"The 33"-Road Bike Racing - What kind of tires are they using?

I assume the TdFers are using some kind of tubulers, and I read somewhere they got a new set every day. So, how come so many flats? In the TTT didn't Julich (Credit Agricole) flat (not that it hurt them much)? And didn't one of Telekom's riders flat as well? Then today, stage 8, Vinokourov (Telekom) flatted out of todays phenomenal breakway.

Is somebody throwing tacks on the road? If not, I think I'd sacrifice a couple of grams and get a tire that would consistantly last, say, 100 miles.

Tyres are tyres and they will always go falt. That is the way life is. No one tyre out there is made to be 100% flat resistant. Many things cause flat tyres. From small rocks to piches.

Many are using Michelin clinchers, most of the sewups/tubulars are Vittorias
I have a tour guide somewhere that lists all used, I''ll update later.
Ride Cool
Pat

Which Michelin? Axial Pros?

TIA

Probably not. Even when a team has tyres badged by a certain manufacturer, they are often specially made tyres, not the same as you or I could buy. From what I've been told, the TdF tubular Vittorias are actually hand-sewn Veloflexes, badged with Vitt brands. Nothing on these bikes is off-the-shelf.

Probably next year's or the year after's Axial Pro or it's replacement. A lot of the stuff the Pros use in cycling and other sports is experimental or specially made, even made sometimes by a supplier's competitor with the supplier's paint job and trade-name applied.
Ride the good stuff
Pat

Tyres are tyres and they will always go falt. That is the way life is. No one tyre out there is made to be 100% flat resistant. Many things cause flat tyres. From small rocks to piches.
Xa: out here in soCal, wirtually the biggest market area for bicycling (did You forget that?) the biggest problem == thorns. And all the above is NO BULL....

Many are using Michelin clinchers, most of the sewups/tubulars are Vittorias
I have a tour guide somewhere that lists all used, I''ll update later.
Ride Cool

Does anyone have a list of what everyone uses? I thought most used Tubulars, but who uses clinchers and what kinds?

Xa: out here in soCal, wirtually the biggest market area for bicycling (did You forget that?) the biggest problem == thorns. And all the above is NO BULL....

Thorns? You call that tough? A couple of years ago I was riding the famed "Hotter 'N Hell Hundred" up
in Wichita Falls, TX. 105 F with 98% Humidity and 20 mph winds. I actually got a flat when I ran over a barb from a barb-wire fence! And if that doesn't get you, the mesquite thorns that the wind blows do.

Teams seem very secretive about the actual tires they use in a given stage of a road race. I suspect that it may be that they are sometimes using a tire, OTHER than the tire supplied by their "official" tire sponsor. Comparing photos of actual races with photos from sponsor's ads: the tires don't match.

I have read that some teams will use the same set of tires for five or six stages, if they is in good shape. Yikes. Tossing a $100 pair of tires after just a week. Maybe the Pro teams need to start selling old gear on E-Bay. Up for auction: "The actual tires Lance used to win Stage 11 of the Tour de France - personally autographed".

Heck, even cheapskate 'ol me might be tempted to bid on those tires.

Does anyone have a list of what everyone uses? I thought most used Tubulars, but who uses clinchers and what kinds?



Go to the team's homepage. It should list the tyre sponsor amongst the team's backers.

Problem is a lot of them (including cyclingnews as far as i can tell) list only "Michelin" or "Vittoria" etc. most tire companies make both, how do you know then.

Team websites list the name of the company that has paid to be their listed tire sponsor. That may not be the tire they actually ride in a given race. An article about Paris-Roubaix said only a limited number of wheels and tires were tough enough to have even a chance last the entire day.

Pro teams are good at taking money from a sponsor, and then riding something else. One year, Lance had a custom time trial bike from "Brand X" repainted with Trek colors.

Cycling Plus says some Euro Pros are sponsored by makers of carbon frame bikes, and the carbon frames bikes are featured in advertising. Yet, some riders chose to ride on aluminum frames, after pocketing the sponsor's money to "rave" about the carbon models.

A Trek catalog showed Lance's bike with Bontrager clinchers. A US Postal ad showed Lance's bike with Hutchinson clinchers. I don't think Lance was riding on either of those tires.

It is probably just as well that it is so unclear which tires Pros use in races. If folks knew for sure, they would run out and put them on their bikes...forgetting that the "team car" won't be following them around all day with a spare wheel.

Teams seem very secretive about the actual tires they use in a given stage of a road race. I suspect that it may be that they are sometimes using a tire, OTHER than the tire supplied by their "official" tire sponsor. Comparing photos of actual races with photos from sponsor's ads: the tires don't match.

I have read that some teams will use the same set of tires for five or six stages, if they is in good shape. Yikes. Tossing a $100 pair of tires after just a week. Maybe the Pro teams need to start selling old gear on E-Bay. Up for auction: "The actual tires Lance used to win Stage 11 of the Tour de France - personally autographed".

Heck, even cheapskate 'ol me might be tempted to bid on those tires.


Yeah, real secretive... (http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/2005/tech/probikes/?id=simoni_lampre_cannondale/IMGP0289)

You know, if you go to Europe to watch a lower level pro race, like a Circuit de la Sarthe or a Tour of the Basque Country, you can walk up to the team bus where the bikes are sitting and look at them.
In the US at a pro race, they practically welcome you to come look...

The Hutchinson clinchers you mentioned.....Armstrong trains on the clinchers, races on the tubulars.

Yeah, real secretive... (http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/2005/tech/probikes/?id=simoni_lampre_cannondale/IMGP0289)

You know, if you go to Europe to watch a lower level pro race, like a Circuit de la Sarthe or a Tour of the Basque Country, you can walk up to the team bus where the bikes are sitting and look at them.
In the US at a pro race, they practically welcome you to come look...

The Hutchinson clinchers you mentioned.....Armstrong trains on the clinchers, races on the tubulars.


Correct. Too many conspiracy theorists around here!

Yeah, real secretive... (http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/2005/tech/probikes/?id=simoni_lampre_cannondale/IMGP0289)

You know, if you go to Europe to watch a lower level pro race, like a Circuit de la Sarthe or a Tour of the Basque Country, you can walk up to the team bus where the bikes are sitting and look at them.
In the US at a pro race, they practically welcome you to come look...

The Hutchinson clinchers you mentioned.....Armstrong trains on the clinchers, races on the tubulars.

I guess they are not secretive enough. Photos taken at the Paris-Roubaix and Spring Classics show teams covering up the labels on tires with "Magic Markers". Other articles indicate that "false" labels are put on tires and other components to please sponsors.

I guess there is nothing "deceptive" about spending thousands of dollars on catalogs listing "tire A", taking sponsorship money from "tire company "B" and then riding on "magic marker" tires from company "C". How could that be "deceptive", given that any consumer can fly to Paris the night before the Paris-Roubaix and make a personal inspection of the tires on a given bike. And attempt to read through the magic marker covering the brand markings.

The Trek publicity photos show a tire with red stripes on a Bontrager wheel with aero spokes. The actual race photos for the 2003 Spring Classics show Trek with a blackwall tire, no red stripes, and a wheel with 32 conventional spokes. Not the "advertised" tire. Not the "advertised" wheel. The mega-buck crap that Trek is peddling to you and me is not tough enough for Paris-Roubaix.

The bikes that "you can walk up and see" the night before the race are NOT always equipped the same as the bikes when they were going over the Pave. On the pave, sharp eyes would notice that the pretty 23mm tires have been replaced by big, beefy 28mm blackwalls. The original brand marking had been covered with magic marker, and a bright, clean "Hutchinson" sticker applied to the tire.

Chainstays are wider than "stock" bikes, to make room for bigger tires. Stock forks replaced with beefier forks. Yeah, there are "no secrets" in the pro peloton.

Is it deceptive to have different stuff on the bike during the race, compared with the equipment shown in the catalogs and publicity photos and "endorsement" advertisements? Only if there are people who are silly enough to think that the Trek they buy at the neighborhood LBS is "identical" to the bike that Lance rides when there is money to be made.

For the record, though they're labeled "Axial Pros", we call them Axel Rose. Only because it's funny.

Wow, this thread is doing a great Lazarus impersonation....

I guess they are not secretive enough. Photos taken at the Paris-Roubaix and Spring Classics show teams covering up the labels on tires with "Magic Markers". Other articles indicate that "false" labels are put on tires and other components to please sponsors.

I guess there is nothing "deceptive" about spending thousands of dollars on catalogs listing "tire A", taking sponsorship money from "tire company "B" and then riding on "magic marker" tires from company "C". How could that be "deceptive", given that any consumer can fly to Paris the night before the Paris-Roubaix and make a personal inspection of the tires on a given bike. And can read through the magic markers.

The Trek link goes to a pretty publicity style photo showing a tire with red stripes and a wheel with aero spokes. The actual race photos for the 2003 Spring Classics show Trek with a blackwall tire, no red stripes, and a wheel with 32 conventional spokes. Not the "advertised" tire. Not the "advertised" wheel.

When was the last time Trek had a publicity photo or catalog of an OCLV series bike and the wheels had 32 spokes? The "race time" photo shows that the Bontrager wheels have been removed, and wheels strong enough to complete the race had been substituted. So, which photos should we trust?

Sheesh..

First off, Trek pub photos will be taken with Bontrager components on them. Wanna see what Lance rides, go to Georgia, walk up to him and look. He rides HEDs when time trialing, uses a Deda Newton stem instead of the Bontrager XXXlite they put on the production bikes...Remember the Trek labeled Litespeed TT bike in '99? Or the Seven-11 Huffy that was actually a Serotta? Or the Caloi that Motorola rode that was actually a Merckx? I've got more....

BUT...when you see a photo of a bike on the tech site at cyclingnews, it's a race outfitted bike...stunning to see that Gilberto rides clinchers....so does Cuenego (http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/2004/giro04/index.php?id=stage18/41)
There's a pub photo on the cover of the new Cannondale catalogue with Cuenego on a Six/13...if you look at the Giro stage photos shows him on, a, ready?? a CAAD8. You can tell by the head tube (http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/2004/giro04/index.php?id=stage18/27)

I used to race at CATII and got stuff for free on a fairly regular basis...guess what? The free stuff was not always what the jersey said...

The point is it's not a secret...walk up and look at what they are riding.

The sponsor prefers to be on the podium, even if Hutchinson's the tire when it says "Bontrager"...

BTW..sometimes the magic marker comes out because the team is renogotiating a contract with a sponsor or has not gotten a new sponsor's product yet and the old one's not paying anymore.

Not everything's a conspiracy....

Lance just says he's riding Dura Ace, but it's really a 24 speed trip Sora..... :D

Besides, when they are riding in conditions like this, whatever works is best (http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/2004/giro04/index.php?id=stage18/39)

Just cus it says Viagra on the NASCAR hood...and "stock cars" aren't even close. Used to be until the money got bigger.{QUOTE**

Yeah, what's a carburetor? :eek: :D

[QUOTE]Reality is that the bikes and products you see in the peleton are a year at most removed from what you can go buy at your LBS. That's not true in most types of racing.

With my Mavic SL's I am looking forward to trying tubeless clinchers....some teams are running them now...if you look at the link, below on tire specs, your point is made here in that Trek shows the Madone SSL in their catalogue now..last summer they were not sure.
Trying to get one is a different issue, however... :D

I assume the TdFers are using some kind of tubulers, and I read somewhere they got a new set every day. So, how come so many flats? In the TTT didn't Julich (Credit Agricole) flat (not that it hurt them much)? And didn't one of Telekom's riders flat as well? Then today, stage 8, Vinokourov (Telekom) flatted out of todays phenomenal breakway.

Is somebody throwing tacks on the road? If not, I think I'd sacrifice a couple of grams and get a tire that would consistantly last, say, 100 miles.

To answer your question, many of these guys ride on 19's...you probably have a 700x23 for example...you can typically buy a 700x20 but it's harder to find thinner tires, mostly because the buying public cannot afford to spend $$ and get a flat a week...even in tubulars, Conti makes a 700x22 that you will typically find at Performance or your LBS...Vredestein's Fortezza tubular is a 700x21...obviously, the thinner the tire the less rolling resistance, but you lose a ton of durability and a pro team really does not care about that..

