Singlespeed & Fixed Gear - yet another POS slave-made plastic frame

http://www.teschnergroup.com/products/teschner/framesets/trackPro/

Yuch

what is the point of this thread?

so you can`t afford one then

I thought for a second the white decals on the seat tube were cutouts. That would look pretty cool.

Times like this, I wish we could sage threads here on BF.

I thought for a second the white decals on the seat tube were cutouts. That would look pretty cool.

They're not cutouts? Damn, have to cancel my order. That would have gone nicely with a miche seatpost.

Sink!

calling carbon fiber plastic is stupid.

You gotta admit, it's a really ugly frame though. The decals are bad enough, but look at where the headtube and the stem meet, there's no way to get a negative rise stem on there... what kind of a track bike is that??????????????

http://www.teschnergroup.com/products/teschner/framesets/trackPro/images/trackpro_large.jpg

ROFL at the carbon fiber header bar on that site!

what is the point of this thread?


calling carbon fiber plastic is stupid.

It could be an ironic reference to Walker's "$20 carbon fiber" post.;)

You gotta admit, it's a really ugly frame though. The decals are bad enough, but look at where the headtube and the stem meet, there's no way to get a negative rise stem on there... what kind of a track bike is that??????????????



I am sort of talking out of my ass here but it seems like a lot of track racers (keirin racers excluded) use positive rise stems and a lot of seat post to give them an aero position. I think the frame looks pretty sick.

You gotta admit, it's a really ugly frame though. The decals are bad enough, but look at where the headtube and the stem meet, there's no way to get a negative rise stem on there... what kind of a track bike is that??????????????
Can't you just file a bit off the head tube?

I am sort of talking out of my ass here but it seems like a lot of track racers (keirin racers excluded) use positive rise stems and a lot of seat post to give them an aero position. I think the frame looks pretty sick.

You're probably right. But, not like you said, not everyone uses positive rise...the stem rise/drop can do so much for proper fitting, I would never buy a frame that limits me in that aspect. That's just bad design, period.

People will always feel threatened by the new and different things they are completely ignorant about. Hate away predictable, backward fools. Ha ha.

Unless you know where and how it was made I don't see how you can make that claim. I don't find it ugly either, but whatever.

I thought for a second the white decals on the seat tube were cutouts. That would look pretty cool.
Same here. Miche seatpost would match it well.:D

i like it. i would ride it.

i don't like it, but i have to say this is one of the first CF bikes i haven't liked. i would still ride it, though.

I'm noticing that a lot of the CF track bikes use relatively slack ht angles. I'm wondering if the extra stiffness of the carbon fiber, compared to steel, just allows the use of more road-like geometry while still providing a stiff, responsive frame, or if there is some other reason for it (like poor design).

You gotta admit, it's a really ugly frame though. The decals are bad enough, but look at where the headtube and the stem meet, there's no way to get a negative rise stem on there... what kind of a track bike is that??????????????



as has been said, short headtubes + lots of seatpost = aero position without having to use a drop stem.
In fanct many sprinters will use a positive rise stem.

if you really need a drop stem, then a LOOK ergostem would solve your "problem"

I'm noticing that a lot of the CF track bikes use relatively slack ht angles. I'm wondering if the extra stiffness of the carbon fiber, compared to steel, just allows the use of more road-like geometry while still providing a stiff, responsive frame, or if there is some other reason for it (like poor design).

I really doubt that it's poor design. I mean, I don't know who knows more about the ideal ST angle for a track bike - a bike company with thousands, if not millions, of dollars of R&D and input from professional riders, or a bunch of kids on the Internet, who fetishize vintage bikes that were designed in the '60s.

I'm not trying to be insulting. I'd much rather own a vintage track bike from the '60s, but if I were getting paid to ride a bike, I'd much rather ride a bike that had the R&D done to ensure that every last bit of energy is going to propelling me and my bike, and not fighting wind resistance and a flexible frame.

I really doubt that it's poor design. I mean, I don't know who knows more about the ideal ST angle for a track bike - a bike company with thousands, if not millions, of dollars of R&D and input from professional riders, or a bunch of kids on the Internet, who fetishize vintage bikes that were designed in the '60s.

I'm not trying to be insulting. I'd much rather own a vintage track bike from the '60s, but if I were getting paid to ride a bike, I'd much rather ride a bike that had the R&D done to ensure that every last bit of energy is going to propelling me and my bike, and not fighting wind resistance and a flexible frame.

Hear hear! The frame wasn't designed to be ridden off the velo, much less pot-hole marred streets. For it's intended purpose, the frame looks kind of *****in'.

Slack headtubes make for easier (in other words, more roadie-like) pacelining. At least that's the logic I've heard in the past.

DW? Sachs?

calling carbon fiber plastic is stupid.

It is pretty accurate to call it plastic. The epoxy resin (plastic) is the majority of the structure, the carbon is there to add strength and rigidity.

just sayin'

this one isn't *that* slack.

73.5deg ht seems more traditional than some.

fsnl
sparky

You gotta admit, it's a really ugly frame though. The decals are bad enough, but look at where the headtube and the stem meet, there's no way to get a negative rise stem on there... what kind of a track bike is that??????????????

http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/P/B0000C83YH.01-A3N0HBHR81I3U1._AA280_SCLZZZZZZZ_.jpg

i think its a pretty nice frame, personally.

even though I love to ride I don't know sh*t about frames. I looks good to me. Please tell me why I'm suppose to hate it.

thanks

Looks a bit like the one in the photo below. The rider is a National Masters Kilo and Team Pursuit champ.

I want one I will paint it with glow in the dark paint and finally have a tron light cycle yes shut up stop complaining and ride

I really doubt that it's poor design. I mean, I don't know who knows more about the ideal ST angle for a track bike - a bike company with thousands, if not millions, of dollars of R&D and input from professional riders, or a bunch of kids on the Internet, who fetishize vintage bikes that were designed in the '60s.

I'm not trying to be insulting. I'd much rather own a vintage track bike from the '60s, but if I were getting paid to ride a bike, I'd much rather ride a bike that had the R&D done to ensure that every last bit of energy is going to propelling me and my bike, and not fighting wind resistance and a flexible frame.
I'm not saying that I know better than they do, but I know enough about engineering to know that not everybody who can afford to do it, does it. I'm just wondering if the R&D was actually done, or if they are just using the designs from their road bikes. More specifically, I'm wondering, if they are doing the research and engineering, what benefits are gained by the more slack HT (Though, 73.5 isn't all that slack, i've seen as low as 72, and vintage is usually 74-75), and what is it about CF that makes it possible when it appears to be impossible with steel. Vomitron mentions it is easier to paceline, which seems to make sense, though I'm not sure exactly why that would be.

I think a lot of the bikes are designed for olympic and world class level tracks and the anticipated speeds that riders will be traveling on them (ie. faster than you or me). "****ing steep" geometry may not serve any good purpose if it's going to result in stearing that isn't neutral for the conditions the bike is designed to be ridden in.

Just to spell this out a bit more, the Forest City Velodrome vs. some track that's been used for the olympics will have vastly different geometry and anticipated rider speeds. These bikes are all designed for the (standardized design) upper level velodromes where all the big competitions are held.

I don't personally read Walker's criticism of certain mass produced frames as a rant over asthetics. It would seem that Sachs, Walker, and other "purists" (for lack of a better term) view track machines as a bicycle that requires a geometry specific to the steep angles of a velodrome.

Now if a bike looks like a melted candle, and is also unsuitable for the track (BB too low) the fact that it's painted and covered with a million Nascaresque stickers to hide apparent design flaws is a moot point.

But I clearly remember when the message boards complained about the colour choices of Richard Sach's frames or the font selection of a Walkercycles downtube. And probably realizing that even after months of ranting, the were only viable complaints of the handbuilders was that they "didn't like the paint".


That's a cool bike btw. Especially if it works.*

*It reminds me of the Look Athena, a bike that I would pawn my antique Charles X furniture to afford it's $14,000.00 ticket, even if for a day.

Can't you just file a bit off the head tube?
Don't you dare!
Just file the stem.

Don't you dare!
Just file the stem.

The Look Ergostem is made for this type of frame.

I'm not saying that I know better than they do, but I know enough about engineering to know that not everybody who can afford to do it, does it. I'm just wondering if the R&D was actually done, or if they are just using the designs from their road bikes. More specifically, I'm wondering, if they are doing the research and engineering, what benefits are gained by the more slack HT (Though, 73.5 isn't all that slack, i've seen as low as 72, and vintage is usually 74-75), and what is it about CF that makes it possible when it appears to be impossible with steel. Vomitron mentions it is easier to paceline, which seems to make sense, though I'm not sure exactly why that would be.

The logic (apparently) is that more riders are coming from the road world, and training on road bikes, thus they are used to less twitchy steering geometry. Now, for the average world-class sprinter, at around turn 4, you're likely to think your headset is welded shut if you don't have a 75deg ht.

Seems like the bike is designed for kilo/tt/mass start. The slack(er) ht is probably just so road-trained cyclists will feel more comfortable in the pack.

can we have steel aluminum and carbon fiber fight in a three way steel cage match, or would a steel cage give an unfair advantage to the steel frame?..

If you imagine the Look to be on a more level angle, these frames look a lot alike. Similar geometry, at least, and the headtube seems to be about the same angle, so the drop-stem issue that someone mentioned doesn't seem to apply.

http://www.teschnergroup.com/products/teschner/framesets/trackPro/images/trackpro_large.jpg

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j103/jetsanchEz/d695_3.jpg

yep they're both carbon fiber...

The Look's headtube/fork treatment gives it the win.

Yeah, I would imagine that the Look frame probably inspired the Teschner company's branding of their frame. Either one would be great for me to boot around on the streets with. In another 15 years, we will see messengers on these things. How cool will that be?

Build the look with the seatpost system of the te**** and I'm sold. Except that I don't ride track and I'm broke.

Yeah, I would imagine that the Look frame probably inspired the Teschner company's branding of their frame. Either one would be great for me to boot around on the streets with. In another 15 years, we will see messengers on these things. How cool will that be?

If the market keeps growing, it might be more like another 15 months.

It would be the last bastion of exclusivity.

If the market keeps growing, it might be more like another 15 months.

It would be the last bastion of exclusivity.

The road forum had that group buy-in on a full CF frame/fork for 550$USD, that is pretty cheap. I don't think we could organize such a thing here but damn, you are right, it won't be long until we see some cheap-as-hell CF track frames from China on eBay.

I think it looks great! Of course, the head tube might need a little work as has been mentioned, but these futuristic-looking bikes seem really cool to me.

The Look's headtube/fork treatment gives it the win.

yes, well, just ask Christian Stahl and a few other world class sprinters what happens to that headtube/fork treatment when involved in a crash...

...you have the frame, handlebars and fork with wheel still attached go in three different directions.

The road forum had that group buy-in on a full CF frame/fork for 550$USD, that is pretty cheap. I don't think we could organize such a thing here but damn, you are right, it won't be long until we see some cheap-as-hell CF track frames from China on eBay.

If we could pull it off, though, I swear I'd buy two...

Who wants to write a nice letter to the folks at Corima?

it seems that the riders that can benefit most from aero carbon frames for the most part don't have to pay for them. they may not even like them, but they probably don't have much of a choice in the matter. while thousands of dollars of carefully laid carbon may generate some sort of advantage to a world class athelete, the potential benefit is probably lost on lower category racers with the disposable income to purchase a world class setup.

personally, i would hate to be the guy with a $4000 frameset and $4000 wheels getting his ass handed to him by racers on less exotic rigs.

kind of off topic, but a curiosity of mine...

so I'm completely ignorant on titanium, it seems as though it's quite light, and quite strong, so why not use it instead of carbon fiber? is it because you can mold carbon fiber into aerodynamic shapes? it's always seemed to me that carbon fiber is to easy to break, but as I said, I'm ignorant in this area of things...