Advocacy & Safety - College area

I'll start off saying that tonight was the 2nd time I've had my bike hit by a car this semester..

I live about 5 blocks off my campus and so its easy for me to commute to class/work on my bike. The roads are setup decently with bike paths although no driver ever seems to notice them..

Same spot was tonights accident as the one I had earlier a couple months ago, cars pull out going right into a 1 way street where I need to turn left into. So usually the driver is only looking towards the left and not seeing me come in on their right. We'll b/c of this I decided to slow way down for a good 5 seconds before I go to the intersection, but this did nothing as I was passing the front of her car she decided it was a good time to pull into the road. Luckily the only damage done was my rear wheel being bent on my mountain bike.

After this I stopped to see the damage and she wouldn't even acknowledge me and drove off. I'm about to the point where I am sick of how some drivers pay 0 attention to anything besides other cars on the road.

What are some ideas for things I can do to ride safer? Would having an airzound even do anything? If this happens again I'll try to get a plate number or talk to the driver. Is there anything that could be done in the future to say replace parts? What kind of trouble could I get in if say I took a piece of scrap iron rod and hit their car?

sorry.. just a bit frustrated

cars pull out going right into a 1 way street where I need to turn left into. So usually the driver is only looking towards the left and not seeing me come in on their right.

I'm not sure I follow, but just to be sure, you're not riding against traffic are you? If you are, that's a big part of your problem.


Would having an airzound even do anything?

Yes! I used mine twice last night on unattentive motorists.

I'm not sure I follow, but just to be sure, you're not riding against traffic are you? If you are, that's a big part of your problem.



Yes, that's my question too. If you are turning left onto a side street from a two-way street, you should be going past the car and passing on their left as you complete the turn. I'm just not seeing how they are turning into you if you are where safety and traffic laws require you to be.

here is a pic of the street layout. I'm the blue oval in the bike path. I know the bike path seems to be on the wrong side of the road, but that is where it is, the street gets a lot of traffic especially in the morning and evenings
http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d66/epix1718/road11.gif

Ay pues.

No, you're right. That bike lane is on the wrong side of the road. I wouldn't ride in it, no matter what the markings and signs may say. Wow.

Tough call - It's probably better to ride on the right hand side of the one way - I think you'll get hit regularly at that spot.

Another idea is to manouver around a left turning car (when road design is this bad - there are no rules of the road IMHO) so that they don't cross your path. However, you need to have a good sight line to be sure that a) there is no car behind the one turning, or b) you don't cut off a car turning right into the road you are turning left into.

Probably the best option is to just wait until cars are past - or tap the hood of the car turning left lightly. That would probably be my choice.

Finally - you should write a letter to the college and complain about their layout at that spot, mentioning that you have been hit twice in the same way in a semester. Campuses often have brutal road/bikepath/pedpath layouts.

EDIT I just looked at that layout again. If those streets are busy, people are going to get killed. Write that letter - I imagine you're not the only one who's been hit. My last suggestion - avoid this intersection, if you can.

Is the bike lane marked for 2-way bike traffic?
I agree with caloso. Doesn't look like a safe situation.

If she hit you and drove off, even if there are no injuries, it's a hit-and-run. Next time get her plate number.

No, you're right. That bike lane is on the wrong side of the road. I wouldn't ride in it, no matter what the markings and signs may say. Wow.
I've seen marked "bike lanes" on the wrong side of the road. It's an insanely bad idea because although the driver should look where they're going as they turn, their focus will be on the line of cars in the one way street.

You have a number of options. One is to take a different route. Safety is that important. I actually take a 3.5 mile detour (7 mi RT) just because of a couple hundred yards of road that I consider unsafe.

If that doesn't work for you, there are a couple other options. The most obvious is to stop and cross as a ped. That will cost you a half minute tops. Another possibility which I don't think is a particularly good idea is to make your turn BEHIND the car that is turning rather than in front. Cars behind will be moving more slowly and still looking forward. Again, I don't think this is a good option, but I think it's better than pulling in front of cars the way you have been.

BTW, do you ride with front flashers? If you don't you should, even in daylight. I think they would be especially handy in screwball traffic configurations like what you describe.

No, you're right. That bike lane is on the wrong side of the road. I wouldn't ride in it, no matter what the markings and signs may say. Wow.

Actually putting the bike lane on hte other side would not make much difference unless all the 'cross streets' Ts out on that side. It the next 'cross street' Ts out on the other side then the design is better for that corner.

Good reason not to have this kind of bike lane. I'd avoid it if all possible going against traffic.

If the bike lane allows you to ride against traffic on a one way street, forget about it. Go another way.
Ride with the traffic for this exact reason. Don't expect the drivers to do any better. Assume all drivers will drive right into you. It's a normal part of bicycling, motorcycling, and driving a car. Worse of course if you suprise a driver by coming the wrong way on a bicycle.

I agree with the council of elders. This bike lane is poorly designed and if you travel in it against traffic, you'll continue to be vulnerable. My city has a similar bike lane and these signs were recently installed on the back of the bike route signs to discourage what you're currently doing:

http://www.trafficsign.us/100/reg/r5-1b.gif

is the bike lane a painted bike lane or a separated "side path"?

that street seems like a bad place to put either one. a one way street? if it's a one way street then it can't be faster than 25MPH (unless it's one side of a median-separated highway). how fast is this street?

don't be riding the wrong way down a one way street period though, in the bike lane or otherwise. that's a recipe for disaster.

I'll start off saying that tonight was the 2nd time I've had my bike hit by a car this semester..

I live about 5 blocks off my campus and so its easy for me to commute to class/work on my bike. The roads are setup decently with bike paths although no driver ever seems to notice them..

Same spot was tonights accident as the one I had earlier a couple months ago, cars pull out going right into a 1 way street where I need to turn left into. So usually the driver is only looking towards the left and not seeing me come in on their right. We'll b/c of this I decided to slow way down for a good 5 seconds before I go to the intersection, but this did nothing as I was passing the front of her car she decided it was a good time to pull into the road. Luckily the only damage done was my rear wheel being bent on my mountain bike.

After this I stopped to see the damage and she wouldn't even acknowledge me and drove off. I'm about to the point where I am sick of how some drivers pay 0 attention to anything besides other cars on the road.

What are some ideas for things I can do to ride safer? Would having an airzound even do anything? If this happens again I'll try to get a plate number or talk to the driver. Is there anything that could be done in the future to say replace parts? What kind of trouble could I get in if say I took a piece of scrap iron rod and hit their car?

sorry.. just a bit frustrated


I drive a courier truck, basically one of these (http://www.utilimaster.com/walkin.html), guess what, they don't seem to see these things either:rolleyes:

you will mostly likely get smashed again in short period of time at this intersection.

The problem is that this bike-path is allowing you to ride in the wrong direction.

=(

You definatley won't be safer by using the sidewalk either, however it just doesn't look too good for you in the long run.

We have bicycle lanes on parallel one-way streets going opposite directions here and they are on the "wrong" side of the streets (i.e., on the left-hand side). On one of the two-way streets, there is a bike lane, but only on one side. It isn't posted as a two-way bike lane. I asked the local police whether I should ride against traffic flow in the designated bike lane or ride with traffic on the other side of the street. He told me that it is much safer and legally correct to ride with the traffic flow instead of riding against traffic flow if the bike lane is on the "wrong" side of the street.

Legally, a bicycle rider must follow all the laws that a car driver must follow. Therefore, riding the wrong way on a one-way street is against the law (unless the bicycle lane is marked for bidirectional travel) and if a bicyclist were to be involved in an accident while doing so, the bicyclist could be ticketed for improper lane use (or even if there wasn't an accident). I'd check with local law enforcement to get their input.

There should be a bicycle lane going in the opposite direction on a parallel one-way street. You would be better off taking that one, if it exists.

P.S. I've been hit by cars twice, so far, while riding in these bicycle lanes. A left hook and a right hook.

here is a pic of the street layout. I'm the blue oval in the bike path. I know the bike path seems to be on the wrong side of the road, but that is where it is, the street gets a lot of traffic especially in the morning and evenings
http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d66/epix1718/road11.gif

The bike lane is where it's supposed to be. You're riding against traffic, in violation of the law.

That's why you keep getting hit.




I'm about to the point where I am sick of how some drivers pay 0 attention to anything besides other cars on the road.While it's true that drivers often don't keep a proper lookout, you can't very well expect them to see you when you're riding the wrong way on a one-way street.



What are some ideas for things I can do to ride safer?Stop riding the wrong way on a one-way street.



Would having an airzound even do anything? If this happens again I'll try to get a plate number or talk to the driver.See above.


Is there anything that could be done in the future to say replace parts?Not when you're in the wrong.



What kind of trouble could I get in if say I took a piece of scrap iron rod and hit their car?Lots.

You're riding against traffic...that's the problem.

The fault is either yours or the bike path's.

Thanks for providing the drawing of the intersection.

In the USA, don't ride on the left side of the road, whether pavement markings encourage this or not.

Drivers won't expect you coming from their right when they make right turns. This is the most common type of car-bike collision in the city where I live: Turning driver hits contra-flow (left side) bicyclist on the roadway or sidewalk.

Ride right.

If the markings encourage you to ride left/against traffic, complain to the local police or the department in charge of maintaining the road

You can see the car entering from the side street, so use an AirZound to make sure you have their attention.

The fault is either yours or the bike path's.

The bike path is one the right side of the flow of traffic.

He was riding against the flow.

It cannot be the bike path's fault. It's just a stripe in the road.

The bike path is one the right side of the flow of traffic.

He was riding against the flow.

It cannot be the bike path's fault. It's just a stripe in the road.

That is not always true. Ones like that exist with arrows going both ways, in some cases even with a dashed line down the middle.

Bike lanes are not bi-directional. (ok, except a few heinous ones) I once hit a guy going the wrong way in a bike lane. He didn't know that he had to follow street signs. You must follow the direction of travel on a one way road. Use a different route.

Yep more info on the bicycle lane.

A bicyclist CAN NOT ride against traffic in Michigan, regardless of what "bike lanes" somebody here MAY or MAY NOT have seen elsewhere.


Michigan Compiled Laws, Section 257.657. Every person riding a bicycle ... upon a roadway shall be granted all of the rights and shall be subject to all of the duties applicable to the driver of a vehicle by this chapter...

Michigan Compiled Laws, Section 257.641(2).Upon a roadway designated and signposted for 1-way traffic a vehicle shall be driven only in the direction designated.

Michigan Compiled Laws, Section 257.660.A person operating a bicycle ... upon a roadway shall ride as near to the right side of the roadway as practicable...





I suspect the OP is a troll, and the rest of you have taken the bait...

It cannot be the bike path's fault. It's just a stripe in the road.

It's the bike path's fault if it has signs permitting contra-flow riding. Or more correctly, the bike path designers fault.

I won't get into whether or not the bike path is in the wong path, or the rider was breaking the law. I will add that the only way you really know if someone sees you or not is to make eye contact with the driver. Usually if I just stare at the driver hard enough they will turn and look my way, but if they don't, I assum they're going to cream me. An Air Zounds would work, but commuting to a college campus may not be practical, unless things have changed a lot since I went to college. A very loud shout can work, or a Fox40 whistle on a lanyard around the neck. All of this involves anticipating the situation.

I won't get into whether or not the bike path is in the wong path, or the rider was breaking the law. I will add that the only way you really know if someone sees you or not is to make eye contact with the driver. Usually if I just stare at the driver hard enough they will turn and look my way, but if they don't, I assum they're going to cream me. An Air Zounds would work, but commuting to a college campus may not be practical, unless things have changed a lot since I went to college. A very loud shout can work, or a Fox40 whistle on a lanyard around the neck. All of this involves anticipating the situation.

I have had many, many, times when a driver has apparently looked right into my eyes, and then would have driven right into me. But I expected it and took evasive action.
In most places the whistle is illegal. Not that it would matter much. I have discovered that in a car one can hear a loud yell even with the windows up and the radio on. Especially if you are close.

I will add that the only way you really know if someone sees you or not is to make eye contact with the driver.
But even this is not as reliable as it might seem. When I was hit, the motorist was looking me right in the eyes (at least I thought she was). I learned never to assume someone sees me, even if they are staring straight at me. Sometimes motorists look directly at cyclists, but don't see them because they are so focused on scanning for other cars. Also, I know window tinting laws vary from place to place, but around here there are some cars I just can't see into. I can't look at the driver, let alone determine if they are looking at me.


anticipating the situation.

I agree. That's the key.

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d66/epix1718/road11.gif

OMG... haven't read the next 5 pages of this thread but I think I know where it's going :D.

Well, third time's the charm! Stop using that bike path in that direction! I don't know what to say if the bike lane is really wide and there are signs stating to use the bike lane in both directions: make yourself known to the drivers by air horning them?!?

What do they call it when you keep doing the same thing over and over expecting different results?

You are going the wrong way down a one way street. Case Closed. Bike lane or not is moot.

my troll sense is tingling

I have had many, many, times when a driver has apparently looked right into my eyes, and then would have driven right into me. But I expected it and took evasive action.
In most places the whistle is illegal. Not that it would matter much. I have discovered that in a car one can hear a loud yell even with the windows up and the radio on. Especially if you are close.

I guess I am better at looking people in the eye, I've never made direct eye contact and had someone ignore me. When I lock eyes with someone I know it because their facial expression will change. Maybe I'm just Mysterio the Mesmerizer.

In what places are whistles illegal, and why?

Completely agree with not using that bike path. If it is not marked for two-way bike traffic, then you should consider it to be one-way just like the road next to it. If it is marked for two-way bike traffic, that is a terrible design for the exact reason you have discovered. In either case, don't use it in that direction whatever the legal status of doing so is.

If it is marked two-way, I would consider pointing out the problem to whoever installed the bike lane (city or university?), so that others are not similarly misled into danger. If it is not marked two-way, and you are feeling particularly advocate-ish, ask them put up the Wrong Way signs that chocula pointed out (there is a companion sign with a picture of a bike, to make it clearer) to help out others who may also think that the normal one-way signs don't apply to them.

I guess I am better at looking people in the eye, I've never made direct eye contact and had someone ignore me. When I lock eyes with someone I know it because their facial expression will change. Maybe I'm just Mysterio the Mesmerizer.

In what places are whistles illegal, and why?

No, it will happen to everyone. A driver will seem to look you in the eye from a distance and just drive right into you. Whistles are illegal because police use whistles for traffic control and other things.

No, it will happen to everyone. A driver will seem to look you in the eye from a distance and just drive right into you. Whistles are illegal because police use whistles for traffic control and other things.

In twenty years of riding in trafffic I've never had anyone look me in the eye and ignore me. I've had jerks purposefully drive at me, but they knew I was there. What I'm telling you is that, for me, there is no "seem to look you in the eye." Vaguely staring in your direction is not the same as "eye contact." I'm not going to try to explain again how you tell the difference, and there is no way to illustrate it. In twenty years of riding in trafffic I've never had anyone look me in the eye and ignore me. I've had jerks purposefully drive at me, but they knew I was there, they were just mean.

I'd be curious to see any state or federal statute making whistles illegal. If so, it is completely unenforced. Maybe NYC has cops all over the place directing traffic, but I rarely see LEOs directing traffic anymore, even at out of order traffic signals. I haven't seen one using a whistle in years. They usually have a flashlight with a cone on it, or gloves.

It is safe to say that we just disagree on these topics.

In twenty years of riding in trafffic I've never had anyone look me in the eye and ignore me. I've had jerks purposefully drive at me, but they knew I was there. What I'm telling you is that, for me, there is no "seem to look you in the eye." Vaguely staring in your direction is not the same as "eye contact." I'm not going to try to explain again how you tell the difference, and there is no way to illustrate it. In twenty years of riding in trafffic I've never had anyone look me in the eye and ignore me. I've had jerks purposefully drive at me, but they knew I was there, they were just mean.

I'd be curious to see any state or federal statute making whistles illegal. If so, it is completely unenforced. Maybe NYC has cops all over the place directing traffic, but I rarely see LEOs directing traffic anymore, even at out of order traffic signals. I haven't seen one using a whistle in years. They usually have a flashlight with a cone on it, or gloves.

It is safe to say that we just disagree on these topics.

TITLE 31
Motor and Other vehicles
CHAPTER 31-19
Operation of Bicycles
SECTION 31-19-10

(d) Sirens or whistles. A bicycle shall not be equipped with, nor shall any person use a bicycle equipped with, a siren or whistle.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The above is from my state laws, they are on line, as are many states. Google can find many of them. I totally agree about it rarely being enforced, it's a low priority. But it could be used if there was a reason.

How does one tell the difference without asking, between someone being mean and aiming for you, and looking the same and not registering your presence? It happens to cars, and even huge trucks too. Drivers do it, cyclists do it too. Everyone makes mistakes. People look and drive into cars and trucks too.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ohio Bicycle Traffic Laws

§ 4511.56. Signal devices on bicycle.

(C) A bicycle may be equipped with a device capable of giving an audible signal, except that a bicycle shall not be equipped with nor shall any person use upon a bicycle any siren or whistle.

TITLE 31
Motor and Other vehicles
CHAPTER 31-19
Operation of Bicycles
SECTION 31-19-10

(d) Sirens or whistles. A bicycle shall not be equipped with, nor shall any person use a bicycle equipped with, a siren or whistle.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The above is from my state laws, they are on line, as are many states. Google can find many of them. I totally agree about it rarely being enforced, it's a low priority. But it could be used if there was a reason.

How does one tell the difference without asking, between someone being mean and aiming for you, and looking the same and not registering your presence? It happens to cars, and even huge trucks too. Drivers do it, cyclists do it too. Everyone makes mistakes. People look and drive into cars and trucks too.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ohio Bicycle Traffic Laws

§ 4511.56. Signal devices on bicycle.

(C) A bicycle may be equipped with a device capable of giving an audible signal, except that a bicycle shall not be equipped with nor shall any person use upon a bicycle any siren or whistle.


That's the law in the United States, but may not be the law everywhere. for example here in Ontario, Canada the Highway Traffic Act (http://www.canlii.org/on/laws/sta/h-8/20051019/whole.html) states:

Unnecessary noise

(4) A person having the control or charge of a motor vehicle shall not sound any bell, horn or other signalling device so as to make an unreasonable noise, and a driver of any motor vehicle shall not permit any unreasonable amount of smoke to escape from the motor vehicle, nor shall the driver at any time cause the motor vehicle to make any unnecessary noise, but this subsection does not apply to a motor vehicle of a municipal fire department while proceeding to a fire or answering a fire alarm call. R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 75 (4).

Alarm bell to be sounded

(5) Every motor vehicle, motor assisted bicycle and bicycle shall be equipped with an alarm bell, gong or horn, which shall be kept in good working order and sounded whenever it is reasonably necessary to notify pedestrians or others of its approach. R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 75 (5).

Prohibition as to use of siren horn

(6) No vehicle other than an ambulance, fire or police department vehicle, public utility emergency vehicle or vehicle operated by the Ministry shall be equipped with a siren horn or a device producing a sound which so nearly resembles that produced by a siren horn as to deceive or confuse. R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 75 (6).


Two big differences here, a bell, gong or horn must be present and working, a search of the act, does not specifically mention whistles anywhere at all.

That's the law in the United States, but may not be the law everywhere. for example here in Ontario, Canada the Highway Traffic Act (http://www.canlii.org/on/laws/sta/h-8/20051019/whole.html) states:

Unnecessary noise

(4) A person having the control or charge of a motor vehicle shall not sound any bell, horn or other signalling device so as to make an unreasonable noise, and a driver of any motor vehicle shall not permit any unreasonable amount of smoke to escape from the motor vehicle, nor shall the driver at any time cause the motor vehicle to make any unnecessary noise, but this subsection does not apply to a motor vehicle of a municipal fire department while proceeding to a fire or answering a fire alarm call. R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 75 (4).

Alarm bell to be sounded

(5) Every motor vehicle, motor assisted bicycle and bicycle shall be equipped with an alarm bell, gong or horn, which shall be kept in good working order and sounded whenever it is reasonably necessary to notify pedestrians or others of its approach. R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 75 (5).

Prohibition as to use of siren horn

(6) No vehicle other than an ambulance, fire or police department vehicle, public utility emergency vehicle or vehicle operated by the Ministry shall be equipped with a siren horn or a device producing a sound which so nearly resembles that produced by a siren horn as to deceive or confuse. R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 75 (6).


Two big differences here, a bell, gong or horn must be present and working, a search of the act, does not specifically mention whistles anywhere at all.


I didn't mean that is the law everywhere, or even all of the USA. I just posted my state and his state.

I don't know that it is the same in all states. It's most likely that most states are the same, but who knows?

I've been reading this post, it is actually going through the same questions I had a while back. As per the Ontario Traffic Act post I've determined I can in fact use a whistle. I started using one. I found it totally ineffective against hulking SUVs with thier windows closed. I had two whistles I bought after researching, one that the coast guard supposedly swears by. Another that's used for extra loud arenas. The result was the same, no one can hear it. I've tested the whistles with my father in law while he was sitting in his Oldsmobile. He didn't hear me. Then I had to do it for myself. All you hear is some annoying high pitched noise but who knows what that is supposed to be, no one expects it. Also riding with a whistle in your mouth seems totally unreasonable for the low effect. Now the whistle sits in my first aid kit, just in case.