Classic & Vintage - Campagnolo Visual Database Project

A conversation in the Catch of the Day thread got me thinking about this. As Kurt said in there, there is currently no pictorial database of campy parts on the web to help you identify what you have. This would be the ideal resource, really, for knowledge-free muppets like me when they're trying to figure what they've got, and where it fits.

So, I thought to myself, why don't WE do it, the BF C&V forum? There can be few internet groups who know more about the topic (and we can call for advice from the ClassicRendezvous list when necessary!), and since we're all clearly internet geeks, we probably have the other skills too. Most of us have, or have had, Campy pieces, and have pictures. Some of use know a lot about what's what. I'm a semi-professional writer. We could do this, and create a really fantastic resource for vintage bike fans.

I would be happy to be the contact point for collecting photos, and I also don't mind doing some or all of the writing. What we'd also need is someone with web design skills, and a sensible way to pay for hosting. That, and for all of you to contribute your Campy pics and knowledge of course.....

So, who's with me? There's no money in it of course, but there's the pride of creating something really good, plus we'd have the resource there to use in future ourselves.....

Hmmm. Turns out this company

http://www.campyoldy.co.uk/

is only about 30 mins from my house. I daresay with his assistance I could get a lot of the pictures very quickly.......

Sammy, I have the server, website and space - see my link below at The Headbadge.

I also can provide photos of the following loose Campagnolo parts:

NR '72 r-derailer (we could use a photograph of one of the prototype 1966 versions with just "Patent" too, BTW)
NR '79 r-derailer
NR pre '77 fr-derailer
NR post-'77 fr-derailer
Victory RD, '87
Victory FD
NR headset
1963 Record high-flange front hub with curved skewer
1960 Record high-flange front hub with straight skewer
NOS Victory brake lever
NOS Super Record brake lever
NOS Triomphe brake lever w/o lever body
Guircotti NR panto'ed levers, NOS (we can have a seperate section for various panto'ed components - but seperate from the standard ID database)

As for parts mounted on my bikes (pictures of these don't look as good as loose parts):

NR crankset, dated 1985 with pre '77 rings
NR rings, 1985 on Sugino crankset
All Triomphe components

Just let me know if you find you need a photo of any of the above listed components, and can't find an example to photograph. The invitation for posting the Visual Database on The Headbage is wide open.

Take care,

-Kurt

I was starting to think no-one else was interested! I'll have pics of the stuff that's on the Raleigh, plus a Gran Sport RD which is on Gill's Mercian, a Velox RD, an NR Derailleur (but I don't know the year - we should check that), etc etc.

If others can contribute pictures too, it'd be easy at least to get started.

I was starting to think no-one else was interested! I'll have pics of the stuff that's on the Raleigh, plus a Gran Sport RD which is on Gill's Mercian, a Velox RD, an NR Derailleur (but I don't know the year - we should check that), etc etc.

If others can contribute pictures too, it'd be easy at least to get started.

I'd like to try and get photos of loose components on white backrounds if possible though, Sammy. The uniformity of the photos improves the visual aspect of them - and also makes it easier for newcomers to spot the differences.

I was thinking of breaking the database down into two sections - one section devoted to comparing all component variants in a single group against each other (brake levers to brake levers, RDs to RDs, etc.), and a seperate section listed by groupset, showcasing complete groupset photos - or at least, collages of photos for each groupset.

Take care,

-Kurt

P.S.: This reminds me - I STILL haven't scanned Neal's 1975 Raleigh catalogue.

I will look through my parts bin and see what photos I can offer. I think it is a great idea, because every time I think I finally have all my components correct I learn something that shows me that I didn't!

I know that I have an old Gran Sport, a Nuovo Gran Sport, some Gran Sport shifters, a Nuovo Record front and rear from 1976 with those stupid plastic things, a Rally and probably some more.

I have a few odds & ends.

This is necessary!!!! Great Idea. I only have three campy things (too cheap) but I am always looking here in tallahassle!!!

I have some stuff as well. Skewer comparisons and end nuts and stuff...

