasted 5 days of riding the same 2mi stretch left biased in BL, but not in primary lane as I usually do, past numerous commercial driveways and sidestreet that did not have a RTOL, I was 'near' right hooked ~8 times.
*One time I was right hooked by a driver in the inside lane when was in the outer narrow lane going ~30mph.
Al
I yell a very loud very abrupt "STOP" which is more barked than anything else.
It can get attention... under the right circumstances.
Absolutely...I took Taekwondo years ago, and as part of our training we were taught how to yell in a way that "projects power". Done correctly (projecting the sound assertively from your belly button), it's very loud and will startle and/or disorient an opponent.
I used it a couple of weeks ago on a pickup truck that tried to pull out from a side street to my right as I was approaching at 20+ mph. It must have worked, because when I yelled "Hey!" at him he instantly stopped right in the middle of the intersection!
Wogsterca
11-02-06, 04:59 AM
Oh yeah, I do agree, in fact I always take ROTL either "centered" or left of center. I also tend to ride leftish in the BL and I leave the BL at any major intersections (not residential driveways usually... ), if there is no BL, I am in the right tire track or left of center. I really tend to avoid dead center as that is where the grease builds up and my former life as a motorcycle rider taught me to avoid that area.
In other words I am doing my part to be conspicuous and predictable... But some motorists do not play fair and chose to do things above and beyond reasonable for reasons that just baffle the imagination. (this is where I get to complain about not being "treated as the driver of a vehicle... ")
BTW it is not as if this happens daily... But every time something like this happens, it is one of those outragous head slappers where I say... "man I cannot EVEN believe that idiot did that... " totally unpredictable moves are just that, totally unpredictable.
I have seen car drivers right hook each other, so maybe they ARE treating you as a driver of a vehicle, it's just that drivers no longer beleive in politeness, courtesy or respect, it's sad really.
Here is one for Ripleys, guy is in left turn lane, has a red light, all of a sudden he turns right, into traffic. Yes a right turn from the left turn lane, that made me wonder, within 5 minutes, I saw the same stunt pulled again. You could say he right hooked three lanes of traffic, but they were waiting on the light anyway.....
Bekologist
11-02-06, 06:51 AM
Sure. ...
Riding center lane eliminates the 'not paying attention to cyclist to side' and 'not aware of cyclist speed' right hooks, but does not prevent the overly agressive 'gotta get around the cyclist I do see right hooks, even if it means changing my lane position' right hook, which while they can happen are much rarer than the former.
Al
Al, while your exeriences of less cutoffs by impatient drivers, I find most of my cutoffs and right hooks are from impatient, aggressive 'got to get around the bicyclist' type of drivers.
Yesterday on my commute, i was riding thru an intersection towards a nother stop less than 100 feet, that pours onto a highway speed bridge mergeway. I was first to my stop, pulled thru and was using the full lane for that last 100 feet until the stop sign right at the bridge mergeway.
A driver that got to the T AFTER me, HAS to pull next to me, across the double yellow in that short 100 feet and attempt to force me out of the lane. I had to hammer on his window.
He was definetly trying to
a) squeeze past me in an incredibly short stretch of road and
b) was trying to squeeze me manevolently into the curb.
I get the 'right hook of impatience and annoyance' more than I get the 'didn't see him' right hook.
Misguaging a cyclists speed can be a contributing factor in crossing and hooking accidents, but i think the differences between a 'right hook' and a 'rude cutoff' are marginal.
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