You hear the stories of people getting destroyed by less than attentive drivers while riding on the road...I've engaged in a few discussion concerning my trepidation at road riding...then it REALLY hits home!
Yesterday - one of my good friends and one of the members of my local riding group...one of the guys going to Moab with me at the end of the month for my bachelor party gets hit (needless to say he's not going to make it to Moab this time)!
He was riding back to work on a road bike, crossing through an intersection at full speed when a car traveling from the opposite direction cut a sudden left turn in front of him.
Bike - totaled. Top tube separated at the seat tube and head tube. Wheels mangled completely.
Rider - Busted, bruised - broken collar bone, cracked ribs. Wrecked shoulder (extent unkown). He's seeing the Doc tomorrow for a full "post emergency room" assessment.
Driver? He's fine! Maybe a wee bit shaken. In typical fashion - he was only ticketed for failing to yeild the right of way.
At least the story got coverage in the local paper - but all it shows is the car, the mangled bike and the man and woman (driver and passenger) hugging each other for "comfort".
Count me a die hard "I'll never road ride, rider".
MediaCreations
04-15-03, 05:38 PM
I hope your friend heals up soon and isn't left with any lasting injuries.
Are you going to write to the paper and get a letter in the 'Letters to the Editor" section? Tell them you were dissapointed at what you saw was biased reporting showing only the distress of those responsible for the accident. Ask them to do a follow up story telling your friends side of the story.
If they don't publish your letter or do anything about it, is there another paper in town or a radio that does talk back?
Don't let the opportunity go past without telling the real story.
Pete Clark
04-15-03, 06:57 PM
Originally posted by bikeCOLORADO
He was riding home from work on road bike, crossing through an intersection at full speed when a car traveling from the opposite direction cut a sudden left turn in front of him.
Rider - Busted, bruised - broken collar bone, cracked ribs. Wrecked shoulder (extent unkown). He's seeing the Doc tomorrow for a full "post emergency room" assessment.
Count me a die hard "I'll never road ride, rider".
This is very tragic. I hope he heals quickly.
Unfortunately, this is a common cause of accident. I have had several near-misses as a direct result of this situation. Therefore, I have learned to exercise extreme caution towards left-hand turners and anyone entering the roadway, especially when the sun is behind me. It's good that you brought up the dangers of that situation.
I feel I must reply to your comment about this incident making you a "die hard 'I'll never road ride, rider'".
My niece rides a road bike for her main form of transportation and has never had a serious accident on the road. She recently had a mountain biking accident in which she broke her neck. But that doesn't make me a "die-hard, never-ride-trails rider."
wabbit
04-15-03, 06:58 PM
Regarding the drivers, it's entirely possible they were really freaked out by the whole thing and felt terrible about what happened. I mean, it was a terrible accident and I am sure they felt bad about your friend. What exactly did the article say, though?
As for your friend, I am sure he'll be okay, but what a drag. i am sure he'll recover and be riding again soon.
bikeCOLORADO
04-15-03, 07:14 PM
First of all - it was hardly an article (see below)...barely more than a picture and a very brief blurb about the incident.
Excellent idea, writing in to the paper! - [slapping hand to forehead, "why didn't I think of that"]
Caption reads: "Close Call"...OMG! It was HARDLY a close call for my very good friend! Yes, this certainly warrants a letter to the paper!
The possibility of an accident like this is why I must appear to be a real jerk at some intersections. I don't have a horn, so I will shout at a driver who appears ready to put me in danger. When riding through an intersection, the light green, I will often point at the driver in the left turn lane. If a window is open, I will remind the driver, politely, that he/she can wait until I pass. My hand signals for turning are often emphatic. I won't just stick out my arm; I will gesture and point in the direction I'm turning. I will follow cars into parking lots after their drivers cut me off and asked those drivers why they nearly ran me over. If they apologize, I will remind them that "sorry" won't be good enough when they kill someone.
Yesterday on a ride, while I was making a left turn, a driver facing the other direction began to turn right into my path. I shouted, "Hey!" He stopped, then as he passed he slowed down and apologized. Not all drivers who endanger us are malicious. Sometimes they truly do not see us because they do not expect to see us. Most drivers, in fact, are courteous and safe. Every time I ride on the roads drivers will be patient, will give me plenty of room, will pass safely. They get waves from me.
cranky
04-15-03, 07:27 PM
Close call??? I can't believe they wrote that.
