Commuting - Article About Bike Store Trying to Keep it Simple

This article (http://www.boston.com/news/local/articles/2006/12/03/easy_bike_riders_mantra_keep_it_simple_and_cheap/)in today's Boston Globe West is about a bike store where the owner is trying to keep things simple for people who might not be into bikes. I agree with almost everything he said, especially about bike-buying now being so complicated that it turns off non-cyclists.

Article Summary:

Retro Grouch owns a bike shop. Business model questionable as he doesn't make any money.

He's a hobbiest who lowers prices to sell stuff to stroke his ego. So he can be looked upon as a small businessman. But he's not. He's failing. He's trying to justify his failure.

In the process he makes customers think a bike shop trying to make a living charges too much. It happens in lots of businesses.

This article (http://www.boston.com/news/local/articles/2006/12/03/easy_bike_riders_mantra_keep_it_simple_and_cheap/)in today's Boston Globe West is about a bike store where the owner is trying to keep things simple for people who might not be into bikes. I agree with almost everything he said, especially about bike-buying now being so complicated that it turns off non-cyclists.

Yes, I also agree with not only what he said but where he's going with his business model.

While several of the "elite" here will squeak at the mention of simple bikes given that the public
will ,in time, come to not only want simple bike but actually need them when fuel prices rise to crazy
amounts and stay there. :eek: All of the bike shops near my home are of this simple nature being
run by folk's who don't want or need the spandex crowd due to the expensive products they want to
buy.

I hope this guy can make it - and he just might if his business is in the black in it's second year as the article says. Even if he is making $2.00 per hour, he is ahead of the average for new businesses.

The fact remains that in terms of both volume and total dollars, more bicycles and more money is spent on the cheap department store bikes than all the specialty bicycle retails stores combined - hands down.

The people who are on a budget and just want a rideable bike at a reasonable price ALSO want an enjoyable purchasing experience. When they walk into a high end bike shop and buy the cheapest bike there (which is still more expensive than the most expensive department store bike), the feel like a low-end buyer and maybe even a little embarrassed. They don't get the same purchase-pleasure they would if they were buying a low cost bike somewhere else.

I remember bringing my young son into a high end bike store. Naturally, he immediately zoomed to the $600 bike. That might not seem like much money to some of you, but to me, $600 is a lot of bicycle money for a kid who hasn't even had a pimple yet.

So I had to steer him down, down, down toward the lower priced machines. We left the store with him still looking at the expensive bike and me feeling like a heel. Of course the bike store staff was no help either with their "Well, the higher end bikes will last a lot longer and are better built, blah blah blah" Heck, in 18 months, the bike will either be too small for my son or stolen or both. I don't need uber-quality for that.

That sure was NOT the kind of purchase experience I wanted and I regreted not going straight to the department store directly and avoiding the whole disappointing bike shop experience.

Even for adults, maybe you have an old Schwinn Varsity OR worse, an old Huffy three-speed that you want to take to the shop for repair or tune-up. The hight end bike shop kid-employee looks at you when you come in and says' "Whoa, Dude, I haven't seen one of those before. Is that like an antique or somthin'? I'm not sure if we can even get parts for that. OK, well, bring it around to the back then and Dave can look at it when he gets back because he knows more about those old bikes..." Sure, you will be paying modern day prices to get your old bike looked at, but you almost feel ashamed to do so.

So, the guy described in the article just might be able to make a go of it and I hope he does. I think there are plenty of people who want to feel good about buying a reasonable bike at a good price or have their old bike repaired by a guy who is passionate about keeping bikes on the road.

For the spandex crowd who ride bikes assembled with non-standard fasteners, there are shops for them too uptown.

I wonder what brand or type of simple bike he has to sell. It seems bikes similar to older English and American three speed "lightweights" or single speed, coaster brake "middleweights" are the ticket for the owner's vision. Where does he get the new product to sell? Who are his customers? I would think college students living away from home would offer a ripe target.

Note: Weight being a relative standard prior to a decades long LBS marketing scheme/infatuation with racer boy products.

David Watson , executive director of the Massachusetts Bicycle Coalition , who has met Altman and checked out his shop, also said the $500 ceiling is unusual at a time when bike sales are down and the average sale price of bikes is going up.


Ummm... paging Adam Smith.