Example...note the tire specs (http://www.cyclingnews.com/teamtech04.php?id=tech/2004/probikes/madone_ssl_armstrong)

To answer your question, many of these guys ride on 19's...

Where does anyone ride on a 19? On a wood track? In a time trial? The typical setup for the Paris-Roubaix had riders using 24mm tires in front and 28mm tires in back. Some riders had to use modified bikes, because the "stock" bikes were a tight fit for 28mm tires.

A 19 can have advantages in a high speed time trial due to slightly less air resistance. A typical 19 can have MORE rolling resistance than a typical size 23. I doubt you will see many guys in the Tour de France using anything smaller than a size 23, except in a short time trial.

But, as discussed earlier in this thread, the only way to know for sure, would be to make an inspection of Lance's bike from six inches away just after he finishes a stage. With a set of calipers.

Where does anyone ride on a 19? On a wood track? In a time trial? The typical setup for the Paris-Roubaix had riders using 24mm tires in front and 28mm tires in back. Some riders had to use modified bikes, because the "stock" bikes were a tight fit for 28mm tires.

A 19 can have advantages in a high speed time trial due to slightly less air resistance. A typical 19 can have MORE rolling resistance than a typical size 23. I doubt you will see many guys in the Tour de France using anything smaller than a size 23, except in a short time trial.

I just have to chuckle at every post, Alan....

Paris Roubaix is not the "road"...it's one freakin' race that teams make HUGE HUGE changes to their bikes to ride. Saeco actually added a Headshock to their road bikes year before last...

Ummmm Lance rides a 19 in a tubular....there are others. You appear to have a lot more time than me, so check around.
Cuz it's pretty apparent when you start asking and answering your own rhetorical questions, then making a setup for one race the standard for all races that your knowledge is lacking here...

Didja look at the tire spec link, or just start typing?

Enjoy... :rolleyes:

Cycling News posted a photo of the rear wheel and rear tire of Lance's bike for its July 7th, 2004 "Tech News", showing Lance's bike, as used in Stage 3 of the 2004 Tour De France.

This is the wheel setup USPS used not just in the Tour De France, but also in the Tour of Flanders, Gent-Wevelgem, and Paris-Roubaix. A custom-made wheel (not sold to the public by Bontrager) with a beefy 400 gram rim, 21.5mm wide, with zero dish, with 32 straight gauge spokes. A beefy tire, that in the photo appears to be about 25mm in size. USPS is not gonna send its riders down a rough stretch of road on a tiny 19mm tire mounted on an ulta-light rim.

Someone wanting the ride the exact wheel Lance road in Stage 3 of the TdF shouldn't bother going to their Trek dealer. This wheel is not for sale by Bontrager. Interestingly, it is similar the "standard" wheels used in the Tour de France back in the '60's. Those also were built with 32 spokes or 36 spokes, and had close to zero dish. Not the pretty 14 spoke mega-buck wheels shown in catalogs.

I have been using 32 spoke wheels on my Trek OCLV for the past five years or so. The penalty in added weight is small. The benefits of a wheel that stays true on any kind of road make up for a few extra grams of weight.

Roadwarrior, you first claim Paris-Roubaix was not a "road race" and THAT is why USPS chose not to use ultra-light wheels and 19mm tires in those races. I suppose you will next claim that you have personally raced in the Tour of Flanders, Gent-Wevelgem, and the Tour de France, and those races are not road races. What is in your crack pipe?

Is the advice you give customers at your bike store as goofy as the advice you post here? You should put the name of your store in your posts. Your customers deserve fair warning.






www.cyclingnews.com/photos/2004/tour04/tech/?id=usps_stage3/CN-TDF04-Tech36_LA_trek

Roadwarrior, you say Paris-Roubaix is not a road race? Thanks for your always interesting posts. Goofy, silly, but interesting.

Cycling News posted a photo of the rear wheel and rear tire of Lance's bike for its July 7th, 2004 "Tech News", showing Lance's bike, as used in Stage 3 of the 2004 Tour De France. (Roadwarrior - the Tour de France is a "road race").

Same setup as USPS used for the Tour of Flanders, Gent-Wevelgem, and Paris-Roubaix. A custom-made wheel (not sold to the public) with a beefy 400 gram rim, 21.5mm wide, with zero dish, with 32 straight gauge spokes. A beefy tire, that in the photo appears to be about 25mm in size. USPS is not gonna send its riders down a rough stretch of road on a tiny 19mm tire mounted on an ulta-light rim.

Someone wanting the ride the exact wheel Lance road in Stage 3 of the TdF shouldn't bother going to their Trek dealer. This wheel is not for sale. Interestingly, it resembles the "standard" wheels used in the Tour back in the '60's. Those also had 32 spokes or 36 spokes, and had close to zero dish. After fifty years annual "advances" in technology, when the going gets tough, it is the "old school" technology that folks trust.




www.cyclingnews.com/photos/2004/tour04/tech/?id=usps_stage3/CN-TDF04-Tech36_LA_trek


Dude....Paris Roubaix (which I have actually seen live and ridden pieces of, have you? as well as having RIDDEN much of the Tour of Flanders and Ghent-Wevelgem because I LIVED there) is special due to the roads they use. You know exactly what I mean....and that special wheel was used on how MANY stages?

Second, I can get those rims and have wheels built just like those w/o a problem....by the guy that laughed when he saw your Sora posts....who's best friend may have, indeed, built some of the wheels in your link.

But I don't need them...since you "get passed by rollerbladers" neither do you.

And if you go back and look at the post to which you responded, you proved my point. If you have a good wheelbuilder they can get and build you anything you want, any way you want. To want to walk into a bike shop to buy a stock wheel like that, is laugable.
The point is that nobody would want a wheel like this because it is built for a particular reason, like a CAAD7 with a different headtube to accomodate a Headshok.

So when you see that someone rides a 19 tubular, that does not mean that they ride it in Paris-Roubaix. Or in stage 3 of the Tour de France. That is laughable. If you believe that, you are VERY VERY naive.

I love your posts...they make me smile.

This is like people that think because they own Nike golf clubs, they think they are playing with the same clubs as Tiger Woods...

A 19 can have advantages in a high speed time trial due to slightly less air resistance. A typical 19 can have MORE rolling resistance than a typical size 23. I doubt you will see many guys in the Tour de France using anything smaller than a size 23, except in a short time trial.

Alan, we are just trying to educate you....the two ways to reduce rolling resistance.... (http://www.sheldonbrown.com/tires.html) Click on the "rolling resistance" tab.

Honestly, your Sora equipped bike has as much to do with a racing bike as your personal car does to Jeff Gordon's Daytona winner...

BTW...your comment about what YOU doubt you'd see...also wrong. Most racing tubulars are 22,21, or 20, but the 19 is a little hard to find. Take a look at Performance or Nashbar's sites and look at the run of the mill tubulars...here's an example (http://www.performancebike.com/shop/profile.cfm?SKU=15949&subcategory_ID=5420)
Here's another... (http://www.bicycletires.com/tek9.asp?pg=products&specific=jocrnrq8) These are 19's...

Leonard Zinn, as always, cuts through the mumbo-jumbo, and explains things clearly. Which has less rolling resistance on rough pavement, a 19mm tire at 140 PSI, or a 23mm tire at 90 PSI, for a "light" rider?

Zinn explains that the 23mm tire at 90 PSI will have less rolling resistance on rough pavement because every "time you deflect the bike and rider up and back, it costs you energy, as opposed to absorbing (the road shock) into your tire. This is the same reason that suspension makes a mountain bike ...faster on rough terrain."

Zinn also says that lighter Pro riders, on rough roads, ride at PSI levels of 90 PSI to 120 PSI, not the 140 PSI or 160 PSI levels seen on a smooth track. Better shock absorption and less rolling resistance.

Is what Pro are doing on the road contrary to someone's abstract mathematical construct? Well, they ride in the real world, not the laboratory.

