Advocacy & Safety - Defence against dogs.

hi all,

Was recently surprised to read that unleashed dogs are a great threat in many countries.

In my city the streets are not clean and are litterred with stones, rocks and concrete chunks everywhere. The barking dogs generally run away on seeing the person if he tries to pick a rock from the street(you have to try it to see what effect a sizeable stone has on the attacking mongrel).

So why not have some rocks and concrete chunks strewn around your place it might help a great deal when you are cornered by the bloody mongrels(i love animals, especially dogs but i cant put up with the aggressive ones).

The major disadvantage is the rocks falling in hands of hooligans, antisocial elements, pranky kids and might perhaps give an ugly look to your surroundings but it is perhaps the best way to defend not only against dogs but also against humans(recently in my city a woman chased a couple of men who tried to molest her, by just stoning them).

Although this might not help the cyclists, they can carry a few with them i usually carry one with me when i ride alone on nights, the time when canines are at their worst.

regards
iluvbiking
:beer:

Originally posted by iluvbiking
In my city the streets are...litterred with stones, rocks and concrete chunks everywhere. The barking dogs generally run away on seeing the person if he tries to pick a rock from the street...

(recently in my city a woman chased a couple of men who tried to molest her, by just stoning them).
:roflmao:

I would have LOVED to see that one!

:thumbup:

There are dogs, and there are DOGS!

240 grain hollow point .429 (44) caliber magnum usually does the trick.

Originally posted by iluvbiking
So why not have some rocks and concrete chunks strewn around your place it might help a great deal when you are cornered by the bloody mongrels(i love animals, especially dogs but i cant put up with the aggressive ones).

There are two things I'd prefer to avoid doing if I could. One is carrying extra weight, so carrying rocks is out. Another is stopping unnecessarily when I'm on a ride, so looking for a nearby rock is out.

I have not been chased by a dog that can run 18 miles per hour.
On my bike I can out run any dog. and I've been chased by a few.
love it ! it helps me stay in shape. there is a farm on my training
route with a dog that love to chase us! we even wait for him to come out. talk bad about his mother that really pissses him off.
lol..

Interestingly enough, since I moved from the No. Virginia area to S. F. Bay I have had not one encounter with an unleashed dog! Even in Virginia these encounters were few and far between. I wonder whether cyclists just naturally gravitate toward the roads/routes where they know there will not be dogs to deal with. Or have I just been lucky to ride in areas without lots of dogs? Are there regional or socio-economic variables that come into play?

Originally posted by ahuman
I have not been chased by a dog that can run 18 miles per hour.

Oh I have, and faster on occasions.

I actually had a dog on one of my routes I looked forward to racing. He could get up to 30+ mph. One time I had sprinted up to his yard too soon and started to die as he chased me down the road holding a steady 25+ for a long distance.

i keep dog bones taped to my stem. i throw them out when they come runnin'. don't laugh, it works.

I got chased by a little peewee dog the other day, I thought, no problem, I'll just sprint away...

at 24 mph, he was still gaining on me. Fortunately he pooped out really quick.

At my friends house last weekend, he was riding an ATV, that has been modified extensively. It is VERY fast. As he rode past his house on the dirt road, his dog came out and gave chase. She couldn't quite keep up, but I wouldn't be suprised if she was running at least 35 or 40. I've NEVER seen a dog run that fast. Not even a Greyhound.

My strategy is to avoid them if possible. If this is not possible then a quick sprint will get you past most of them. If this doesn't work, then dismount and place the bike between you and the dog. If it goes beyond this, then I carry pepper spray and a folding knife. Pepper spray cannot be counted upon all by itself. It is difficult to use unless dismounted and will not stop a determined attacker because it takes a second or two for the beast to notice that he has been hosed.

I had to blast a local rotweiller twice before he backed off. Had the encounter lasted just 10-30 seconds longer I would have had to close with him and gut him. This is a prospect I do not relish.

Part of the problem is that dogs do not have an instintive understanding of pepper spray (or firearms for that matter). They know about clubs and knives, but must taught to appreciate pepper spray.

My latest dog encounter has a much happier ending. I was running home from work and I hear this young girl yelling and screaming. Because I am the father of a 10 year old girl, I have been conditioned to ignore a certain amount of yelling and screaming by children, It no longer registers as anything but background noise. Well about a half a mile later I notice this 6-8 month old puppy following on my heels. He looks like he is having a wonderful time. THAT is what all the yelling was about. Well I stopped and introduced myself to the dog and we ran the 1/2 mile back to where I saw the kid and then I delivered the dog back to it's home. I continued on home.

Dan

We recently had a tragety here and our bikes club's community affairs officer (me) sent the following letter to all the area animal control offices:

Dear xxxxx,

I am the Community Affairs Officer of Huntsville’s Spring City Cycling Club. I am writing to ask for your assistance with a problem that has led to numerous serious injuries among our members. This problem is due to unrestrained animals, mostly dogs, that charge or chase cyclists. Over the past year, charging dogs have caused in excess of a dozen bicycle crashes within our club, several of which resulted in serious injury. Most recently, one of our members collided with a charging dog in Morgan County and the result was five broken ribs, a broken collarbone, and lengthy hospital stay.

Regardless of leash or containment laws, a very large number of dogs are allowed to roam unrestrained in North Alabama, particularly in rural areas. I believe that the majority of these dogs’ owners do not restrain their animals because they think that their dog will not bite. Unfortunately, they fail to realize the very real hazard dogs represent to anyone that cycles on the public roadways. Dogs are naturally inclined to chase things that are “running,” and that unfortunately includes cyclists. Far too often the result is a dog into the front wheel of the bicycle, with the rider going down head first. Cyclists have died in this manner, including one from Huntsville several years ago.

The Spring City Cycling Club asks for your assistance in addressing this problem. We have provided the Animal Control phone numbers to all of our members and have asked them to report instances of charging or chasing dogs to you. We ask that you follow up on these reports and take the appropriate action to eliminate the hazard these unrestrained animals create. Also, we ask that you help us to educate the owners of these animals regarding the dangers they pose to cyclists, and point out the resulting financial liability to them should their animal cause a bicycle crash.

Our goal here is to put an end to this type of totally preventable accident.

Sincerely

Being a dog owner My self, I know dogs sometime get away from thier restrains. I would not want to hurt someones pet If I can't out sprint it. I will try spraying water from My water bottle. I never had a dog continue past this. but I would not reward a dog (given it a treat) for chasing me this only tells the dog that a reward is coming for running someone down and may piss him off if their is no reward after catching you. I had more damage done by squails (sp) Little gray/black/brown rat looking things that run into my front wheel. (whats up with that?)

a friend of mine is a K-9 operator for the police dept. and has said that pepper spray is useless on most dogs, because it doesn't affect them as it does humans. but if it seems to work for you, then by all means use it. but it is not a guarantee.

Originally posted by spinner1
a friend of mine is a K-9 operator for the police dept. and has said that pepper spray is useless on most dogs, because it doesn't affect them as it does humans. but if it seems to work for you, then by all means use it. but it is not a guarantee.

You have to get it into their eyes. Using a spray that streams instead of fogs is what you want. Also I use 10% OC based spray. Lower concentration OC and CS/CN based sprays (mace) are less effective (or so I am told). There is also a significant delay before the dog realizes it can't see anymore. It takes quite a bit of presence of mind to orient yourself correctly (back to the wind) and deliver the spray correctly. Also it helps to have at least a 4oz can of the stuff because more than one application may be necessary.

I have used quite alot of this stuff. At one point I was going through one can a month. Pepper Spray has significant limitations but it does work "as advertised".

Dan

I have noticed a huge decrease in the number of unleashed dogs lately. I give credit to lawyers for this one since I'm guessing that it must be the fear of lawsuits that is responsible.

Anyway, it has always worked for me to just slow down. I think dogs lose interest in chasing if you aren't charging into their territory. Of course, this plan could backfire horribly if I encounter an aggressive dog, but going with the odds seems to work for me. Hopefully all the unleashed aggressive dogs have been dealt with by now. My main backup plan is the water bottle (squirt, not throw).

Dogs. A serious hazard.

Rural dogs are very creatures than suburban or urban dogs. People who live and ride in rural areas will attest to what I'm saying, and people who haven't done that will probably find it hard to believe. I didn't understand it, myself, until I lived in a rural area. Rural dogs roam free most of the time, and revert to their wild instincts to a considerable degree. They rarely see cyclists, and when they do it makes them crazy. It is not uncommon for them just to fly off of the farm after you, every fiber yearning to bite you good. No barking. No warning.

I certainly have encountered dogs that can run faster than 18 mph. A lot faster. So I won't try to sprint away unless I'm sure I can make it.

I am always alert for dogs. Experience is a hard teacher! Every time I pass a yard I unconsciously scan for dogs, listen for a bark, watch for a quick movement, and listen for the tell-tale clickety-clack of a dog's nails on the road. People outside are a big red flag. If they're outside, chances are they've got Fido out there with them.

But you can't always avoid dogs. My friends in the club here were out on a ride, in a paceline, when suddenly one of the local curs sprang up out of the ditch on the side of the road. They had absolutely no chance to avoid the dog. He went right in front of the lead rider. The whole line went down. One rider to the hospital. In this case the dog wasn't even anyone's dog. Just some dog that roamed around and got fed by one of the locals.

I do carry rocks in my jersey when I head out. I don't like the weight either, and I don't like to stop, but you have to do something.

If I can't just get away, or I don't feel like sprinting, I stop and dismount. Then I confront the beast.

The more aggressive dogs can be scared over time. You can throw rocks at them. Or you can turn and ride right at them, yelling curses or what have you. If you do this every time you see them, eventually they'll leave you alone.

Pepper spray is a good thing to carry, and not just for dogs. It will work with dogs, believe me. But you have to get the eyes, or spray into the noses. An earlier poster said a K9 cop told him that dogs aren't affected the same way people are by spray. Dogs can ignore pain better than we can, particularly when they're worked up and attacking. But they are in pain if you spray them, trust me. Luckily, most dogs aren't as committed to an attack as a trained police dog. So they'll be turned away by a shot of pepper spray. When they recognize you the next time, they will turn and run the other way, too.

When it comes to pepper spray, the percentage of pepper in the spray-- 8%, 10%, whatever-- isn't that important. What's important is the SHU rating. The higher, the more painful the spray. The concentration of pepper in the spray is a guide to how much spray you must use to produce an effect.

For the best commercial, civilian pepper spray, see

www.foxlabs.com

Pepper spray is a pain to use. It's hard to spray while you're riding. And if you dismount the dogs won't often come close enough to get tagged. Also, any of it that you get on your clothing will stay there through many washes. It will irritate your skin until nearly every molecule of the stuff is eliminated.

The best solution I have ever used for a dog is a little squirt from the water bottle. By the time they figure out what you just sprayed them with you've gapped them and I have yet to have one take up the chase again.

Zack

I've been chased by dogs many times. Where I live the leash law allows dogs to run free during daylight hours. I had a pit bull run into my back tire once, I was bitten on my leg once, he came out behind a hedge and I didn't see him until too late. I now carry pepper spray with me, and I've used it.

My father-in-law used to commute to work on his bike. There was always one dog that chased him and was very determined to catch the old guy on the bike. Well one day, as my father-in-law was riding to work, the dog was so intent on chasing the bike he failed to see the parked car in his path. The dog hit the back of the car running full tilt. After that, my father-in-law had no further problems with that dog.

The pepper spray that was mentioned earlier with a stream of spray is called "Halt". Many mail carriers use it and I have used it to stop fights between my own dogs. Once you use it, they remember it. With my own dogs after the first time, all I had to do was get the container out and things quiet down.

A few years ago in the country a small dog always ran out and started biting at my legs, after one use of the spray he would run out only to were he could see who was riding by and would lay down and just give me a dirty look. He never came into the road after me again. Better for his health that way.:D

I'd suggest hitting the brakes to get behind them, then turning the tables and chasing the dog, giving out a loud roar if possible. Once you show the dog that you are the baddest thing on the route, they will stop bothering you and may even turn friendly. In my experience, dogs are usually aggressive only if you run from them. This always worked when I was out running.

Paul