Sorry to hear about that man, I hope he gets well soon.
As far as not road riding, try to keep things in perspective. People get mangled up all the time in car vs car accidents, but that doesn't really stop most of us from driving anyways.
Guest
04-15-03, 07:30 PM
I am actually thinking about getting one of those horns like they use at football games- and using them on the street as well as on the path. I get really tired of yelling- I spend at least 15% of my time yelling myself silly on the paths and the road at cars and pedestrians. Another 10% of the time, I'm giving the finger to horny, dumb guys who have to comment on my manner of dress or something along those lines.
Sheesh!
ahuman
04-15-03, 07:49 PM
scrapes, bumps bruises?? whats the name of this paper Maybe we all should write them.. that appears to be a lightspeed on the ground bend and broken ... nothing close about that call...
I understand that the driver maybe upset (and should be).
but this thing happens a lot... and the true story should be told.
broken collar bone is not a bruise or a bump a broken $2,000 (or more) bike is not a close call.. it shakes us all and drivers should be made aware that bikers are fresh and bones... i think some drivers forget that... sorry for ranting.... i really hope your friend recovers quickly ...
K
TandemGeek
04-15-03, 08:05 PM
It's sad, but I truly don't ride around on my bicycles and motorcycles wondering "if" I'll be hit again but "when". This is the attitude that I attribute most of my street survival to as a cyclist and motorcyclist. I mentioned in another thread that I'd been hit by cars three times over the years while cycling:
1984 - Riverside Drive, Riverside, CA when a motorist in a yellow Ford Torino pulled out in front of me at an intersection where he had a stop sign and I did not. Front fork wheel were destroyed and I went across the hood of his car. Sprained wrist, scrapes and bruises but nothing broken.
1994 - Clay St, Marietta, GA when a motorist in a blue Pontiac turned left from a center turn lane across two lanes trying to beat the traffic that he was watching instead of the cyclist -- me who was actually "off the line" faster than the cars -- whose back wheel he clipped as he darted into the restaurant parking lot. Fortunately, the restaurant had a nice soft hedge along its driveway entrance that I was thrown into. Me scratched up by the bush and otherwise pretty PO'd. The rear wheel destroyed along with the seat and handlebars that got smacked down into the curbing.
1997 - US Route 41 at the "South 120 Loop" in Marietta, GA when a motorist in a white Mazda Miata passed me then made an immediate right turn into a Chinese restaurant that resulted in me doing a barrel roll across his right rear fender as I locked up my brakes and turned to avoid a outright collision with the right door. Unbelievably, the bike was fine aside from some paint scuffs and I ended up with only a scraped up leg and arm.
There have been other bicycle crashes but they have all occured because of cycling and usually involved other cyclists and that's a different thread as are the motorcycle accidents. But, back to my bicycle and car encounters, I count my lucky stars that these accidents were not any worse. More to the point of this thread, in every case the motorists were extremely upset about "not seeing me", apologetic and quick to offer help. These weren't motorists who tried to hit me or who even really saw me. In two cases tickets were issued to the motorists for "failure to yield" violations: it's the way the laws are written. In the '97 accident I was basically OK and his Miata had the majority of the damage but no citation was issued since the officer wasn't quite sure how to write it up. The latter is one of my gripes with "the system", i.e., many law enforcement officers are not well versed in understanding the rules of the road as they relate to cyclists interacting with cars.
Regardless, and once again back to the original point of this follow-up, in all three cases I've got to believe the emotional trauma the motorists experienced -- as evidenced by visible signs of shock from "running down a cyclist" -- had a profound and lasting impact on them. Hell yeah, I had my own bout with shock -- thankfully I crashed a lot of dirt bikes as a kid, had spent a few years as a fire rescue worker and EMT and had "practice" dealing with post crash feelings as a first responder AND as the crashee. So, none of this was "new" to me. But, for the motorists these were their first accidents with a pedestrian or cyclist and I've come to learn that hitting a body with a car is very different from hitting another car or objects. Don't kid yourself into thinking all motorists who hit cyclists are evil... they're not. Excluding the drunk drivers who are killing people by the thousands each year, many of the folks who hit cyclists are basically people like your mothers, fathers, friends of friends and co-workers who just screwed up and failed to look for cyclists. It doesn't make it right and it doesn't excuse their responsibilities but it acknowledges that they are for the most part your basically, somewhat flawed human beings. It also underscores how much work has to be done to make our roads safer for cyclists since so much of what needs to be done is changing attitudes about driving -- and changing attitudes is not easy.
As for me... I still ride on public roads and keep a wary eye open for motorists doing the things they do and pray that: a) I continue to "see them coming" and have time for some defensive actions to minimize the damage, b) am never hit on the tandem with Debbie aboard and, c) in the event I or we are hit we yet again "dodge the bullet" and come out with only minor dents and scatches. As someone else also mentioned, I do everything I can to be VERY visible and audible when necessary in urban riding conditions. However, I would discourage the use of the one-finger salute and cursing at drivers. That doesn't do anything to improve cyclist/motorist relations and can actually lead to escalation of tempers and more animosity towards cyclists... (stuff for another thread; I'll stop now).
Note: In the event any of you or someone you're riding with is hit by a car, after you know you or they are not seriously injured always find a place to sit or lay down after an accident BEFORE your body finally "relaxes". If you don't and you or they are standing up you could quickly find you or them face first on the asphalt - again.
Just some food for thought....
MediaCreations
04-15-03, 08:06 PM
"Gooding did not see him..." Oh poor Gooding. If it had been the cyclist that did the wrong thing do you think the report would have been so sympathetic? Puleeze!!
bikeCOLORADO
04-15-03, 09:15 PM
To anyone interested in speaking up to the paper...here's the address:
http://www.gazette.com/secdisplay.php?section=12
I'll be contributing my 2.5 cents.
TandemGeek
04-15-03, 09:21 PM
Originally posted by bikeCOLORADO
To anyone interested in speaking up to the paper...I'll be contributing my 2.5 cents.
To BC or anyone else, please cross-post your letter(s) back to this thread. I'd be interested in reading your comments to the paper.
bikeCOLORADO
04-15-03, 09:44 PM
I just submitted this:
--------------------------------------------------------
A "close call"??
Your photo and brief description of "Traffic Mishap" on Metro 3 from the 15 of April causes me GREAT concern! One of my best friends was on the receiving end of the supposed "close call" as the caption states.
A fractured collar bone, cracked ribs, a shoulder that may require surgery and a wrecked $2,000 bike do NOT constitute a "close call".
Energy conserving and environmentally friendly cyclists fight a constant uphill battle to have their legal rights and rights of way on the roads upheld. You have done a great disservice to cyclist by minimizing the impact of this motorist's failure to provide right of way AND plain failure to pay attention.
--------------------------------------------------------
As stated on the submission page...brevity get's you a better chance of being published...
Dutchy
04-16-03, 12:01 AM
Excluding the drunk drivers who are killing people by the thousands each year, many of the folks who hit cyclists are basically people like your mothers, fathers, friends of friends and co-workers who just screwed up and failed to look for cyclists. It doesn't make it right and it doesn't excuse their responsibilities but it acknowledges that they are for the most part your basically, somewhat flawed human beings.
Well said. Sometimes it is hard to remember that people who drive ARE NOT out there to kill us, unfortunately it appears that way some days.
CHEERS.
Mark
Dutchy
04-16-03, 12:05 AM
I have been hit twice and have had several near misses, and each time the drivers says the usual "sorry I didn't see you".
In a fantasy world scenario: it would be good to get up after a crash and upon hearing "sorry I didn't see you" pick up the remains of my bike and throw it at the drivers car and say "did you see that" I would never do this, but it does cross my mind.
CHEERS.
Mark
MediaCreations
04-16-03, 12:09 AM
Their pleas of, "I didn't see you" should be translated as, "I wasn't paying the required attention that is needed to be operating a motor vehicle."
Chris L
04-16-03, 02:47 AM
Originally posted by cranky
As far as not road riding, try to keep things in perspective. People get mangled up all the time in car vs car accidents, but that doesn't really stop most of us from driving anyways.
Exactly. This is something we should not lose sight of. In spite of the occasional incident, riding on the road is still pretty safe. Heck, I wouldn't be alive today if it wasn't. Personally I think too many cycling advocates serve up this whole "dangerous" argument far too liberally. It will only serve to have us banned from roads in the future, not what we want.
Chris L
04-16-03, 02:54 AM
Originally posted by Dutchy
Well said. Sometimes it is hard to remember that people who drive ARE NOT out there to kill us, unfortunately it appears that way some days.
Whether they are out there to kill us or not is simply a non-issue. An accidental death is just as fatal as an intentional one.
Originally posted by livngood
many of the folks who hit cyclists are basically people like your mothers, fathers, friends of friends and co-workers who just screwed up and failed to look for cyclists.
In that case, they are people like "our mothers, fathers, friends of friends and co-workers" who are simply too negligent to be operating a motor vehicle. I am soooo sick of hearing this "I didn't see him" garbage that I could throw up (and may well do so before I'm finished posting this). In any other facet of life, if you are responsible for someone's death, you have to prove that you performed adequately to reach a standard required for a duty of care. Why isn't this the case with drivers?
Why does nobody ever ask "why didn't you see him? What were you doing?"
NuTz4BiKeZ
04-16-03, 05:11 AM
While I agree that many drivers seem to be ignorant of cyclists I don't believe that they deliberately go out to injure people.
I think it's important to treat ALL vehicles as a possible danger and ride accordingly because we break a whole lot easier than a car does.
I never take it for granted that a car will stop to let me through an intersection and so far I haven't had an accident involving a car... several involving other objects like fences and rocks.:D
chewa
04-16-03, 06:03 AM
"The car they were driving was struck" wtf?
I take issue with your statement that you will never road ride. Is that not giving in to the threat of car terrorism?. How will things improve if all cyclists move off road? Cyclepaths become compulsory. Cylicts banned from using the road?
Think again, please.
Roughstuff
04-16-03, 06:32 AM
Originally posted by bikeCOLORADO
Rider - Busted, bruised - broken collar bone, cracked ribs. Wrecked shoulder (extent unkown). He's seeing the Doc tomorrow for a full "post emergency room" assessment.
Driver? He's fine! Maybe a wee bit shaken. In typical fashion - he was only ticketed for failing to yeild the right of way.
At least the story got coverage in the local paper - but all it shows is the car, the mangled bike and the man and woman (driver and passenger) hugging each other for "comfort".
I think its events like this that make actions by organizations like Critical Mass inevitable, as much as we may express reservations about their activities on other boards. Thirty years ago drunk driving was so widely accepted and laughed at, that it was shown on a regular basis on TV shows. Somebody is not taking the lives of cyclists seriously! To a lesser extent this is true with motorcycles. Will bike riders have to resort to guerrilla type media and political action?
Keep in mind that as you described it, 'not yielding the right of way' is the offense that was committed. The damage suffered by the bike and its rider are just due to a different size of the vehicles(?). Is this the way the law is interpreted...if any one knows the answer to that question, I'd like to hear it.
roughstuff
TandemGeek
04-16-03, 06:39 AM
Originally posted by Chris L
I am soooo sick of hearing this "I didn't see him" garbage that I could throw up... In any other facet of life, if you are responsible for someone's death, you have to prove that you performed adequately to reach a standard required for a duty of care. Why isn't this the case with drivers? ... Why does nobody ever ask "why didn't you see him? What were you doing?"
It's not always what they were doing -- although the friggin' cell phones have been changing that at a horrifying rate -- it's usually what they weren't doing and that is looking for pedestrians, bicyclists or motorcyclists.
Drivers instinctively look for the biggest risks to their safety -- objects that are as big or bigger than their own vehicle -- and smaller "threats" like pedestrians and cyclists just don't register in our car-centric world. We see cyclists when we drive because we are acutely aware of them. If you're a motorcyclist you will also more readily see other motorcyclists because you are also accutely aware of them and so on. If you're a classic car collector you'll be able to pick one out of a stream of moving traffic only from your peripheral vision.
However, when it comes to most motorists they don't walk, ride bicycles or ride motorcycles as a mode of transportation or even give it a second thought. Therefore, all three remain "invisible" to them on the road because it's an alien image that doesn't register in their peripheral vision.
This IS the attitude and education challenge that has not been dealt with and it underscores why the pedestrian, cyclist and motorcyclist advocates continue to push for publicity campaigns that stress "look for us" on the road. Of course, this is where one of my beefs comes in with the current "Share the Road" signage adopted as the US standard.... but that's another thread.
Anyway, do your best to remain visible when you ride. Don't be gutter bunnies, don't assume motorists will see you, always try to get eye lock and keep thinking about what you'd do in a "what if" situation where a car does pull in front of you. It won't stop them from doing it but it might help you modify your riding habits in a way that will improve the odds that you'll survive an encounter with a motorist.
ahuman
04-16-03, 07:51 AM
I'm not upset at the driver in this case. what upset me is the story in the paper.
close call, bumps and bruise. but the picture cleary shows a bike that is destroyed. after reading the short story I was glad that the biker was not
hurt.. if bikecolorado had told us the true story. it would have been forgotten.
the newspaper clearly miss the big picture and should be made aware of the damage they have caused. we should inform them that this close call happens a lot. thanks for the address of the paper I will be sending them a letter.
I will also send one to this post as soon as I can... I wish we could send them this thread..
hayneda
04-16-03, 08:05 AM
For those few of you that say you will never ride on the road "because it's too dangerous," why do you continue posting to the Advocacy section? If you a so severely suffering from cyclists inferiority complex (as defined by Forrester, et. al.) that you've sworn off road riding, why bother with advocacy?
I don't mean to inflame, but I see way too much of this "toy bicycle advocacy" whereby so-called cyclists promote getting us all kicked off the roads to substandard and less safe (by the governments own statistics) bike paths.
Real bicylce advocacy is making sure that all roads are designed for safe use by all vehicles including bicycles. Wide outside lanes, and smooth paved shoulders on highways are all that is needed. Bike paths are for children.
Dave
Who rides on the road in the vehicular cycling manner, rides in excess of 10k miles a year, and does not own a car.
Ritalin
04-16-03, 08:11 AM
"Taken to the hospital with scrapes, bumps, and bruises"
i think broken bones a little more serious than scrapes, bumps, and bruises
i guess they can't tell for sure but... that ticks me off... i don't like the way the picture makes me feel like "i was just driving minding my own buisness and a damn bicyclist got in the way... now i'm sad, hug me"
bikeCOLORADO
04-16-03, 08:28 AM
hayneda - not meaning to inflame? Why do I post to this thread? Safety and Advocacy? Does that not apply to ALL forms of cycling? From your tone and verbage it sounds to me like you are an intollerant, elitist "roadie" that has no time, care or attention span to the possibility that other riders (Mountain Bikers) might have Advocacy and Safety issues to contend with as well.
I take great care and a great amount of time to champion the cause of Advocacy and Safety for ALL forms on cycling because I CARE, because I've got a large contingent of local cyclists that share my concern across all cycling disciplines.
I choose not to ride on the road merely out of SELF PRESERVATION...certainly not because I've got sort of "inferiority complex". Statistics prove over and over again that riding on the road amongst the in-attentive drivers of multi-ton killing machines is far more dangerous that riding on the trail.
closetbiker
04-16-03, 08:39 AM
Originally posted by livngood
I've got to believe the emotional trauma the motorists experienced -- as evidenced by visible signs of shock from "running down a cyclist" -- had a profound and lasting impact on them.
I have a friend at work who insisits the trama experienced by a driver after he hits a cyclist is worse than the injury suffered by the cyclist. -What a goof!-
I'll agree the emotional trama exists for the drivers but what I don't get is how it is that drivers seem to operate in their own world, isolated from reality, sealed off in the enviroment of the car, and stay disconected to what's happening on the road.
I'm convinced that riding a bike in traffic makes you far more aware of what's happening and that makes you safer.
Pete Clark
04-16-03, 09:12 AM
Originally posted by Koffee Brown
I am actually thinking about getting one of those horns like they use at football games- and using them on the street as well as on the path. I get really tired of yelling...
I got tired of yelling long ago (though I advocate it.)
You can get an air horn (very effective.) I have used a whistle for years. I actually feel naked without keeping it clenched between my teeth (you can't put it in your mouth at the time you need it, you need your hands on the steering.)
If you think that's silly, think about this: it has saved me many times from inattentive drivers. The downside is that I could get a ticket for using it.
But they do sell air horns that can be refilled by a tire pump. The Air Zounds, about $20.
When dealing with pedestrians, a bell is most effective.
hayneda
04-16-03, 09:16 AM
Originally posted by bikeCOLORADO
I choose not to ride on the road merely out of SELF PRESERVATION...certainly not because I've got sort of "inferiority complex". Statistics prove over and over again that riding on the road amongst the in-attentive drivers of multi-ton killing machines is far more dangerous that riding on the trail.
Well, given the injuries to local mtn bikers, I'm not sure that trail riding is any safer than road. But, even if it was, trails don't get me to work, the store, restrurants, etc. Do you propose that an entire network of off road trails be built to get to every possible destination? Remember that some people don't have a car, nor could drive one if they did, or cannot afford one. As these people to be second class citizens?
If I strike you as elitist I do not intend to convey that. If you are just expressing you personal decision not to ride on the road, then fine. However, if you are advocating that folks not ride on the road, then in my opinion, you are doing an injustice to all cyclists, and cyclists' rights.
Dave
TandemGeek
04-16-03, 09:17 AM
The following is what I am sending to the Editor of "The Gazette" with regard to this article:
"I take serious exception to your coverage of Ms. Gooding’s collision with the unnamed cyclist on Colorado Avenue on April 14th. While Bryan Oller’s carefully composed photograph captures one perspective of the human emotions tied to the accident, the associated caption and sub-text misrepresents and essentially attempts to brush aside the real story regarding the cyclist who is also a member of your community.
More specifically, while the photo’s sub-text fully identifies the motorist and the friend offering comfort, the name of the cyclist is omitted as is perhaps an accurate account of his injuries. This begs the question, why? Whether intended or not, the overall effect is that the “cyclist” is reduced to a non-person -- merely a noun that describes their avocation as a cyclist. This non-person status could easily be inferred to suggest the cyclist is perhaps of lesser importance than the named driver pictured along side the bicycle destroyed on impact with her Ford Taurus. Moreover, others familiar with the accident have reported that the cyclist’s injuries were far more extensive and painful than “scrapes, bumps and bruises” would imply. Again, this all serves to diminish the real impact of this type of accident. Unfortunately, this is not at all uncommon with news accounts of cycling and pedestrian vs vehicle accidents that leave uninformed readers with the impression that a cyclist’s life has not been profoundly changed by the accident – an accident that is far too often not their fault.
I would strongly encourage you to remind your editorial staff, reporters and photo journalists to be mindful of the bigger picture and to step into the cyclist’s – as well as the pedestrian’s or motorcyclist’s -- shoes as they consider how they will report on similar accidents in the future. While you and other motorists may sympathize with Ms. Gooding’s account of “not seeing” the cyclist, please do not take comfort from it before spending some time with the victims to gain an appreciation of their rights and feelings. "
BC, thanks for bringing to our attention and best wishes to your friend for a speedy recovery and a prompt return to the saddle.
hayneda - My apologies as well if you got the impression that I was advocating that cyclists stay off the road. I merely stated MY personal choice to stay off the road and to stay on the trail. I do and always will participate HEARTILY in championing the cause of cycling Advocacy and Safety for ALL riders.
I've been on the road MANY times heading to or from the trail (I keep it as brief as possible) - needless to say my 30lb free ride bike ain't no speedy road rocket, it DOES feel GREAT to crank at high speed in "the big ring" for an extended distance (3 miles). I can't imagine what it would feel like on some "ferarri" like road bike...it's definitely got it's appeal, and is proven to be the cardio building King of cycling.
Yet - those stats speak clearly to me, bumps, bruises and scars a plenty I've accumulated on the trails. But the rocks, trees and other obstacles remain stationary...as yet - I've not had a 3,000lb rock try to run me down, run me over or cut a sudden left turn in front of me...and that's what keeps me off the road. The fact that my life would be in the hands of motorists that may or may not happen to be paying attention to my presence on "their" roads.
bikeCOLORADO
04-16-03, 11:25 AM
livngood - Awesome letter. I emailed the link to this thread to my friend, I'm sure this show of support is much appreciated as he recovers!
hayneda
04-16-03, 01:22 PM
Originally posted by bikeCOLORADO
Yet - those stats speak clearly to me, bumps, bruises and scars a plenty I've accumulated on the trails. But the rocks, trees and other obstacles remain stationary...as yet - I've not had a 3,000lb rock try to run me down, run me over or cut a sudden left turn in front of me...and that's what keeps me off the road. The fact that my life would be in the hands of motorists that may or may not happen to be paying attention to my presence on "their" roads.
Those same stats show it to be 2 to 4 times SAFER to bike than drive per mile. So you are safer to ride to the trailhead than drive.
Dave
Chris L
04-16-03, 01:26 PM
Originally posted by livngood
It's not always what they were doing -- although the friggin' cell phones have been changing that at a horrifying rate -- it's usually what they weren't doing and that is looking for pedestrians, bicyclists or motorcyclists.
Drivers instinctively look for the biggest risks to their safety -- objects that are as big or bigger than their own vehicle -- and smaller "threats" like pedestrians and cyclists just don't register in our car-centric world. We see cyclists when we drive because we are acutely aware of them. If you're a motorcyclist you will also more readily see other motorcyclists because you are also accutely aware of them and so on. If you're a classic car collector you'll be able to pick one out of a stream of moving traffic only from your peripheral vision.
However, when it comes to most motorists they don't walk, ride bicycles or ride motorcycles as a mode of transportation or even give it a second thought. Therefore, all three remain "invisible" to them on the road because it's an alien image that doesn't register in their peripheral vision.
It's still not an excuse. As far as I'm concerned, if they're not paying attention they are clearly negligent. If someone acts negligently with a gun, they are generally never allowed to operate it again. Why should a car be any different?
edit: I've just seen your response to the newspaper. Well done. It sounds to me like this 'article' was only designed to engender sympathy to the driver.
TandemGeek
04-16-03, 02:57 PM
Originally posted by Chris L
It sounds to me like this 'article' was only designed to engender sympathy to the driver. [/B]
Actually, I think the photographer and the writer of the sub-text were one in the same and he was more interested in describing his photo composition than reporting the news, i.e., trying to capture that Pulitzer Prize winning photo. Regardless, the editor / editorial staff has a responsiblity for ensuring the accuracy of their data before it's published and they apparently failed to do that.
wabbit
04-16-03, 04:59 PM
I actually had a close call the other day. I was heading a long a road which a lot of cyclists use. A guy in a convertible was coming out of a parking lot and was checking out the traffic to turn into the westbound traffic and I was going east. I figured he'd see me coming and stop, but he began to pull out of the parking lot but I yelled really loudly, "HEY! HEY!" and he stopped. I wouldn't have been able to stop in time and I would have been creamed. Fortunately, he heard me because he was in a convertible! But he didn't even look to see if anyone was coming from the eastbound side. However, he didn't yell at me or anything.
I think at this time of year, a lot of accident happen (around here anyways) because the winter has just ended and motorists are not used to seeing cyclists on the road just yet. It's like they forget over the winter, they have the road to themselves, and they aren't used to seeing cyclists. No excuse for bad driving, of course.
Andy Dreisch
04-16-03, 05:35 PM
Folks, the absolute best way to avoid these scenarios is to arm yourself with bright, blinking lights for the front and rear ... the front especially.
It may not have prevented this particular circumstance of course, but in my experience with thousands of miles on busy, crappy roads, there is NOTHING that gains the attention of drivers better than a flashing bright light. I have seen people see me from hundreds of yards away. There is a distinct difference to how cars treat you.
Guest
04-16-03, 05:42 PM
What if you get hit in the daytime?
Andy Dreisch
04-16-03, 05:45 PM
That's the beautiful thing!!! The lights are BRIGHT and are clearly visible in the daytime, which makes my chances of being hit in the daytime far, far less. (Realizing, of course, that there is no such thing as perfect safety.)
I've seen drivers change their behavior because they think some train is coming down the street. Believe me, it's effective.
cranky
04-16-03, 06:02 PM
The Cateye Opticube blinky has 3 Super Bright LEDs and it is AWESOME. I've never tried it during the day, but at night, it is insanely attention getting. You look like a cop car coming down the street and it stops 'em right in their tracks.
Andy Dreisch
04-16-03, 06:09 PM
cranky, on my commuter (which represents 90+% of my miles) I use the NiteRider Digital light which comes with two lights in the front. One blinks when you're in blinking mode. I don't know how it compares to the Opticube you mention ... I'm only telling others what I have found to be useful -- and SAFE.
I do know that the NiteRider Digital ain't cheap. And the battery is insanely heavy but that's of little consequence for me.
Chris L
04-16-03, 09:08 PM
Originally posted by Andy Dreisch
Folks, the absolute best way to avoid these scenarios is to arm yourself with bright, blinking lights for the front and rear ... the front especially.
I agree there are things we can do that increase our own safety. Riding in a predictable manner is another to add to the list. However, nothing is going to guarantee perfect safety, and I, for one, still think that as a society, we need to apply the same principles of negligence to driving as we do to all other activities.
Guest
04-16-03, 09:13 PM
For sure!
If they applied the same laws to negligence against cyclists as to negligence against other motorists, that annoying little "blind spot" they claim to have that prevents them from seeing cyclists would suddenly disappear.
chewa
04-17-03, 02:11 AM
the thing which will prevent more accidents like this is to get more bikes on the road. The more there are, the more drivers will be aware of them!!
As cyclists we take a risk, it's just a case of minimising the risk by riding assertively and being aware.
A car overtakes me near a turn off, my fingers creep to the levers because I'm attuned to the possibilty that they may left hook me.
You can get caught out, but just now I balance the risk as less than the enjoyment, though I have largely stopped using a nearby dual carriageway because it is too dangerous (IMO).
If more cyclists used it, I think it would become less dangerous.
Chris L
04-17-03, 03:35 AM
Originally posted by Koffee Brown
For sure!
If they applied the same laws to negligence against cyclists as to negligence against other motorists, that annoying little "blind spot" they claim to have that prevents them from seeing cyclists would suddenly disappear.
OMG! Koffee and I actually agreed on something! Put a mark on the wall! ;)
closetbiker
04-17-03, 06:21 AM
Originally posted by chewa
the thing which will prevent more accidents like this is to get more bikes on the road. The more there are, the more drivers will be aware of them!!
and if more cycle, more will understand how a moments inattention will result in someone getting hurt!
Cyclists are aware of their surroundings. Drivers are sealed off to them.
Prosody
04-17-03, 07:16 AM
I see this all the time: a car leaving a parking lot or side street pulls up to the road. The driver looks to the right, although traffic approaches from the left (reverse this if you must). After looking to the right, the driver begins to enter the roadway, looking to the left only after the car has begun to enter the lane.
This is just plain bad driving, and by paying attention to what the driver is doing instead of watching only the car, you can anticipate the driver's action. If the driver has not looked in my direction, I assume the driver will pull out in front of me, so I yell, "Hey!" or something like that, slow down, and keep my hands on the brake levers. If the driver looks in my direction, I attempt to make eye contact. If I do make eye contact, I am more comfortable in the assumption that the driver will not pull out in front of me, but I remain ready for him/her to do so.
We have to ride defensively and assertively: we should always expect drivers to do something stupid, and we should always make our presence known. Drivers do not want to run us down. They just do not look for us because they do not expect us to be on the road, so we have to make sure they know we are on the road. Having said this, I will always find it terribly difficult to believe, in the case of a cyclist hit from the rear, that the driver did not see that cyclist.
On a side note, I learned from the guys on the radio program Car Talk how to set up a car's side view mirrors to eliminate blind spots to the rear. In the driver's seat, lean your head against the driver's window and adjust the mirror so that you can just see the rear end of the car. Then, from the driver's seat, lean far to the passenger side and adjust that outside mirror so you can just see the rear of the car. From a normal driving position, you will not see the rear of the car in the outside mirrors. This may be a little disconcerting at first. What happens, though, is this: In the rear view mirror at the windshield you can see cars and cyclists behind you in your own lane and in the adjacent lanes. When a car or cyclist in an adjacent lane disappears from that mirror, he/she/it immediately appears in the side mirror. You no longer have blind spots to your rear.