Tufo makes quite a few 19mm tubulars in their Pro and Lite line, they even have an 18mm in their Elite line for TT's and track racing.


Yeah, there are lots of cool tires out there...like the Conti Olympic, a 19mm tire for track racing that will set you back a cool $300ish per tire. But the typical bike shop's not going to stock this stuff and people that think because they are riding a Madone SL are riding "Lance's bike" as they take it out of the bike shop are dreaming.
We stock Tufos and have several tires in the $100 per tire range, but they do not move like a Conti 3000, or a Michelin Pro Race. So when I say they are hard to find, it's not that they do not exist. You just have to look around a bit to find them (or have your shop order them for you). Conti makes a race only tire (name excapes me right now) very soft compound, I think it's a 20, and they state without any hesitation that this tire is good for about 1000 miles (not a tire you want to use everyday but might give you and edge on raceday). And it will take very high pressure.

Alan...take a deep breath and think for a minute...common sense would tell you that a professional that gets everything for free (so flats are not an issue, they have lots of wheels ready to go) would want the lowest rolling resistance possible so more speed can be achieved more easily. Since it is a fact that they ride thinner tires, and the "race" tires made by most companies for the "common man" are 20's or 21's, why would they put on a tire that is harsher to ride, has more rolling resistance (according to you), and gets flats more frequently?
Also....because you look at a website that says that "Cuenego rides this, Lance rides that, and Bettini rides the other thing" does not mean that they will not customize their bikes for certain stages or particular races(not counting his TT bike, at last count I think it was two totally separate frames Lance rode in last year's Tour and each was customized for the vagarancies of a particular stage). So to answer the original question, the reason pros get a lot of flats is because they ride thin tires at high pressure because they offer less rolling resistance. And because they can...
I ride Vredestein Fortezza Tricomps at 150 pounds on Mavic SSL's and came off Michelin Pro Race and I can tell you that I can FEEL the difference in rolling resistance at 30 pounds additional over the Michelins...these are closer to the tubulars I used to race on at 180-190 pounds...

Phonak (or was it CSC) rode 19mm tubulars in the time trial
last year and they had more flats in that stage
than any other team.
$300 for a tubular? geez silk Dugast's aren't that much.
nor are NOS Clement seta silks. . .

marty

Zinn spends a lot of time in the "real" world. He rides himself. He spends time with guys who ride. His testing of tires that shows that on a rough surface a 23mm outperforms a 19mm tire matches real world evidence. His description of what happens to a 19mm tire at 140 PSI on a rough road boils down to a series of crashes. The tire slams into a bump. Bounces up. Slams into the next bump. Bounces up. This is not "rolling"...this is pogo-sticking. The bigger tire stays on the road, and continues to roll forward.

Assuming that forward progress, not bouncing up and down, is the rider's goal, the riders who refuse to use skinny, high PSI tires in road races are correct. Zinn reports that the Pros who were riding as high as 120 PSI on rough roads were doing so only if they had pinch flat problems. (By the way...news flash for folks living in a cave the past fifteen years...on rough roads, many Pro teams are riding on clinchers). If they were not having pinch flat problems, some Pros were riding as low as 90 PSI. Again, not guys who hang out in the lab. Guys who ride about 2000 hours per year.

As Zinn also points out, a wooden track is a different sort of test for a tire. A 19mm tire at 160 PSI can work well on a smooth wooden track. But, most of the roads in Houston don't merit the word "smooth". There are roads in France, Spain, and Italy, used in bike races, that in the USA would not merit the word "road".

who pinch flats their tubulars???

There's a pub photo on the cover of the new Cannondale catalogue with Cuenego on a Six/13...if you look at the Giro stage photos shows him on, a, ready?? a CAAD8. You can tell by the head tube (http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/2004/giro04/index.php?id=stage18/27)



To me that was the most dissappointing thing about the Six13 frame. (I sold my frame...makes me wonder if the guy I bought it from swapped in a CAAD 8 frame too). CAAD 8 vs Six 13 is a debate the Six13 seems to be losing at Weight weenies.

I still think nobody does Aluminum as well as Cannondale for the price. Some say their frames are expensive, but I can get a R900 with the Veloce Components I want and a CAAD 8 frame for not a lot of money really. We'll is a lot of money, but definitely cheaper than building it myself.

To me that was the most dissappointing thing about the Six13 frame. (I sold my frame...makes me wonder if the guy I bought it from swapped in a CAAD 8 frame too). CAAD 8 vs Six 13 is a debate the Six13 seems to be losing at Weight weenies.

I still think nobody does Aluminum as well as Cannondale for the price. Some say their frames are expensive, but I can get a R900 with the Veloce Components I want and a CAAD 8 frame for not a lot of money really. We'll is a lot of money, but definitely cheaper than building it myself.

To a point I agree with you...but being in the "biz" I have access to a lot of equipment and it is economically easy to ride whatever I want to....and I selected the Six/13 because it gave me the performance I want from all "them years" of riding top stuff and it is comfortable.

But I have a CAAD7 sitting on the floor of my office collecting dust.....60cm frame....

Best bargain in the bike biz right now is an R700...hands down...

My experience at weight weenies is there's a whole lot of people who read about frames in a magazine and take it as the gospel...and do not have THAT much experience riding different bikes..

Buy what feels good, not what somebody's riding in the Tour or on a magazine, or certaintly not out here... :D

who pinch flats their tubulars???

Leonard Zinn??? :D ;)

Zinn's fourth book on bikes, bike design, and bike maintainance will be published soon. His publisher could have saved a fortune by firing Zinn and just collecting all the "free" wisdom being given away here by the folks who are SURE Zinn is wrong.

The "Bike Forums" version of the book could be called "What You Can Learn About Bikes for Free at Bike Forums". The publisher would need to include a disclaimer stating "The advice in this book is not worth what I paid for it, which was nothing. This book is for amusement purposes only".

Zinn's fourth book on bikes, bike design, and bike maintainance will be published soon. His publisher could have saved a fortune by firing Zinn and just collecting all the "free" wisdom being given away here by the folks who are SURE Zinn is wrong.

The "Bike Forums" version of the book could be called "What You Can Learn About Bikes for Free at Bike Forums". The publisher would need to include a disclaimer stating "The advice in this book is not worth what I paid for it, which was nothing. This book is for amusement purposes only".

Wow, he wrote an entire book on rolling resistance. Zinn knows more than every top line pro mechanic, every major professional rider in the world, people whose very existence depends on being fast and doing it with the least amount of effort....and he wrote an entire book about this...all these engineers and mechanics and cycling pros who have been believing the opposite since DaVinci invented the bike...amazing...

High pressure tubulars and clinchers are passe'....I'm going to switch out my wheels for a set of 35's like they use on a hybrid so I'll be quicker...then maybe I'll be able to keep up with the rollerbladers....more tire on the ground...faster...

doing a search on aj and google I could not come up with any articles about these gems...maybe a link??? I'd like to read it myself as all we have to go on is your INTERPRETATION of what he wrote.

Thanks for my morning chuckle.....

I wish I had Zinn's book(s) when I was back building, racing, and doing the mechanic thing with motorized two wheelers. I might have won more than the 50 or so races, collected more than the 8 championships, and set more than the half dozen track records on both dirt and pavement. I wouldn't have wasted all that time mentoring under mechanics who had all those national and world level event wins and championships. <sigh>

I'll guess I'll never know how good I might have been :(

Some of us "freebie" posters have OK resumes too, and some of us still read the information on this board with open eyes and ears because we know that we don't know everything, and that knowledge is a good thing, whether you pay for it or not.

Like I said in my first post, LZ's a bright guy who's often correct but bright guys get it wrong sometimes. If they get it wrong a lot they are called economists. If they convince people that total BS is right they are called Heaven's Gate.

It's somewhat schitzo that ABH's so foaming-at-the-mouth skeptical of manufacturers (in it for the money) but is first in line to drink a columnist's (in it for the money) Kool-Aid without question. ABH, 100 word essay please: If writing books makes you 100% right than please reconcile the many works of Rush Limbaugh and Al Franken.

Great post...