Commuting - Scared for Safety

Ok,

I've got it 99% figured out that i CAN ride to work one way or another ( still working on being able to bring my good bike inside) and if not I have gotten enough advise that I think I can lock up an "OK" bike and leave it.

Now the next problem:

Alot of you commute through busy traffic (NY or Toronto for example) but...


Here is my scary route: 2 options.


1) "Highway 20" its city route but the way I go it is a 1 lane highway going into the country with little lighting and the odd farm house. I then make a left on an even more country highway which is considered the 406. Double solid yellows in most parts and a gravel shoulder. Hardly any light what soever and speed limit of 80km/h (though cars drive alot faster) that takes me right to work I work alot of nights so I would be riding home at about midnight on some nights.

Options 2) Montrose road (which goes right into country 1 lane single yellow/double yellow and some dotted. gravel shoulder some-no lights in some parts. Then i turn on "shisler (sp?) road" this is a twisty road with again some-no lights and 1 lane for each side of the road. I then have to go through a tunnel (their is a walk way on the one side) then come out of tunnel and I'm "basically" at work.

The problem is obviosuly its a city away.

I can ride the distance. I have ridden montrose a few times in the day time. some vehicles go 120+km/h and the odd transport is scary.

Now I've been known to do some stupid things before.


Given what I said would you ride it? Or continue to take the truck ;/

No I dont really work days at all pretty much anytime between 3:30pm and 12:00pm depending on the day.

I could even take pictures of the route on my way to work if that would help.

I would face: dangerous drivers, dogs, maybe coyotes, anyone up to no good?, the odd cow? lol.

Obviously my concerns are warranted.

But I am a 19 year old lunatic so tell me is this safe?

Obviously my mother has a negative answer but I wanted to hear a yes from you guys or a no if you really think its unsafe.


CK

Lots of reflective gear, bright clothing and get yourself some GOOD lights. Several tailights may be in order.

I have a Nite Rider Digital Pro light system. Its bright, and the tailight can be seen from 4 miles away (according to their marketing). It has 16 LEDs on it, and it's blinding to look at.

Make sure you're seen.

I am more comfortable riding out in the middle of nowhere. Less cars to hit you, even if they are going faster. Plus they will likely have more time to see you if you are the only one on the road.

Sailguy is right, reflective vest, anklets, stickers/tape on the bike and a strong headlight with at least a pair of taillights.

If you have a cell phone that is good too.

(Dangling) Chad, if you're at all wiggy about these paths, find alternatives, even if you add several miles to your commute. Later, as you get more skilled and as you become more comfortable, you can take on these "scary" routes.

At least you'll enjoy the commute ... which is the #1 goal after all.

I regularly commute now on roads I would not have even considered a few years ago. But my technique has improved and I have honed my survival skills to the point where these routes are now in my comfort zone. I also have learned to illuminate myself as Sailguy suggests, to the point where I'm beginning to look like a mobile Las Vegas.

Illumination is good. Alternate routes are good. Cell phones are good. I would add that you should plan how you will react to trouble. Dogs, drunk drivers, etc.

The way you describe the two routes that you may take I would light myself and bike up like Times Square on New Years Eve. I would also recommend finding a differant route than either of these. The way you describe these routes (lighting, road conditions etc) I don't see how you could feel safe on them at midnight. Just the drunk factor alone would have me looking elsewhere not to mention the plain old A holes.

Chad, the Montrose/Main St sounds better, I'd stay away from the 406/Hwy 20 because of the volume. Or maybe try Chippawa Creek Rd. and Moyer Rd. - They might have a little less traffic and it might be a more interesting ride. The key thing is do a trial ride in daylight on a weekend when there's less traffic. You'll be able to see any bad pavement spots and other hazards, and will have an idea of how traffic reacts. Pavement width is important, most Regional roads have a white line on the side with about 2' of pavement before the shoulder. This gives you a bit of room when a big truck is overtaking you and can't swing out due to oncoming traffic. You should have a mirror so you'll know when this is happening and can squeeze over as much as possible. With lighter volume on these roads, it won't be happening very often.

Two of my co-workers bike comumute in nice weather from Georgetown to Milton on rural roads, very few problems with cars and trucks. Visibility is the most important thing! I wear a traffic vest, reflective bands on my ankles and reflectored helmet plus have reflectored fenders and panniers, plus LED blinkies front and back.

I bike commuted to Niagara College from Dain City about 25 years ago, it wasn't too bad of a ride, but a lot shorter and a lot more urban than your trip. Try it , you'll like it!

