Butterfield Double - Are you an innie or an outie?

[merider1]

So, today I was convinced that I can do the Butterfield Double (by my friend who called to see if I survived yesterday's ride) - or at least, I was convinced that I'm crazy enough to try and do it.

Therefore, show of hands...in or out? The ride is on February 17th, and I'd like to know who else on here is as nutty-as-a-fruitcake as I am.

Okay! So, here is the link:http://www.planetultra.com/butterfield/index.html

Let me know if you're an innie or an outie, and I'll get a list started and ask Cali to add it to the upcoming rides thread and DialTone to add it to the ride calendar. Ok, crazy riders, come out, come out wherever you are...:D

CRAZY AND GOING FOR IT:
merider1
Extort
Devilinblack
Rick@OCRR
Ronsmithjunior

MIGHT BE JUST CRAZY ENOUGH:
Tiffanie
Scootcore

[devilinblack]

I've been thinking about it a lot. I guess if I survive the Wells Fargo Century in January I may give the ButterFLOOD (Cali's phrase) ride a shot. Especially if the (in)famous ME is going to be there. ;)

[dauphin]

just don't hurt yourself

[Brandy]

I'm in? :eek: :p :D

[dauphin]

madness....

[Tiffanie]

::slowly raising hand::: :: pulling it back down again:: :eek: :eek: I've been pondering the idea.

[Extort]

I might be convinced to dive into this ride. I would want to make sure that all of the ladies that were looking forward to this ride are training properly, because choosing something like a Double Century should not be taken lightly...

Let me know if anyone has any questions or wants to get together for a training ride.

[Brandy]

Hey Phil...I have a question. What should we aim for as our longest ride prior to Butterfield? Most of us are doing Stagecoach on January 13th...that's 4 weeks out from the double. Suggestions?

[thomson]

Hey Phil...I have a question. What should we aim for as our longest ride prior to Butterfield? Most of us are doing Stagecoach on January 13th...that's 4 weeks out from the double. Suggestions?

Pardon me for jumping in...

I have heard anywhere between 1/2 to 3/4 of the distance should be done easily prior to the ride. I personally lean toward the 3/4 mark so about 150 miles. There are three main areas where I have seen people struggle on doubles.


Their legs give out. This is generally from not enough training or not eating enough during the ride. There is quite a difference between 100 and 200 miles especially if there are hills. The Butterfield is not that bad but there are climbs, After 10-12 hours in the saddle, they can become difficult.

Nutrition Deficiencies. Either not eating enough or eating different foods than one is accustomed. A tip here is do not try new foods/energy-drinks, etc. on ride day. Experiment ahead of time to see what works for you. A lot of people cannot stomach solid foods after a while. Find out what works for you. But you will need to shovel in the calories on this ride. To me, I just stuff away whatever is on the table. When I do non-organized doubles, I have to make a real conscience effort to eat.

Saddle issues. If your fit on the saddle is not perfect, it may cause you some real problems after an entire day. Some use balms. (I don't, blech) A friend of mine actually changes shorts somewhere on the ride. It really works for her. You will find out in your long training rides whether you will have an issue or not and hopefully, how to deal with it. Don't wait until ride day as it will be too late to find a solution.
If you want an aggressive schedule for stemming off the Stagecoach (your training for the double should start ahead of Stagecoach).

Week -4 - Stage Coach. Ride at least 30-50 miles the next day.
Week -3 - 120-130 miles
Week -2 - 150 miles (can substitute back to back centuries this weekend)
Week -1 - 130-140 miles
Game Day - Have fun

If you do this, you will have addressed all the aforementioned issues and developed solutions.

[thomson]

I've been thinking about it a lot. I guess if I survive the Wells Fargo Century in January I may give the ButterFLOOD (Cali's phrase) ride a shot. Especially if the (in)famous ME is going to be there.

The ButterFlood moniker was given to the 2005 Butterfield as it was pouring that day. As a participant, I can tell you that it totally lived up to that name. Even with all of that, I enjoyed the ride.

[tprevost]

Pardon me for jumping in...

I have heard anywhere between 1/2 to 3/4 of the distance should be done easily prior to the ride. I personally lean toward the 3/4 mark so about 150 miles. There are three main areas where I have seen people struggle on doubles.


Their legs give out. This is generally from not enough training or not eating enough during the ride. There is quite a difference between 100 and 200 miles especially if there are hills. The Butterfield is not that bad but there are climbs, After 10-12 hours in the saddle, they can become difficult.

Nutrition Deficiencies. Either not eating enough or eating different foods than one is accustomed. A tip here is do not try new foods/energy-drinks, etc. on ride day. Experiment ahead of time to see what works for you. A lot of people cannot stomach solid foods after a while. Find out what works for you. But you will need to shovel in the calories on this ride. To me, I just stuff away whatever is on the table. When I do non-organized doubles, I have to make a real conscience effort to eat.

Saddle issues. If your fit on the saddle is not perfect, it may cause you some real problems after an entire day. Some use balms. (I don't, blech) A friend of mine actually changes shorts somewhere on the ride. It really works for her. You will find out in your long training rides whether you will have an issue or not and hopefully, how to deal with it. Don't wait until ride day as it will be too late to find a solution.
If you want an aggressive schedule for stemming off the Stagecoach (your training for the double should start ahead of Stagecoach).

Week -4 - Stage Coach. Ride at least 30-50 miles the next day.
Week -3 - 120-130 miles
Week -2 - 150 miles (can substitute back to back centuries this weekend)
Week -1 - 130-140 miles
Game Day - Have fun

If you do this, you will have addressed all the aforementioned issues and developed solutions.

thompson,

thank you SO much for this info.... it is extremely helpful!

trac'

[Brandy]

thompson,

thank you SO much for this info.... it is extremely helpful!

trac'

+1...thank you so much thomson, this is exactly what I was looking for!

[tprevost]

+1...thank you so much thomson, this is exactly what I was looking for!

B... you can do that... piece of cake :rolleyes:

[big john]

Don't forget you will need lights and ankle reflectors. You might want to train some after dark to get used to it. Having done hundreds of centuries I have a word about doubles; NO.

[tprevost]

Don't forget you will need lights and ankle reflectors. You might want to train some after dark to get used to it. Having done hundreds of centuries I have a word about doubles; NO.

good reminder... I'm not doing this one but think I may be doing Solvang.... I just wanna do one; not the triple crown :rolleyes:

[big john]

good reminder... I'm not doing this one but think I may be doing Solvang.... I just wanna do one; not the triple crown :rolleyes:
If you're going to do one, Solvang is a good choice. The prettiest countryside, not too much climbing, and people do fast times there. 12 of my friends did it together 2 years ago and all finished around 12 1/2 hours. They're all faster than me, I probably would take hours more. Last year it poured rain and many people quit. The Grand Tour is supposed to be the easiest, minimal climbing and held in summer when daylight hours are long.

[tprevost]

If you're going to do one, Solvang is a good choice. The prettiest countryside, not too much climbing, and people do fast times there. 12 of my friends did it together 2 years ago and all finished around 12 1/2 hours. They're all faster than me, I probably would take hours more. Last year it poured rain and many people quit. The Grand Tour is supposed to be the easiest, minimal climbing and held in summer when daylight hours are long.

yeah, I was thinking of the grand tour as well but at least if I do Solvang, I'll have done at least 3 - 4organized centuries in January/February along with several longer rides... Butterfield is just too close for me to get ready... it takes me forever to build mileage.

[Rick@OCRR]

I've ridden the last two Butterfloods, and I'll probably ride the 2007 edition as well :) .

Yes, it has rained on the last two, but at least last year it was only one storm (as we were descending Antonio toward Ortega Highway), and it cleared up after that.

Basically, Butterfield's worst climbing (for me) was right after lunch, in the Fallbrook area. I didn't have enough climbing miles in, and I really suffered there. That bit took so much out of me that I slowed down all the way into Lake Elsinore (about dusk).

We stopped there at a Jack N' the Box for a cup of coffee, and that really got me going again. I was back up to speed into Tom's farm, and then into Yorba Linda for the finish.

So I would say, yes, take all of thomson's advice (above), plus be sure to get in lots of climbing miles (unless you're just a natural climber . . . which I'm not) so the Fallbrook stage doesn't do to you what it did to me in 2006! In 2005 Butterflood was an out-and-back since the floods had taken out part of the route, so we didn't have the Fallbrook stage that year.

Best Regs,
Rick / OCRR

[tprevost]

I've ridden the last two Butterfloods, and I'll probably ride the 2007 edition as well :) .

Yes, it has rained on the last two, but at least last year it was only one storm (as we were descending Antonio toward Ortega Highway), and it cleared up after that.