I'm not sure that I agree with his take on the manufacturers. I see a trend, however slight, over the last couple of years where some of the major bike makers are rolling out models that are closer to the simple 'utility' bikes you see in Europe - albiet still with an American 'sportiness'. Obviously they are still going after the high-end racing style bike market, but it looks like they are seeing that there is also a market for the more basic, low cost bikes too. If these bikes sell well, I see no reason why this trend won't continue.

I wonder what brand or type of simple bike he has to sell. It seems bikes similar to older English and American three speed "lightweights" or single speed, coaster brake "middleweights" are the ticket for the owner's vision. Where does he get the new product to sell? Who are his customers? I would think college students living away from home would offer a ripe target.

Note: Weight being a relative standard prior to a decades long LBS marketing scheme/infatuation with racer boy products.
I can about guarantee they are going to be no name Chinese made...but that is apparently the only way to get anything "affordable" in today's world. Amen on the weight statement...I bought into that...once...

Aaron:)

"New business owner defies market!" film at 11...

I applaud Phil Altman's KISS concept, but I think he's going about it the wrong way. His location isn't great. He's between Boston and Worcester, and 2-3 miles south of 4 bike shops and an REI. I'm sure there are a variety of reasons why he chose that particular location, but why not move closer to either Boston or Worcester? Why not get closer to Cambridge with its student population? Also, it appears that SLC is a bike repair shop that also happens to sell a few cheap bikes and accessories. That's not a bad thing by any stretch, but I seriously doubt he will be able to get the volume of repair work that he needs to stay afloat. If he focused on making his inventory 50/50 between used and new and bringing in new bikes with better margins, he would have a better chance of surviving.

Obviously, Phil didn't have a very good business plan, regardless of how good his ideas were. This is pretty strange for a former accountant.

I think this guy has the right idea. New riders must feel overwhelmed--even humiliated--when they go into the average LBS.

This forum is actually a prime example of that. Most times when a newbie asks for advice here, they get all this arcane data about gear inches and component groups. If I had heard that stuff when I first started riding, I never would have taken it up. Luckily, I "ignorantly" bought a $30 abused Walmart bike for my first bike and had fun with it. I graduated to a used Specialized Hardrock ($100), and I still ride similar bikes, and go about 100 miles a week on them--quite efficiently and happily.

The big manufacturers do make nice entry bikes in the $300 to $500 range. You can even buy a nice road bike for $600, if you don't mind a loss of status in the cycling community. Unfortunately, most bike shops (and most BF threads) fail to steer novices toward these practical and inexpensive bikes.

Rents are high. A sharp shop has to sell stuff that gets a customer shopping back in that store...say every month or so. If he has a website to suppliment business, it might work out. If he offered some sort of regular classes (that encourage buying at the store at the same time), it would help.

I wonder what brand or type of simple bike he has to sell. It seems bikes similar to older English and American three speed "lightweights" or single speed, coaster brake "middleweights" are the ticket for the owner's vision. Where does he get the new product to sell? Who are his customers? I would think college students living away from home would offer a ripe target.

Note: Weight being a relative standard prior to a decades long LBS marketing scheme/infatuation with racer boy products.

ILTB, haven't you seen the new Electra Amsterdam? And here at the USC campus there are thousands, no exageration at all, of single speed cruisers, new and ancient alike so they must be making them someplace.

Also, despite their hipster association (so what in my opinion) there are tons of old road bikes being given a new lease on life as single speeds or fixed gears. You can't get much more durable than a simple chromoly frame, a single speed, and a couple of sidepull brakes. Just because some large company isn't making the bike you want doesn't mean there isn't someone out there who can't make it for you or show you how to do it.

I think we should have more of these types of low end stores. I have seen people at the LSB (3 of them) walk in look around and then leave because the prices are way to high. It happens all the time. And yes the LBS are geting to be more like a car dealership, with high pressure sales.

The middle class in this country is perfectly willing to spend thousands of dollars on its primary mode of transportation. I mean, watch cars driving down the street and notice that 90% of them cost over $20,000. We don't need more $150 bikes, we need people to look at bicycles as a viable method of transportation.

People aren't going to buy a bike at any price if they aren't going to use it, and they'll pay hundreds or thousands of dollars for one if they think they need to to be able to get around.

Rents are high. A sharp shop has to sell stuff that gets a customer shopping back in that store...say every month or so.

This doesn't seem like a guy looking to perpetuate habitual consumerism. Good for him.

Of course, his philosophy is heard by noone if he goes out of business.

