Singlespeed & Fixed Gear - cracking steel frames

For those of you out there riding steel frames, particularly old conversions....how much life do you expect to get outta your frame? I'm just wondering, because I've cracked every steel frame I've ever owned. Most of these have been steel BMX frames, but recently I cracked my Bianchi fixed gear conversion frame after about 2000 miles. The BB shell developed an inch-long crack. Now I'm using an old Motobecane frame (a real one, not the new fake Motobecane USA). I like these old road frames because they take fenders and big tires and such and most of my fixed gear riding is commuting. I'm guessing that a lot of these older frames just aren't built to withstand the abuse that they get with a fixed gear. If my Motobecane cracks, I'm gonna just get a legitimate track frame.

are you sure they arent just paint cracks

I thought you wanted to know about cracking good steel frames.
http://www.silkweaver.com/showcase/s01.jpg

If you have had this many steel frames fail, something is wrong. Check for rust and stop crashing them.

I thought you wanted to know about cracking good steel frames.
http://www.silkweaver.com/showcase/s01.jpg

If you have had this many steel frames fail, something is wrong. Check for rust and stop crashing them.


SOrry...somehow I stated this thread twice.
I'm not crashing and they are not rusting. Like I said, most of my cracked frames have been BMX bikes...and I really abused these frames...BMX style abuse. As for the Bianchi...it has no rust and its not a paint crack.

SOrry...somehow I stated this thread twice.
I'm not crashing and they are not rusting. Like I said, most of my cracked frames have been BMX bikes...and I really abused these frames...BMX style abuse. As for the Bianchi...it has no rust and its not a paint crack.

So don't abuse them, and they won't break. Make sense? Track frames are built slightly beefier than road frames in order to withstand high speed crashes common on the velodrome. But that "beefiness" is hardly enough to warrant BMX style abuse. These are elegant machines designed for one thing: speed, not bunnyhops.

No...please read my post again. I've severely abused BMX frames, as they should be. But, I haven't abused my Bianchi conversion road frame any more than you would expect from hard road riding.

Define "hard road riding"

you know, when it gets hard and you start riding vigourously and you get this sensation...

Hrm, what can I say, maybe you've just had some bad luck? There are guys in the Classics/Vintage forum who ride 50 and 60 year old steel frames for thousands of miles and the frames are fine. My Ciocc is well over 20 years and I ride it hard all the time, do you hit a lot of things?

Define "hard road riding"

fast...pedaling hard..mashing up hills in a big gear...an occasional pothole.

Hrm, what can I say, maybe you've just had some bad luck? There are guys in the Classics/Vintage forum who ride 50 and 60 year old steel frames for thousands of miles and the frames are fine. My Ciocc is well over 20 years and I ride it hard all the time, do you hit a lot of things?


Yes but the vast majority of 50-60yo bikes have already bitten the dust. It is completely possible that a bike will last that long but if it is frequently ridden it is pretty unlikely. Newer stiffer alloys and thinner tube walls continuously make it less likely.

fast...pedaling hard..mashing up hills in a big gear...an occasional pothole.

I would say you have really bad luck then.

These are elegant machines designed for one thing: speed, not bunnyhops.

are they? I bunny hop and stuff all the time '87 frame, 6 years hard riding in my hands...before me, don't even know.

no probs yet...only a couple top tube dings

take care of your ride (and your wheels) and it will take care of you

recently I cracked my Bianchi fixed gear conversion frame after about 2000 miles. The BB shell developed an inch-long crack. Now I'm using an old Motobecane frame (a real one, not the new fake Motobecane USA).

I'm guessing that a lot of these older frames just aren't built to withstand the abuse that they get with a fixed gear.

The BB shell should not have cracked unless there was something wrong with the frame to begin with. How many miles did the frame have before you converted it? You should check with Bianchi, if you're lucky they may do something for you.

I don't see how riding fixed is inherently more abusive than any other type of riding. My dad does loaded mountainous touring in all weather conditions on a 1978 steel frame with tens of thousands of miles on it. And it's not particularly high end steel. Either you're mistreating your bikes or you've had bad luck getting frames with inherent structural problems.

I don't see how riding fixed is inherently more abusive than any other type of riding.

riding any ss bike will put alot more stress on the frame as you mash alot more. Fg can put even more stress if you are into skidding.

riding any ss bike will put a lot more stress on the frame as you mash alot more. Fg can put even more stress if you are into skidding.

