Tandem Cycling - Carbon fiber forks for tandems.

My wife and I are looking for a Carbon fiber fork for our tandem. We are riding a Cannondale RT1000 bike. Our combined weight with bicycle included is 340 lbs. I am looking for any recomendations on durability, weight, and price.
Thanks

There are only 5 tandem-rated fork models being marketed for sale:

True-Temper's Alpha Q X2: 440gr with 1 1/8" steerer and your choice of 41mm, 44mm or 48mm rake. You must use a caliper brake arch with this fork and it will only take up to a 700x25mm size tire (although a 28mm Continental tire may fit - but it's tight). $478 MSRP
http://www.truetemper.com/performance_tubing/x2.html

Advanced Composite's Wound-Up: 800gr with 1 1/8" steerer and 45mm rake. You must use a caliper brake arch with this fork but it takes up to 700x32mm or perhaps even larger tires and mud guards. $495 MSRP
http://www.advancedcomposites.com/woundup.htm

Advanced Composite's Wound-Up Canti: 800gr with 1 1/8" steerer and 45mm rake. This fork has cantilever / linear pull brake bosses and is otherwise the same as the other Wound-Up composite fork. $525 MSRP
http://www.advancedcomposites.com/woundup.htm

Reynolds Ouzo-Pro Tandem: 500gr (claimed) and 1 1/4" steerer with 55mm rake. $599 MSRP.
http://www.reynoldscomposites.com/OuzoProTandem.html

Tange/Santana Canti Tandem Fork: 1 1/4" steerer with 55mm rake. $399 MRSP


Your RT1000 probably has a 1 1/8" steerer with 53mm of rake assuming it is one of the more recent models therefore only the Alpha Q or Wound-Up forks would work on your tandem. The Reynolds & Tange forks were designed for use on Santana tandems which use 1 1/4" steerers and 55mm rake.

So, you're left with four options:

1. Alpha Q: The 48mm rake model will increase your steering trail from the stock 2" to approximately 2.2". I say approximate since I'm not sure exactly how long your Cannondale's stock fork legs are. The Alpha Q's tend to run a little bit shorter (374mm from drop-out to crown) than most other steel or the other carbon tandem forks so by lowering the front end of the tandem the head tube angle is altered a bit. The bottom line is, the Alpha Q would have the least amount of impact on how your Cannondale handles; however, it will still alter the steering feel a bit. In short, it will feel a little more twitchy at slow speed but will feel more secure through the corners. If you've ever taken a Co-Motion tandem for a test ride it would more closely approximate the handling that you would expect to find on your Cannondale with the Alpha Q. Depending on what size frame you have and how large your feet are you may also find that you have some toe overlap with this fork. The smaller your tandem's frame the more likely this is. We have toe overlap on both of our road tandems -- actually, all of my bikes have it -- and it hasn't been an issue. But, something worth noting.

2. The Advanced Composites Wound-Up: The 45mm rake will increase your steering trail from the stock 2" to approximately 2.32". Again, I say approximate since I'm not sure exactly how long your Cannondale's stock fork legs are compared to the Wound-Up's which is 387mm from drop-out to crown. My guess is, it's pretty close. The bottom line is, the Wound-Up fork would have a more significant impact on how your Cannondale handles compared to the Alpha Q. In short, at first it will feel very twitchy at slow speed but -- as with the Alpha Q -- much more secure through the corners. Again, back to the benchmark of the Co-Motion, if you were to compare the two your Cannondale would have less slow speed stability but would also respond better to body steering / leaning inputs through the corners.

3. Advanced Composites Wound-Up Canti-Model: Same as above for the Wound-Up except it will work with cantilever or linear-pull (aka. V-Brakes).

4. Last option BUT NOT recommended: You could contact single bike carbon fork manufacturers and find out what the max weight rating is for their forks. I've been told that Reynolds basic carbon fork was designed to handle some rather high weights and loads and there are at least one or two tandem teams running around on these. However, I believe both teams are sub-300lbs which is a lot less than 340lbs when it comes to the loading that's put on these forks under heavy braking at the very high speeds tandems routinely experience.

Bottom Line: You have two real choices. Both will affect how your tandem handles and, in both cases, what you'll find is that your tandem will steer more like a single bike -- being very precise and responsive to leaning inputs at speed but a little more of a handful as slow speeds and when climbing. The longer steering trail will also make the tandem twitch around more in response to your stoker's movements which would also take some getting used to. At first, this will feel really weird and perhaps uncomfortable given what you're used to with your Cannondale. However, after a few rides you should become comfortable with the new handling if you're used to riding racing bikes vs single bikes with touring geometry. Point of reference, our tandems have about 2.5" of steering trail -- both use Alpha Q forks.

Perhaps one of the best sources for your fork is Calfee Designs in Santa Cruz, CA. Calfee is the premier builder of composite tandems. They sell all of these fork models and Craig (as in Calfee) or Stella can also discuss the pros and cons of these forks relative to tandem use. http://www.calfeedesign.com/price_list.shtml

Looking for a similar answer for our 2005 Trek T2000.

I can't tell from Trek's website anymore what the pre-carbon Geometry was for the Crom-alloy fork. Thier new 2008 Carbon fork looks very "straight" compared to mine.

Anyone know if Trek have changed the Headtube angle? Or have they just changed the rake.

I notice the Alpha Q now only goes up to a 44 Rake.

Any suggestions for a tandem team approx 400lbs?

Biggest reason for looking at this is not for the weight loss - I have been told some good caliper brakes at the front will be better than the Shorti 6's as well as a little more comfort for the captain :)

Also just checking is the Fork length measurment you mention from the middle of the dropout to the top of the crown? (i.e where it touches the head tube?) if so the Trek T2000 Crom-alloy one is about 400mm. How much of an impact would the shorter forks have?

We ran the Wound Up Carbon Fiber Fork on our 2002 model Cannondale Tandem that we had several years back with no problems, it worked great. The Tandem handeled fine and the ride was a lot better, I recommend it as we had no problems what so ever with the Wound up Carbon Fiber Fork and it looked great. The same fork works great on our Co-Motion Robusta as well, its a very solid Tandem specific fork.

Good Luck, :)
Bill G

16,000+ miles on our Alpha Q X-2 fork utilizing a D/A caliper brake on our Zona tandem; we are a tad below a combined team weight of 250 lbs. No issues, so far.
Asides from less weight, a c/f fork'll dampen some of the road vibes on your C'dale's front end.
Pedal on TWOgether!
Rudy and Kay/zonatandem

Our new Co-Motion has the Alpha Q and a DA caliper brake. Brake works fine
but the nominal 25mm Michelin tire rated at 110psi pumped to 115 measures
27.6mm wide. It requires a moderate thump to get it out of the fork between
the fully released brakes and a forceful down shove to get it back in place.
Curious I measured several DF tires and found most to be within 1mm + to
0.5mm (-) in nominal width. So a 28mm might work but best be measured, as a tire much
wider than 28mm actual versus nominal is going to be a hassle to get in and out. As to the fork,
it is very positive in its handling, steering beautifully through high speed turns,
handling like a high end DF ought to handle. OTOH the combo of fork and
Rolf Vigor Tandem wheels with 240gm tire is squirrelly in no hands riding unlike
the beefier steel fork and heavier tire on the Burley.

Anyone know if Trek have changed the Headtube angle? Or have they just changed the rake.

The changed the fork rake: steel = 55mm (Santana-like) and carbon = 50mm (Co-Motion-like)

For a 400lb team looking for calipers and comfort, consider the 1.125" Reynolds Ouzo Pro tandem fork with 55mm of rake. It won't change your handling but will provide everything else you're looking for in a very beefy package.

Regarding carbon forks with 1" steerers: We've got 2600 km to date on the Reynolds Ouzo Pro single-bike fork (all carbon including steerer tube) so far, no problems. Crew weight is 320 lbs (175-lb driver, 135-lb stoker, with a slight upward margin of tolerance for clothing and shoes.

Might sound scary, but just a few comments:
- People thought it was scary that we were using a 16-spoke Shamal on the front (this was before 16-spoke tandem wheels came out). After 10,000 km+, it's holding up just fine.
- The tandem never carries touring loads. We never even carry more than two bottles (it's got bosses for two cages, and living in the Pac Northwest, who needs more than one bottle each? Even on long supported rides, we have never gone thru one entire bottle between food stops).
- In order to easily remove the 23mm front wheel, it's necessary to use the Ultegra QR plus the Campag brake lever QR. Otherwise the tire will rub on the way out.
- I must admit that I think the Reynolds fork is a bit too "soft." On hard braking, it flexes a bit more than the carbon forks on my singles. But not to the point where I might feel concerned.
- I must also admit that I keep my fingers crossed on fast descents, so from a psychological standpoint, the security of knowing that you are on a "tandem-rated" fork may be worth the extra $300. Unfortunately, they don't make "tandem-rated" forks with 1" steerers, but I went with the Reynolds because I had it on very good authority that they could take the loads.
- I tend to be very easy on the equipment.
- The 4.5cm rake does affect the handling like TG said. It's a bit tricky standing on climbs, but I think it develops better tandem technique.
- I am now fastidious about checking for cracks before most rides.

- L.

lhbernhardt, how's that Reynolds Ouzo Pro doing? I got my eyes on a full carbon version (did they release a non carbon steerer tube version?) right now. You said the crew weight is 320lbs and my crew is going to be around 350 lbs. Moreover, I'm glad to hear your results of the 16-spoke Shamal wheels after 10,000KM!!!! There's another 16 spoke wheelset called the Shimano Sweet-16 (supposedly Dura-Ace level) that I got my eyes on as well. Any input would be helpful =)

http://dragonmotif.com/ebay/reynolds_tandem_carbon_fork_b.jpg

You know that Reynolds no longer makes forks?


Hi Ritterview,

Sorry, but we are no longer producing forks, instead choosing to focus on the wheel market. Please let me know if you have any other questions.

Thanks,

Ryan Barrett

Reynolds Cycling

You know that Reynolds no longer makes forks?

And Alpha Q is done now too, correct? So that leaves just the ugly Wound Up as the only Carbon Tandem fork?
I read somewhere that CoMotion is working on a new source? maybe they 'll sell those after they get a source tooled up.

I know where you are eyeing these parts. I do not believe you were given the correct answer about the Sweet Sixteens. You can call Bill at Santana, but I'm very sure they were never made with 145mm spacing. If the pair you are looking at are indeed 145mm, they are not new, and have been modified.

for whatever it's worth, i'm going to be using an edge 2.0 on a new rig that's being built up, after endless & fruitless searches for alpha q tandem fork.

edge gave it the green light for my tandem weight (rider plus bike) of ~350 lbs.

this might not work for you though, so inquire of edge directly depending on your situation.

for whatever it's worth, i'm going to be using an edge 2.0 on a new rig that's being built up, after endless & fruitless searches for alpha q tandem fork.

edge gave it the green light for my tandem weight (rider plus bike) of ~350 lbs.

Hey, I just noticed that the 'World Champion' racing Cyfac (http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?644125-Just-found-this-browsing-around-the-web&p=10817980&viewfull=1#post10817980) doesn't have the Columbus Carve fork (http://www.columbustubi.com/eng/4_2_13.htm) that comes with the Cyfac. Its not an Alpha Q either. That looks a lot like an Edge 2.0. If so, that is a pretty good endorsement, since they could have used anything, and it isn't labeled.

http://www.roadcyclinguk.com/uploads/images/ProductImage/926.jpghttp://i3.avlws.com/565/l58199.png

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1237/4610474087_b8756d3489_o.jpg

My Cannondales had an axle to crown height of 395mm, so I think most carbon road forks would steepen things a bit.

Hey, I just noticed that the 'World Champion' racing Cyfac (http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?644125-Just-found-this-browsing-around-the-web&p=10817980&viewfull=1#post10817980) doesn't have the Columbus Carve fork (http://www.columbustubi.com/eng/4_2_13.htm) that comes with the Cyfac. Its not an Alpha Q either. That looks a lot like an Edge 2.0. If so, that is a pretty good endorsement, since they could have used anything, and it isn't labeled.


Except look at the picture in the other thread showing the Bejing race, definitely not an Edge fork.

FWIW, I think that Winwood still sell a tandem-rated carbon fork: http://www.winwoodbike.com/muddydisc.html

Disc and/or Canti, 398mm A/C, 45mm rake, 682g, 1-1/8" steerer, $315 MSRP

My Cannondales had an axle to crown height of 395mm, so I think most carbon road forks would steepen things a bit.
If you do the math, based on the long wheelbase of a tandem the difference even 20mm shorter makes is less than .25°

When Trek recently stopped producting tandems, some bontrager tandem forks went out onto the closeout market. I got one instead of an alpha-q because I could never get comfortabler with a really light fork on a tandem. The bontrager fork has been great. The rake is shorter than the original t2000 steel fork and longer than the alpha-q rake. Maybe there are a few still floating around.

lhbernhardt, how's that Reynolds Ouzo Pro doing? [/IMG]
I read in a past post he is no longer using the Reynolds fork.
I am and last year our team was >400lbs. I did not have a problem then and now my team is about 320lbs. Not that I recommend to use a Reynolds Ouzo Pro [1"], I just can say I have not had any problems what so ever.

Except look at the picture in the other thread showing the Bejing race, definitely not an Edge fork.

That was in 2008, the team has a new tandem (http://translate.google.com/translate?js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=1&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Ftijone95.skyrock.com%2F2852550342-UCI-Cup-2010-de-Bilbao-Espagne.html&sl=fr&tl=en) this year. Pics from a very recent (http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=fr&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Ftijone95.skyrock.com%2F2867237090-Course-internationale-des-Monedieres-en-Correze.html) race here (http://s146343347.onlinehome.fr/foto19/gallery/#page=albums/photo=5304/album=79).

http://78.img.v4.skyrock.net/787/tijone95/pics/2862654162_1.jpg


I wonder if the small logo on the fork is a clue as to what brand it is?
My goodness, there are only 24 spokes on the deep dish carbon rims. Thankfully, the are on an officially sanctioned race, so it's okay.
No disc brake and carbon braking surface. I guess they don't brake as much on descents.
The chainring is Dura Ace, not so the crank. It looks like a square taper. Its a double, too. What with the double crank, 11-23 cassette, and the carbon rims, either this team is terrific at ascending/descending, or these tandem races don't appear to include Alpe d'Huez.


http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4016/4633388191_5877f90264_o.jpg

I wonder if the small logo on the fork is a clue as to what brand it is?
My goodness, there are only 24 spokes on the deep dish carbon rims. Thankfully, the are on an officially sanctioned race, so it's okay.
No disc brake and carbon braking surface. I guess they don't brake as much on descents.
The chainring is Dura Ace, not so the crank. It looks like a square taper. Its a double, too.
What with the double crank, 11-23 cassette, and the carbon rims, either this team is terrific at ascending/descending, or these tandem races don't appear to include Alpe d'Huez.



Might still be an Edge fork, logo is too small to see clearly.
Most of the tandems, if not all of them in the link you gave had rim brakes. Makes my decision to forgo disks seem OK.
Look like 85mm 24 spoke front and rear probably used two Gigantex rims that would normally be used in the rear of their wheelsets.
Doesn't look like a DA 7400 crank since DA did not have that relief on the backside of the crank arms on the 7400 series (I am looking at my 7401 crank right now).
I am sure they have much better bike handling skills than we have and I would bet they can produce hundreds of watts more power than we can. Climbing might not be much of a problem for them.

Personally I wouldn't ride a fork that wasn't approved for the purpose from the manufacturer. I have put a Reynolds carbon tandem fork on my C'dale, and like it, but wouldn't use a solo bike fork. Sure they ride a bit softer but tandems are soft anyway compared to a solo bike. I have used low spoke count wheels (Mavic cosmic elite and cosmic sl) but as a spoked wheel will generally only fail slowly I don't mind using them. A fork however can fail instantly and the result is catastrophic and you can multiply the consequence by two for a tandem.

lhbernhardt, how's that Reynolds Ouzo Pro doing?

Here's an equipment update: in June 2008, I replaced the Reynolds Ouzo Pro carbon fork (after 4,505 km on the tandem) with a Woundup X2 carbon fork; much beefier and very minimal flex/vibration under heavy downhill braking. Note that these are forks with 1" steerers. The Reynolds fork even has a carbon steerer, and it is very, very light. The Woundup was the only carbon fork available at the time with a 1" steerer. The Reynolds fork went on my fixed gear Benotto and was used for another year and 6,128 km when the frame broke in October 2009 (not the fork!). The Reynolds fork is currently not in use, as I replaced the Benotto with the Rodriguez fixie, which came with a 1 1/8" Profile carbon fork. The Reynolds fork was just as flexy on the fixed gear bike as it was on the tandem, maybe even more so; it really shuddered under heavy braking.

The Shamal 16 was pulled out of service after the rim started to crack (vertically). The tandem is currenlty using Bontrager 24-spoke tandem wheels, which have had over 3,000 km on them with no problems.

Luis

Ritterview: The only common trait between that generic fork and the Edge is that they're both using carbon composite. Edge fork is top of class, full monocoque steerer to drops. Those race pix are sweet! :thumb:

JSNYC: Edge weight weenie road fork okay'd for a tandem 350lb rider crew, WOW!!! I'm impressed. Very impressed! :)

ct-vt-trekker: Alpha Q / True Temper went bankrupt last year, also interesting to note how many builders still spec their rides with Alpha Q's remaining inventory like the GS-10 and GS-30 forks. These were at one time rated #1 before the full monocoque forks came out. Still highly regarded, in fact, I believe the 2009-2010 line of Moots bikes like the Vamoots RSL are spec'd with the Alpha Q fork from the get go (custom painted and logo'd to make the titanium framesets by Moots). :innocent:

The Wound Up tandem specific (with disc mount) is a full carbon fork as well, it looks beautiful with that matte finish and upgraded black anodized crown and disc tabs. Not as nice as Edge 1.0, 2.0 but the Wound Up X is another fork that comes up right behind it.

Below is a picture of the Moots Vamoots RSL with Alpha Q GS-40 carbon fork.

152249

Spoke to EDGE at the Tour of California - they had a booth at the finish of the first stage. They said that they have no intention of ever making a tandem fork and would not warranty any of their forks if used on a tandem. I was talking to the head guy - not just a booth worker.

interesting. who did you talk to on that? i got the green light from jake after multiple back & forth w/different questions, parameters, etc.

he specifically said no weight limit on the 2.0 and it's ok for tandem use, that testing showed it's stronger than alpha q x2 tandem-specific fork.

maybe they don't want to talk about it, or someone's getting smoke blown up their keester--yours or mine!

i could care less about its weight--i just want it to work. literally my only other option was a wound up, and those things are not my cup of tea in the looks department.

interesting. who did you talk to on that? i got the green light from jake after multiple back & forth w/different questions, parameters, etc.

he specifically said no weight limit on the 2.0 and it's ok for tandem use, that testing showed it's stronger than alpha q x2 tandem-specific fork.

maybe they don't want to talk about it, or someone's getting smoke blown up their keester--yours or mine!

i could care less about its weight--i just want it to work. literally my only other option was a wound up, and those things are not my cup of tea in the looks department.

I should have gotten his name - but I had heard that Edge had said it was ok to use the fork on a tandem here on the forum - hence my question.

who knew getting a tandem fork would be such a p.i.t.a....

NOBODY has/had alpha q tandem forks for sale (other than a couple of folks with some creative price gouging--and at that asking price, the hell with them, i'd have had a custom steel or carbon fork done up instead). called santana, calfee and co-motion, no dice on getting a fork there either.

it's dumb luck i gave the edge 2.0 a look-see. turns out they said ok, and my builder was able to get one, so bingo...that was it.

the wound up--no doubt an awesome fork, it just would've looked not-so-nice on my frame (to me), that's all.

as someone on here said on a related thread that i can't recall at the moment, the tandem market for forks is probably a blip, nobody seems to care. that's too bad.

I should have gotten his name - but I had heard that Edge had said it was ok to use the fork on a tandem here on the forum - hence my question.

Could it have been Jason Shiers? He's the founder and owner featured in this product video from the Sea Otter


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9u2Uh016d7Y&feature=related

it's dumb luck i gave the edge 2.0 a look-see. turns out they said ok, and my builder was able to get one, so bingo...that was it.

Tandems do create all kinds of headaches for consumers, retailers and manufacturers... and it's hard to throw too much blame on anyone in particular because the root cause is product liability.

My guess is, Jake is giving you his honest assessment, i.e., the Edge 2.0 'should be OK'; but unless I'm missing something Jake's not the owner of Edge. So, if Joe spoke with Jason Shiers what you now have is the official company position juxtaposed a statement that may or may not be "official" by Jake. None of this will mean anything unless you have a sudden and catastrophic failure "while just riding along" and the fork failed. Those are far and few between these days, as the majority of fork failures that I've seen or heard of have not been catastrophic and were either the result of a crash or mishandling, or simply fatigue related where there was visual and physical indications that the fork was delaminating. Mind you, these are on forks made by names you'll all recognize. But, without an official company endorsement of the product, you're on your own.

There have also been other non-tandem specific forks that have been given the unofficial "wink-wink" for certain tandem teams, e.g., non-tandem specific Reynolds Ouzo forks with 1.125" steerers well before Reynolds offered their tandem model in the more conventional steerer tube dimension. Several non-tandem forks earned their way on to tandems after proving themselves on the Cyclocross circuit, sometimes with a little modification and sometimes not.

So, what do you do? Well, remember, most brakes used on tandems are not spec'd for tandems either. Rims and tires... not really. Now, none of these things -- to include the uber lightweight racing wheels -- tend to 'explode' when they are used on tandems. Instead, they simply don't last all that long compared to more robust components, yield poor performance which riders may or may not even realize or just don't offer a lot of bang for the buck... just a lot of bling. Let's face it, few recreational cyclists ever come close to pushing the performance envelope of their tandems except in one or two areas: gross weight related stresses and panic stops.

Therefore, as the owner of a tandem bought as a frame and built by you or per your specs it falls back on you to decide "what's good enough and what steps do I need to take to ensure the long-term safety of my tandem?" Getting an 'unofficial OK' is only meaningful if you trust the person giving the OK to have the real data, experience, QA processes and reputation to back-up the recommendation. Next comes your own "acceptance testing". Some of this stuff is easy to figure out if you know what to look for. Just handling the parts during the build process often times reveals things that can catch your attention and either give you piece of mind or throw up red flags. If it passess muster during the build process, next comes the shake down rides and after that long-term use.

If you put on a non-tandem specific fork and the handling is awful accompanied by visible and excessive fork deflection, or you start to hear creaking and discover stress cracks on your fork you've made a bad choice. Same thing goes for wheels: if they creak and flex or constantly need attention to keep them true or you find stress cracks around the spoke holes... you've made a bad choice. If you never pay attention to these types of things or routinely inspect your tandem during a monthly cleaning, etc... then you're leaving yourself wide open for a potential problem and perhaps even a serious crash if a component fails. But, again, this is not unique to carbon forks. Stems and handlebars are just as apt to suffer from fatigue over time if your tandem sees a lot of aggressive use: I can vividly recall one of the teams we ride with -- and who really put a lot of wear and tear on their tandems -- discovering a crack on the underside of an aluminum stem about 3/4s of the way through a century ride. It was a 'gentle' ride to the end and the part was swapped-out immediately. However, the key here was chasing a creaking sound and not ignoring it, followed by the ability to recognize what a cracked stem looked like. Of course, there are also a lot of tandems that don't see a lot of use, never mind a lot of hard use and/or that get replaced every other season and they often times skew the reliability record of certain components. FWIW: When I speak to long-term reliability my assumption is based on several years and thousands of miles of use... because that's what I'd expect daily-use equipment to provide.

Back to your connundrum: If you have made a choice to use the Edge 2.0 based on what you thought was a sound decision process, to include speaking with someone whom you trust to give you good advise, and because you've spoken to others who are using this fork on their tandems who are of like weight (e.g., the Machiatto at Interbike belonged to someone and was likely built-up by Mt. Airy or College Park Cyclery), then perhaps you have at least a stop-gap fork until you can find a no-kidding, tandem-rated fork that meets your expectations: replacements for the Alpha Q X2 are definitely in work and will be available in the not too distant future.

Bottom Line: This is where OEMs like Co-Motion, Santana and Calfee who sell fully-assembled tandems with warranties 'add value' to the entire tandem acquisition process since they have the burden of running all of these traps and making these decisions.

Could it have been Jason Shiers? He's the founder and owner featured in this product video from the Sea Otter


Nope - he was in the booth I think - in looking at other videos - it was a blond guy who's name appears to be Jake.

Nope - he was in the booth I think - in looking at other videos - it was a blond guy who's name appears to be Jake.

Oh hell, that's even better.... and honestly, not all that surprising. But it does speak to the tightrope that manufacturers must walk from time to time when dealing with customers in a one-on-one relationship vs. the general public at a widely attended event.

I've received similar 'candid, off-the-record' advise from tech support folks in phone conversations that run counter to the company position or product endorsement for tandem use and/or other like spec issues. Again, in those cases it's been pretty clear that I was venturing out of warranty coverage and/or endorsed range of use for a given product, but at least I felt I'd been given good information from which I could make my own decisions.

replacements for the Alpha Q X2 are definitely in work and will be available in the not too distant future.




Any details?

Any details?

None, other than at least one of them will be independently tested, OEM-branded, approved and warrantied for use on tandems.

Oh hell, that's even better.... and honestly, not all that surprising. But it does speak to the tightrope that manufacturers must walk from time to time when dealing with customers in a one-on-one relationship vs. the general public at a widely attended event.

I've received similar 'candid, off-the-record' advise from tech support folks in phone conversations that run counter to the company position or product endorsement for tandem use and/or other like spec issues. Again, in those cases it's been pretty clear that I was venturing out of warranty coverage and/or endorsed range of use for a given product, but at least I felt I'd been given good information from which I could make my own decisions.

Not sure who Jake is - and why that is better. In a nutshell his comments were pretty much that Tandem market is to small to make a dedicated fork and rims.

Not sure who Jake is - and why that is better.

Jake is Jake Pantone, Sales & Brand Manager for Edge Composites... Better because it's most likely the same Jake that JSNYC has been speaking with.

yep that's him. if he says its good, its good. or at least thats my story and i'm stickin' to it.

and to those tandem shops selling alpha q x2 forks fora candy bar or two under $900: ^%$#@!*&$#!!!

...and to those tandem shops selling alpha q x2 forks fora candy bar or two under $900: ^%$#@!*&$#!!!

Come on now... Let's be honest with ourselves.

There's no real difference between the OEM's who have forks available for new production bikes that won't sell those forks as an after market item and a tandem dealer who is essentially doing the same thing -- protecting his finite fork inventory for use on new tandem builds -- by running the price up to make it unattractive to after market piece-part buyers.

In both cases you can probably get the Alpha Q forks for normal list or as part of an OEM spec.... you just gotta buy the rest of the tandem that goes with it.

If you put on a non-tandem specific fork and the handling is awful accompanied by visible and excessive fork deflection, or you start to hear creaking and discover stress cracks on your fork you've made a bad choice.

The Edge 2.0 on my 305 lb.-burdened Calfee has provided excellent handling, and no visible fork deflection. There have been no creaking, cracks or other problems. So far, so good, and if I had to purchase a tandem fork right now I'd again get an Edge 2.0.

i am very honest with myself, actually. god bless american capitalism and edge composites. :lol:


Come on now... Let's be honest with ourselves.

There's no real difference between the OEM's who have forks available for new production bikes that won't sell those forks as an after market item and a tandem dealer who is essentially doing the same thing -- protecting his finite fork inventory for use on new tandem builds -- by running the price up to make it unattractive to after market piece-part buyers.

In both cases you can probably get the Alpha Q forks for normal list or as part of an OEM spec.... you just gotta buy the rest of the tandem that goes with it.

Jake is Jake Pantone, Sales & Brand Manager for Edge Composites... Better because it's most likely the same Jake that JSNYC has been speaking with.

LOL - ok - get it now.

The Edge 2.0 on my 305 lb.-burdened Calfee has provided excellent handling, and no visible fork deflection. There have been no creaking, cracks or other problems. So far, so good, and if I had to purchase a tandem fork right now I'd again get an Edge 2.0.

That's goodness and, at least for this forum, as y'all should provide a pretty good "lead the fleet" benchmark for tandem teams at or under your weight class looking for a suitable fork. While it's no guarantee that others will have the same experience, common sense does suggest that as you rack up the miles -- and from all accounts they're pretty stout miles -- it will expand the envelope for that particular fork model's suitability and reliability.

Also, bear in mind, even having a fork that's endorsed for tandem use will not, in and of itself, guarantee that the fork will last forever. Again, if you look back on other posts regarding carbon forks you will find that there have been a number of the earlier, pre-True Temper Alpha Q X2 forks that have succumb to fatigue. Of course, excluding one fork that delaminated and began showing cracks in a fork leg right out of the box, the other forks that we've seen with fatigue damage had anywhere from 12k to 20k miles of use with 300# weight class teams. Again, even a very good lightweight component that hasn't been expressly overbuilt for use on a tandem won't simply 'explode' or fail in just a few thousand miles. The true test of reliability comes as the fork goes through 100's of thousands of stress cycles over years and thousands of miles of use.

With respect to the Edge 2.0, if it has indeed been tested by an independent lab as reported (which I believe to be absolutely true) and was found to have the same fatigue life as an Alpha Q X2 (which was nearly infinite for the True Temper models, at least from a testing standpoint when I last checked around 2003), as well as equal or greater static and tensile strength, that's a pretty good piece of data to have in your back pocket. What would be even better is the knowledge that several forks were pulled at random from inventory and tested to confirm production level QA processes are also up to snuff, i.e., that there was consistency across the test articles.

However, all of this is for naught and merely hip-pocket info if an OEM or big after market wholesaler doesn't step in and make a commitment to buy enough of the forks to support a "tandem-rated endorsement" and the other "business stuff" needed to make it a viable, long-term product offering for both Edge and the OEM or after market wholesaler. Heck, there wasn't even enough market demand to keep the Arai drum brake "viable" for the business entities that produced and marketed it....

Welcome to the world of tandems... and note that the market seems to be going upscale and downscale while at the same time contracting in the middle: me thinks the middle is a pretty important part of the market.

Edge is located 5 miles from my house. I ride by there a couple times per week. Maybe I should stop by and pick up a few demo forks. And maybe some carbon "tandem" demo wheels too while I'm there.

...and to those tandem shops selling alpha q x2 forks fora candy bar or two under $900: ^%$#@!*&$#!!!

If 3 people want to buy your house, and you only have one house, how do you decide whom to sell it to?

sorry, but i'm dealing with the reality of buying a fork, not hypothetical economic arguments on a bike forum. :lol:

i bought the edge. :thumb:

Just a quick note:

I have an Alpha Q on my 2005ish Trek T2000 (the sparkly red one). Basically the handling is as TandemGeek described - much more like a road bike now, rather than driving a truck as it was with the original fork. However the drop from shorter fork legs is large. Without measuring it, I'd guess it's at least 2.5cm.

To avoid cornering issues I now run the front eccentric upside down to lift up the front crank. This also means the bars get much lower down relative to the bottom bracket, which was my original objective since the frame on our M-S model is really bigger than I'd like. Some re-jigging of saddle heights and setbacks and all is good. Regarding brakes we run a Dura Ace 7700 caliper up front and that is fine. With Swissstop black pads the standard rear brakes are also much more effective than they used to be.

Once our kids are a little bigger (now 3.75 and 1.5 yrs), we will get time to use the tandem more regularly or use if to go on family rides. At that point, finances permitting, I will probably get a new frame. Until then, given we're not exactly racking up the miles, we'll stick with it.

My .02

Just finished up a Trek T1000 build up. Well, what's left of a T1000. King Headset, Edge 2.0 fork 45mm rake. 300# team + bike(28#) + 4 bottles of water(~8#). This fork is stiffer than the stock steel one; well at least moves around less. Handling is quick, took us about 10 miles to get comfortable with it. As we become more and more comfortable with it, we were diving into corners at 24-25mph, power on at apex and pulling if not forcing a gap with the single bikes. Speeds above 30 mph are still not where I'd say are 'safe' but with a little technique practice, we'll be there.

That's reassuring. Thanks for the color.

One other alternative I can't recall seeing: how about an Alpha Q Z-Pro (assuming one could find one of those...)? Are they approved (or not) for tandem use? I've seen them on serious track racing tandems.

Hey folks, here's an idea if you're looking for a tandem-specific fork in steel. Check out Dave Anderson bikes. I just got in contact with him, and he said he can make one for about $350 (single color), and takes 4-6 weeks. Weight will be 800 grams or so (likely less when trimmed). Weight aside, it's likely to be a fork with zero worries and great handling (built to spec).

Had I known this prior, I'd have likely gotten one. Oh well. I still just might get one eventually. By the way, Anderson makes absolutely STELLAR bikes (and forks). I'm envisioning an all polished stainless w/sloping crown Anderson fork with my black frame....:thumb:

Anyway, I'm still asking around to some other builders, but this is the 1st one to reply who can do it.

Here's some pics of his regular road forks:

http://www.velocipedesalon.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=17620&stc=1&d=1266515085

http://www.velocipedesalon.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=16353&d=1263525861

http://www.velocipedesalon.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=15805&stc=1&d=1262359042

http://www.velocipedesalon.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=15803&stc=1&d=1262359042