Basically, Butterfield's worst climbing (for me) was right after lunch, in the Fallbrook area. I didn't have enough climbing miles in, and I really suffered there. That bit took so much out of me that I slowed down all the way into Lake Elsinore (about dusk).

We stopped there at a Jack N' the Box for a cup of coffee, and that really got me going again. I was back up to speed into Tom's farm, and then into Yorba Linda for the finish.

So I would say, yes, take all of thomson's advice (above), plus be sure to get in lots of climbing miles (unless you're just a natural climber . . . which I'm not) so the Fallbrook stage doesn't do to you what it did to me in 2006! In 2005 Butterflood was an out-and-back since the floods had taken out part of the route, so we didn't have the Fallbrook stage that year.

Best Regs,
Rick / OCRR

What roads do they ride in Fallbrook? Its definately hilly there.... hmmm... maybe I should volunteer on this ride :rolleyes: and then ride Solvang....

[thomson]

To add to my previous post where I only addressed a weekly ride. During the week, I typically would ride intervals or hills. But a friend of mine would only go to the gym a couple of days a week to do spin class. We would do a long ride on Saturday but that is all the training she seemed to need. We finished 9 doubles together and she had zero problems on any of them.,

[Brandy]

I think I am going to shoot for your suggestions on building mileage Thomson...in fact, if I can get a double metric in sometime before Stagecoach, I think that would be even better. My favorite Spinning instructor returns on Friday, so I'll have two Spinning classes a week in addition to at least two 25-35 milers (M/W rides with Tiff while the kids are in preschool) and then a long weekend ride and a recovery ride the next day. Though now that I think of it...I may be able to get in more ride time during their two week break, since I won't have to get them off to school in the mornings and can start out earlier than normal. This might work out nicely!

[thomson]

I think I am going to shoot for your suggestions on building mileage Thomson...in fact, if I can get a double metric in sometime before Stagecoach, I think that would be even better. My favorite Spinning instructor returns on Friday, so I'll have two Spinning classes a week in addition to at least two 25-35 milers (M/W rides with Tiff while the kids are in preschool) and then a long weekend ride and a recovery ride the next day. Though now that I think of it...I may be able to get in more ride time during their two week break, since I won't have to get them off to school in the mornings and can start out earlier than normal. This might work out nicely!

I hear there are great double metric routes in Ventura County.

[Brandy]

LOL...I'm sure! I hate driving though...it's a pain in the ass with the kids and childcare, so I try to stick close to starting near home.

I think I'm going to snag January 6th or 7th as a Butterfield Training Double Metric if anyone wants to join me. I don't think there's another ride planned that day. M.E. I'm going to offer Phil's house if you want to come down the night before. ;)

[tprevost]

LOL...I'm sure! I hate driving though...it's a pain in the ass with the kids and childcare, so I try to stick close to starting near home.

I think I'm going to snag January 6th or 7th as a Butterfield Training Double Metric if anyone wants to join me. I don't think there's another ride planned that day. M.E. I'm going to offer Phil's house if you want to come down the night before. ;)

I may be up for this one... depending on the route...

[Brandy]

My thoughts were leaning toward an out and back to Solana Beach, I think that was 65 miles...IIRC. That route is good unsupported, lots of places to stop for snacks/water, etc. :)

[tprevost]

My thoughts were leaning toward an out and back to Solana Beach, I think that was 65 miles...IIRC. That route is good unsupported, lots of places to stop for snacks/water, etc. :)

Okay then, barring any childcare issues, I'm in... as long as its a Saturday... I'll probably keel over, but if that's the case, I'll have someone come pick me up :rolleyes:

[Brandy]

We'll just throw you on a train to get you back. Please plan to keel over in Solana Beach, Oceanside, San Clemente or San Juan Capistrano and we should be good. :p ;)

[tprevost]

We'll just throw you on a train to get you back. Please plan to keel over in Solana Beach, Oceanside, San Clemente or San Juan Capistrano and we should be good. :p ;)

okay then! I don't think the train is an option for me... I'll have to have a SAG on call for that day :p Since that is relatively flat though, I think I'll be able to squeeze it out... ;)

[Tiffanie]

My thoughts were leaning toward an out and back to Solana Beach, I think that was 65 miles...IIRC. That route is good unsupported, lots of places to stop for snacks/water, etc. :)

Sounds good to me, B. :)

[merider1]

I might be convinced to dive into this ride. I would want to make sure that all of the ladies that were looking forward to this ride are training properly, because choosing something like a Double Century should not be taken lightly...

Let me know if anyone has any questions or wants to get together for a training ride.
Well, now, Extort, you know that I am always up for a good, long, hard ride with you, especially if I thought it would improve my technique, endurance and pure enjoyment of spending time in that saddle. If you really want to ensure that I don't take your personal training lightly (since we all know that these doubles should be taken very seriously), I'd even welcome during one of our sessions for you to stay right on my rear to direct my strokes and posture. I would be most appreciative to have your direct input on my saddle position as well. I've already been told that I rock my hips from side to side widely while riding, so any way you can help straighten that out...heck, I think I'd even pay you for that kind of service.

Ah...training season has officially begun and I am now so very, very excited that Extort will have a hand in my process. Very excited. :D

[tprevost]

Sounds good to me, B. :)

Tiff, you are doing Butterfield.. right???? :p

[roadfix]

As far as training goes.....I usually do several 50 to 100 mile twice weekly rides max leading up to a double century. This has worked for me well, but I've only done easy doubles.
Is Doublefield considered easy? How does it compare to the GT Lowland double, for instance?

[Brandy]

As far as training goes.....I usually do several 50 to 100 mile rides max leading up to a double century. This has worked for me well, but I've only done easy doubles.
Is Doublefield considered easy? How does it compare to the GT Lowland double, for instance?

California Triple Crown Doubles Ranked by Elevation Gain

1 18,800 Devil Mountain Double 207 Radically High
2 16,400 Mulholland Double 202 Radically High
3 16,000 Terrible Two 197 Radically High
4 15,200 Heartbreak Double 202 Radically High
5 14,600 Bass Lake Powerhouse Double 200 Extremely High
6 14,500 Mt. Tam Double 197 Extremely High
7 13,800 Central Coast Double 209 Extremely High
8 12,600 Knoxville Fall Classic Double 202 High
9 10,100 Solvang Autumn Double 202 High
10 10,000 Eastern Sierra Double 198 High
11 9,100 Death Valley Fall Double 196 High
12 9,000 Death Valley Spring Double 197 High
13 8,400 Davis Double 203 Medium
14 8,300 Grand Tour - Highland Double 200 Medium
15 8,200 Butterfield Double 197 Medium
16 6,800 Solvang Spring Double 190 Medium
17 5,800 Hemet D.C. 198 Medium
18 5,200 Grand Tour - Lowland Double 200 Medium

[roadfix]

^^^Hey thanks Brandy!
Anyone know if Doublefield has some climbs as steep as Potrero on the GT Highland double?


EDIT: I meant Butterfield, not Doublefield!!!...:D

[Tiffanie]

Tiff, you are doing Butterfield.. right???? :p

Sure. I think. Maybe. :D

[Rick@OCRR]

>>What roads do they ride in Fallbrook?
>>Its definately hilly there.... hmmm...
>>maybe I should volunteer on this ride and then ride Solvang....

Well tprevost,

I don't honestly remember the road names very well . . . maybe Stagecoach and Reese, . . . Gumdrop or something like that? But if you know Fallbrook, you know what kind of hills I mean. Some fairly steep yet not horribly long, and others long but not horribly steep. Still, when they're all strung together like that, it really took a bite out of my average speed!

Not to discourage you from trying Butterfield, but just as an FYI that there's over 8,000 feet of climbing and it felt (to me) like at least 6,000 were in the Fallbrook area, i.e. right after lunch.

Best Regs,
Rick / OCRR

[Rick@OCRR]

No, nothing as steep as Potrero!

[tprevost]

>>What roads do they ride in Fallbrook?
>>Its definately hilly there.... hmmm...
>>maybe I should volunteer on this ride and then ride Solvang....

Well tprevost,

I don't honestly remember the road names very well . . . maybe Stagecoach and Reese, . . . Gumdrop or something like that? But if you know Fallbrook, you know what kind of hills I mean. Some fairly steep yet not horribly long, and others long but not horribly steep. Still, when they're all strung together like that, it really took a bite out of my average speed!

Not to discourage you from trying Butterfield, but just as an FYI that there's over 8,000 feet of climbing and it felt (to me) like at least 6,000 were in the Fallbrook area, i.e. right after lunch.

Best Regs,
Rick / OCRR

I actually don't intend to do Butterfield but if I know the roads, then I can get the BF group over here to ride some of them... I do an out an back down 395 that is probably a good example although there are several other routes that are much hillier (I'll be trying them soon, so I'll see for myself). I wonder if anyone has a route sheet from last year???

[thomson]

I actually don't intend to do Butterfield but if I know the roads, then I can get the BF group over here to ride some of them... I do an out an back down 395 that is probably a good example although there are several other routes that are much hillier (I'll be trying them soon, so I'll see for myself). I wonder if anyone has a route sheet from last year???

I thought I did, I am still looking for it. Here is a map that I did a couple of years ago. Maybe you can discern the route from it
http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o229/thomson900/butterfield.jpg

[tprevost]

I thought I did, I am still looking for it. Here is a map that I did a couple of years ago. Maybe you can discern the route from it
http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o229/thomson900/butterfield.jpg

I can't tell anything specific except it looks like it sticks pretty close to 15 and then goes around the temecula wine country... it actually looks like a pretty nice route :rolleyes:

[merider1]

M.E. I'm going to offer Phil's house if you want to come down the night before. ;)
Oh, so you're offering Phil are you? :p Great, I'm in! Also, Brandy, try and come out for the Bloat Ride if possible. That would be a great training ride for you (GMR & Baldy can't be beat, and if you don't want to go all the way to Baldy, climbing GMR is still a great training ride!) :)

[merider1]

I've been thinking about it a lot. I guess if I survive the Wells Fargo Century in January I may give the ButterFLOOD (Cali's phrase) ride a shot. Especially if the (in)famous ME is going to be there. ;)
You'll survive just fine, Stephen! So, I'm adding you to the Crazy list! :D

[Brandy]

Oh, so you're offering Phil are you? :p Great, I'm in! Also, Brandy, try and come out for the Bloat Ride if possible. That would be a great training ride for you (GMR & Baldy can't be beat, and if you don't want to go all the way to Baldy, climbing GMR is still a great training ride!) :)

Yes...I'm generous like that...offering Phil's services, errrrrrrrrr...lodging, to you. ;) I have the bloat ride on my calendar, pending childcare...which is the story of my life. :p

[merider1]

Yes...I'm generous like that...offering Phil's services, errrrrrrrrr...lodging, to you. ;) I have the bloat ride on my calendar, pending childcare...which is the story of my life. :p
Awesome! - that will be a good kick off and then the double metric on Jan. 6th. :D

[merider1]

As far as training goes.....I usually do several 50 to 100 mile twice weekly rides max leading up to a double century. This has worked for me well, but I've only done easy doubles.
Is Doublefield considered easy? How does it compare to the GT Lowland double, for instance?
George, I did the lowland fine. I did train my arse off, I admit. But it wasn't a problem. If I can do Butterfield, come on - you MOST certainly can! Just maybe not on your fixie. :o :D

[merider1]

If you're going to do one, Solvang is a good choice. The prettiest countryside, not too much climbing, and people do fast times there. 12 of my friends did it together 2 years ago and all finished around 12 1/2 hours. They're all faster than me, I probably would take hours more. Last year it poured rain and many people quit. The Grand Tour is supposed to be the easiest, minimal climbing and held in summer when daylight hours are long.
Trac - I agree with John on both his comments above, although I would encourage you to do the Lowland first. The LA Wheelman are topnotch in their organization of that ride and there is the least climbing (I think a total of 4,500 max).

[roadfix]

Just maybe not on your fixie. :o :D

I think you've answered what I had in mind...:p
I was trying to compare the two rides since the GT Lowland double was so fixie friendly.

[merider1]

I think you've answered what I had in mind...:p
I was trying to compare the two rides since the GT Lowland double was so fixie friendly.
Well, I've heard it is close to 9K feet of climbing (Rick says 8K and he's done it, so maybe? I'm going to contact PU to inquire). Either way, if you want to do that much climbing on a fixie, dude, you got my respect! ;)

[Rick@OCRR]

I just checked the Planet Ultra site, and Butterfield took me 16 hr. 23 min. last year. By comparison, I did Spring Solvang in 13 hr. 30 min. so yes, I would say Butterfield is significantly more difficult (at least for me) than Spring Solvang.

Best Regs,
Rick / OCRR

[tprevost]

Trac - I agree with John on both his comments above, although I would encourage you to do the Lowland first. The LA Wheelman are topnotch in their organization of that ride and there is the least climbing (I think a total of 4,500 max).

I think I'm gonna aim for Solvang... the lowland sounds easier but I need a few hills to keep from going crazy being bored...

Solvang is relatively easy compared to butterfield... I just e-mailed PU to see what I could do volunteer-wise for butterfield since you all will be riding ;)