I do see what you're saying, dutret, but - just to play devil's advocate - there are many ways to stress a frame. A lot more than what? Racing? Commuting? Loaded mountainous touring? Please qualify. We don't even know what his gear ratio was.

What I was saying to the OP is that under ordinary conditions, a decently made steel frame shouldn't crack. His cracked after 2000 miles. Good steel? Ehh... hard to believe it wasn't a preexisting structural problem in the BB area that revealed itself via the added stress of riding fixed. I put tons of miles on my fixed gear bike, which is a total gaspipe beater Paris Sport that had lord knows how many miles on it when I converted it, and with a little TLC have had no problems, commuting every day in NYC, mashing up the hills of VA where I'm working right now, etc.

Steel... my old Puch's frame bent after going over a huge pothole at night... so badly the front wheel was almost touching the down tube - it was the classic warping by where the top tube and down tube meet the head tube. Still rode it all over till it was stolen. Only problem was bad toeverlap, otherwise it rode fine. Granted that bike didn't have the added stress that a fixed gear will cause (due to the mashing you mention), but it nevertheless had years of hard all-weather riding on it.

are they? I bunny hop and stuff all the time '87 frame, 6 years hard riding in my hands...before me, don't even know.

Are they? Uh, what do you think? You can use your bike for whatever you want, obviously. I would think that when a builder is putting the finishing touches on their latest road frame they're not taking into consideration people jumping off of curbs. I mean, dude, seriously, c'mon. That's not even an argument.

Are they? Uh, what do you think? You can use your bike for whatever you want, obviously. I would think that when a builder is putting the finishing touches on their latest road frame they're not taking into consideration people jumping off of curbs. I mean, dude, seriously, c'mon. That's not even an argument.

any latest road frame, whether made for racing or whatever, should be made by the builder with the intention of taking abuse...

in bicycle races, people crash, ride over cobblestone roads at high speeds, veer offroad (lance a couple years ago), hit potholes, etc..

this type of stuff puts way more pressure than bunnyhoping (a relatively low impact activity)

dude, seriously, c'mon.... not even an argument? think about it

in bicycle races, people crash, ride over cobblestone roads at high speeds, veer offroad (lance a couple years ago), hit potholes, etc..

Yes, those things certainly do happen. And do you think Mr. Armstrong gets back on the crashed bike the next day? My guess is no. Of course bikes are built to withstand the elements of the road. Intentionally putting unnecessary stress on a frame is just well, stupid. When you ride do you not lift your ass up off the seat when you hit a pothole? Do you not swerve out of the way of a big sewer grate? Do you attempt to lighten the load when rolling of train tracks or whatever? I know I do. Those would obviously be stressful to the frames integrity and the wheels had you just kept your fat ass on the seat. Sure it can withstand it, but what is the point in potentially damaging it? What is the point of putting undo stress on your frame whether it is from bunnyhopping or riding "heavy" on abused roadways? Take your own advice and take care of your ****. Stress is stress, anyway you slice it. I chose to avoid it if I have the option. I would suspect builders assume their customers would want to take care of their frames as well.

The BB shell should not have cracked unless there was something wrong with the frame to begin with. How many miles did the frame have before you converted it? You should check with Bianchi, if you're lucky they may do something for you.


Heh!...that frame was from 1985 and I seriously doubt Bianchi would do anything about it. I have no idea how many miles were put on it before I got it, but I put ~2000 miles on it. The paint is job was nearly pristine, so I'm guessing not very many miles were put on it before me.

Are they? Uh, what do you think? You can use your bike for whatever you want, obviously. I would think that when a builder is putting the finishing touches on their latest road frame they're not taking into consideration people jumping off of curbs. I mean, dude, seriously, c'mon. That's not even an argument.


Bunnyhopping, when done properly (absoring the shock with your limbs), is smooth and a helluva lot less stressful that plowing through a pothole with your ass in the saddle. Likewise, riding off a curb is nothing, unless you are locking your joints up when you land.

I do see what you're saying, dutret, but - just to play devil's advocate - there are many ways to stress a frame. A lot more than what? Racing? Commuting? Loaded mountainous touring? Please qualify. We don't even know what his gear ratio was.

What I was saying to the OP is that under ordinary conditions, a decently made steel frame shouldn't crack. His cracked after 2000 miles. Good steel? Ehh... hard to believe it wasn't a preexisting structural problem in the BB area that revealed itself via the added stress of riding fixed.

