Advocacy & Safety - Bicycle saftey story from college newspaper

From the University of Florida's Independent Alligator:

http://www.alligator.org/pt2/061128bike.php

He was stopped and ticketed last year for not using lights while cycling on campus at night and elected to attend UPD's Bicycle Traffic Safety School, a class the department has put on since 1994 for cyclists who receive a citation for breaking traffic laws.

He said the class, which lasted about an hour and a half, taught several bike laws but not how to anticipate dangers and avoid collisions.

He said it also emphasized riding on the sidewalk, a practice that is prohibited for bikes in some areas.

"They tried to sway you away from riding on the road," he said. "It was very frustrating. We were being told all of this, but motorists aren't told that bikes have a place on the road."
My god. Who the h*ll is teaching that class? Where are Florida's bicycle advocacy groups? Do they exist? :eek:

Update: Oh, yeah, there they are. Hadn't read far enough. Still sounds like a real mess, though.

the view that cyclist education is only part of the solution is spot on the money. what about all the drivers that intimidate, harass, and close pass bicyclists drivers don't think belong on the roads?

Americans are pathetically sociopathic about their personal automobile use.

the view that cyclist education is only part of the solution is spot on the money. what about all the drivers that intimidate, harass, and close pass bicyclists drivers don't think belong on the roads?

Americans are pathetically sociopathic about their personal automobile use.
I think cyclist education (done right, not telling folks to ride on sidewalk, yikes!) is most important - teaching cyclist to ride visibily and predictably (and assertively when needed) can help a large segment of cyclists (especially based on my frequent observation in the local university area here, college students).

But yes I want motorist to be better drivers to and I wish there was an easy way to address the few sociopaths that do intentionally harrass and endganger. But I don't know of motorist education can address those few.

But the former drivers, those who are not intentionally wanting to intimidate cyclists - can they be taught to stop fully at stop line and look all ways before proceeding, to not drive agressively/fast, to not tailgate, to spend more time looking out for potential hazards or other road users instead of at their in cabin entertainment/communication devices? Can education address these bad behavior? I think its worth a shot, but I don't have my hopes high that motor driver eduction can have an impact.

Al

Though the League of American Bicyclists has given Gainesville several Bicycle Friendly Community awards starting in 2003 based on the city's roadway projects and commuting statistics, Lizaso said Gainesville is not a bike-friendly city.

So the LAB gave an unsafe city Bicycle Friendly Community awards. That's silly.

I think motorist and cyclist education is the key. Motorists need to learn how to drive more safely and increase their awareness while decreasing their distractions. They also need to realize the laws and know that cyclists may take the lane. Cyclists need to get education to ride with traffic, take the lane when apropopiate, and follow the right laws.

Misguided instructors and groups which apparently encourage unsafe practices are a large hinderence, imho.

But yes I want motorist to be better drivers to and I wish there was an easy way to address the few sociopaths that do intentionally harrass and endganger. But I don't know of motorist education can address those few.

But the former drivers, those who are not intentionally wanting to intimidate cyclists - can they be taught to stop fully at stop line and look all ways before proceeding, to not drive agressively/fast, to not tailgate, to spend more time looking out for potential hazards or other road users instead of at their in cabin entertainment/communication devices? Can education address these bad behavior? I think its worth a shot, but I don't have my hopes high that motor driver eduction can have an impact.

AlI share much of your pessimism, but I do some think benefit could be had from re-educating motorists. Most of them have either no knowledge whatsoever, or are completely misinformed about the rights and responsibilities of cyclists. I think they become indifferent or even aggressive in their driving around us because of it. When they see us taking an entire lane of a roadway, for instance, they think that's illegal. Some react by "buzzing" the cyclist a hair closer then they otherwise might, to "teach him a lesson." I've seen similar reactions to using the left-turn lanes, and to riding two abreast. I think there are at least a few motorists who might change their ways if they realized that what they regard as scoff-law behavior is actually the safe and legal way for us to operate.