Photos would be a great idea. I currently use the catalogs and the are woefully incomplete. I have some late 50s early 60s stuff. Let me know where and when you want the stuff.

If anyone is interested in the catalogs, you can download .pdfs here:
http://www.campyonly.com/history/catalogs.html

Or buy printed versions here:
http://www.velo-retro.com/list.html

Hmmm. Turns out this company

http://www.campyoldy.co.uk/

is only about 30 mins from my house. I daresay with his assistance I could get a lot of the pictures very quickly.......

Yes, Nigel should be a great resource. If he is willing to let you photograph his supply, you should offer to give him digital copies in return. I'm sure he gets lots of requests for pictures before folks actually buy.

I can also provide several pics of, mostly 2nd gerernation, mid-late '80's C-record parts.

There is this pretty amazing site by a Japanese collector:

http://members.aol.com/satorumas/

I don't have any campy parts, but I can grab what I can of good images off ebay auctions that I come across. When this gets done, I'll be happy to add a link the the information on my website.

Let me know what you need. I have:

1959 downtube shift levers
1960 high-flange hubset with skewers
1960 Gran Sport derailleur set
mid 1970s(?) brake calipers
1980 downtube levers (look VERY similar to the ca 1960 set)
1980 NR derailleur set
early 1980s rear derailleur, model 980
ca. 1980 Gran Sport low-flange hubset w/ skewers
1980 Gran Sport pedals
ca. 1980 aluminum toeclips
ca. 1990 Veloce right crank, assorted chainrings, plus cracked left crank :(

I am starting to learn lots of important difference but haven't nailed down dates.. for example, not only did early campy brakes have the flat quick release arms but the cams also said campagnolo brev. instead of just brev. camp, The center bolts also may have said something different... what does it say on the spring holding part of your center bolts, John E?

I think at this stage, I'd like everything. Can people send pics, in jpg format, to:

whinge2me@yahoo.co.uk

Could you please make the filename indicative of what it is, as much detail as you know, ie 1961GranSportRD.jpg

I'll start sorting them into directories, and see what we've got. Of course, I'll need the input of those who know more than me to know what we're missing!

Would also appriciate copies to my PM box.

Currently working on the general setup of the rear derailer database. As I know the most about RDs over any other component, I figured I'd start here for a head start.

As I can't have everything in exact timeline lineup, I'm organizing the list according to the first year the first variant of a new gruppo was released. In the cases of multiple new component models for a given year, the top-end component will be listed first, and the cheaper models following, e.g., C-Record, Victory, Triomphe, 980.

Here's a link to the rear derailer database - input appriciated. Of course, there will be a main database page in addition to this one, with links to photos of full grouppos, and other components such as brake levers, shifters, FDs, headsets, etc.:

http://www.jaysmarine.com/TH_campag_RD.html

What I need in addition to photos: Any and all information that anyone here can provide on the release and cancellation dates of each gruppo and gruppo variants.

Currently, I'm using some info from the Campagnolo Timeline, but the Timeline does not have sufficent information on cancellation years for components, and is somewhat lacking in other information fields as well.

Take care,

-Kurt

P.S.: You may note a photo of a Campagnolo Gran Turismo rear derailer in the list. As you can see, it is photographed on a white backround with good lighting.

If possible, I would appriciate it if any new photos provided to the database are photographed in this fashion, with the derailer placed roughly the same as you see this Gran Turismo in - pulley cage parallel to the ground, parallelogram arm angled about 15-20 degrees to the left.

-Kurt

What I need in addition to photos: Any and all information that anyone here can provide on the release and cancellation dates of each gruppo and gruppo variants.

Currently, I'm using some info from the Campagnolo Timeline, but the Timeline does not have sufficent information on cancellation years for components, and is somewhat lacking in other information fields as well.

Take care,

-Kurt
Hey Kurt, do you have access to Berto et al.'s "The Dancing Chain"? They have Campag., Shimano, and SunTour timelines that are purported to be accurate, although I have read a few minor complaints.