I think this guy has the right idea. New riders must feel overwhelmed--even humiliated--when they go into the average LBS.

This forum is actually a prime example of that. Most times when a newbie asks for advice here, they get all this arcane data about gear inches and component groups. If I had heard that stuff when I first started riding, I never would have taken it up. Luckily, I "ignorantly" bought a $30 abused Walmart bike for my first bike and had fun with it. I graduated to a used Specialized Hardrock ($100), and I still ride similar bikes, and go about 100 miles a week on them--quite efficiently and happily.

The big manufacturers do make nice entry bikes in the $300 to $500 range. You can even buy a nice road bike for $600, if you don't mind a loss of status in the cycling community. Unfortunately, most bike shops (and most BF threads) fail to steer novices toward these practical and inexpensive bikes.

+1000

And it's also true that people should look more as a bike as a viable means of transportation. While in some cases you get what you pay for the flip side is that someone just wanting to commute 5 miles each way doesn't need a top end racing bike as an entry bike. They need something that they'll want to ride and feel comfortable riding so they'll ride more.

I think we should have more of these types of low end stores. I have seen people at the LSB (3 of them) walk in look around and then leave because the prices are way to high. It happens all the time. And yes the LBS are geting to be more like a car dealership, with high pressure sales.

Yes, high prices are certainly one deterant from the LBS. Another turn-off is the whole bicycle industry's focus on either racing on road bikes or jumping off cliffs with a mountain bike. It's like there isn't any other use for a bicycle. If you can't relate to Lance Armstrong or "face-of-the-month" rock jumper, then you don't count in today's bicycle marketing scheme of things. When you go into the high-end bicycle shop, that is the impression you get. Everything is so extreme.

The vast majority of bicyclists aren't racers nor are they jumping off cliffs with their bikes. I think that a guy with a passion for bicycle RIDING has the chance of capturing a large audience.

I wonder what brand or type of simple bike he has to sell. It seems bikes similar to older English and American three speed "lightweights" or single speed, coaster brake "middleweights" are the ticket for the owner's vision

Did you see this bike yet ?
http://www.bikemania.biz/PAKE_Mens_Urban_Six_Speed_18_Bike_p/pake_urban_man.htm


I love this guys philosophy. Except for an occasional spoke, tube or blinkie
a LBS has nothing for me, a humble utilitarian bicycler.
Its internet or flea market only for bikes and other bigger stuff.
It will be a small victory for society in general if he succeeds :D

New riders must feel overwhelmed--even humiliated--when they go into the average LBS.

It's not just the new riders, and it's not just at the LBS. Although I probably still qualify as a newbie to many, at least in terms of "serious" cycling (I got re-interested in cycling in 2002), I still feel out of place when I go into a bike shop. Even at the one I frequent, where the owners and several of the employees know me by name, I feel like a fish out of water. I don't have the money to buy a new bike, much less one that costs more than $1,000 (nor would I pay that much even if I did have the money); I'm too big for most of the cycling clothes they sell; I'm perfectly happy with the original 8-speed Sora components on my 2003 entry-level Allez; I don't need a pair of $200 shoes; etc. Even the charity rides (and other pay-to-ride events), I feel like I'm an interloper in the world of "real" cyclists: the T-shirts they hand out as an entry perk rarely go above size XL; even when I'm not the last finisher, often the post-ride food/displays/etc. are long gone by the time the slowpoke crowd rolls back in.

With the exception of in some of the forums here on BF and bikelist.org, it seems there's little room in the world of "serious cycling" for the "average American" -- overweight (hoping cycling can help with that), not willing/able to spend two months' pay for a bike and who knows how much more for fancy new components every few weeks, not racer-fast, not interested in jumping a mountain bike off rocks, etc.

The middle class in this country is perfectly willing to spend thousands of dollars on its primary mode of transportation. I mean, watch cars driving down the street and notice that 90% of them cost over $20,000. We don't need more $150 bikes, we need people to look at bicycles as a viable method of transportation.

People aren't going to buy a bike at any price if they aren't going to use it, and they'll pay hundreds or thousands of dollars for one if they think they need to to be able to get around.

But until we can get enough of them on decent $150 (or so) bikes and get them comfortable riding on the roads as part of traffic, they won't think they need one to get around. Until then, IMHO, they'll see couple-thousand-dollar bikes as just more expensive versions of the $100 bike at Kmart which works just fine for their one-time ride on the local bike path. But if they could get a good entry level bike for $150, then maybe they'd follow the path most of us used to take with our internal combustion transportation (before it seemed like every teenager got a brand new car): start with the low end and upgrade to newer/more expensive models over time.

But if they could get a good entry level bike for $150, then maybe they'd follow the path most of us used to take with our internal combustion transportation (before it seemed like every teenager got a brand new car): start with the low end and upgrade to newer/more expensive models over time.

Not to pick on you, but this is a perfect example of our common contradiction.

Teenagers get USED cars. We're not standing around asking for more $7000 Daewoo/Yugo/etc cars so teenagers can drive.

I have been surprised, especially in this forum, that more new riders aren't directed towards used bikes more. Yes, they don't want to spend a lot of money, and yes, they don't know what they want/need, but that's the whole point. Most of the time, a $150 used bike will be a vastly superior product to the $150 new bike.

If we really wanted bicycles to be considered a viable form of transportation we would treat them as commodities instead of disposable toys. This cannot be done by the majority of bike retailers who make their money off of new bike sales. It's like expecting the makers of the "ab blaster" to care whether you use it or not.

I hope the guy succeeds. I've seen bike stores that only sell up scale (2k+) bikes, so why not a shop on the low end. No way am I going to commute with a $2,000 bike. Okay maybe if I had S Cal weather and a personal bike locker everywhere I stopped.

I agree with that guy's philosphy. I sometimes feel that I'm being pushed out by the LBS's. And I got a Cross Check and that's not so cheap. There is just too much expensive stuff which I don't see much use fore. The bike market has become too complex. It's like MP3 players. Manufacturers kept adding more and more gadget features and then Apple came out with a simple product and took over the whole market. So will a manufacturer come out with a simple bike model? That's the weak part in the guy's business plan because I doubt they will. Maybe he can team up with a small compny in India or China.

Another turn-off is the whole bicycle industry's focus on either racing on road bikes or jumping off cliffs with a mountain bike.

Amen brother.

"Bikes are too complicated, too expensive, and the middle, average American isn't riding any more.

Yup, yup and most certainly yup. Bike riding has become extreme, specialized, and absurdly expensive.

I think this guy has the right idea. New riders must feel overwhelmed--even humiliated--when they go into the average LBS.

As a very new face to the bike scene that exists beyond the walls of department/discount warehouses, I can back you up 100%

I needed basic transportation. A bike is a bike, right? That's what americans think. They don't know the quality difference between Shimano and Gisu or between Next and Trek. Bikes are cheap at wal-mart, and expensive at any shop that has "Bike" in the name.

For the first 2/3 of my life, I rode cheap bikes. They either came in a box you put together yourself, or they came slapped together, requiring a complete overhaul by my dad and I before riding. I thought that's just how bikes were until I took my misbehaving Next bike to a bike shop and was practically laughed at, then given an opportunity to buy a $400 "entry level" bike.

Fortunately, I take criticism very, very well. I rationalize with people. After leveling with him, the bike shop manager told me what was broken and that it would cost more to fix than I bought it for. After asking why those things were breaking, I finally got out of him what I needed to know. The components were made for a 100 pound teenager who might put 10 miles on it per month, and I'm a lard-ass that was putting 150 miles a month on it.

I eventually bought a used bike from them, and they're great people. But a lesser man would have been grossly offended and probably done with cycling for good after a run-in like that.

Anyhow, Kudos to Phil. Whether it makes good business sense or not, it's a somewhat noble cause.

This doesn't seem like a guy looking to perpetuate habitual consumerism. Good for him.

Of course, his philosophy is heard by noone if he goes out of business.

Well that might feel good but customers can only buy so many bikes and once he taps 'em out on bike sales, if they don't come back for something...and regularly, I'm not sure he'd be able to even make rent esp. in the 'dry' months

Did you see this bike yet ?
http://www.bikemania.biz/PAKE_Mens_Urban_Six_Speed_18_Bike_p/pake_urban_man.htm


I love this guys philosophy. Except for an occasional spoke, tube or blinkie
a LBS has nothing for me, a humble utilitarian bicycler.
Its internet or flea market only for bikes and other bigger stuff.
It will be a small victory for society in general if he succeeds :D
That certainly appears to be value. Now the question is, does anyone have any experience with this company's mail order products actually being available anywhere or are they like the Electra Amsterdam - all smoke and mirrors.

Speaking of the Electra "Amsterdam", Treespeed have you actually seen one on the streets of LA? I also wonder how many of the single speed cruisers you see around LA are less than 20 years old. 20 years old is fine, because they will probably be good for another 20 years too; just there has been almost none available new, anywhere in the US (that I've noticed) for a long time. An Electra "Amsterdam" type bike sold at a reasonable price (and not an exorbitant price for a Chinese made low tech bike that may or may not ever show up) would be a good thing.

ILTB, I understand your skepticism, as it's obviously your natural state, but out here you can buy any type of cruiser you want brand new. I haven't seen an amsterdam yet in Los Angeles, but I see Electras all the time and I've seen Dutch bikes on Campus. Just because you aren't seeing these bikes in Iowa doesn't mean you couldn't get one if you wanted it badly enough.
People would probably prefer some of these simpler bikes, but becuase of their rarity they will demand a premium. I seriously doubt that an LBS could stay afloat in most cities catering to such a niche clientele. I'm sure most people would be happier on the kinds of bikes one sees in Amsterdam, but sadly those are not the bikes that sell and it's not just the industry's fault. Just like with cars if someone wants an electric car you can find one. You can't blame the auto industry for SUV's if no one wanted these cars then the companies would go out of business.

I think this guy has the right idea. New riders must feel overwhelmed--even humiliated--when they go into the average LBS.

This forum is actually a prime example of that. Most times when a newbie asks for advice here, they get all this arcane data about gear inches and component groups.

I disagree. This forum -- commuting -- is full of people who are very low-ego, and very forthcoming and patient with specific and helpful advice. I mean, a guy just started a thread about the advantages of disc brakes vs. v-brakes -- and he got a half dozen serious answers with just a little gentle nudging about how the topic might have been discussed before.

I think you're thinking of another neighboring forum.



I'm too big for most of the cycling clothes they sell


You notice that too? In normal life I'm an average size guy, and in the clothing section of a bike shop I'm Gulliver among the Lilliputians.

The guy has a point with his philosophy.

However, so do LBSs who offer high-end bikes.

If he can get his message out there to enough people in the right demographics, those who share his philosophy will flock to his store and make him a success.

The ones who don't have a use for his store will not go there.

If he doesn't make it, then the next guy who comes along has some lessons to be taken and has a little stronger of a chance of making it.

Not to pick on you, but this is a perfect example of our common contradiction.

Teenagers get USED cars. We're not standing around asking for more $7000 Daewoo/Yugo/etc cars so teenagers can drive.

I have been surprised, especially in this forum, that more new riders aren't directed towards used bikes more. Yes, they don't want to spend a lot of money, and yes, they don't know what they want/need, but that's the whole point. Most of the time, a $150 used bike will be a vastly superior product to the $150 new bike.

True, but I guess I'm thinking that approach may not be as easy to translate to bicycles, since our (U.S., at least) society is so car-centric. You can pretty easily find a halfway decent used car, just by driving down the road or looking through the classifieds. Most people are at least somewhat comfortable with deciding whether to buy a used car based on a test drive and maybe having a relative or the neighborhood shadetree mechanic take a cursory look at it. But I don't think most (non-"real cyclist")people are savvy enough about bicycles to call up somebody who's listed a bike for sale in the classifieds, take a quick spin on it, and tell a huge difference between that $150 used bike and the $100-$150 brand new one down at Wally World or Sports Authority. Sure, we know it probably is vastly superior, but to Jane or John Doe, it's the same price and it's used, so the shiny new one must be better. And, at least in my random look-sees at what passes for the "used bicycle dealer" (pawn shops), most of the big line of used bikes chained up out front are those same quintuple suspension toy bikes from the big box places, or rusted out 30-year-old 10-speeds from Sears.


If we really wanted bicycles to be considered a viable form of transportation we would treat them as commodities instead of disposable toys. This cannot be done by the majority of bike retailers who make their money off of new bike sales.

Yeah, but how do we get there? As long as the big boxes are selling the $100-$150 brand new "toy" bike (which serves even plenty of daily commuters well enough--generalizing, obviously, but thinking primarily of the low-income immigrant workers for whom those bikes are primary transportation), and unless we get to $10 a gallon gas or whatever level it takes before more people start parking their cars and looking for alternatives, I still think there's a vast unserved middle ground which could be targeted with a decent quality/low cost new bike (which, in my little fantasy world here, would then result in more people looking for higher priced bikes, more decent used bikes on the market, and more people with the awareness/knowledge of what makes a good bike so they could advise the teens in search of their first good used bike).

ILTB, I understand your skepticism, as it's obviously your natural state, but out here you can buy any type of cruiser you want brand new. I haven't seen an amsterdam yet in Los Angeles, but I see Electras all the time and I've seen Dutch bikes on Campus.
Humor me. Please elaborate on what passes for a Dutch bike in LA. Are they Gazelle, Union, Sparta, Batavus or some other Dutch brand; perhaps Oma (Granny type pictured below with Queen Juliana) single speeds with extreme rake and high handlebars. Or you talking about high end Koga Miyata; or is it something else?

In my U.S. Middle West and Eastern Seaboard travels I never saw a Dutch bike used by any cyclist; but a zillion older English 3 speed bikes used by college students and city commuters.

In the Netherlands I never saw a local riding anything in any city that looked like the majority of "commuter" bikes pictured on the BF Commuter pictures sticky thread.

Not to pick on you, but this is a perfect example of our common contradiction.

Teenagers get USED cars. We're not standing around asking for more $7000 Daewoo/Yugo/etc cars so teenagers can drive.

I have been surprised, especially in this forum, that more new riders aren't directed towards used bikes more. Yes, they don't want to spend a lot of money, and yes, they don't know what they want/need, but that's the whole point. Most of the time, a $150 used bike will be a vastly superior product to the $150 new bike.

If we really wanted bicycles to be considered a viable form of transportation we would treat them as commodities instead of disposable toys. This cannot be done by the majority of bike retailers who make their money off of new bike sales. It's like expecting the makers of the "ab blaster" to care whether you use it or not.
And as a general rule the average American doesn't want used the want brand new. Those of us that haven't bought into that particular load of crap make out like a bandit at thrift shops, yard sales and flea markets:D My LBS quite often will have a pretty decent fleet of used/trade ins to sell. If one that is in my size sits too long I will get a call from them asking if I am looking for anything:p I have bought several that way.

Aaron:)

I have a concern for his business model in that he is competing not with 'regular' bike stores, but with department store bikes. Though I think that a service based store is the best way to break into the bike business without a lot of capital or loans for floor stock.

Too bad his retro-grouchery may get in the way of success as a service mechanic. There is a huge aftermarket in high end cycling kit on the internet, but you have to be prepared to deal with attitude from stores if you have to use their mechanic to fit internet purchased parts that are often sourced at a lower price than the LBS can get at wholesale. Not all stores are like this, but I would rather take my business to a mechanic that does not have the sales pressure or attitude that makes the situation unpleasant.

Some of the best mechanics in my country are now setting themselves up as service only businesses rather than continue to work for the larger chain LBS stores. The best mechanics will treat a bike found in the dumpster with the same care as an all carbon fibre italian racing bike. However, the dumpster bike will likely only need tyre and brake block changes on occasion, but the race bike will be stripped and rebuilt at least once a year.

I read the article and have fond memories when I had a small bicycle repair shop in Indianapolis. Of course this was 25 years ago and I was young and bikes were mad of steel. It was more of a hobby venture since I also worked at a bar 3 nights a week. For the most part it was great fun and profitable but, it sure was no way to get rich. If this shop in Boston can make a go of it on his own terms I commend him. I hope guys our age are the first and possibly the last of of a breed of bikers. Baby boomers are so f@#$ spoiled with their $4000.00 Carbon Fiber bikes! What you may lose in stamina you make up in low weight bikes, join the Viagra crowd if you want to keep up! If we can support the local guy who has a small shop then go seek them out. Minneapolis has 3 shops that come to mind run by sole proprietors. Chicago has loads too. Sorry if the rant is tooooooo....

There is a shop near where I live that is similar to the one in this article. I bought two new tires and tubes for $20 but thats about it. If I was looking for tubes and tires cheap, for an old bike, I would stop in, but otherwise, I dont. If it was a combination old/new shop, with some availability of slightly higher priced items, plus availability to have things I needed ordered, I would go more often. As things stand, I stop in the shop where I bought my mtb, to have things adjusted, or if I wanted to look at the bianchis or fujis. If I need something like koolstops, I got to another LBS, as the other shop doesn have them, or I order online.

