Classic & Vintage - No Badge Brooks

I recently acquired a B17 and it has no Brooks badge on the rear of the saddle (also, no holes to indicate there ever was one). It’s stamped “Made in England B 61” so I assume it was made in 1961. The only thing I could find on Google was a 2002 high marks on Classic Rendezvous. It would be nice to think my saddle is worth that kind of money but I highly doubt it. What's with the missing badge? (BTW, I don't need no stinkin' badges! :) )

Sure its a B17? There are a lot of knockoffs floating around.

does your saddle have a brooks logo embossed in the leather skirts ?
that 50s saddle had the old oval brooks logo

Here are some pics from the ebay auction. You can't see the back but there is no badge.
http://i23.ebayimg.com/03/i/08/be/6e/37_1.JPG
http://i7.ebayimg.com/01/i/08/bc/00/45_1.JPG

If it is a fake, they did a good job. Here are pics from the CR high marks.
http://www.classicrendezvous.com/images/Market%20highs/Brooks_B17_60s_1.jpghttp://www.classicrendezvous.com/images/Market%20highs/Brooks_B17_60s_2.jpghttp://www.classicrendezvous.com/images/Market%20highs/Brooks_B17_60s_3.jpg

Fake or not, I am more interested to know why some saddles didn't have badges. Any ideas?

o i see which saddle you mean now..
i thought you meant the 50s old logo saddle..
your saddle is in the top pictures ?

so it seems you have a 1961 B17 competition standard
i think the normal B17 is the 'champion standard'
since there are earlier models with badges, it seems 'no badge' is a feature of this specific model
perhaps a way to lower the original price ?
the rails aren't made of any strange material, right ?

try contacting the saddle scientists at www.wallbike.com
if your saddle is rare, you'd probably be better served by selling it and getting some in better condition for riding !

Yes, mine is the one on top. The only thing different about the rails is that they are painted black instead of chrome. That fits your "lower the price" theory. Thanks for the link, I emailed Wall Bike and will post their reply.

Bill from Wallingford was quick to email me back but was unfortunately unable to add anything new. He did send a couple of links that led to the 1959 and 1958 Brooks catalogs. These catalogs only have side-view pictures of the saddles and it is very difficult to see a badge on the back of the saddle. The catalogs say that the Competition is a "racier" model and there is less leather on the back as compared to the B17 Standard. There may not be enough room for a badge.

In my limited research I have yet to find a Competition WITH a badge. So until I find one, I take the stance they are not rare and the 2002 (about $675) market high was based on bidding hysteria or shill bidding. I will be happy to ride my $30 saddle until it falls apart. My apologies for such a dull ending.

yes the narrow leather bit also makes sense,
i was thinking about that too but forgot to mention it

by the way, i was poking around and i think the competition standard was the model used for the campagnolo-brooks collaboration.. it had special and rare narrow rails for a specific campy seatpost..
was this the model you saw go for a lot of money ? that would explain the high price...

60s brooks saddles are not exactly common and yours is an interesting example specifically for racing it seems... if you were to put it up with a well thought out ad i wouldn't be surprised if it went for more than you paid.. maybe even enough to buy a new brooks if you were so inclined

You have a very cool period modified Brooks saddle! It was not uncommon back "in the day" to trim a saddle (hence loosing the rear tag) scrape the surface, bend the cantle plate and punch holes and then stitch the saddle. The Italians in the Pro peloton often had theirs done by "Ottusi" who would take the leather right off the frame, do the "mods" and then hammer it back on with the large copper rivets. Ottusi modified ones have his name stamped in one or two rivets. The look was so popular that Brooks started offering saddles with the larger "hammered" rivets. The modifications are commonly referred to as "butchering", but in the kindest of tones. I have one very like yours but with the hand hammered rivets that came on an early 60's Cinelli SC that I recently picked up.

What are you going to put it on?

vjp

by the way, i was poking around and i think the competition standard was the model used for the campagnolo-brooks collaboration.. it had special and rare narrow rails for a specific campy seatpost..
was this the model you saw go for a lot of money ? that would explain the high price...



I also saw that but the CR high mark was for a regular one, not the Campy model.

vjp - The saddle is for my new winter build, a 1960 Cinelli Mod B. I will be posting more extensively about the build in the future.

Further proof Competition's are not rare - a very nice 1959 Competition is on ebay, no bids, 1 day left, you can get it for $25 delivered (assuming no other bids ;) ).

http://cgi.ebay.com/Brooks-B17-Competition-Standard-Stamped-1959-Lovely_W0QQitemZ190056612592QQihZ009QQcategoryZ56197QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem