Classic & Vintage - Anybody else notice that Vintage riders/steel folk are more friendly?

I went with the local cycling group on a ride. My bike was my old faithful Schwinn Super Sport fixed gear, brakeless machine. I got bad looks from the carbon fiber riders. All were concerned about my stopping ability. I do believe in brakes, and will add one soon. I ride without a brake because I ride on back roads and intend to use it as a trainer. I dont want to slow down. I want to keep spinning. I commented to one large obese rider without thinking about his weight "I would be more concerned about your carbon fork failing than my braking." It seems the carbon fiber riders are mainly very fake people who don't race. I understand carbon is light as it gets. But These people are all riding on asian made crap. I sound like a broken record here but I am so sick of people appreciating injection molded plastic frames. There is no art. The engineering is pretty state of the art but the lack of art involved makes me sick. On the local ride we stopped at a popular market for water/snacks. I was sickened by all the cookie cutter frames. Then to my surprise were four custom made steal bikes. All of them were made 20 minutes from my house. I had no idea there was a frame builder in the area. I picked up one of the bikes. It was lighter than some of the TI/carbon bikes. Oh what a beauty it was. It just sickens me that people would rather look like elite pro racers than recreational cyclists. How many of the riders on carbon frames can generate the wattage like a pro? I'll beat the dead horse here and say support your local brazer. Another thing I notice about vintage riders is that we value function and not form. Most all vintage riders I know do all work themselves. The art of recycling old parts makes for very functional machines at a fraction of new cost. I am so sick of supporting a bike store that tell customers carbon is a better material. It is an inferior material. A carbon fiber frame is broken when it breaks. A steel frame can be repaired. Even if the frame is not repaired it still can be melted down into something else. Steel is better for the environment! Enough already give your modern carbon poseur hell!!!! Unless they really do climb and ride as fast as pro's.

Amen.

-Kurt

Yep.

Lame.

Truthfully, the most important thing to me is that people are riding bikes, regardless of the frame materials. I'm far more sickened by gas-guzzling SUVs than I am by non-steel frames. I do admit, however, to being puzzled during a benefit ride a couple of months ago, when I was one of the few riding an old steel Raleigh and a Brooks saddle. It also seemed like the aluminum/ti/cf crowd weren't having much fun, based on their grim looks and lack of friendliness. Light bikes, though.

Neal

Another thing I notice about vintage riders is that we value function and not form.

You haven't been reading this forum long, have you? :lol:

You're "preaching to the choir" here.;)

While I only ride steel bikes (fixed gear and roadie) I find your gross generalizations of riders who prefer other frame materials simplistic and perhaps a bit immature. We're all cyclist-live and let live. However only Steel Is Real!
BTW ther is nothing wrong with the high end stuff from asian manufacturers. Gerry

While I only ride steel bikes (fixed gear and roadie) I find your gross generalizations of riders who prefer other frame materials simplistic and perhaps a bit immature. We're all cyclist-live and let live. However only Steel Is Real!
BTW ther is nothing wrong with the high end stuff from asian manufacturers. Gerry


+1

Every time I go for a ride I have to remind myself that there's a reason each person I see chose the bike they are on. I don't know what it is and lots of times I don't understand it but it was their choice.

(Of course I admit that I smugly think I picked my bikes for all the right reasons.)

To me, judging them is as bad as them judging you.
Why do you care so much about what other people ride?

When I'm spinning down the road on my steel fixed gear it's not a collective experience.
They cannot feel what I'm feeling and I cannot judge or feel how their experiece is riding on Carbon, aluminum and even bamboo for that matter.

How can you possible say your experience is better. jon

I don't know about the riders, but I will say that those carbon fiber bikes lack character. That's what I enjoy about steel bikes. I was at a large organized ride here in Chicago in May, the annual Bike the Drive (about 15,000 riders, no joke), and while I did see some very nice newer rides, the bike I saw getting the most attention was a Schwinn Sprint from about 1974, the one with the totally awesome bent seat tube. This guy had a crowd aroound him, talking about his bike. Now that's a frame with some character.

Well, as they say on the interwebs, YMMV. I've met jerks on Reynolds 531 and really nice guys on all CF (including a few who pay the rent by riding bikes).

I think the big difference is we vintage riders are by and large, machinery addicts, and we love to talk to anybody who shares that appreciation. The Lance wannabees see their bikes as simply another part of their costume -- like their lycra knickers and peach-pit helmets. If you're not in costume, or if your wheels have more than 16 spokes, you don't exist to them.

Hobby versus snobby, if you will.

Look at the stuff we are riding .........:D
How could you not be happy !?

The only BF people I have met in real life and had extensive
PM/help sessions with are Classics themselves..
Exemplary people !! :beer:

I have to say, I don't mind what people ride, as long as they extend me the same curtesy. Anybody who gives me a hard time about riding a steel bike is an idiot, as I would be if I gave them a hard time for riding c/f. Their bikes don't sicken me - sure, they don't really turn me on, but apparently they turn THEM on, and that's fine.

why does it even matter, people have different wants and desires

I appreciate fine machinery, old or new. I ride vintage bikes (steel and aluminum) and I ride new bikes also (aluminum and cf). All have their good and not so good points. And I am just as friendly on one of my new bikes as I am on one of my old ones.

I don't know which is "better" but I know I prefer older bikes to newer. They just had so much style and were more beautiful machines for sure.;),,,,BD

I can appreciate both schools of thought. I have no great aversion to carbon fibre, Ti or Alu as frame
material, I just happen to prefer Steel.
There's snobbishness where ever you look. In CR land there are the Masioso those so enamoured
with Masi that anything else is cannon fodder, there are Brit snobs, francophile snobs . . . well
you get my drift.
Read all the "snob" threads in the Road forum, its not a phenomena that is exactly new.
I think that once you "prove" yourself (i.e. do a good ride) that snobbishness tends to evaporate.

In a perfect world it wouldn't matter what we ride, unfortunately we don't live in a
perfect world.

marty

This sounds alot like some religion discussions. To me, diversity of thought and preference is a GOOD thing; tribalism is a bad thing. I own and ride vintage steel exclusively, because I like the look, feel, and cost, but I have several friends and cordial acquaintances who ride newer bikes, including my pastor, with his 5-year-old titanium Lightspeed. I applaud anyone who rides a bicycle courteously and safely, irrespective of what equipment he/she happens to prefer.

I test rode a carbon bike once. As soon as I got on it, I began to get the overwhelming urge to buy new team kit, $1000 glasses and stop at the nearest Starbucks for a latte. As I passed others tooling around the block, I felt a hatred welling up from my pedals - how dare these mere peons ride those clunky old bikes in the same world as me on this lightweight satanic steed! A feeling of evil anticipation came upon me as I spotted a 6yr old girl on a pink steel bike with flower decals and bright white training wheels. I dialed it up to 400 watts and gave her the 'look' as I blew past and dropped her like a 6yr old on a kids bike with training wheels - 'that'll teach her' I thought to myself! Then, the ride was over and as soon as I got back to the bike shop and off that carbon creature, I regained my senses. These carbon bikes are evil, the devil's spawn, not the kind of ride a humble ole Fred should ever consider. Then, out of the corner of my eye I saw the devil take hold of yet another victim. OMG, it's the mother of the girl I just dropped, mounting that carbon fiber viper for a test ride...and giving me the 'look' already. NOOOOOOOOO!!!!!

I think the main cause for the 'atitude' was your attempting a group ride without brakes, I think a lot of people would have a problem with that...

As far as your statemnet 'But These people are all riding on asian made crap. I sound like a broken record here but I am so sick of people appreciating injection molded plastic frames. There is no art. The engineering is pretty state of the art but the lack of art involved makes me sick' ... have you ever seen a Colnago C-50?

Ride whatever you enjoy... Just don't expect everyone to agree with your value judgements...

I think the big difference is we vintage riders are by and large, machinery addicts, and we love to talk to anybody who shares that appreciation. The Lance wannabees see their bikes as simply another part of their costume -- like their lycra knickers and peach-pit helmets. If you're not in costume, or if your wheels have more than 16 spokes, you don't exist to them.

Hobby versus snobby, if you will.
+1

My sentiments exactly!:p but it is fun dropping a Lance wannabe when you are riding a fixie or an English 3speed:D I don't particularly like lycra, I only were cycling shorts on long haul tours, and seldom if ever wear jerseys. I will acknowledge any one on bike, no matter who they are.

Aaron:)

I test rode a carbon bike once. As soon as I got on it, I began to get the overwhelming urge to buy new team kit, $1000 glasses and stop at the nearest Starbucks for a latte. As I passed others tooling around the block, I felt a hatred welling up from my pedals - how dare these mere peons ride those clunky old bikes in the same world as me on this lightweight satanic steed! A feeling of evil anticipation came upon me as I spotted a 6yr old girl on a pink steel bike with flower decals and bright white training wheels. I dialed it up to 400 watts and gave her the 'look' as I blew past and dropped her like a 6yr old on a kids bike with training wheels - 'that'll teach her' I thought to myself! Then, the ride was over and as soon as I got back to the bike shop and off that carbon creature, I regained my senses. These carbon bikes are evil, the devil's spawn, not the kind of ride a humble ole Fred should ever consider. Then, out of the corner of my eye I saw the devil take hold of yet another victim. OMG, it's the mother of the girl I just dropped, mounting that carbon fiber viper for a test ride...and giving me the 'look' already. NOOOOOOOOO!!!!!

Nice. It has it all...400 watts, starbucks, lattes, the "look", Fred reference, etc. If there is a "post of the month" award...I hereby nominate this one. :D

Us steellovers might be friendly but I question the sanity of riding brakeless in a groupride. I rode last sunday with my (sole steelbike) Campy Athena bike with the original pads and had trouble braking in synch with the rest of the group(raining and those silly anodized open 4 rims). How you can stay with a group without brakes at stoplights and roundabouts is a bit beyond me.

Of the year, possibly.,,,,BD

To give the OP the benefit of the doubt, a strong and experienced fixed gear rider shouldn't have any trouble stopping his or her bike if it's a relatively smooth and gentle group ride. On the other hand, if I were on this ride, I'd get way the hell in front of the fixie. Nothing personal, of course. (And on my own fixie, I've mounted front and back brakes. But it's my commute bike and I'm a belt-and-suspenders kind of guy anyway.)

Back on topic, while I can't agree with the OP's implication that Steelers = Good and Friendly Folk while CF'ers = Arrogant Philistines, he does allude to an interesting thing that I've noticed. In some ways, cycling (esp. road cycling) is the New Golf. I'd suppose that when a well-heeled newbie decides to take up cycling, he goes into the LBS and says "I want one of those Tour Day France bikes" by which he means a carbon fiber, 10spd Dura Ace, 14 spoke wheel race bike.

And a lot of these guys aren't very strong or skilled riders ("All show and no go"), don't appreciate a finely built steel frame, or understand the sweet simplicity of a fixed gear. All they know is that some geezer showed up for the ride on an old bike with no brakes.

(But the good news is that some of these Yuppies fall in love with bikes and as they learn more about them begin to develop a respect and appreciation for the classics. )

True story:

My ride partner and I were drinking switches the other day at Ashland Coffee and Tea, the mid point of our regular ride. Now she is always bugging me about my rides; she rides a nice new Fuji, but when we stop at ACT it is always my bike (whichever it is) that gets the attention from other riders. On days that I ride The Vent Noir, she gives me crap all the way to Ashland about my bike bling and my attention getting tactics. On days I ride one of the PXs, stuff about having the most archiac bike there, etc. The Ross, the cheapest bike there, and so on.

Now this particular day I had chosen to ride my Eisentraut (thank you, fan thrift) which is badged as a CID and draped with first generation Dura-Ace. We got to the ACT and leaned our bikes on the deck there, alongside a mess of carbon-fiber and titanium rides; it was a nice day and it is a popular stop, full of bikers. She and I drank our switches out on the deck. As we drank, discussing her impending marriage (not to me), a gaggle(proper terminology?) of hard core lycra jersey wearing riders came up. One of them pointed to my bike and asked if I had ridden it in.

"Yes, it's mine"

"what is it?"