As it stands, I often feel guilty for not buying a more expensive bike at the shop I stop in at. I was asking about road bikes once, and asked about getting used, but the guy at the LBS said I should get a new one fitted to me, so I know what its like riding a properly fitted bike. He pointed me at $1000+ bikes. I would think he realized that I wasn't spending that much, after my purchase of a mtb was sub $400. They still show me very expensive bikes whenever I stop in. I feel like a cheapskate every time I go to that specific shop.

I guess what im saying is the guys idea is good, but that he is missing out on other possibilities. I think you can sell used and inexpensive bikes, as well as more expensive ones, and make sure to give people the feeling that you appreciate them even when they buy the less expensive bikes.

"New business owner defies market!" film at 11...

I applaud Phil Altman's KISS concept, but I think he's going about it the wrong way. His location isn't great. He's between Boston and Worcester, and 2-3 miles south of 4 bike shops and an REI. I'm sure there are a variety of reasons why he chose that particular location, but why not move closer to either Boston or Worcester? Why not get closer to Cambridge with its student population? Also, it appears that SLC is a bike repair shop that also happens to sell a few cheap bikes and accessories. That's not a bad thing by any stretch, but I seriously doubt he will be able to get the volume of repair work that he needs to stay afloat. If he focused on making his inventory 50/50 between used and new and bringing in new bikes with better margins, he would have a better chance of surviving.

Obviously, Phil didn't have a very good business plan, regardless of how good his ideas were. This is pretty strange for a former accountant.

Pretty accurate assessment all the way from Alberta "pinkrobe".

I, too, respect his desire for simplicity and think it could be a workable, though not enormously profitable, enterprise. But his location is iffy at best and there are a plethora of high end bike shops in the Boston area and surrounding suburbs who not only offer top priced models but also offer good basic commuter bikes in $4-500 range. It's not mentioned in the article but Framingham is an ideal community to commute to the train station on a bike or to a "share a ride" location and that would be the market he might target.

He seems to have wasted the invaluable newspaper attention by being negative- not a plus. Referring to some cyclists as spandex clad clowns may not be the best business approach. Alienating and narrowing your customer base doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

Humor me. Please elaborate on what passes for a Dutch bike in LA. Are they Gazelle, Union, Sparta, Batavus or some other Dutch brand; perhaps Oma (Granny type pictured below with Queen Juliana) single speeds with extreme rake and high handlebars. Or you talking about high end Koga Miyata; or is it something else?

In my U.S. Middle West and Eastern Seaboard travels I never saw a Dutch bike used by any cyclist; but a zillion older English 3 speed bikes used by college students and city commuters.

In the Netherlands I never saw a local riding anything in any city that looked like the majority of "commuter" bikes pictured on the BF Commuter pictures sticky thread.

I've seen the children's passenger style bikes that looked exactly like ones I saw in Amsterdam and another folding bike with a child's passenger seat that looked asian to me. But you have to remember that there is a huge European community in this city.

I saw a few folks riding high end road bikes in Amsterdam and a couple of fixed gears, but that was just last fall.

I don't understand your insistence that any kind of bike a person might want isn't available. Even Bicycling magazine did a whole story on the chinese pidgeon and how you might get one if you wanted to. The problem I experienced was trying to find a 60cm frame in Italy. You should have seen the laughing every time I went into Italian bike shops surrounded by 54s.

There aren't as many people commuting in Los Angeles as should be given the terrain and the weather, but there is a diversive bicycle culture and I would be willing to bet that you could get or have made any bicycle you wanted here.

That certainly appears to be value. Now the question is, does anyone have any experience with this company's mail order products actually being available anywhere or are they like the Electra Amsterdam - all smoke and mirrors.

There's yet another LBS in Portland (we really do have a lot of them) that is a Pake dealer. Now this shop mostly caters to the fixed gear crowd, and I'll bet those are the kind of Pake bikes the owner keeps in the store. I'm sure she'd order if someone wanted to buy one and she didn't stock it. Who knows, if enough work commuters (she's downtown - Portlanders, it's Veloshop) went in and asked about it, maybe she'd carry one for people to try out. Shall I add this to my list of future LBS lunchtime browsing expeditions, ILTB?

if this is the same guy i'm thinking of, he has a pretty bad reputation for not knowing how to assemble bikes. he was selling fuji tracks at blowout prices, like $375 or so, but wasn't tightening the lockrings properly. i'm sure by now hes figured it out, but according to craigslist it looks like he had to clear out his inventory since hes not an authorized fuji dealer anymore. however, i may be mistaken. a guy i know did just buy a bike from him recently, though, and it's holding up fine.

his motives are admirable, but the execution seems poor. bikes not bombs operates under a similar agenda, but manages to do just fine and is actually in boston. being a nonprofit might have something to do with their success, though. shops like cambridge and boston bicycle don't do a lot of high end sales, it's mostly repair and accessories. my friend who works there tells me that these $250 jamis mtb's are selling pretty well. but they do offer higher end items. diversification isn't necessarily bad, and by alienating the enthusiasts this shop owner is really doing himself a disservice.

