Classic & Vintage - My Latest Bright Idea, Your Opinions Please

My Universal brake hoods are old and a bit nasty. NOS replacements will run $40-50 :eek: and Dia Compes will fit, but they won't have the right logo.

My day job is designing products, mostly medical devices, and I can pretty much reverse engineer anything, it's fun. I can get a low cost mold made ($300-500) and start making reproductions. I'm guessing part cost may be about $10 a pair. Do you think there is any market at $20 a pair? I would like to get the tooling costs back.

Please note I would mold in the word "Reproduction" discreetly on the hood so they could not be passed as NOS.

This could be done for any brand but I would stay away from active brands like Campy and Shimano. They probably wouldn't care about my penny-ante operation, but it is still illegal and unethical. Someone may even own the rights to the Universal logo but since they are out of business and since this isn't about making money I would take the risk, I just want inexpensive hoods.

I would have thought you'd do alright out of old Weinmann and Universal hoods. I'd certainly be interested.

I wish someone would make campy world logo replicas

I wish someone would make campy world logo replicas

I believe that at one point someone was making reproductions of the world logo
hoods and that Campy stepped in pretty quickly and quashed that idea.
There's some references to it in the CR archives but not quite the whole story.

marty

edit: search CR archives for " the Italian bully" it's an interesting read

I think that would be a great idea and fun to boot. Worse comes to worse, you have some $300 brake hoods. :)

I'd pay $20.00 for something that would fit the GB brake lever bodies on my Holland. :)

I wish someone would make campy world logo replicas

As I said in the OP, you don't want to mess with trademark law. If I did used the Campy logo, as lotek wrote, they would probably contact me quickly with a letter saying cease and desist, if not, we will sue you silly. I believe US law permits damages of up to 3x gross sales. You get the warning letter first because the lawyers would cost more than the damages won.

I'm not an IP attorney but I think you'd be okay with a design that is inpired by a classic design. See the Cane Creek SCR-5 aero brake. Got that Campy look and feel but CC makes no claim or even implies that it's a a Campy-style hood. (They just let us internet cyclists do that for them....)

I use those Euro-Asia Imports no logo Campy record hoods. I am not bothered by the lack of logo, so if you made others without logo I would be thrilled to get SOMETHING that actually fit and worked. If you have to have a logo, spend $$$$ for NOS.

Great idea! :D

I say +1 and please DO IT!! After all that talktalkandtalk about reproduction Campy world logo hoods I'd be thrilled to just see somebody actually MAKE something for a change. And since you're not in it for big profits, I bet you'll do a grand job and might even recoup your costs...eventually...just be patient, the market is very small for this stuff when all is said and done. My 2 more cents: the Ame hoods were molded of either PVC or Kraton and proved much more durable than true gum rubber hoods, so if durability is a goal, do a little research into the materials options, please (I do think PVC is a nasty plastic, but if it turns out to be the best choice for this...) We, your potential customers, salute your initiative, sir!

Go for it. I'll buy.

My 2 more cents: the Ame hoods were molded of either PVC or Kraton and proved much more durable than true gum rubber hoods, so if durability is a goal, do a little research into the materials options, please (I do think PVC is a nasty plastic, but if it turns out to be the best choice for this...) We, your potential customers, salute your initiative, sir!

Actually, the process I was imagining to keep costs low would be to use a silicon mold and use polyurethane as the material. It is very durable and it is pretty easy to match color and durameter. The mold is good for about 100 parts, then it starts to fall apart. If demand ws great enough, you could move to an aluminum mold for $3,000-5,000 and a $5 part cost. That would last a few hundred thousand parts and would use a thermoplastic like Santropene. I don't see demand getting that great.

Go for it. Keep production on a small scale- under the radar.

I would guess you could do very well with Universal repros. Gum with blue lettering and white with red lettering would be killer. Don't forget the little "hat" for the adjusters too, in black and gum.

BTW, I believe the ones available for years in the blue Vittoria boxes are repros already.

The Euro-Asia Campagnolo fit compatable are not good enough, the ones I have seen have the mold parting lines in the wrong regions and just do not cut it. And the color is too dark.

A Campagnolo "replicant" hood with better detailing and no logo would be very happy I think. A Universal Brand hood (maybe just the oval outline?) and or some other text would be useful as well, do not forget the little rubber hoods that finish the hood at the cable as seen on some years, trim levels of them.

Another Idea is a Campagnolo fitting hood that adds meat above the lever body, most guys I see do not have hands that fit in the depression of the original too well.

Mafac gum hoods are also hard to find, won't even discuss the colored Mafac half hoods... I wanted a red pair, a few times on ebay they sold for scary dollars.

i need a pair of these RIGHT NOW !
http://static.flickr.com/139/317539593_bd469dbf6b.jpg

This sounds like a great idea. You would undoubtedly be discreet in your advertising--as Hobartlemagne says, under the radar. Perhaps just a discreet notice here that ersatz hoods are available, send a PM...

East Hill

Excellent idea - not only for the Universals, but for the Campagnolo Record/NR/Super Record hoods too. The current repros available out there are too thick, and have an unsightly mold line down the side. Perhaps a circular logo to represent the globe logo with "Reproduction" in cursive would suffice?

-Kurt

Very good idea. I would buy a cuple of pairs for my Universal Brakes. I have bought NOS sets on ebay for around 25 $ but those were the newer (later9 versions). I need the older ones.
BTW I just bought a whole load of Shimano repro hoods in white. I tried and they also fit Weinmann bodies quite well. Those are copies of 600 Arabesque or DA gums. They might fit GB levers since I recall these were similir ti Weinmann.
http://www.wooljersey.com/gallery/v/Drexl/slaes/IMG_4281.JPG.html

If you are in need let me know. I will ship to the US and it will not be expensive.

can i place an order for shimano D-ace EX / 600 EX gum flavor hoods? non aero, of course.

:)


cheers

:beer:

how bout advertise "reproduction" regardless of weather the product says reproduction.
Or- put it on the inside of the mold, so they dont show when on a bike.

If I were going to produce a small run of reproduction world logo type hoods
I'd probably contact Campy US (or campy Italy) and ask about it. I would imagine
that the issue isn't the hoods themselves but the campy logo. I'd ask what they
would approve, as many folks have said I'd take a couple of pairs of hoods, even
if they didn't have the logo. I've seen the EA hoods, they're terrible, I use Modolo
(either the anatomic or regular) if I have to replace hoods.

Marty

I would imagine that the issue isn't the hoods themselves but the campy logo.

There is a way around that:

http://www.jaysmarine.com/Repro_globelogo.jpg

-Kurt

works for me!

I wanted to post an update. I finished the computer model and did some quick renderings for your opinions. Please note the color is an approximation and will be matched at the time of molding. Next will be making a rapid prototype to check fit and quotes for molding.

http://www.h3odesign.com/Misc_Images/05_Universal_Hood.jpg
http://www.h3odesign.com/Misc_Images/04_Universal_Hood.jpg
http://www.h3odesign.com/Misc_Images/03_Universal_Hood.jpg
http://www.h3odesign.com/Misc_Images/02_Universal_Hood.jpg
http://www.h3odesign.com/Misc_Images/01_Universal_Hood.jpg

I had this idea
Sounds cool. I'd buy a pair in natural gum but the little hoods for Uni are easy enough to get on ebay for
under $10
Could you just typo the name ..would that be enough?
like
Campagnolo to Campagnola

iab, hang onto your hat; this is exactly how I ended up with a vintage decal business. You won't believe how fast things can snowball. That said, good luck -- a terrific idea.

Now if these guys would quit bugging me for decals for a minute, I could look into my vintage luggage repro idea...

They look great! Love that "better than real" look of computer modeling...one tiny nit to pick: in view 3 looking at the underside leading edge of the "floor" of the hood where it meets the sides, I find that detent to be a weak point that usually tears, especially since it gets stressed when stretching to install/remove the hood. What about just "blending" that juncture with the sides. add a little more material and eliminate the sharp line that can initiate tearing? I know it would be incorrect, but...or how about just increasing the thickness of the floor overall to add a bit of "meat"? Or course, I'm not an engineer and don't play one on TV...

I'd be up for a set of Universals for sure.

They look great! Love that "better than real" look of computer modeling...one tiny nit to pick: in view 3 looking at the underside leading edge of the "floor" of the hood where it meets the sides, I find that detent to be a weak point that usually tears, especially since it gets stressed when stretching to install/remove the hood. What about just "blending" that juncture with the sides. add a little more material and eliminate the sharp line that can initiate tearing? I know it would be incorrect, but...or how about just increasing the thickness of the floor overall to add a bit of "meat"? Or course, I'm not an engineer and don't play one on TV...

Thanks for the input. If nobody else objects, I can put a gusset in the edge to reinforce the transition.

No objection here. Now I realize that what you show is just a rendering, but those look like they have more material than the original. That is they look thicker. Is that the case?

Now I realize that what you show is just a rendering, but those look like they have more material than the original. That is they look thicker.

It's an optical illusion. The shadowing doesn't help matters, but the extra width on the sides is only at the front edge. The top edge of the lever opening on View #4 should show this.

-Kurt

No objection here. Now I realize that what you show is just a rendering, but those look like they have more material than the original. That is they look thicker. Is that the case?


Therein lies the rub my friend. I did the reverse engineering with hood in REALLY bad condition. I took some educated guesses on dimensions based on those hoods and the brake lever. In some places I am probably up to + .5 mm over the original. I will need good hoods to finalize the dimensions but these will do for getting quotes, which could put the kibosh on this project very quickly if they are high.

Also, as with swimming in cold water, there will be shrinkage in the molding process.:D

Could you just typo the name ..would that be enough?
like
Campagnolo to Campagnola

Too close for comfort. I believe there is also a trendy furnishings store that is named Campagnola, or something to that extent.

Best to go with the Reproduction script. Nobody will ever know it says "Reproduction" until you tell them.

Take care,

-Kurt

Therein lies the rub my friend. I did the reverse engineering with hood in REALLY bad condition. I took some educated guesses on dimensions based on those hoods and the brake lever. In some places I am probably up to + .5 mm over the original. I will need good hoods to finalize the dimensions but these will do for getting quotes, which could put the kibosh on this project very quickly if they are high.

Also, as with swimming in cold water, there will be shrinkage in the molding process.:D

How much of a hurry are you to do this? I might be persuaded to remove one of the NOS hoods from my Peugeot's brakes and send it to you for reference.

http://209.190.31.210/gallery/d/156400-2/P5291848.JPG

I think it would be beneficial and I think you can see from this pic there are some subtle differences between what is rendered and the real deal. In my eyes a bit too square in the front. But if you are going to do this, you may as well get it bang on right as much as is realistic. FWIW, I measured the material thickness of the side as best I could with them mounted. 1.5mm. But at the same time, a bit more material might be good. I may seem picky (ask mswantak) but if you plan to sell these, they will sell a lot easier if done right. Get your quotes for the project. If too high, then no point in me sending the hood to you. BTW, if hit the link in my sig, you will find a larger version of this same picture in the PX-10 folder.

Lynn, thank you for the offer, I may take you up on it. First are the quotes, I probably won't get them until after the holidays. I got a few model shops I have used, maybe I will get lucky and one will be a vintage nut. The materials are pretty low cost, its the time that raises the price.

Wow, they look pretty nice in the renderings. I could use a black set for the Coppi I recently picked up.

Wow, they look pretty nice in the renderings. I could use a black set for the Coppi I recently picked up.

Thanks for resurrecting the thread. It got busy over the holidays. The quotes I got for the parts were outrageous, I decided I will mold them myself, it ain't exactly rocket science. My goal is to have parts done by mid-March. I'll let all of you know how they turn out.

I think this is a really cool idea and I want a pair.

I have a friend that works for a company called ProtoMold -- They make small runs of injection molded plastic parts. I'm sure there are a few of these companies around. http://www.protomold.com/

Whether you want to use a company like that or do it yourself, I suggest you PM me and I will give you Gus's contact information. He works with customers to refine their designs to make them work with ProtoMold's technology. This is usually stuff like "you have to make this radius a little bigger" or "Yeah... that needs to be tapered like this..." He might be able to give you a little advice on some tweaks to make it work a little better.

Oh, and I really like Cudak888's logo for you but I think the text should read, "Riproduzione" which is Italian for "Reproduction."

I am familar with Protomold, they are a good company and I see them at a lot of the trade shows I attend. Right now, I am going to make a silicone mold, it should last about 40-50 parts. If demand is high enough and I want to produce 1000s of parts, I will get an aluminum mold cut.

iab, hang onto your hat; this is exactly how I ended up with a vintage decal business. You won't believe how fast things can snowball. That said, good luck -- a terrific idea.

Now if these guys would quit bugging me for decals for a minute, I could look into my vintage luggage repro idea...

Unlikely. :)

Thanks for resurrecting the thread. It got busy over the holidays. The quotes I got for the parts were outrageous, I decided I will mold them myself, it ain't exactly rocket science. My goal is to have parts done by mid-March. I'll let all of you know how they turn out.


Wow, that would be great to have replacements for the Coppi. I'll start looking for the blue paint to match the color that's inside the Universal logo on the pair I have. I'm sure there are lots of people looking for them.

The problem with the Euro-Asia hoods is that they compromised quite a bit on the partline scheme throughout, saved money on the mold and it shows.

A Universal hood, (do not forget the vrsion with the extra little conical hood for the cable in black would be nice and I think Universal is gone as an enterprise, best to check would have a market but the big C is where the volume is.

Regarding Campagnolo hoods, a "no logo" version with minimal changes like a better fit at the lever opening (did I say that?) and /or a bit more meat on top, as Campagnolo was the best at the time but suffers ergonomically compared to many modern levers... would be nice.

Of course I was riding a Shimano Dura-Ace EX equipped bike yesterday and lamented to myself that the hoods are starting to turn.

At least one other set of Universal hoods.

Here is a photo of what's on my Coppi. Old and crumbly but all I've got. You can see my need...

Anything new on this thread?

I got some Campy hoods to model and I am very late in returning them. I have been slammed lately with work.

There is a way around that:

http://www.jaysmarine.com/Repro_globelogo.jpg

-Kurt
I like this idea. Now I can get email updates:)