I share much of your pessimism, but I do some think benefit could be had from re-educating motorists. Most of them have either no knowledge whatsoever, or are completely misinformed about the rights and responsibilities of cyclists. I think they become indifferent or even aggressive in their driving around us because of it. When they see us taking an entire lane of a roadway, for instance, they think that's illegal. Some react by "buzzing" the cyclist a hair closer then they otherwise might, to "teach him a lesson." I've seen similar reactions to using the left-turn lanes, and to riding two abreast. I think there are at least a few motorists who might change their ways if they realized that what they regard as scoff-law behavior is actually the safe and legal way for us to operate.
While agressive-response-to-cyclist motorist behavior can be hair raising, aggrivating, tiresome and sometines scary, I am more concerned about motorists who are not paying attention or who break traffic laws (yes of course, agressive passing is a broken traffic law) such as not stopping where required and checking for traffic to yield to before proceeding. Those who treat cyclist badly first must be aware of cyclist - this is actually comforting.
A re-education and re-set of driving behavior is very much needed. But I don't think it needs to be cyclist-awareness specific - these practices will save health and life of all road users (motor, cycle and ped) Actually a larger number of motorist lives can be saved. It shouldn't be just cyclist pushing for this but everyone.
I think teaching motorists about rights to road can be helped thru 'share the road' type signs the graphics showing cyclist center biased. With center lane sharrows and by not placing BL stripes on roads or places where cyclists will, by roadway design (vs. due to maintenance,) may need to leave a right biased position.

Al

Motorist vs. cyclist education: All new motorists are required to pass a test, and there are already a multitude of educational courses available to help, along with additional financial incentive to take them. Therefore, inserting some bicycle-specific material into the training or the test or both would seem relatively easier than providing cyclist training given the relative lack of opportunities and incentives for such. The amount of misinformation that currently exists about the place of bikes on the road aso argues quite strongly for this.

On the other hand, there is a much larger proportion of cars on the road than bikes, meaning that any given cyclist will encounter a car more often than any given motorist will encounter a bike. That might imply that you'd get more bang for the buck training cyclists how to operate among cars than training motorists how to operate among bikes.

In terms of enforcement, my civilian impression is that many police departments are stretched pretty thin most of the time already. Even if law-breaking cyclists were ticketed in the same proportion as law-breaking motorists, that still wouldn't amount to very many cyclists. It can be reasonably argued that motorists should be given a higher proportion of the tickets, as they ususally are, because they are driving the more dangerous vehicle. However, I also believe that if cyclists were ticketed more often for their dangerous behavior, it might have a deterrent effect on other cyclists, which would mean fewer opportunities for motorists to get p*ssed off at cyclists in general, as well as hopefully bring down the collision rate (more importantly). It would also provide incentive for the ticketed cyclist take training in lieu of some or all of the fine. (Assuming the training wasn't taught by the U of F! :eek:)

However, I also believe that if cyclists were ticketed more often for their dangerous behavior, it might have a deterrent effect on other cyclists, which would mean fewer opportunities for motorists to get p*ssed off at cyclists in general,
While I agree that ticketing cyclist for illegal behavior would deter the behavior, I am having difficulty understanding what illegal behavior commonly exhibited by cyclists pisses motorists off.
For example:
-red light running doesn't impede motorist (except in rare cases where x-traffic is dangerously close and need to stop)
-very few cyclist take the lane illegally (except when parading for rights)
-I can't see that wrong way cyclists annoy motorists
-Lack of lights may surprise motorists, but does it piss 'em off

I guess what I mean is the more dangerous illegal cyclist activity is not the same illegal activity that pisses off motorists. Actually it is the legal behavior that seems to most piss off motorists.

Al

I guess what I mean is the more dangerous illegal cyclist activity is not the same illegal activity that pisses off motorists. Actually it is the legal behavior that seems to most piss off motorists.


It seems like around here (Gainesville, where I have lived since 1987) the problem doesn't seem to be so much of "pissing off motorists" as it is that the drivers could pretty much, on average, give other places in the country a run for the money when it comes to sloppy driving. When I used to drive to work more often, I would see numerous drivers reading the paper and sipping their coffee/drink on the way to work. When I took up running, the level of disregard for pedestrian (and cyclist) safety was quite apparent.

I still do a 5K-10K run just about every morning using the neighborhood sidewalks and have to be hypervigilant to watch out for people that just roll through stop signs. All they are looking for is the sign of another vehicle to deter them from proceeding. Not a lowly jogger, pedestrian or cyclist can deter these folks. To be honest, it wasn't until I took up running a few years ago that I started to pay much closer attention to the side of the road where oncoming pedestrians may be, and to the possibility that someone may be crossing in a crosswalk and that a full stop should be made prior to the crosswalk, or white line the marks where to stop prior to the sign.