There a shop near me that sells lots of used bikes similar to thw owner in the article. Great idea and location. Unfortunately, it's one of those places completely unorganized with bike laying all around, old bar tape for sale that must've been from the 80's, stuff like that. I wish he would run a tight ship it would be a great place.

Shall I add this to my list of future LBS lunchtime browsing expeditions, ILTB?
Yes, please, and also ask if the shop can provide any kind of firm delivery date to a customer for bikes not on the floor. I'd be interested and appreciate your findings.

ILTB, The Electra Amsterdam is not even released yet, Geezus.

Electra says Dec and Jan. If, after Jan, they are still not available, then maybe your constant complaint about not seeing one would have any bearings.

Yes, please, and also ask if the shop can provide any kind of firm delivery date to a customer for bikes not on the floor. I'd be interested and appreciate your findings.

Funny how a pretty gal always brings out the 'nice' manners in us. :D :beer:

I've stopped in at a store a bunch of times right near work, which has Merckx, Seven, and all kinds of other ridonkulously expensive bike frames hanging over the counter, no clothes except for Assos, etc. etc.

All I was there for was a few cables, some loose balls to repack bearings, brake shoes/pads, and the guy was absolutely pleasant and helpful about the whole thing. I know there were people there who were paying him more for much more exotic stuff, but he had old beaters in there for repair as well as really expensive gear. You do need to cater to the expensive tastes as well as the pedestrian ones to make a marketplace satisfied.

And, FWIW, you can pick up assorted hybrid bikes for less than 300, which is a reaction to the fact that people starting don't want to buy a road bike, they want flattish bars, and a padded seat with a triple chainring and platform pedals. They may eventually upsell to a road bike (either new or used) and will probably be ready to spend more $ when they do, and will appreciate what they are actually paying for at that point.

I've never spent more than $250 on a bike, and I have 7 in my garage. One for each kid, one for the wife, and 4 for me. That's fair isn't it? Anyway, I'm one of the tire kickers CigTech saw walk into the store, turn and walk away. I'm not spending $1000 on a bike. Not gonna happen. Don't need to. If I were racing and wanted to be somewhat competitive, maybe I'd spend $1000. A friend of mine just dropped $2500 on a time-trial bike for triathlons. He's 40 years old, runs 8 minute miles, and finishes in the middle of the pack compared to other old duffers. I was kidding him. Hey, I bet that new bike will improve your finish line standing from 75th to maybe 68th place.

ILTB, The Electra Amsterdam is not even released yet, Geezus.

Electra says Dec and Jan. If, after Jan, they are still not available, then maybe your constant complaint about not seeing one would have any bearings.
My "complaint" is about constant hyping of a product that no one has seen and is certainly nothing new; just an apparant overpriced offering of a Chinese copy of a very simple (and practical) bike that is available everywhere else but North America, and at a far more reasonable price.

I've stopped in at a store a bunch of times right near work, which has Merckx, Seven, and all kinds of other ridonkulously expensive bike frames hanging over the counter, no clothes except for Assos, etc. etc.

All I was there for was a few cables, some loose balls to repack bearings, brake shoes/pads, and the guy was absolutely pleasant and helpful about the whole thing. I know there were people there who were paying him more for much more exotic stuff, but he had old beaters in there for repair as well as really expensive gear. You do need to cater to the expensive tastes as well as the pedestrian ones to make a marketplace satisfied.
That's a perfect example of a well-run shop. It doesn't matter whether you're buying cables for your $50 POS or your $5000 POS, they cost the same, and represent the same profit to the shop owner. Anyone who discriminates against a section of the market does themselves a disservice...

Note: Weight being a relative standard prior to a decades long LBS marketing scheme/infatuation with racer boy products.

As opposed to slow girl products? :rolleyes: