Road Cycling - campy -vs- shimano

Hi! I'm new to this thing so pardon me if I'm screwing someting up. I did a search and couldn't find anything on this - can't believe no one's brought it up yet...

Anyway, I'm planning to build a bike on a steel frame. I've been riding old Ultegra and have been perfectly happy, but I only buy a new bike once every 12 years, so I'm wondering about campy instead. I've ridden campy before but that was pre STI or even indexing...

BTW, it's a road bike, and I'm leaning to Daytona (or Veloce if there's no difference) -vs- Ultegra (or 105...)

Originally posted by Crash Whiplash
Hi! ...I'm screwing someting up. can't believe no one's brought it up yet...

AAAARRRRGGGGHHHHH!!!! NOOOOOOOOOO!!!

Um, ...
We don't debate that here. I'm pretty sure it's in the guidelines somewhere. It MUST be in there somewhere.

D'OH!!

Shimano's good
Campy may or may not be better, depending on which you favor.

I think that just about sums it up. Right everyone?

That question cannot be answered.

Which colour is better - red or blue?

I figured about as much. Thanks!

If you don't know which to go with, try a little of both on the bike :)

Why don't we try this.. what is better...

ford or Chevy ?
Canon, or Nikon ?
Cheddar, or Jack ?

This is just gonna get pointless.... they are both good...

Jeff

There is no correct answer to this question.. If you have specific questions about campy or shimano feel free to ask those, but not a comparison. Both are good choices..

Some lbs dont know how to work on campy,i've asked.I am looking at new bikes and will stay with shimano because what little i know about bikes is with shimano.

Thanks everybody so far!

What prompted the question is I heard rumor that new shimano is less durable than the older stuff (this from a bike mechanic at a local shop) who also said campy was built to closer tolerances, meaning they aren't as smooth running as shimano out of the box but end up lasting longer...

So the criteria I'm looking for is: which is smoother, or more quiet running? and, Is there any fear that shimano is not durable?

Like everyone has said both are built well.. but if you are looking at veloce compared to ultegra.. you are going down in quality.. centaur is probably a closer match.

Well no secret Shimano parts in average last much less than Campy.

Shifters and cassettes on average will far outlast Shimano.

But it is all personal preference. There are hardcore Shimano and Campy fans all over and they will never change.

Bottom line is it is the rider that makes the bike go around.

I suggest you ride bikes with either brand of components fitted and see which you prefer.
Some prefer the STi Lever feel to the Ergo Powers (in terms of comfort)
others prefer the light action of the shimano components, other the more positve Campy feel.
some like the understated look of Shimano, others the jewl like lustre of Campy.

The real difference will only bee felt when you start to compare the lower end of either company's offerings. I personally feel that Campagnolo produces better low end components i.e. Xeon, Mirage, Veloce, than Shimano

The Shimano 105, Ultegra and dura-ace are roughly equivalent to the Campagnolo Veloce, Centaur, Chorus and Record.


I saythis because Chorus is essentially the same as Recors except for some Titanium axles andcarbon bits here and there. no difference in functionality.

According to the folks at 'Bicycling' magazine, Lennard Zinn and others who are/should be in the know, the pinnacle is the Campy Record gruppo. After the Record gruppo, the Campy Chorus and Shimano Dura Ace are equivalent, as are the Ultegra and Centaur and on down the line.

The major difference between the Campy and Shimano systems is that a Campy shifter or derailleur can be repaired and a Shimano cannot. Wear out a part on a Campy and replace the part. Wear out a part on a Shimano and replace the derailleur or shifter or whatever. A recent response from Shimano on Zinn's Tech Q&A column at www.velonews.com spelled this out very plainly. The Shimano U.S. manager responded to a Q from a reader stating that he must replace his left-hand Dura Ace shifter because a return spring had broken. Not only could the spring have been replaced if it were a Campy shifter, he could rebuild any part of the shifter he wanted and change back and forth between 8, 9 and 10-speed (althought I can't imagine why).

This said, both are very high quality systems, with, perhaps, a small edge to Campy. But, having riden on Campy since the dawn of time (over thirty years, anyway) I am stuck and don't wish to change. And those graphite component parts are really flash looking. But you can't go wrong with either system. Just get the best you can afford. And Enjoy!

I would be careful...I installed Campy on a frame made in the orient and it was rejected....threads swelled,shifted as if it had a mind of its own, frame started to shudder, paint peeled. I believe it is like a mixed marriage...beware!

OK. I'l give my opinion. I like the shimano hoods better...

Campy hoods are OK...but I prefer Shimano shifting.

I rode Shimano for years. With newer bike I got campy. Will never go back. Love the campy. Shimano is good. But campy is better...in my opinion.

Interesting... I started Campy, went to Shimano and love it. I will stay Shimano, and never go back to Campy. All personal choice, pick the shifting type(ergo vs sti) you like.

This following information came from: http://www.bikyle.com/RoadStuff.htm

This information in the past at another forum was meant with some extreme resistence, please these are not my opinions just those of Kyle bicycles.

Mileage Expectations ~
In our experience, you can expect roughly the following mileages on your Shimano road group before you need to start replacing primary parts. High stress areas such as brake pads, chains, cassettes, headsets, shifter springs, and bottom brackets will need to be replaced more frequently. Items like brake calipers and cranks may need replacing less frequently. Please consider these numbers as rough guides; an experienced bicycle mechanic can evaluate your equipment much more accurately.

Dura Ace= 20,000

Ultegra = 10,000

105 = 6,000

Tiagra= 3,500

Sora = 2,500


Mileage Expectations ~

In our experience, you can expect roughly the following mileages on your Campagnolo group before you need to start replacing primary parts. High stress areas such as brake pads, chains, cassettes, headsets, shifter springs, and bottom brackets will need to be replaced more frequently. Items like brake calipers and cranks may need replacing less frequently. Please consider these numbers as rough guides, an experienced Campagnolo mechanic can evaluate your equipment much more accurately.

Mirage = 8,000 miles

Veloce = 18,000 miles

Daytona = 30,000 miles

Chorus = 40,000 miles

Record = 50,000 miles


Please go to the Web site for more details on the groups and their construction.

Regarding shifting types, what does "ergo vs sti" mean? Duh! :p

Ergo power is Campagnolo's brake /shift lever integration system. It comprises a paddle lever mounted next to the brake lever which when actuated downward creates an upshift.
The downshift lever is mounted in tandem, behind the brake lever.
The brakelever does not swivel.

STi or Shimano Total Integration, is a tandem lever arrangement where the whole brakelever assembly swivels inward to creat a downshift. A small paddle lever mounted in tandem behind the brake lever actuates the upshifts.:crash:

:beer:

Have ridden Ergo (Campy) for so long that I couldn't get a good evaluation of a ti frame I was trying out as I had to concentrate too much on how to shift STi (Shimano) in the short hills of the test loop. Guess we are creatures of habit.

Anyone wanting to know just about anything about Campy gear can go to www.campyonly.com and find just about anything. History, rumors, etc. A good site if you are Campy inclined.

But, my real question is for Crash Whiplash. What have you decided after all these answers? Is it Campy or Shimano for you? Let us know.

These are ridiculous. How can you even give rough estimates like this? You need to say 10,000 shifts per STI or Ergo, etc. Mileage effects hubs, bb's, chains, teeth but saying entire groups last for X miles is wrong. I can see why this was disputed.

How do you get 10,000 miles more out of Record over Chorus considering they are the EXACT same group except for the fact Chorus has heavier, more durable parts on it? And 10,000 more miles? That is at least an entire year of riding/racing for most amateur racers and at least 1/2 the season for a pro. Just that alone shows how inaccurate these numbers are.


Originally posted by froze


This information in the past at another forum was meant with some extreme resistence, please these are not my opinions just those of Kyle bicycles.

Mileage Expectations ~


Dura Ace= 20,000

Ultegra = 10,000

105 = 6,000

Tiagra= 3,500

Sora = 2,500

Mirage = 8,000 miles

Veloce = 18,000 miles

Daytona = 30,000 miles

Chorus = 40,000 miles

Record = 50,000 miles

This has been great feedback! Thanks to everyone who responded and my appologies to everyone who's sick of the debate!

I've got to go out and ride examples of each to know anything. I've ridden my old ultegra 600 for years now and have only replaced a chain, a chain ring, gear cluster, and a bottom bracket, so I've really got no complaints. I have fond memories of an old steel bianchi I had with triomphe parts. I loved that bike (it was stolen from outside a bar I was at) and I'm really wanting to go campy, and probably will, but I like to think I'm rational....

I stick with shimano mostly because it's cheap and available. Hee hee...Sounds like something else...


I recommend Campy since you keep a bike for so long. You can rebuild campy stuff, and it consistently lasts longer than Shimano..However I don't think it lasts as dramatically longer as those numbers posted indicate.

Plus, Campy and steel, steel and Campy....C'mon!!

Oh dear, my group-set must be worn out then?

In our experience, you can expect roughly the following mileages on your Shimano road group before you need to start replacing primary parts. High stress areas such as brake pads, chains, cassettes, headsets, shifter springs, and bottom brackets will need to be replaced more frequently. Items like brake calipers and cranks may need replacing less frequently. Please consider these numbers as rough guides; an experienced bicycle mechanic can evaluate your equipment much more accurately.

Dura Ace= 20,000

Ultegra = 10,000

105 = 6,000

Tiagra= 3,500

Sora = 2,500




I only just replaced the chain/cassette on my bike, and she had done at least 6000 miles of all weather, four seasons riding. Regular maintainence was done, though the chain was very worn (about 1/8" elongated in 12") - my fault for not watching this.
The system is Sora.
One thing I would criticise is that the Sora hubs last about 500 miles of "all weather" riding before the bearings are shot, because there is no decent seal. However, shifters, chainrings and derailleurs are fine. OK, so I admit that it is not a premiere group set (by any means) but it calls into question the "guidelines" given above.

Just my 2p worth ;)

Cheers,

Ed

guidelines are not absolute! Thepoint the poster was trying to illustrate is how long the various groupsets last relative to another when used by the same person.
I still have 105 from 1990 on my steel bianchi ( which has now been sent off to get a new coat of paint.................in 2003 Team Coast colours)
The parts are pretty worn now but I reckon the hubs have done around 20000Km.
Longevity depends on the user.
Relative longevity is an indicator of Quality

TimB - yes I agree about longevity and quality- and I certainly wasn't taking issue with froze, who posted the information found at another source. I simply don't believe that there is, for example, a factor of ten difference in longevity between the top and bottom of the Shimano range. Especially given the statement that during the "life" of the equipment parts such as:

"chains, cassettes, headsets, shifter springs, and bottom brackets will need to be replaced more frequently. Items like brake calipers and cranks may need replacing less frequently"

....it calls into question which items, from any groupset actually last the full (guide) milage here - and it is my impression that there is an attempt to make the low level stuff appear less reliable and of far lower quality than it really is. . IMO this feeds directly into the snobbery regarding equipment that exists in some areas of cycling. BUT please note, I'm certainly not accusing anyone here of this.
As an example of the cheaper equipment I quoted my experiences with the Sora group in my previous post. The stuff works - and I have knocked seven bells (and enjoyed four times the mileage expectations) out of it in all weather... and it still works!

Anyhow, didn't somebody say that "Its not about the bike"?

Great debate!


Ed