LEDs would be more effective than wearing traffic vest, reflective bands (those would be quite inconvenient since you have to change clothes alot)...

so would LEDs and relfectors on the bike be enough?

I think the higher/wider the reflective and flashing profile, with the most movement that must obviously stem from a bicycle (such as reflective material on cranks, pedals, ankles), the better.

You can't have too much.

LEDs and reflectors are not enough since they're not very helpful in determing distance and speed of the object, in my experience. If you also have reflective material on your person (jacket, helmet, etc.) then the driver can better ascertain your movement.

I wear a reflective vest, have reflective stickers all over my helmet and reflective tape all over my frame. Along with tape on all sides of my fork and cranks. The sides of my panniers have reflective stuff on them, but I would like something on the back of them also.

The brighter you are, the most visible you are to the peeps in the cages.

I always tell people, "if you laughed and pointed at me, at least you saw me."

I always tell people, "if you laughed and pointed at me, at least you saw me."

wish i can say the same thing :)

but doesn't reflective tape on your bikes make more attention for thieves?... cause now they can see your nice bikes from a distance?

i guess the bright coloured and reflective jackets make for a good idea :D

Originally posted by ShadowVlican
LEDs would be more effective than wearing traffic vest, reflective bands (those would be quite inconvenient since you have to change clothes alot)...

so would LEDs and relfectors on the bike be enough?

Not in my opinion, SV - A blinking LED is basically a point of light and on a very dark or rainy night the average driver is not sure what it is - a parked car, a pedestrian on the shoulder, something very small or...? Modern reflective gear shows up very brightly and outlines that it is a big person on a bike that needs some space and consideration.

The reflective ankle bands I use are velcroed and very easy to take on and off and don't take up much space when put away. They are highly reflective too, and give the approaching motorist the information that there is someone moving ahead of them.

Please take this into consideration when relying on only reflectors to make yourself visible.

Sheldon Brown's Article on Bicycle Reflectors (http://www.sheldonbrown.com/reflectors.html)

I think a combination of blinking lights and reflective gear puts you into the best of both worlds.

looks like i'll be stiching up some reflective tape to a velcro strip...

nice article Sailguy :D

Originally posted by pinerider
Chad, the Montrose/Main St sounds better, I'd stay away from the 406/Hwy 20 because of the volume. Or maybe try Chippawa Creek Rd. and Moyer Rd. - They might have a little less traffic and it might be a more interesting ride. The key thing is do a trial ride in daylight on a weekend when there's less traffic. You'll be able to see any bad pavement spots and other hazards, and will have an idea of how traffic reacts. Pavement width is important, most Regional roads have a white line on the side with about 2' of pavement before the shoulder. This gives you a bit of room when a big truck is overtaking you and can't swing out due to oncoming traffic. You should have a mirror so you'll know when this is happening and can squeeze over as much as possible. With lighter volume on these roads, it won't be happening very often.

Two of my co-workers bike comumute in nice weather from Georgetown to Milton on rural roads, very few problems with cars and trucks. Visibility is the most important thing! I wear a traffic vest, reflective bands on my ankles and reflectored helmet plus have reflectored fenders and panniers, plus LED blinkies front and back.




Ok thanks for all the replies.

Let me add a couple things:


I used to do 80km/h road rides a couple years ago to get myself ready for local MTB races. I haven't ridden much this year but I have no problem with distance/skill etc;

The routes I have offered are pretty much the only route with the exception of the mentioned chippiwa - moyer.

I'm coming from Montrose/hwy 20 intersection (where I live) so I think this sounds out of the way but maybe not...

FYI my employment is Canadian Tire Financial Services which is right on the corner of the 406 and shisler rd. (if anyone else has any ideas for alt. routes I'm all ears) but I dont wnat to turn a 45km route into a 145km route by going all the way around into another city and back into welland.


The other thing is that on my MTB I have no problem riding in shoulder which I noticed I would be doing alot of tonight on my way.

The thing is if I go on a road bike (faster) then I wont be able to jump in the shoulder (dont think I can anyway?)

It's looking like they may accomodate me at work and let me bring my bike inside.

If this is the case I can use the Kona Caldera I ride now for that and later this year I'm going to get a new Bianchi (at the end of season anyway) so when that happens it will be even quicker.

As I stated in another post I dont know if I wnat to do this on a beater bike though its possible.

Again I really appreicate the responses I think I will turn myself into a x-mas tree as suggested.

Anyone know where to buy the velcro reflrective tape? Will Canadian tire carry it?


Thanks again!
CK


ps. this forum is great very glad I stumbled on it. Such a diverse crowd....K-mart fans right up to full carbon rides... Love it!

Yes, Canadian Tire sells reflective velcro strips, as does MEC and probably most LBS's. CTC also sells the adhesive reflective strips for your bike, helmet etc.

I'm not there, but basically, busy highways don't frighten me, and I feel very comfortable on them in daytime.

Equipment required:

- A mirror : I now use a helmet mirror (Cheap one, available at Canadian Tire). It sticks on any helmet with a smooth plastic surface (i.e. not on many Louis-Garneau). It helps you see what's coming behind you, prepares you for surprises (like vrooming motorcycles and trucks) and shows you that most people give you plenty of space and/or slow down. More importantly, it also shows you if a car seems to be coming through you. Great way to increase your comfort.

- Some visible gear, like the red and white reflective band I have added on my rear fender (like trucks have : improves visibility a lot in twilight). Light colours, reflective vest, triangle that you wear on your back (or on the bike), panniers with brignt colours and good reflective stripes are all ways to increase your visibility

I understand that your return commute will be at night. There, a lot depends on the level of traffic at midnight, and especially its behaviour.
To the above, add:
- A decent headlight. For road cycling, you need anything decent, but you don't need anything especially bright. In spite of what it looks, a generator with a good headlight like the Lumotec or Bisi -even with only 3 W -- gives plenty of light on the road.
- Taillights. Bright large taillights. Preferably 2 of them, so if one stops working, the other will still glow in the dark. I have some Vistalite 5-LED Nebula, which are great, providing the batteries are fresh. If you have money to burn, get a NiteRider battery headlight and taillight. Their taillight is said to be very powerful. Another good LED taillight is the Reallite, although the bracket seems to be weak.

- Reflectors At http://www.bikexprt.com/bicycle/reflectors/index.htm , John Allen has a great article that basically says that you should get one or two large SAE (automotive) reflectors, preferably amber, because it reflects lights better than red. Besides, the automotive reflector reflects the light in a shallower angle, which is not good for kids riding in circles, but is exactly what you need on the road. Most provinces and states require at least one red taillight and/or red reflector (I think it's either light or reflector in Ontario), but nothing prevents you from adding amber reflectors to that. And place them low, where the cars' headlight will beam.

- Reflective vest (?), anke bands, pedal reflectors, etc. all help.


P.S. Especially for the night ride, it may be a good idea to double check traffic on both roads and to see if there aren't any alternates. Also, if all traffic is caused by a plant whose shift ends at midnight, it might be wise to delay your return by 15-20 minutes to avoid most of the traffic.

Regards,

Again more great info.

Much appreciated.


Now this is going to sound bad coming from a 19 (almost 20) year old guy BUT.


The back country highway this goes through has some "sketchy" people living along it.

If I were in Texas I'd pack a 45 and not complain.

Up here thats the worst thing I can do. Anyone had any run ins with "weirdos"


CK

*This is an honest question and something that is sincerely troubling me.

That's OK. My commute runs through Surfers Paradise, which has the lowest average IQ of any locality in the known universe (fact). However, on a bike you should be OK. It's not the same thing as walking. Best advice I can give is stick to the road and avoid any off-road paths in that area - especially at night.

I ride about 10 miles of unlight single carriage-way country road with a 60 mph (100 kph?) limit on it. I know a lot of people speed on these roads. Like everyone else says, I light myself up really well, not just with really bright lights but flashing lights and ankle reflectors to make sure I'm identified as a cyclist, rather than a motorbike in the distance.

I generally don't see many people who stop to give me hassle, but I had a white van driver swerve onto my side of the road with no obvious purpose other than to scare me. I make sure I've got my mobile on me, and that I know where the (infrequent) houses are on the route, so that I could describe my location more precisely if I had to.

For what it's worth, my Mum thinks I'm nuts too. Although she's been a little more easy about it since she saw just how well lit-up I am. :)

Ellie

I find wierdos are just as afraid of getting in the road as inexperienced bicyclists are. I've had a few wierdos pretend to jump out to scare me but no one has gone all the way yet. Of course if the road is deserted and you are in the middle of nowhere it might be a different story. Also, if you are going 16 mph + you pack a lot of inertia and they will probably pick up the worse end of the bargain if they try and stop you I figure.

As far as routes go, get a good large-scale map of your area and look for any tracks and trails to avoid dangerous stretches of road. Explore your route on a Sunday morning. Once you get to know every pothole and bump you will be able to concentrate more on the traffic. I use my ears a lot to decide how reckless a driver is. Have a read of "Effective Cycling" for advice on road positioning and dealing with traffic.

Chose your tops in a bright hi-vis colour, and use some thick scotchlite reflective strips. The 2"thick stripes on industrial safety wear are much more effective than the thin piping on cycling clothes.
Use one blinky light and one contant light at the rear, and one or 2 bright lights up front. You also need a proper rear reflector, pedal; reflector if you can, and glue reflective material to your forks and rear fender. Its not pretty, but it is effective.

Ive never had a problem with locals, even the inner city youth variety. Generally, you pass so fast that they cant assess you, or catch you, and even if they see you coming, they tend to disregard cyclists as of no account. Pedestrian attacks on cyclists are fairly rare.

Originally posted by MichaelW

Ive never had a problem with locals, even the inner city youth variety. Generally, you pass so fast that they cant assess you, or catch you, and even if they see you coming, they tend to disregard cyclists as of no account. Pedestrian attacks on cyclists are fairly rare.

I have to agree with MichaelW and Paul L. Pace will protect you from bad guys on foot. 15mph/24kph is faster than all but Olympians and you'll be carrying so much kinetic energy that they'd get the worst of it.

It's scarier to drive to work.

Originally posted by closetbiker
It's scarier to drive to work.

So I've been told. :D

Originally posted by chad
Now this is going to sound bad coming from a 19 (almost 20) year old guy BUT... The back country highway this goes through has some "sketchy" people living along it. .... Anyone had any run ins with "weirdos"
.



I'm at a distance, but generally, people want to leave you alone unless you bother or insult them. I have had a few close calls with dogs and one fall on a Chihuahua that ran after me, but never with humans.

Things that might be problematic:
- Parties with drunken or drugged people, who don't react like "typical" people. Riding at night, it's easier to ride into parties, over-tired people, etc. Quite frankly, at 12:00 a.m., I'm more worried about sleepy drivers (you can see their erratic behaviour in the mirror) than about attacks by weirdos.

- Bar closures (if you have some on your road). Our bars close at 3:00 a.m., but I think they close at 1:00 a.m. in Ontario. When bars close, there are drunk drivers on the road (unless in town).

- If you cross a zone with organized crime: pot plantations, a chapter house... AFAIK, they generally want to keep low profile, but they also want people not to mess with them. IOW, try not to repair a flat in front of the chapter house of a well-known group. Or at least, stay on the shoulder to do repairs, don't venture too far away.


If the area is problematic, a cell phone might offer you peace of mind. I don't know the plans, but you might find something cheap, or borrow a phone from your parents or... An aggressive person who sees you trying to dial 911 will fly away.

Regards,

Originally posted by mgagnonlv
I'm at a distance, but generally, people want to leave you alone unless you bother or insult them.

Agreed. I don't know if most people want to hear this. But most people are too busy doing whatever it is that they're doing to care what you're doing or to give you a hassle over it.

And beyond that, most churlish, jerk people will simply give up and move onto other things if you just ignore them. That's why I don't think it's advisable to respond to most people who want to start something with a cyclist: if you ignore them and just go about your business, they just as quickly give up and leave you alone.

I do have a cell phone but already I've "mentioned" the idea and the girlfriend/mother/etc; are all harrassing me about it.

We shall see, I'm going to wait till I get a weekend shift to do it first (on weekends I work early morning till mid afternoon) that way I will be riding first thing with no one on the road and then in the middle of the afternoon (no biggie) then if its not a problem at all, I will do another one of those and then invest in the night time equipment. *not to mention giving myself a few more weeks of nice weather to get back in shape.


It's funny I've tried running over and over again and just cant do it. I get bored, walk and then stop. Other sporst dont interest me enough to want to sign up.

Skiing and cycling are the only that keep me interested.

I do Karate sometimes and thats fun, but only hte sparring. The kata's bore me to tears.


Theirfore what I;m saying is my endurance goes downnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn hill over winter. I was out doing a loong ride today and it wasn't pleasant.



You guys are terrific I really appreciate the advise.


*I think I have a buyer for my Acura WOOHOO down to 2 cars after this one sells. Then I can work on selling the other and just drive my truck =)


CK