General Cycling Discussion - Bunch of total newbie questions

I just started riding and bought a new 03 Trek 1000. I am generally happy with the bike, although I know almost nothing about what I am doing. I live in a small town with no riding club or LBS that I have found so I thought I would ask some newbie questions here and see if you people would be kind enough to help me out. Keep in mind that the upgrades that I am asking about will happen over time. I fully understand that it would have been easier and less expensive to have purchased a bike already outfitted with these components but I didnt have the money all at once and I think it would have spoiled the upgrade fun :-)

1. The only thing I do not like is the brakes on my bike. Can I purchase a set of Ultegra brake calipers and slap them on my bike in place of the Sora calipers I have now? I rode a bike at the LBS that had Ultergas on it and they worked well. Do I need anything other than the Ultegra calipers and shoes?

2. I ride a lot of bumpy roads and have heard that carbon components can reduce the shock delivered to your joints. With that in mind would it eventually be a good idea to replace some components such as front forks, seat post and/or handlebars with carbon versions? Not to mention that saving weight will make it easier on me to ride faster/further.

3. Can one replace seperate components with upgraded ones such as derailers etc. For example, could I eventually replace one derailer at a time with Ultegra components or do I have to buy an entire system with Ultegra.

4. I have read about "lower mass" wheels, specifically ones with a lower number of spokes. Do these really noticably make it easier to accelerate etc or is that more for the Lance Armstrong types. Will they work for daily riding on rough streets?

5. I seem to be getting numbness in my hands. I know that the gloves I bought are a little too small and I have new ones comming but although I think that will help I dont think it will completely solve my problem. I was wondering if maybe I am putting too much weight on them and wonder if maybe getting a new thingy (technical term) that connects the forks to the handlebars with a slightly upward angle might be the answer. Yes, I have been fitted to the bike where I bought it and I think they did a good job (seemed to know what they were doing).

6. I have heard that some forks have different angles than others and am wondering if that means that some are easier to keep running in a straight line and some are better at cornering. Is this correct and/or are there other factors.

Thank you for taking the time to read all this. Please be kind, I have only been riding a few weeks and am really lost but I want to learn.

Allan Hall

Originally posted by Flea77
1. Can I purchase a set of Ultegra brake calipers and slap them on my bike in place of the Sora calipers I have now? Do I need anything other than the Ultegra calipers and shoes?

Yes you can and no, you don't need anything else -- calipers will include the shoes and most likely new cables and housing.


2. have heard that carbon components can reduce the shock delivered to your joints. With that in mind would it eventually be a good idea to replace some components such as front forks, seat post and/or handlebars with carbon versions?

Yes, carbon forks and posts will reduce the effects of road shock and vibration. However, if you're buying retail you should expect to pay at least $200 or more for the carbon fork and about $100 or more for the carbon seatpost -- which is equal to about 1/2 of the cost of your Trek 1000.


3. Can one replace seperate components with upgraded ones such as derailers etc. For example, could I eventually replace one derailer at a time with Ultegra components or do I have to buy an entire system with Ultegra.

Yes, they are all interchangeable. This was not always the case with DuraAce, but Shimano fixed that in 1997.


4. I have read about "lower mass" wheels, specifically ones with a lower number of spokes. Do these really noticably make it easier to accelerate etc or is that more for the Lance Armstrong types. Will they work for daily riding on rough streets?

Yes, your bike will feel more lively with lighter wheels. The lighter the wheels -- specifically the tire/rim/spokes -- the more quickly they will accelerate and total wheel weight reductions to include the hub will obviously make for a lighter bike which is beneficial when climbing. They are purportedly strong enough for everyday riding -- Bontrager & Shimano even make a tandem-rated models -- however, they do tend to provide a more harsh ride than say 32 spoked conventional wheels. However, back to economics, these component wheel systems are priced from about $450/pr, which when combined with your Ultegra brake, carbon fork & seatpost & purchase price of the T1000 puts your bicycle investment up over $1,400.


5. I seem to be getting numbness in my hands. Yes, I have been fitted to the bike where I bought it and I think they did a good job (seemed to know what they were doing).

Having gloves that are too small can cause a lot of discomfort and your new gloves may help but, frankly, I'm one of those weirdos who believes you should be able to ride without gloves and not experience any hand numbness. Regardless, if your LBS fitted you and you have hand numbness I would go back to them and have them re-check your fit on the bike. Tell them what you are feeling and when it occurs. If they believe you would benefit from a shorter stem or one with more rise you should ask them to swap it out gratis... (aka. el freebo).


6. I have heard that some forks have different angles than others and am wondering if that means that some are easier to keep running in a straight line and some are better at cornering. Is this correct and/or are there other factors.

Shortening the amount of Fork rake, e.g., going from 47mm to 40mm will result in longer steering trail. As for improving stability, that's where all discussions become subjective based on a rider's expectation.

Shorter trail numbers (< 2.35") provide a road bike with better slow-speed stability. They will run in a straight line rather nicely even when riding without your hands on the bars, they're less twitchy at slow speed and provide very light feeling steering inputs. However, as speeds increase road bikes with shorter than average trail tend to exhibit understeer which could also be characterized as "less stable" by aggressive riders who like to descend at high speed or do a lot of aggressive countersteering/leaning through tight corners. Obviously, handling near 2.35" is excellent and balanced and these characteristics become more pronounced the further away you get, i.e., 1.65" would be track-stand heaven.

The opposite is true of road bikes with longer than average trail. As suggested, at very slow speeds a road bike with longer than average trail (> 2.35") will exhibit a twitchiness sometimes referred to as "wheel flop". At slow to moderate speeds, such as when climbing, the steering may still feel heavy and you may find yourself fighting the steering a little bit to hold a tight line. However, once at speed or when pushed through corners at very steep lean angles the handling on long-trail bikes is often described as "like riding on rails". Again, as with the earlier numbers, the further you go away from the 2.35" sweet spot for road bike handling the more pronounced this becomes.

So, it all depends on what you're accustomed to and/or how you define "stability".

You can do a little experiment with your bike at home that will help you understand how more or less steering trail affects how a bike will handle. Leonard Zinn actually came up with this...

Get a bucket or a box that's about 1' - 1.5' high and that will hold the weight of your bicycle.

First, put you bike's front wheel on top of the bucket/box with the rear wheel resting on the floor. This will simulate a very exaggerated amount of very long steering trail. Note how the wheel will flop from side to side and how much leverage it takes to turn the wheel through the center of the turning axis?

Now, put the rear wheel on top of the bucket/box with the front wheel resting on the floor. This virtually eliminates steering trail -- perhaps even going a bit negative. Note how the tire pivots nicely and now little leverage it takes to turn the wheel.

Bottom Line:
1. I would recommend that you get your T1000 dialed in with regard to eliminating your hand numbness -- that's the most important thing. Again, go back to your dealer and have them double check your fit and riding position. Sometimes what we actually do on properly fitted bicycle makes a static fit a bit off. My wife tends to ride with her toes pointed down after about 30 minutes of riding-- and doesn't know it. So, even in the shop she can fool the bike fitter.

2. Hold off on the upgrades. A cheap "suspension" upgrade for your rough roads would be to run larger tires, i.e., 700x28 instead of the stock 700x25 and that may be good enough to get you through your first year on this bike.

3. Consider setting a personal goal for mileage or fitness by the end of the year and then reward yourself with a new or perhaps even a new-used bike next year that has all the "go-fast goodies". At that time you can decide if you want to keep your T1000 as your "mud bike" or perhaps even convert it to a commuter or a fixed gear trainer for the winter. You'd be surprised at how many really nice high-end bikes you can pick up on Ebay or at year-end etailer close-outs.

Enjoy the ride.

Good advice, get the hand problem taken care of first. If you are still riding and enjoying it in a few months you can "reward" yourself down the line. It would be a shame to spend a lot of money on a bike that you may end up replacing with a more expensive bike in a few months.

Can someone elaborate about this TRAIL thing..... i dont understand and id like to know more as I want more high speed stability on my next bike.....

Brendon

Originally posted by NZLcyclist
Can someone elaborate about this TRAIL thing..... i dont understand and id like to know more as I want more high speed stability on my next bike.

Plug in this URL and you'll end up with a plethora of Web links to more on bicycle steering trail:

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=bicycle+steering+trail&btnG=Google+Search

For what it's worth, steering trail is one of the most subjective topics in the bicycle sciences / design dialog.

you'll end up with having enought bike parts to build a new one , I would suggest to just keep your bike and save all the money you can lay your hands on and then buy the bike of your dreams

1. Start by just replacing the shoes. Try the Kool-Stop salmon shoes. This is most likely to make the biggest difference without costing too much. You may also need to adjust the position of the levers on the bar; depending on where your hands are, you may simply not be getting sufficient leverage when operating the brakes.

2. Don't waste money on expensive upgrades to a Trek 1000. Use this bike to establish what you want and don't want in a road bike, and apply that knowledge to your next bike purchase.

Also, experience will teach you how to manage shock by riding "light in the saddle." After a while, you won't notice rough roads quite so much.

If you do, try some slightly larger tires at somewhat lower pressure.

3. You can replace one component at a time, but don't. Not on a 1000. Your Sora levers, for example, limit you to an 8-speed drivetrain. You could buy an Ultegra rear derailleur, for example, but it would still be 8-speed because of the shifters. Upgrading to 9-speed levers will cost you 25% of what you paid for your entire bike.

The most cost effective way to replace a gruppo is to buy a new bike with that gruppo already installed on it.

4. Stick with the wheels you have. Make sure they've been stress-relieved and properley tensioned, or you'll have endless woe. Good wheels will cost you half of what you paid for your entire bike.

5. Yes, your bars are probably too low, and yes, a stem with more rise may help. This should have been part of the process of fitting the bike done by your bike shop.

6. I'd advise you to ride the bike as it is and become proficient and experienced. That will put you in a better position to understand what improvements or changes in design would serve you better in your next bike. Changing the front-end geometry of the bike will certainly change the handling, but it will change other things as well, and those changes will be unpredictable unless done by someone with thorough knowledge of the dynamics of bicycle design.

The Trek 1000 is a decent starter bike, but one of its primary virtues is that the brand name helps it hold its resale value. You're unlikely to recoup the cost of expensive upgrades you make to one of these bikes. Better to save your money towards a better bike in a year or two when you have a clearer idea of exactly what you want.

Meanwhile, avoid the common mistake of confusing the engine with the wheels. You have a bike that is entirely adequate for the purpose of turning you into a strong and experienced cyclist, and of giving you 100% of the joy of getting out there and riding. No further upgrades are necessary to reach those goals.

Just go ride!

RichC

1. Start by just replacing the shoes. Try the Kool-Stop salmon shoes.

OK, but when I do a search on them there are tons of types, and I am a real newbie. Do I need pads only? Shoes and pads? EC-II? The Extreme Condition say for carbon rims only. Would you happen to have a link to the ones I need? I would be VERY greatful.

I really appreciate all the helpful comments from everyone. I understand a few things better now and will feel more comfortable looking at parts and/or upgrades. Right now I am sure I will be doing something to the brakes, hopefully pads but if that doesnt help, calipers. The rest I asked mainly in case I run into some really good deals I will know what will and will not work/make a difference.

I have no intention of spending thousands on upgrading a $600 bike, but if I find a nice carbon front fork for $50 I wont turn it down either :-) You get my point anyway.

Thanks again!

Allan Hall

I don't know what brakes your bike has. See this page: http://www.sheldonbrown.com/harris/brakeshoes.html -- and see what looks like what you have on your bike.

Newer road bikes often have brakes with replaceable shoes (take a close look and you can tell if the pads slide out or not; there may be a retainer pin). The 105/Ultegra type pads may fit these.

Otherwise, check with Trek. They have e-mail support, I believe.

As a general principle, there are very few upgrades that will make a truly meaningful difference in the performance of a bike. The ones that do are usually changes in *type* -- e.g., changing from knobby tires to road tires, or changing from flat bars to drop bars.

To professional racers, shaving a minute off a 100 mile leg of a stage race can be worth spending a lot of money on better equipment. To us ordinary folks, that same upgrade translates into like 10 seconds off a 15 mile commute.

If you are already feeling vaguely dissatisfied with your Trek 1000, that's an even stronger signal not to spend any -- ANY -- money on upgrades. Even a $50 carbon fork could actually make the bike harder to sell (there's virtue in having a bike be "stock," and buyers are often suspicious of inappropriate upgrades on used bikes). And keep in mind also that installing forks is not exactly "plug and play."

RichC

A comfy seat, bar tape or foam, brake pads, tires, anything else get a more expensive bike.

A comfy seat, bar tape or foam, brake pads, tires, anything else get a more expensive bike.

Seat, check, bar tape, hmmmm.....stock cork stuff on mine....will look into that, brake pads, working on it, tires, something wrong with the ones I have or just when they wear out?



If you are already feeling vaguely dissatisfied with your Trek 1000, that's an even stronger signal not to spend any -- ANY -- money on upgrades. Even a $50 carbon fork could actually make the bike harder to sell (there's virtue in having a bike be "stock," and buyers are often suspicious of inappropriate upgrades on used bikes). And keep in mind also that installing forks is not exactly "plug and play."

OK, I should say that I am vaguely dissatisfied with my hand numbness which I think can be corrected with a new stem and my brakes not stopping that well which may just need new pads. Riding, shifting etc I am quite happy with this bike. Would I rather have a $4,500 USPS all carbon bike, YEAH! Although I am not really sure why, but heck yeah! Do I enjoy riding this one, yup, lots of fun until I need to stop really quick going down hill.

I did ride a nice $3,500 bike the other day with all Ultegra on it, brakes impressed me (translation=almost threw me over the bars), shifting was smoother and quieter but (no offense) I didnt see really any other difference at all. I am sure it was smoother on rough roads (all carbon) but I can deal with that for a year or so until/if I decide I need something faster, lighter and smoother. (or until I decide I need something cooler, heh)

Allan
-=Not afraid to admit he is a geek who needs cool toys!=-

shifting was smoother and quieter but (no offense) I didnt see really any other difference at all. I am sure it was smoother on rough roads (all carbon) but I can deal with that for a year or so until/if I decide I need something faster, lighter and smoother. (or until I decide I need something cooler, heh)

After a certain basic expenditure on a road bike, you pay a whole lot for very small improvements. MOstly you are looking at some weight loss, but, for many of us, the weight loss should come first off the body - when that is where it should be, you worry about the bike.

And, yes, some of the shifting is better, although it is more likely that any rough shifting is caused by out-of-adjustment cables and gears, or, later on, worn parts.

Remember, those cables stretch significantly during the 1st month or so, and that is one reason why many LBS's generally gives free adjustments for a period of time.

I would advise to hold back on any expensive upgrade . Your bike is good enough to ride and cheap enough to learn from.
Sora brake calipers work just fine. The Shimano brake pads are quite good, but Kool-stop are better.
Getting your position dialled in can take a long time. You have to get used to riding, so your position can change over time. I took about a year to really fine tune my ride.

Originally posted by Flea77
I just started riding and bought a new 03 Trek 1000. I am generally happy with the bike, although I know almost nothing about what I am doing. I live in a small town with no riding club or LBS that I have found so I thought I would ask some newbie questions here and see if you people would be kind enough to help me out. Keep in mind that the upgrades that I am asking about will happen over time. I fully understand that it would have been easier and less expensive to have purchased a bike already outfitted with these components but I didnt have the money all at once and I think it would have spoiled the upgrade fun :-)

1. The only thing I do not like is the brakes on my bike. Can I purchase a set of Ultegra brake calipers and slap them on my bike in place of the Sora calipers I have now? I rode a bike at the LBS that had Ultergas on it and they worked well. Do I need anything other than the Ultegra calipers and shoes?

You can. I use 105 brakes and they work just fine.

2. I ride a lot of bumpy roads and have heard that carbon components can reduce the shock delivered to your joints. With that in mind would it eventually be a good idea to replace some components such as front forks, seat post and/or handlebars with carbon versions? Not to mention that saving weight will make it easier on me to ride faster/further.

Well, a friend of mine did a panic stop at an intersection and locked a rear tire and blew it. He went out and got a rid of his 20 mm tire and went to 23 mm for more rubber. What amazed him was the fact that a slightly larger tire had a very large impact on the smoothness of the ride.

Carbon components might have a very minor influence on compliance but I think almost all of that would be placibo effect. Running larger tires at slightly less pressure will have a much greater effect and be cheaper too.

3. Can one replace seperate components with upgraded ones such as derailers etc. For example, could I eventually replace one derailer at a time with Ultegra components or do I have to buy an entire system with Ultegra.

You can but piecemeal upgrades are not cheap. Often if you look at buying a bike a piece at a time, it is actually considerably cheaper to buy the whole shooting match at once. The advantage with this is you can use you "old" bike as a substitute bike if your new ride is in the shop.

4. I have read about "lower mass" wheels, specifically ones with a lower number of spokes. Do these really noticably make it easier to accelerate etc or is that more for the Lance Armstrong types. Will they work for daily riding on rough streets?

The lighter the wheel the less durable. I am a big reasonably fast rider and I do quite a bit of mileage, so I go with heavier bullet proof tires. As for performance, I have been in groups of fast riders and something I have noticed. If you put the strongest rider in the group on the worst bike in the group, he would still beat everyone else. It really is the rider.

5. I seem to be getting numbness in my hands. I know that the gloves I bought are a little too small and I have new ones comming but although I think that will help I dont think it will completely solve my problem. I was wondering if maybe I am putting too much weight on them and wonder if maybe getting a new thingy (technical term) that connects the forks to the handlebars with a slightly upward angle might be the answer. Yes, I have been fitted to the bike where I bought it and I think they did a good job (seemed to know what they were doing).

Having a more upright posture could help. Racers tend to ride with their handlebars about 2"-4" or more below the saddle. Just normal cylists range from slightly below, to the same level to (as they get older) above the saddle height.

6. I have heard that some forks have different angles than others and am wondering if that means that some are easier to keep running in a straight line and some are better at cornering. Is this correct and/or are there other factors.

Well bikes with long wheel bases tend to be more stable but don't turn as fast. But wheel base is a combination of fork rake, frame angle and length of chain stay. Just fooling with fork rake and not modifying the other two does not sound like a real good idea.

Thank you for taking the time to read all this. Please be kind, I have only been riding a few weeks and am really lost but I want to learn.

Allan Hall