Hey Kurt, do you have access to Berto et al.'s "The Dancing Chain"? They have Campag., Shimano, and SunTour timelines that are purported to be accurate, although I have read a few minor complaints.

Sorry to say I do not have that book - not to mention many others.

My bicycle literature is derived mainly from the internet, for better or worse.

-Kurt

This sounds like fun :)

I'll be sending pics & info by the end of the week

That's awesome Kurt - really good. It's missing Velox though - of which I will be able to provide a pic within 7 days or so.

I'll send Croce d'Aune pictures (the real croce with the bar).

marty

Sammy:

I'm aware that it's missing some gruppos. This morning, I began adding everything mentioned in the Campagnolo Timeline that I had yet to put in. I just stopped for a rest at Gran Turismo after adding all those Valentino derailers :rolleyes:

-Kurt

Incedentally, for those who wish to get a nice sharp photo, below is a photo of how I just photographed one of my NR derailers. You can also see that the resulting photo was quite yellowed - but some editing in Jasc Paint Shop Pro took care of that in the following photo.

I used a plastic shoebox lid for a backdrop. The flat-white backround works well as a nice backdrop that doesn't wrinkle or shine.

The derailer is being held up by a Presta valve cap under the upper pivot bolt.

Take care,

-Kurt

The NR derailer is now shown photographed in the list, and all derailer variants (according to the Campagnolo Timeline) have been added up to 1974.

http://www.jaysmarine.com/TH_campag_RD.html

-Kurt

Still no Velox? It exists, I tells ya!

1987 variant (Or is it '86?) Campagnolo Victory RD added. Need photos of the earlier '85 variant.

If anyone can come up with an Victory or Triomphe RD with the nylon sleeve dated 1986, let me know, and I'll revise the pages.

EDIT: Just got a photo of an '87 variant (or is it '88? Need confirmation here too) Victory RD from eBay, but could use a proper photo if anyone has this later Victory rear mech.

Take care,

-Kurt

Still no Velox? It exists, I tells ya!

What year was it introduced? I still haven't bothered to add any more models after '70. Been fiddling around with adding some photographs.

-Kurt

Kurt,
I have beat up victory RD which I think is an 86, the insert on the back is slightly mangled but would still work on a bike for display purposes. I may steel the white pulleys for a super record mech. because I think the white looks cool, depends on how clean I can get them. What is the nylon sleeve? How can I date this thing?

Kurt,
I have beat up victory RD which I think is an 86, the insert on the back is slightly mangled but would still work on a bike for display purposes. I may steel the white pulleys for a super record mech. because I think the white looks cool, depends on how clean I can get them. What is the nylon sleeve? How can I date this thing?

Thank you for the offer, but I'll pass - believe it or not, I forgot that I had a beat up '85 Victory RD myself for parts, so I used it for the nylon sleeve photo (click the link, the photo is up).

I'll still need a good photo of the '85-86 Victory variant from the side though, and I'd prefer that the example be in nice condition.

I've seen both the black pulleys and the white on SR rear mechs that I doubt have ever been modified by their owners - but who knows, perhaps the white pulleys are replacements?

Take care,

-Kurt

Just added a hodgepodge of photos to complete the C-Record section.

http://www.jaysmarine.com/TH_campag_RD.html

So far, I have Nuovo Record post-'78, Gran Turismo, C-Record (all, although I do want better photos of the first-generation variant), Victory '86, and a 50th Anniversary photo from eBay that needs to be swapped with a decent photo for a change.

If you have photos of anything not pictured (and 50th Anniv. or C-Record first-gen variant #1), send it along to my email address (link) (cudak888@aol.com). Every little bit helps.

Also need photos of the long-cage "Touring" variants of Triomphe and Victory (haven't listed these up yet) - and if someone can come up with long-cage examples with the silkscreened Campagnolo logo, excellent.

-Kurt

Two other very important things:

#1: When was the actual release of C-Record, Victory, and Triomphe? Campy Timeline says 1985, most of the sites I visit say 1985, one of the forum members here says 1984, and one website I have visited that sells Campag catalogues says 1984 as well. Which is it?