I was riding 76 gear inches for most of those 2000 miles. I'm guessing you are probably right about a structure problem in the BB shell revealing itself after being converted to a fixed gear. My commute is mostly uphill and I did a lot of mashing on that thing.
On the other hand, most of my BMX frames have cracked around the chainstays and at the headtube-downtube joint, but of course that was from years of jumping, wall-riding, and all sorts of slamming abuse..the kind of abuse that road frame never sees, which is why I was suprised when my Bianchi conversion cracked.

how much to you weigh?

how much to you weigh?

~207

Sounds like you need to learn how to ride smoother, or maybe you just got unlucky with this frame. The only frame I've ever destroyed was a cheap aluminum mtb that got twisted in a hard crash. My steel conversion is 20 years old this year, and has no problems. The kind of steel is important, too. There's a difference between hi-ten and 853, or even hi-ten and cromoly.

I was riding 76 gear inches for most of those 2000 miles. I'm guessing you are probably right about a structure problem in the BB shell revealing itself after being converted to a fixed gear. My commute is mostly uphill and I did a lot of mashing on that thing.
On the other hand, most of my BMX frames have cracked around the chainstays and at the headtube-downtube joint, but of course that was from years of jumping, wall-riding, and all sorts of slamming abuse..the kind of abuse that road frame never sees, which is why I was suprised when my Bianchi conversion cracked.

Yeah man, it sounds to me like you need to learn how to ride fixed. The whole point of fixed is NOT to be mashing... even up hill. Riding fixed is zen-like, it's continual smooth motion, it's learning to keep a steady cadence regardless of the road. It's about having the bicycle be an extension of your body. You're mashing? Really? I've done 1500 ft elevation climbs in the dark (new moon) on roads that are both under construction and covered in drift of the mountains after rain yet I still don't mash. (and your 76 gear inches are decent, but I'm running a 85 gear inches and don't mash, even up steep ass hills) And wait, you're in Long Island?? There are mountains there that you would mash on?? Really? I'm shocked. Dude, it isn't the frame, it's your riding style. Period.

If you are riding fixed you should learn the purposes of riding fixed and let it improve your overall riding ability. When you go from fixed to geared you'll notice a difference too and you won't mash. Professional cyclists train on fixed (whether conversions or tracks) something like 80% of the time they're on a bike. It trains their legs, body, and mentality into an efficient and high level of cadence... Then you see them don the geared speed machines climbing up the steeps of le Tour or sprinting to a finish - THEY DO NOT MASH!

Ugh. Mash your potatoes, not your bike.

(and your 76 gear inches are decent, but I'm running a 85 gear inches and don't mash, even up steep ass hills)

You're spinning up steep ass hills at 20mph? Who do you race for?

I didn't say I was going up hills at 20mph, but I'm not mashing either. Up hills the cadence is slower, but it is still steady... whether seated or not. I'd say going up the Griffith road climb I'm averaging about 10 depending on the grade...

and when I race, I race for my self or for the person that the benefits of the race are going towards (usually a fallen rider from psychotic drivers that can't handle bicyclists on the roads).

i posted before about cracking my early 80's steel track frame. through the lug at the head/downtube junction. i rode the bike for about 18 months almost daily for work and on weekends. i consider myself a pretty hard rider though. lots of skids, dropping curbs, a couple wipeouts on it, 4 or 5 races, rain, snow and sun. takes it's toll i'm sure.

right now i'm on aluminum. can't wait to get a new steel track frame.

I didn't say I was going up hills at 20mph, but I'm not mashing either. Up hills the cadence is slower, but it is still steady... whether seated or not. I'd say going up the Griffith road climb I'm averaging about 10 depending on the grade...

and when I race, I race for my self or for the person that the benefits of the race are going towards (usually a fallen rider from psychotic drivers that can't handle bicyclists on the roads).

40rpm = mashing.

no... mashing is pushing down hard on the pedals on the downstroke without a balanced pull on the upstroke.

if the motion is continual throughout the entire cycle and the cranks are getting an balanced amount of pressure throughout the stroke, you are riding as you should be on a fixed....

when the cycle of pressure exertion is unbalanced, the rider is mashing. this may put unnecessary pressure onto the frame, perhaps a cause for the cracks in the BB shell.

admittedly, learning to be continually smooth even on a steep hill isn't the easiest ****, but with a conscious effort, time, and practice it will eventually get smoother.

watch the folks racing at the velodrome - even at the very end when they're sprinting hard into the finish, they are not mashing. it's how your ride, folks. (track frame damages come from crashes or the opposing pull 'up' from the upper body on the handlebars... a frame pulled in two directions? that can cause stress. stress eventually leads to a cracked frame (if the handlebars don't go first!)

First you are wrong. Riding at 40rpms up a hill is mashing. That is just how mashing is defined in common usage.

Secondly, you simply can't put a smooth constant force on the pedals when doing that. Low rpm means more force on the pedals do to the same work. Your body is built to apply alot of force in some and not so much in others. That means that applying smooth force or even force to both pedals in these maximal force situations is impossible.

Third, Even if you could apply a constant even force to the pedals which you can't it would stress the frame just as much. Pulling up hard on one pedal and pushing down hard on the other bends the BB out of line just as much as pushing down hard on one pedal.

Finally, sprint finishes in a track race are probably the highest rpm spinning cyclists commonly do. They aren't mashing because they are in a low force high rpm situation as opposed to your high force low rpm one. Want to see mashing look at a standing start or the jump in a mash sprint.

OMG!!!!! Goddamn....my Motobecane frame is cracked too...on the seattube, right above the BB shell. I rode this frame for two months and it was in great conditin when I got it. The cranks felt loose this morning and when I inspectied it, I noticed the crack. It goes almost all the way around the tube. Thats it..I'm buying a new frame. No more of this vintage road conversion crap.

OMG!!!!! Goddamn....my Motobecane frame is cracked too...on the seattube, right above the BB shell.

unlike actually cracking the shell itself that is a really common place for frame failure.

Yeah man, it sounds to me like you need to learn how to ride fixed. The whole point of fixed is NOT to be mashing... even up hill. Riding fixed is zen-like, it's continual smooth motion, it's learning to keep a steady cadence regardless of the road. It's about having the bicycle be an extension of your body. You're mashing? Really? I've done 1500 ft elevation climbs in the dark (new moon) on roads that are both under construction and covered in drift of the mountains after rain yet I still don't mash. (and your 76 gear inches are decent, but I'm running a 85 gear inches and don't mash, even up steep ass hills) And wait, you're in Long Island?? There are mountains there that you would mash on?? Really? I'm shocked. Dude, it isn't the frame, it's your riding style. Period.

If you are riding fixed you should learn the purposes of riding fixed and let it improve your overall riding ability. When you go from fixed to geared you'll notice a difference too and you won't mash. Professional cyclists train on fixed (whether conversions or tracks) something like 80% of the time they're on a bike. It trains their legs, body, and mentality into an efficient and high level of cadence... Then you see them don the geared speed machines climbing up the steeps of le Tour or sprinting to a finish - THEY DO NOT MASH!

Ugh. Mash your potatoes, not your bike.

1) We have a little terminology issue. Most of us use "mashing" to mean climbing/accelerating out of the saddle. That can only be done while putting in an uneven drive force. That's just the way it is. Armstrong mashes up hills, too. (Well, he used to. Even despite his freakishly high cadence.)

2)You are a ******bag.

2)You are a ******bag.

Heheh, I just read his post at the top of this page and was thinking "This guy is nuts----he is making fixed riding out to be poetic and spiritual, what a ******" and here are my thoughts on the page but in another person's post. How poetic and spiritual.

poetic and spiritual is a-ok

This sort of bull****:
"You need to lear how to ride fixed" "I've done 1500 ft elevation climbs in on roads that are both under construction and covered in drift of the mountains after rain yet I still don't mash." "Dude, it isn't the frame, it's your riding style. Period." "If you are riding fixed you should learn the purposes of riding fixed" "And wait, you're in Long Island?? There are mountains there that you would mash on"

... can only come from a ******bag

Yeah, telling anyone how to ride their bike over the internet is a sure sign of ******baggery. Everyone is different and at least he is riding. I dunno how he has had so many cracked metal frames though, it is a bit weird.

poetic and spiritual is a-ok

This sort of bull****:
"You need to lear how to ride fixed" "I've done 1500 ft elevation climbs in on roads that are both under construction and covered in drift of the mountains after rain yet I still don't mash." "Dude, it isn't the frame, it's your riding style. Period." "If you are riding fixed you should learn the purposes of riding fixed" "And wait, you're in Long Island?? There are mountains there that you would mash on"

... can only come from a ******bag

I must have spaced out reading the original post. I thought you were paraphrasing to make him sound even more like a ******bag till i went back and read it again...

haha yeah... my rig with computer, clothes, lunch, etc is like 55lbs. to work is downhill, but home is uphill (steep) I can't imagine trying to stay in my saddle for some of those hills. I do try to even out my pushing with pulling/evening out my cadence... but jeez. that kind of boasting and dismissal is kind of over the top.

op: I haven't a clue what's up with your luck... I've been riding my old raleigh capri for 4 months now, but before that I had lots of different steel bikes (so many I probably ended up getting rid of them before they developed cracks) I did have a deraillur break clean in half on my MTB though... freakish manufacturing defect coming out after 15 years. Just goes to show that even high-end shimano stuff is prone too. Goes for anything.

poetic and spiritual is a-ok

This sort of bull****:
"You need to lear how to ride fixed" "I've done 1500 ft elevation climbs in on roads that are both under construction and covered in drift of the mountains after rain yet I still don't mash." "Dude, it isn't the frame, it's your riding style. Period." "If you are riding fixed you should learn the purposes of riding fixed" "And wait, you're in Long Island?? There are mountains there that you would mash on"

... can only come from a ******bag

Yeah, its I know its total bull****...I know how to ride fixed, and how to ride smoothly. Its not that I'm not riding smooth. I rarely even stand when I climb. Long Island has hills, but they are not mountains. I can get up them without any kind of extreme mashing. I take care of my bikes and I don't abuse them. I just have this tendancy to trash steel frames. I think I've just had back luck with steel and my two attempts to built a vintage conversion have just not worked out. This last one cracked after ~800 miles. MOst of those miles were with moderate hills with average speeds above 20mph. I'm starting to think that a lot of these older frames just aren't built for riding hard and fast. Either that, or they have had too many miles put on them to begin with. I have two other bikes with alumunim frames and both of these have stood up to thousands of miles without any damage.

man your scaring me...

i got an 80's paramount conversion and mash the ***** out of it on a daily basis and have been for almost a year now.

at 230, i feel it flexing around under me quite a bit on steep uphill efforts but so far the thing has held up like a champ.

a custom frame would allow you to beef it up in the proper spots for those beefcake legs you must be packin ;)

Custom steel for a conversion isn't the cheapest idea out there but maybe you can concentrate on getting something nice on your area's CL to convert. Look for something made out of Reynolds or Columbus tubing and when you go to check it out, check for rust and remove the seatpost and eyeball it for rust inside too.

riding any ss bike will put alot more stress on the frame as you mash alot more.

nonsense. certainly not above a bicycle's tolerance

2)You are a ******bag.
+1000 bags for douching
although maybe his last conquest in the bedroom needed a good douching and hence why he is so angry.

nonsense. certainly not above a bicycle's tolerance

Bending the bb out of line put's alot of stress near the bb/st juncture. That so many frames fail here is evidence that this is above the frame's tolerance. SS has you both mash more and mash much harder then you ever would on a geared bike. The frequency and magnitude of the stress is therefore greater and the frame will fatigue faster and crack sooner.

SS has you both mash more and mash much harder then you ever would on a geared bike. The frequency and magnitude of the stress is therefore greater and the frame will fatigue faster and crack sooner.
I dunno... I really think that's a lot more dependent on rider skill and shifting philosophy (some people like to mash) than drivetrain. A road frame should be able to hold up to consistent mashing, just like an XC mountain frame should be able to hold up to a 2' drop. It's not the intended use, but it's well within the bounds of expectations.

I dunno... I really think that's a lot more dependent on rider skill and shifting philosophy (some people like to mash) than drivetrain. A road frame should be able to hold up to consistent mashing, just like an XC mountain frame should be able to hold up to a 2' drop. It's not the intended use, but it's well within the bounds of expectations.

While some people may mash more then others on a geared bike they still mash less then they do on a ss. I mean everyone shifts sometimes and you rarely see people on road bikes pulling on the bars as hard as they can while pushing and pulling with with their feet.

I agree that a road frame should be able to hold up to mashing for a while just as an (non-race)xc frame should be able to hold up to 2' even 3' drops for a while. In the end all frames bite the dust though and the more stress you put on them the sooner it's going to happen. A frame that was strudy enough to take me mashing on it or take 3' drops without fatiguing would be so heavy that I would choose the moderately durable frame over it anyway. If I can only expect to get a few seasons out of a new frame completely worry free or a completely unknown amount out of a used one that's cool it's just something to take into account when you are buying a frame.

Time to move away from that steel crap, get a Cannondale.