"It's an Eisentraut." I said.

"No way!" he exclaimed, turning to his pals and explaining just who Eisentraut is. They were duly impressed, and then we had a nice, ranging discussion, which included me telling them about the Alex Singer hidden away in an old ladies possession, not a mile away from where we sat. He was stunned there was even one in the state. We had a rambling disscussion, and they rode off. My ride partner was stewing no one even noticed her Fuji.

I've found most cyclists to be very nice about older steel rides, and some quite inquisitive. Often they are curious about the Brooks/Ideale/Wrights saddles that adorn my bikes (or are stunned Ross ever made a nice bike, or have never seen a nice early vintage Trek, or whatever). The only times I recall obvious attitudes about older bikes are in most of the local shops, and they just want to sell me some new piece of bike bling.

My partner grumbled at me about how she's getting a steel framed Colnago so she can put me in my place. Of course, she wants me to find it for her.

What's a "switches"?


My wife was riding her Motobecane Mixte around and a bunch of dudes on new shmancy bikes rode up next to her, or something, whatever... anyway, they thought her bike was really cool and were asking her about it but, get this, they didn't know what a mixte was. They had never seen a mixte before, apparently, and had no idea such a thing was made. I thought that was so odd that these dudes who were into some serious biking (apparently) had no idea what a mixte was. I draw no conclusions from that except that it was odd and kind of interesting.

"What's a "switches"?"

It's a RVA thing

http://www.switchbev.com/

Hype hype, they talk about hype negatively all over that site? Little do they know that they're purveyors of "Hype" themselves. Right down to their name, lol.,,,,BD

It just sickens me that people would rather look like elite pro racers than recreational cyclists.

+1 to that! I have no desire to look like anything other than what I am. That would be a middle aged guy who truly LOVES his old machines for their function and their beauty.

I have found that pretty much all cyclists that I have had any interaction with were kind and considerate people. I respect their choices in machine and attire as much as I hope they will respect mine.

Give me lugs anytime! (preferably chromed!)

"What's a "switches"?"

It's a RVA thing



does that extend east to Norfolk?
might have to check it out when I'm there next (Jan.)

marty

The OP sounds very unfriendly to me. Glad he's just a troll and not real.

Every time I go for a ride I have to remind myself that there's a reason each person I see chose the bike they are on. I don't know what it is and lots of times I don't understand it but it was their choice.

(Of course I admit that I smugly think I picked my bikes for all the right reasons.)

Wow, that's good. Very well put. Thanks.

Riding a fixed gear with no brakes in a paceline is a very bad idea. No matter how good a rider you are, there is absolutely no way you can stop a bike without a front brake as fast as a bike with a front and rear brake. Thus, in the event of a sudden stop (i.e. car, bike, kid, etc pulls in front of the paceline) you're going to hurt someone.

You really have no legitimate reason to be concerned about what frame material others in the group choose.

The others in the group do have a legitimate reason to be concerned about whether your bike has brakes.

I had my original 1987 Cannondale (Suntour) hanging on the garage wall when I bought my first "modern bike" . . . a 2005 Trek 1500 with Dura Ace, carbon fiber fork seat post/steering stem and handlebars. I have since bought two vintage Schwinns, a Claude Butler, and another old Cannondale. I hardly ride the new Trek. I have received nothing but oohs and aahs from all types of cyclists.

I dunno, I ride old steel because I'm a confirmed RETROGROUCH!http://user.chollian.net/~boonstra/gif/fiets870.gif

I have no aversion to new bikes. Some of the technology is great brifters and straight spokes and all. They certainly can make you a more efficient rider. But most of them have no heart, no artistry other than a graphic designers outlandish decal work. Possibly the next most satisfying thing to all the questions and attention an older ride gets is showing up on a 30 year old bike without all the unobtanium geegaws and waxing their butts on the group rides.

I have no aversion to new bikes. Some of the technology is great brifters and straight spokes and all. They certainly can make you a more efficient rider. But most of them have no heart, no artistry other than a graphic designers outlandish decal work. Possibly the next most satisfying thing to all the questions and attention an older ride gets is showing up on a 30 year old bike without all the unobtanium geegaws and waxing their butts on the group rides.
My point exactly! I absolutely love the lug frames and detest tig welds!