#2: Was Campagnolo's change from engraved logos to silkscreen a sweeping change over every gruppo during one single year (and if so, did this change take place in 1988, or was it 1989?), or did it take more then two years for the silkscreened logo to be adapted to all gruppos?

As a side note, When did Victory S3 come out, and did it directly replace Victory, or was it produced alongside it?

-Kurt

Two other very important things:

#1: When was the actual release of C-Record, Victory, and Triomphe? Campy Timeline says 1985, most of the sites I visit say 1985, one of the forum members here says 1984, and one website I have visited that sells Campag catalogues says 1984 as well. Which is it?

#2: Was Campagnolo's change from engraved logos to silkscreen a sweeping change over every gruppo during one single year (and if so, did this change take place in 1988, or was it 1989?), or did it take more then two years for the silkscreened logo to be adapted to all gruppos?

As a side note, When did Victory S3 come out, and did it directly replace Victory, or was it produced alongside it?

-Kurt

#1: I have a copy of a Campagnolo catalog called "1984 An all Campagnolo year" and it's a catalog of C Record, Victory and Triomphe.

#2: I think it started in 1987 with C Record crank arms and Delta brakes. Then the same on Croce and Chorus in 1988. C Record rear derailleur in 1989. Things like front derailleurs and shifters stayed engraved into the 90's,

campyonly has a Victory S3 catalog from 1987 on their site.

#2: I think it started in 1987 with C Record crank arms and Delta brakes. Then the same on Croce and Chorus in 1988. C Record rear derailleur in 1989. Things like front derailleurs and shifters stayed engraved into the 90's

I have a set of cranks with the screened (or is it laser etched?) logo. The date code on the back is 22 in a square, which I always understood to be 1986. Maybe they're just late 86?

I have a set of cranks with the screened (or is it laser etched?) logo. The date code on the back is 22 in a square, which I always understood to be 1986. Maybe they're just late 86?

It's my understanding that Campy laser-etched it's 86/87 cranks and seatposts. I believe that because the logos were so lightly visible(yet very elegant) they decided to go with the screening on the '88 and up components.

What year was it introduced? I still haven't bothered to add any more models after '70. Been fiddling around with adding some photographs.

-Kurt

I don't know, but I would think definitely pre 70. This is it on the bike, proper photo when
I take it off and clean in (next 5 days)

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a322/Samuelw72/DSC00242.jpg

Kurt, This is a great project, and I intend to contribute what little I can. Please accept the small critique I have as a constructive suggestion. Some of the pictures I've seen have a little too much light - which makes it really hard to make out details on the housing face where the make and model are printed for many of the rear derailleurs. It also makes it difficult to discern the other stampings (the date). I think that re-locating one of the lights might make the pictures of these details much easier to see.

#1: I have a copy of a Campagnolo catalog called "1984 An all Campagnolo year" and it's a catalog of C Record, Victory and Triomphe.

I've heard mention regarding that catalogue, but was it a year-end catalogue for '84, or was it from early '84? If anyone can come up with a C-Record first-gen derailer that is stamped with the 1984 date code, I'll change it. I'd like to get just a wee bit more confirmation though on this.



campyonly has a Victory S3 catalog from 1987 on their site.

That's where I found out about it. Not much info other then pictures there, no word on whether it existed in '86 or not, whether there was a Triomphe S3 or whether Triomphe was dropped, etc...



It's my understanding that Campy laser-etched it's 86/87 cranks and seatposts. I believe that because the logos were so lightly visible(yet very elegant) they decided to go with the screening on the '88 and up components.

Well, that's the first definitive year I've heard yet for RDs - '88. Obviously the '89 catalogue shows a silkscreened C-Record RD. Now if someone could confirm the definite change from engraving to silkscreened as being 1988, that'll take care of a few dating innacuracies currently in the list.


I don't know, but I would think definitely pre 70. This is it on the bike, proper photo when
I take it off and clean in (next 5 days)

Checked the Timeline - it was introduced 1971. I put it up right under Gran Turismo.



Kurt, This is a great project, and I intend to contribute what little I can. Please accept the small critique I have as a constructive suggestion. Some of the pictures I've seen have a little too much light - which makes it really hard to make out details on the housing face where the make and model are printed for many of the rear derailleurs. It also makes it difficult to discern the other stampings (the date). I think that re-locating one of the lights might make the pictures of these details much easier to see.

Which photos, exactly? I tried to get as much detail as possible in my photos (the ones credited to "The Headbadge"), without any shadowing or overpowering light. A few of the photos are from eBay (and one or two may be old reference photos of mine, such as the second-gen C-Record), and until I find suitable replacement photos, they'll have to do for now.

Oh, incedentally, the reason the lettering on the NR derailer came out obscured is because it is physically scraped on the derailer itself (complain to Luker, not to me, I didn't scratch it!). When compared to my 1972 NR RD, this is quite apparent.

Take care,

-Kurt

Checked the Timeline - it was introduced 1971. I put it up right under Gran Turismo.


-Kurt

Wow, I would definitely have guessed earlier. That helps me a lot, actually, in terms of dating that Butler, which is going up for (lots of different) auctions next week.

...Which photos, exactly? ...

Post 26 of this thread. It's very nicely focused, but if I didn't know it said "Campagnolo", I'm not sure I could make it out. The model name is even harder to discern. Sometimes a little bit of shadow can be a good thing.

When was the actual release of C-Record, Victory, and Triomphe? Campy Timeline says 1985, most of the sites I visit say 1985, one of the forum members here says 1984, and one website I have visited that sells Campag catalogues says 1984 as well. Which is it?

Both are correct, depending on your point of reference.

Campagnolo usually introduces it's new products at the Milan show which takes place in September. It's also the time when they usally introduce their catalogs. And of course they are building the new products in anticipation of orders for the upcoming model year. And the pros probably rode them throughout the season.

So yes, these were all introduced (read unveiled) in 1984 and there are catalogs dated 1984 containing them and you can find samples dated 1984. But they are 1985 model year products. That's why I always state that a bicycle with components dated from September to December is probably from the following model year. Same thing with frame serial numbers.

I don't know, but I would think definitely pre 70. This is it on the bike, proper photo when
I take it off and clean in (next 5 days)

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a322/Samuelw72/DSC00242.jpg

I have a Valentino extra which I think may be missing something which goes between the derailleur hanger and the derailleur on the pivot bolt. It has the same kind og bolts as your velox (that is what is pictured right?) but says valentino extra, it's short cage and the limit screws are farther apart. On of these days I should clean it up and give it a bit of luster with some steel wool.

I don't know, but I would think definitely pre 70. This is it on the bike, proper photo when
I take it off and clean in (next 5 days)

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a322/Samuelw72/DSC00242.jpg

The Velox derailleur is in mid-70's catalogs. I don't know if it was made earlier than that.

The Velox and Valentino were cheap, 70s bike boom parts made so even a hundred dollar bicycle could say CAMPAGNOLO COMPONENTS!

The Velox and Valentino were cheap, 70s bike boom parts made so even a hundred dollar bicycle could say CAMPAGNOLO COMPONENTS!

That doesn't mean we don't want them documented.

Sorry about my absence in the last few days - had been busy loading, unloading, and relaxing after the recent bike show.

Haven't recieved much of anything in the way of component pictures, so if you have any RDs to photograph, and if you can photograph it nicely on a white backround, send it in. Nothing other then RDs presently, thank you, for taking care of the RD list is a daunting enough task in itself.

P.S.: Cheap or not, the plan is to document every single Campagnolo component variant made for production, minus pantographed pieces (that can have a seperate section, but I don't believe it'll become a fully documented section).

-Kurt

Not mine but a very fine example of a 1960 Record FD.

http://cgi.ebay.com/First-Edition-1960-Campagnolo-Record-ft-changer_W0QQitemZ280051580401QQihZ018QQcategoryZ58095QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

The seller took good pictures you could lift.

check this auction for a VERY early rear derailleur

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=170044564481