Living Car Free - A car free conversation

I wanted to share a conversation I overheard while eating breakfast at a local "diner." It's one of those places where the tables in the middle of the room are seperated by a wall that's three to four feet high with baskets of fake plants on top. I had the joy of sitting next to the wall, which means I was approximately one foot away from the table to my right, and the loud conversation being held by three or four delightful young women. I say three or four because I could only see two and their table mate(s) were hidden by the beautiful plastic plant. The two I could see were blond and probably wear two or three Greek letters on their shirts from time to time.

Anyway, I was trying very hard to tune out their conversation while participating in the much quieter conversation at my own table. Then I heard blond #1 say, "...and then I found out he didn't have a car!" Now I stopped trying to tune out and started operation "Drop the Eaves." Blond #2 responded with something along the lines of "He's so cute and smart too, I just can't believe he doesn't have a car. I feel sorry for him." "I know, I would go out with him otherwise, but..." says blond #1. Hidden friend says, "I don't know if he can't afford one, or maybe he just likes riding his bike. I still don't think I would date him. How would you go out on dates?" "I know!!" reply the blonds-I-can-see in unison. At this point Blond woman #2 tops it all, and says, "He's probably living off a trust fund and loaded. Ha ha ha, wouldn't that be funny?" At that point operation "Drop the Eaves" was aborted and I tried twice as hard to ignore the other side of the wall.

Blond woman #2 likes the guy. Before she can date him, she needs a cover story that's acceptable in her social circle. This approach is brilliant. Regardless of the smart handsome guy's real financial situation, blond woman #2 now has permission from her peers to date him.

Wherever you go you're going to run into stereotyping. At least these women were willing to come up with a more positive theory about carfree guy.

Oh well, he's probably a loser anyway. Most guys are.

Like most things in life you have to set your priorities or they will be set for you by society by default. My priority is enjoying my bike riding and live debt free. With a girlfriend I have found both of those priorities usually go out the window. Girlfriends are not cheap to keep and if they are not into bike riding or physical activities when you meet them then I am not going to change them. Such is life.

What gets lost in these "no car" conversations is safety being a factor. Most women like the convenience and safety of being transported around in a car, whether they realize it or not. My wife and I were car-free for almost a year before buying a used minivan a few months ago. Now she wants to be driven around all over the place and no longer wants to ride the bus and save gas and the enviroment.

Like cigarette smoking, I think automobiles are a bad habit and it's hard to quit! People in modern society are conditioned this way and can't seem to think any different.

*shrugs* I've dated (AND had sex) while car free. If the girl won't accept me for who I am, then why the hell would I want to be with her?

My wife and I had many great car-free dates while we were going out, and have had a lot since. :) If a girl can't accept my lifestyle, I have no interest in her.

*shrugs* I've dated (AND had sex) while car free. If the girl won't accept me for who I am, then why the hell would I want to be with her?

My wife and I had many great car-free dates while we were going out, and have had a lot since. :) If a girl can't accept my lifestyle, I have no interest in her.

I think many of us on this forum, in the long-term, would prefer the type of a woman who would respect the fact that we're not car-worshippers. Those women are out there!

Well, if you think about it being car free helps you sort out all the
shallow self centered b!tches that you might have to divorce later
'cause if she's got issues about you cycling it'll be much worse if
ya marry the b!tch.

Guy's who find women that share the same values ,such as cycling,
are lucky men indeed (the gal is also lucky for the same reason).

My friends... It is a cold hard fact that living car free WILL limit your opportunities to get laid by many members of the female population.

Try batting for the other team. Seriously. As a gay man, cycling scores me extra points. In summer its sexy. In winter I score all sorts of macho points for braving the weather. :D

My friends... It is a cold hard fact that living car free WILL limit your opportunities to get laid by many members of the female population. .
After dumping the car and losing a few pounds I think I have more frequent opportunities than when I had a car. One factor seems to be that if you're out walking or biking or on public transit and meet an acquaintence, it is easier to stop and talk than if you're driving alone in your car. In a car the most you can do is honk and wave and there isn't much eye contact. Like what patc said healthy people have a certain attractiveness. The fear of not being attractive to potential sexual partners might be a cold hard fact but my experience is that the fear is ungrounded. Yes, I know some people believe in the car comercials but filtering those people out of your life is another positive aspect of car free living.

Blond woman #2 likes the guy. Before she can date him, she needs a cover story that's acceptable in her social circle. This approach is brilliant. Regardless of the smart handsome guy's real financial situation, blond woman #2 now has permission from her peers to date him.

Agree completely. This guy is going to get some because the chick thinks he's hot. So even if she believes not having a car is one step away from homeless, she rationalizes his situation and will go for it.

This actually proves that even if you ride a bike, you can still get hot chicks. Granted, many will be turned off, but you can still get some.

I guess I was just thinking about my experiences as a heterosexual man dealing with the young female hotties. I never thought about it from your viewpoint. But I will stay with my current team. I'm really attached to it. :)

Its amusing how silly each sub-culture gets, when you look at it objectively. The gay bar scene is, for the most part, obsessed with masculinity. Does it really matter if I drink beer out of a glass or bottle? If I wear boots instead of shoes? Know how to use power tool (and actually own some)? Of course its a transparent over-reaction to a society that sees gay men as less masculine. I'm not above taking advantage of that over-reaction, though :p

I think it is funny when people think they need a car to get laid. I have found it much easier to meet women without a car. When I am on my bike it is much easier to talk to women I meet on the street (not hookers) and start a conversation. Right away they see that I am in good shape and concerned about my health. I also have a freind that refuses to get a car because he meets women on the bus. I think if you have a car you are really cutting down your chances at meeting women. As well it filters out the dumb blondes that you overheard at the diner. Maybe if this guy is lucky he will hook up with one of dumb blondes and then never call them again.

Those blondes are not dumb, they're ignorant. It's a remediable condition.

Those blondes are not dumb, they're ignorant.

Yeah, ignorant facing that question: is he living off a trust fund?

Try batting for the other team. Seriously. As a gay man, cycling scores me extra points. In summer its sexy. In winter I score all sorts of macho points for braving the weather. :D
But my experience has been that the whole scene is pretty much the same for gays as straights. Unfortunately cycling hasn't worked real well for me on the romantic front. :(

I'm sure thinner and tanner helps, and so do nice leg muscles--all from riding. Another thing that helps--the money you save by not financing a car comes in handy in the early stages of a relationship, when you might be going out a lot and paying for at least half of the meals and tickets, and so forth.

But my experience has been that the whole scene is pretty much the same for gays as straights. Unfortunately cycling hasn't worked real well for me on the romantic front. :(


Who said anything about romance? I was mostly talking about recreational sex. Its been a few years since I dated (and that wasn't serious), but being car-free was pretty much a non-issue.

*raises hand* I wouldn't mind dated someone who didn't have a car. Sure, I wouldn't completely give up mine. As for being driven around, it is good so I'd at least make him get a tandem *grin*.
But then maybe I'm biased.

After dumping the car and losing a few pounds I think I have more frequent opportunities than when I had a car. One factor seems to be that if you're out walking or biking or on public transit and meet an acquaintence, it is easier to stop and talk than if you're driving alone in your car. In a car the most you can do is honk and wave and there isn't much eye contact. Like what patc said healthy people have a certain attractiveness. The fear of not being attractive to potential sexual partners might be a cold hard fact but my experience is that the fear is ungrounded. Yes, I know some people believe in the car comercials but filtering those people out of your life is another positive aspect of car free living.

Totally true, I'm not car free but ride every opportunity I can, and even in the suburbs here, I meet lots of ladies.

He's so cute and smart too, I just can't believe he doesn't have a car. I feel sorry for him.


Remember... With women it is all too often about their feelings and not about the facts.

Lancerob, below is the only thing you forgot to add to that little diatribe:


I don't support replacing idiotic stereotypes about car-free people with dumb gender stereotypes, but with women it is all too often about their feelings and not about the facts.

This has been discussed numerous times before, and I hate to say this, but these two women are representative of a significant number of the female population. Younger women especially are attracted to higher socioeconomic status, and whether we like it or not, cars are a status symbol.

I've had the opposite experience of those who think it's easier to get laid while biking. At one time I lived in a fairly rural community and had a decent car. Unconsequently, I had a much easier time getting laid. Now that I live in the city and don't have a car, most females show little interest in me. I've seen the way women look at a guy in a business suit...

At least these two are honest about it... A friend of mine brought up a good point: He said, "It's pointless to discuss female mate preferences with women because most women aren't even honest with themselves about what they look for in a potential male suitor."

This is absolutely true.

Stereotypes or not. That conversation accurately reflected my experience as a young car-free man.

Interestingly, now that I'm older, it doesn't seem to affect things nearly as much. I think I get some extra points for being in shape.

cars are a status symbol.

I've seen the way women look at a guy in a business suit...


The last person I dated when I had a car broke it off with complaints about my spending habits like this : "I'm embarassed to ride in your volkswagen. With the money you make you should have a mercedes. Mercedes are good cars, my dad has four mercedes....." I met this person while biking. She was very fun but clearly had different life priorities.

I've noticed that when I go to HQ for a meeting wearing a suit I get much different reactions from strange women than when I go business casual. I notice the effect even with the utility bike queering up the suit and tie image.

The answer is to make everything clear at the outset, so that you don't waste your time on the wrong woman!

http://www.howies.co.uk/product.php/392/7/

My friends... It is a cold hard fact that living car free WILL limit your opportunities to get laid by many members of the female population. The question you need to ask yourself is do you really care if you would have a chance with them or not? Realistic or not... NO CAR = LOSER for most younger women... And before anybody gets all upity about the facts... Remember... With women it is all too often about their feelings and not about the facts.


Depends on the mindset of the female population @ any location

Be yourself, so you can live with yourself.

I really don't understand most women. I feel insulted to be one when most are on the prowl for a wallet so they can live in some huge ugly house in the 'burbs and get down to breeding and getting fat. Really, we're not all like that (I hope). I KNOW there are at least a few women out there who are frustrated with how car-obsessed some guys are, though I don't know if that would make them open to carfree sorts.

I made my BF trade his car for a tandem. Not only does it get used a lot more, it's transportation AND a hot date! Besides, nothing caps off a 100+ mile ride to a cute hotel in near-freezing weather like some snugglin'.

Being car free gives you way more disposable income. I have my dates picked up in a limo. Not the fancy stretch type, the town car type. If drinking is a part of the evening then a cab is called for anyways. But have a girl picked up in a fancy town car and see the results. They very much like it.

I think of cars like appliances. I don't get passionate about my dryer. My barbecue maybe but not a car. Wouldn't put fancy stripes or dingle balls on my dish washer.

Now motorcycles are another thing entirely.

I figure cars are for those who never got over losing their training wheels when they were growing up.

I'm with the guys on this one, as a batter for the other team (lesbo) going car free really makes it hard to meet chicks, at least it did when I was car free 25 years ago. I never have any chicks to ride with, most chicks aren't really very active.

Oh, and add hunting and guns to the equation and it's a shallow dating pool indeed. Luckily I found one, doesn't bike much, two out of three ain't bad though.

ot: why are there so many of these threads in this forum? where i live, nearly all of the girls that work at the 3 organic groceries are hot, and nearly all of them ride to work/school/anywhere (including my girlfriend, who also works at one of these stores). do i live in some kind of vortex where sirens sell me organic foodstuffs and are interested in my biking habits?

man. just today I saw this woman....amazing soul, really vibrant, she was on her bike. This is normally how I make friends but i didn't even talk to her because I was in the passenger seat of an SUV!

These threads depress me...if you can't meet a woman on your bike, what can you do? Do they not have Critical Mass where you come from?

what I don't get is this: according to Ladder theory: the outlaw biker always gets laid...seeing as we cyclists (cyclecommuters/car-free'ers especially) are outlaw bikers...why don't we get laid? is spandex that much less sexy than leather?

I ride both motorcycles and bicycles. I am sorry but the image as perceived by the hotties is NOT the same. Argue if you like. But they are not perceived the same.

No kidding. Motorcycles are attractive. Bikes just leave them wondering what's wrong with you...

That said, I just sold both of my motorcycles this week :(
If I weren't married I probably wouldn't have.

<cut> At least these two are honest about it... A friend of mine brought up a good point: He said, "It's pointless to discuss female mate preferences with women because most women aren't even honest with themselves about what they look for in a potential male suitor."

This is absolutely true.
That is 100% correct.

Ask 100 women what the most important traits they look for in a mate are. Virtually all will say, as programmed, #1 sense of humor #2 'nice sweet', sometimes replaced by 'intelligent'. Hardly any of them will say #1 hot #2 successful i.e. rich.

As the blondes in the OP pointed out, he's hot. That can make up for the perceived lack of success.

Don't hate the player, hate the game :cry:

I don't think it's blondeness, I think it's just the stupidity and shallowness of youth.

When you're over 40, and they're over 40, and most of your peers are fat and suffering from chronic diseases, then when you flash by grid-locked traffic showing your abs and buns of steel, then the tables will be turned, my friend.

But if you want to play the shallowness game now, get a pricey, flashy, gold wristwatch, wear only the best shades, make sure your bike clothes, helmet, and bike are upscale. All of those things telegraph status to those who might care.

why are there so many of these threads in this forum? where i live, nearly all of the girls that work at the 3 organic groceries are hot, and nearly all of them ride to work/school/anywhere (including my girlfriend, who also works at one of these stores). do i live in some kind of vortex where sirens sell me organic foodstuffs and are interested in my biking habits?

Either the posters don't know about organic grocery stores or, more likely, they don't know how to go about flirting with their grocery cashier!

That said, I just sold both of my motorcycles this week :(
If I weren't married I probably wouldn't have.

I know the feeling. I sold my motorcycle (and only motor vehicle) last week. To the insurance company. :(

I'm not married, and I wasn't injured in the wreck, but now my girlfriend nervous at the idea of me picking it up again in the spring. I probably would go back to motorcycling anyways, except that since my visit to the mountains of TN/NC/GA in April, New England roads have come to seem straight, flat, crowded, and boring.

I never found motorcycling to directly help me with the ladies -- I geek out on gear and gadgets, which neutralizes the sexiness of motorcycling. An Aerostich and a white helmet are really no better than bright neon bicycle-commuter gear when it comes to sex appeal. What I did find was that motorcycling was viscerally fun in a way that none of my previous hobbies had been, and that riding regularly made me a much more cheerful person -- and that definitely helped with the ladies, and everything else.

Bicycling has some of the same effect -- I don't usually get quite the same visceral thrill from bicycling (except sometimes when I go offroad), but the health and fitness benefits make up for the lack of raw adrenaline.

I know the feeling. I sold my motorcycle (and only motor vehicle) last week. To the insurance company. :(

I'm not married, and I wasn't injured in the wreck, but now my girlfriend nervous at the idea of me picking it up again in the spring. I probably would go back to motorcycling anyways, except that since my visit to the mountains of TN/NC/GA in April, New England roads have come to seem straight, flat, crowded, and boring.
So, you rode the dragon? I used to go there a couple times a week when I still had my motorcycle, it's about a half hour from my house depending on traffic.

It'd be fun coming down that thing on a bicycle now that I think about it :D

So, you rode the dragon? I used to go there a couple times a week when I still had my motorcycle, it's about a half hour from my house depending on traffic.

It'd be fun coming down that thing on a bicycle now that I think about it :D

I rode the dragon, and a bunch of other great roads, there. The ones that hit me the hardest, so to speak, were the ones in Georgia, maybe an hour north of Atlanta. I lived in that city for a long time, but that was before I took up motorcycling. It's a little sad to look back and realize that I spent all those years within easy day-trip distance of some fantastic riding, and couldn't/didn't take advantage of it.

If I still lived in Atlanta (or a half-hour from the dragon), it'd be a no-brainer for me to get another motorcycle in the spring.

And yeah, a lot of those roads would be great on a bicycle, too. I was back down that way a month ago, and this time I brought along my bicycle. I didn't ride anything nearly as extreme as the dragon, but I had a lot of fun, anyways.

I rode the dragon before i sold my zx7rr, i think i actually cried that day, well until i picked my cbr to bad i wadded it up

"Girlfriends are not cheap to keep and if they are not into bike riding or physical activities when you meet them then I am not going to change them. Such is life."

Boy is that true! I'm going to change the word "girlfriend" to the word "wife" and the phrase will not change.

We got married because she is my soulmate, whether or not we dig ALL of the same things. And, as such, that means that our lifestyles aren't the same. I ride my bike and don't have a car. She doesn't like to do anything physically challenging, aside from hiking, and has an SUV. Luckily, I have a larger control on the carbon footprint that we leave than she does, as I control the heating/cooling and electricity and, when we use the car, we do carpool with friends and stuff. I've tried to get her more motivated about being physical, but she's pregnant now and I can't really complain about that.

Be safe,
Jonathan

Do i live in some kind of vortex where sirens sell me organic foodstuffs and are interested in my biking habits?

Yes.

Enjoy every moment of it.

Wow, I've been busy so I haven't been able to get on the forums. There's no way I can respond to a lot of what has been said here, but I'll make some general comments.

In defense of the young women, Cincinnati is a difficult city to be car free in. I don't live car free here, but try to minimize my driving. The city is very spread out, the drivers are aggressive, and to go a lot of places the only choices are very busy roads where speeding is the norm. Where I lived car free in the past all of the neighborhoods were connected by small side streets and I could get anywhere without hitting the main arteries. There are areas of Cinti that would make it easier to live car free, but not many. The buses have bike racks lately, but the bus system is very limited. Changes are made by voting on issues and levies, and any kind of alternative transportation push has been voted down repeatedly. To be honest, it sucks.

That said, I still found the conversation I heard to be very shallow. It doesn't surprise me though, and those women were not the type of women I would have wanted to date when I was younger anyway. When I was car free when I was younger it never posed any dating problems for me, because I was interested in the young women that were similar to me. I had many great bicycle dates, or walking dates. There is something about fresh air, excercise, and having a good time to help two people connect.

To those that made an inference regarding the fact that the women were blond, I only included that because that's all I could really see of them. I suppose I should have just said "Chjck #1," "Gal #1," or whatever. I didn't mean to imply that their hair color influenced their world view.

Yes lordconqueror, you do live in a vortex, at least areas like that are the exception in America, not the rule. I used to visit Madison, WI a lot and dreamed about living there. Long winters were kiind of a turn off, but I dug it up there. Hopefully the vortexes are expanding, but count your blessings that you live where you do.

I am happy to report that they are sloooowwwwllllyyy working bicycles into the transportation scheme here.

Let's not blame our bikes for our inability to get laid. If a woman likes you, she'll go out with you even without a car, if you have something else to offer, like maybe a personality or a clean shirt or something....

Try batting for the other team. Seriously. As a gay man, cycling scores me extra points. In summer its sexy. In winter I score all sorts of macho points for braving the weather. :D

I've always had a theory that gay men have it easier in their relationships than do us het men. Less bull**** if you know what I mean.

But, the only penis I'm attracted to is my own.
So I'm left chasing skirts.

I've always had a theory that gay men have it easier in their relationships than do us het men. Less bull**** if you know what I mean.

Oh, its a mixed blessing... different set of pressures, really. The only thing I can say, being polyamorous and knowing gay, bi, and straight poly folk, is that it is far easier to define your own relationships on your own terms for gay men.

Oh, its a mixed blessing... different set of pressures, really. The only thing I can say, being polyamorous and knowing gay, bi, and straight poly folk, is that it is far easier to define your own relationships on your own terms for gay men.
I think we do have more leeway in defining our relationships. Many straight relationships are defined as either marriage or leading to marriage.

I think we do have more leeway in defining our relationships. Many straight relationships are defined as either marriage or leading to marriage.

So are many gay ones, now. I don't understand why anyone would want to get married. We (Canadians) get nearly identical rights as common-law couples, so why saddle yourself with the historical baggage of marriage, and the more limited break-up options (aka divorce)? I shouldn't complaint, though, shooting weddings pays a lot of my bills.

So are many gay ones, now. I don't understand why anyone would want to get married. We (Canadians) get nearly identical rights as common-law couples, so why saddle yourself with the historical baggage of marriage, and the more limited break-up options (aka divorce)? I shouldn't complaint, though, shooting weddings pays a lot of my bills.


altho i agree with the common law concept not all of us live in canada

My friends... It is a cold hard fact NO CAR = LOSER for most younger women... And before anybody gets all upity about the facts... Remember... With women it is all too often about their feelings and not about the facts.

Lancerrob...I couldn't agree more. But those members of the opposite sex that can see beyond that are absolute keepers.

By the way..."Come With Me... And You'll Be... In A World Of Pure Imagination..."<--is that "The Mighty Boosh" ??