In 20 years when we're all riding ultralight plastic frames, you will look at your aluminum TIG welds and smile, thinking to yourself "Ah Taiwan...master craftsmen of bicycles to be sure."

In 20 years when we're all riding ultralight plastic frames, you will look at your aluminum TIG welds and smile, thinking to yourself "Ah Taiwan...master craftsmen of bicycles to be sure."
Nope, I plan on keeping my luggers in riding condition forever! Steel has a long lifespan re fatigue!:D

My wife was riding her Motobecane Mixte around and a bunch of dudes on new shmancy bikes rode up next to her, or something, whatever... anyway, they thought her bike was really cool and were asking her about it but, get this, they didn't know what a mixte was. They had never seen a mixte before, apparently, and had no idea such a thing was made. I thought that was so odd that these dudes who were into some serious biking (apparently) had no idea what a mixte was. I draw no conclusions from that except that it was odd and kind of interesting.

Perhaps it was your wife they found interesting, not the bike.

:lol:

-Kurt

I tend to ride by myself most of the the time, but have one experience to share. It was after a sweet ride of singletrack on my SS 29er MTB (steel of course). I was on my way home with the bike sitting in my rack in the back of my pickup truck. I was stopped at a light and a guy on a road bike road up next to me and said nice SS. I said thanks of course and then noticed what he was riding, a Waterford. I reply with "sweet bike, steel is real". He smiled and nodded and then the light turned green I drove off he road off.

Of all of my bikes I have 1 SS MTB, 2 geared road bikes, 3 track bikes, and one fixed gear road conversion that are all steel frames. Two of the bikes are older than I am (I am 28 btw), and will be around forever. I have already told a couple of people you will pry them from my cold dead hands (both of my Paramounts). My newest road bike is still 15 years old and is lugged steel. I do have two aluminum MTBs that I do ride and they even have a couple of CF parts here and there. I prefer the ride of steel and lugged steel just looks sexy as hell in my opinion. I get compliments from non-bike people on my vintage steel rides all of the time.

I am sometimes a retrokinda guy sometimes. I listen to my vinyl record collection played through a tube amp powering a pair of horn loaded speakers that are also older than I am. But, I absolutely love my Ipod so only retro on somethings.

If you're not in costume, or if your wheels have more than 16 spokes, you don't exist to them.
That made me think of a test I used to do (before becoming "bent") My '69 Clive Stuart is a "road" bike but has a tallish, short-reach stem with alloy 3 speed type bars on it. If I ride it "upright" and wave at the cf/ti riders, I don't exist! But if I ride the same bike with my elbows on the grips and my hands out front, when I wave, they wave back!!
Always makes me LOL!:roflmao:
.
.
whatever!:rolleyes:

That made me think of a test I used to do (before becoming "bent") My '69 Clive Stuart is a "road" bike but has a tallish, short-reach stem with alloy 3 speed type bars on it. If I ride it "upright" and wave at the cf/ti riders, I don't exist! But if I ride the same bike with my elbows on the grips and my hands out front, when I wave, they wave back!!
Always makes me LOL!

:roflmao: :beer: :roflmao:

Had it happen to me as well before.

Incedentally, we have quite a few CF and Alum. posers in town, probably more of them then actual roadies, so steel and/or a minimum spoke count of 28 per wheel is looked down upon by the majority of the other local riders.

I've been itching to try out a similar test as the good Doctor's - to swap the Mavic G 40 on my '86 Grand Prix for an FSA RD-80, then see what the results are. Alternately, I can take my '83 Peugeot PSV-10 out - that bike uses FSA RD-80s both front and back.

-Kurt

I commented to one large obese rider without thinking about his weight "I would be more concerned about your carbon fork failing than my braking." It seems the carbon fiber riders are mainly very fake people who don't race. I understand carbon is light as it gets. But These people are all riding on asian made crap.

Give me an effin break.

I like my 1975 schwinn continental with the 21 speeds just fine. Priced some new bikes and was surprised most cost more than my BMW

Ride what you like and try to like anybody that likes to ride...