It seems like around here (Gainesville, where I have lived since 1987) the problem doesn't seem to be so much of "pissing off motorists" as it is that the drivers could pretty much, on average, give other places in the country a run for the money when it comes to sloppy driving. When I used to drive to work more often, I would see numerous drivers reading the paper and sipping their coffee/drink on the way to work. When I took up running, the level of disregard for pedestrian (and cyclist) safety was quite apparent.

I still do a 5K-10K run just about every morning using the neighborhood sidewalks and have to be hypervigilant to watch out for people that just roll through stop signs. All they are looking for is the sign of another vehicle to deter them from proceeding. Not a lowly jogger, pedestrian or cyclist can deter these folks. To be honest, it wasn't until I took up running a few years ago that I started to pay much closer attention to the side of the road where oncoming pedestrians may be, and to the possibility that someone may be crossing in a crosswalk and that a full stop should be made prior to the crosswalk, or white line the marks where to stop prior to the sign.
Thats exactly it. The driving is not 'anti-cyclist/ped' by design, but sloppy, careless, disrespectful, ignorant, etc.
When I was a runner I banged on cars and had far more close calls than I ever have as a cyclist - because as a runner one must be on sidewalk and the danger of right hooks, stopping over stop line, rolling thru stops, etc. is far greater.
In lower speed/volume residential neighborhoods I ran on the street, well into it, to help avoid these issues.
Al

There is a correlation between nice year round weather and accident rates:

http://www.mcdot.maricopa.gov/bicycle/issues/IPfatality.pdf

Climate is certainly not the only factor, but there is no doubt it contributes to FL and other warm states having above average rates.

Data on rates:
http://www.ewg.org/reports/bikes/congress.html

"The national average bicycle fatality rate between 1986 and 1995 was 3.4 bicyclists per million individuals. In Florida, which had the highest bicycle fatality rate, this rate was more than twice as high - 8.8 bicyclists killed per million. After Florida, the five states with the highest fatality rates were Arizona (7.0), Louisiana (5.9), South Carolina (5.4), and North Carolina (4.5).

Among large metropolitan areas, Tampa-St. Petersburg-Clearwater, Florida had the highest per capita bicyclist fatality rate -- 9.3 bicyclists per million. Other large metropolitan areas with bicycle fatality rates more than twice the national average included Miami-Hialeah (7.7), Phoenix (7.7), Fort Lauderdale- Hollywood-Pompano Beach (7.7) and Orlando (7.1). Four of the five metropolitan areas with the highest fatality rates for bicyclists were in Florida. The metropolitan areas with the highest bicycling fatality rates tend to be newer, sprawling, southern and western communities, where transportation systems are for now biased towards the car."

Phoenix is up there with the worst FL cities and I can't say that drivers are signficantly worse than in other larger metro places I've driven or cycled. high speed/volume car centric infrastructure seems more to blame.

Al

I think a lot of drivers get their education via the Internet.

I think a lot of drivers get their education via the Internet.
Bicycle and motor vehicle?

I actually thought most new motor vehicle driver learn thru video games.

Al

... and speaking of UF/Gainesville...(please forgive me for going off)

I finished my ride on Sunday afternoon about 4:30 pm. This time of year, it is getting dark about 5:30-6:00 pm here in Gainesville. The entrance that I prefer to use (almost always) to exit and enter my neighborhood is the corner of NW 53rd Ave and NW 24th Blvd. I even go further north past my area to make the circle around to come in that entrance on my way home from work near the UF campus.

I had no clue that the following occurred that Sunday until my wife informed me of this story a bit ago:

http://gainesville.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20061128/LOCAL/211280333/-1/news

I don't know the kid, nor were there any details, but the accounts leave much to be considered...


The first vehicle that struck Rojas left the scene before police arrived Sunday evening, and police were looking for a gold-colored Nissan Monday...driver of a gold-colored Nissan Altima contacted GPD late Monday afternoon

That should be 6 pts for leaving the scene of the accident, regardless of the lame excuse. If you hear a thud while driving a vehicle, should you not stop? Come on....Gee, "I realized 24 hrs later that I may have hit the bicyclist...?" Pardon the language, but WTF? Another Einstein.


The second vehicle to strike Rojas was a 2000 Jeep driven by Andrew Nawrocki, 25, of Gainesville. In an interview Sunday night, Nawrocki told The Sun that he didn't see the cyclist until the vehicle in front of him swerved sharply, giving him no time to react.

Then perhaps vehicle 2 should quit riding up the a** of vehicle 1?


The third vehicle that struck the cyclist was a 1999 Mercury sedan driven by Marlene Austin, 67, of Gainesville. Initially, Austin left the scene, but she contacted police late Sunday night and told them she didn't know what she had hit when she left the area, Kameg said.

As I asserted earlier, Gainesville drivers have to be some of the worst in the country. Totally oblivious to their surroundings and totally unaware that a smack against their vehicle just might be the result of an impact with a body of substantial mass. Granted they were traveling at about ~35 mph or so they say, but how is that to be verified--no skid marks becuase driver 1 was unaware?

Finally...


"We're still asking anyone who may have seen anything to contact us," Murphy said.

That is a tall order considering the location and the drivers...not like they notice heavy objects impacting their vehicles--how are they going to notice anything in the distance?

While I agree that ticketing cyclist for illegal behavior would deter the behavior, I am having difficulty understanding what illegal behavior commonly exhibited by cyclists pisses motorists off.
For example:
-red light running doesn't impede motorist (except in rare cases where x-traffic is dangerously close and need to stop)
-very few cyclist take the lane illegally (except when parading for rights)
-I can't see that wrong way cyclists annoy motorists
-Lack of lights may surprise motorists, but does it piss 'em off

I guess what I mean is the more dangerous illegal cyclist activity is not the same illegal activity that pisses off motorists. Actually it is the legal behavior that seems to most piss off motorists.
I think that seeing cyclists run red lights and ride without lights at night does piss off motorists, both on principle and also for the danger factor. If the action almost causes an accident, I think it's justified.

Just the other night I passed an unlit cyclist. I thought afterwards that I may not have given him enough room or called out soon enough, but I also realized that if I had seen him sooner, I would have had more time to react. Blame me for poor judgement, but blame him for not doing everything he could to help me and the other drivers passing him. It's human nature when something goes wrong to minimize your own fault and maximize that of others.

But even in general, if we say "Same roads, same rules, same rights", and then don't obey the rules, we are rightly judged as hypocrites, which by itself is enough to piss off other drivers, and rightly so.

Around here, I have not observed legal behavior causing more problems than illegal, but that could partially be differences in where we ride.

I think that seeing cyclists run red lights and ride without lights at night does piss off motorists, both on principle and also for the danger factor. If the action almost causes an accident, I think it's justified.

Just the other night I passed an unlit cyclist. I thought afterwards that I may not have given him enough room or called out soon enough, but I also realized that if I had seen him sooner, I would have had more time to react. Blame me for poor judgement, but blame him for not doing everything he could to help me and the other drivers passing him. It's human nature when something goes wrong to minimize your own fault and maximize that of others.

But even in general, if we say "Same roads, same rules, same rights", and then don't obey the rules, we are rightly judged as hypocrites, which by itself is enough to piss off other drivers, and rightly so.

Around here, I have not observed legal behavior causing more problems than illegal, but that could partially be differences in where we ride.
There is pissing off due to principle and due to impact on motorist. I was thinking more of the later. Although as you point out if near accident due to red light running, that falls under impact to motorist.
Red/stop sign running cyclist annoy/concern me far more when cycling vs. motoring. I've had a few close calls from cyclist who run in front of me, misjudging my speed or assuming I'm 'one of them' and should 'go with the flow, dude'. I've never had a cyclist run a stop/red when I am motoring - too dangerous here with 45mph arterials.

Al

I think a lot of drivers get their education via the Internet.

Bicycle and motor vehicle?

I actually thought most new motor vehicle driver learn thru video games.

Al
What I mean is, I remember seeing a story on 60 Minutes or somewhere about how you can do your drivers' education on the Internet now and much of the time it involves little more than handing over some money and taking a really easy multiple choice test.

I thought drivers ed (at least in some states) was only required if you wanted to get your license early (like at 16 instead of 17) or to get insurance discounts. I forgot what its called (learner permit?). Otherwise only a test is needed after a certain age.

Al

Holy Crap! THREE cars hit him - and two of the drivers claimed they didn't know what they had hit? Almost impossible to believe! Sounds like my worst nightmare as a cyclist.

I do what I can to be visible (2 blinkies, reflective tape everywhere, relective ankle bands, front light), but seriously, if people are that oblivious then a cyclist doesn't have a chance aside from being too blindingly bright to be ignored (something that would only fuel more road rage against cyclists).

holy crap! THREE CARS. Two didn't know what it was? Complete BS.





... and speaking of UF/Gainesville...(please forgive me for going off)

I finished my ride on Sunday afternoon about 4:30 pm. This time of year, it is getting dark about 5:30-6:00 pm here in Gainesville. The entrance that I prefer to use (almost always) to exit and enter my neighborhood is the corner of NW 53rd Ave and NW 24th Blvd. I even go further north past my area to make the circle around to come in that entrance on my way home from work near the UF campus.

I had no clue that the following occurred that Sunday until my wife informed me of this story a bit ago:

http://gainesville.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20061128/LOCAL/211280333/-1/news

I don't know the kid, nor were there any details, but the accounts leave much to be considered...



That should be 6 pts for leaving the scene of the accident, regardless of the lame excuse. If you hear a thud while driving a vehicle, should you not stop? Come on....Gee, "I realized 24 hrs later that I may have hit the bicyclist...?" Pardon the language, but WTF? Another Einstein.



Then perhaps vehicle 2 should quit riding up the a** of vehicle 1?



As I asserted earlier, Gainesville drivers have to be some of the worst in the country. Totally oblivious to their surroundings and totally unaware that a smack against their vehicle just might be the result of an impact with a body of substantial mass. Granted they were traveling at about ~35 mph or so they say, but how is that to be verified--no skid marks becuase driver 1 was unaware?

Finally...



That is a tall order considering the location and the drivers...not like they notice heavy objects impacting their vehicles--how are they going to notice anything in the distance?

the view that cyclist education is only part of the solution is spot on the money. what about all the drivers that intimidate, harass, and close pass bicyclists drivers don't think belong on the roads?

Americans are pathetically sociopathic about their personal automobile use.

What I would like to see, is more drivelicenced r education, and more often, today, in the Province of Ontario, Canada there are drivers who were LICENCED in 1942 who are undergoing their first drivers test, since they were first licenced.

Now in 1942, the province was mostly rural, The McDonald-Cartier Freeway (Highway 401), in it's first incarnation, wasn't to be finished for another 5 years, and would only handle small volumes of traffic initially. Today this behemoth at it's busiest point (Between Weston Road and Highway 400) handles 407,000 vehicles per day, the freeway is 22 lanes at it's widest. It goes through the fifth largest most populous municipality in North America, Toronto (smaller then only Mexico, New York, L.A. and Chicago).

This highway includes such oddball structures as "The Basketweave" (http://maps.google.ca/maps?ll=43.717613,-79.502950&spn=0.018092,0.036081&hl=en), click the link and check the satellite image this thing has lanes going everywhere....

This highway includes such oddball structures as "The Basketweave" (http://maps.google.ca/maps?ll=43.717613,-79.502950&spn=0.018092,0.036081&hl=en), click the link and check the satellite image this thing has lanes going everywhere....

Ahhh nothing compared to the LA freeway system. But I do have to admit that the "basketweave" was pretty unique.

Just a few observations:

- Education is a willful interaction (regardless of making it contingent upon acquiring something else)....not only as it takes place, but also the time that transpires afterwards where one "incorporates" their newfound knowledge. Not only do people forget the rules, they make decisions on the ones they remember as to how diligently they will follow them. This is a cognizant decision, and is often correlated with one's degree of "inconvenience".....and is often carried out with a flippant disregard for the consequences of the action that comes from that decision (until it's too late).

- People that get pissed off easily rationalize their own behavior. Justification is in the eye of the beholder.

- There are plenty of people who barely passed their randomly questioned drivers test.....you start tacking on standardized rules about cycling safety and their collective little heads might explode.

- There will never be a "share the road utopia".....sometimes there are problems that don't have a practical solution. Doesn't mean you can't try to improve a situation, but the world will always have their share of cynical, ignorant, fallible human beings. Get used to it.

- I'm not as worried about the uninformed, unaware but "otherwise" law abiding driver.....it's redneck Bubba who is banging his dashboard with a billy club cuz he's pissed from a bad day at work, and whose rusty stepside Dodge pickup is getting intimate with the road shoulder (that he owns) because he saw somebody in clothes he would never wear moving quite efficiently on a mode of transportation he's never considered, and whom he's convinced had a much better day than he. How do you control that? I've had more close calls with that admittedly stereotypical scenario than the former.

From the University of Florida's Independent Alligator:

http://www.alligator.org/pt2/061128bike.php

Florida, figures. Old people :rolleyes: