Australia - New Zealand - Hey Aussies...talk to me about living there...

Ok so here is the deal. My wife works in the pharmcutical industry and her company is looking for 2 reps with expierence to relocate to Australia. So we are intrigued. Of course it will depend on the compensation and the location but in general what are we looking at if we make this move?

How does the cost of living compare to the US?
How do the schools compare?
What types of things (other than the fact that both of our famlies are in the States) should we be thinking about when contemplating this move?

Currently we live in Central PA and both make ok money not great but not bad and no where near poverty...hell I have 4 bikes how bad can we be doing? Our local school district is pretty good (top quarter of the state) and the cost of living is reasonable though housing is a bit expensive.

Anyway just looking for any input on this topic so feel free to throw about anything out there.

Thanks

Ok thanks for the feedback.

When Matagi wakes up she will post in this thread for sure and have a lot of good advice on coming to Aus im sure!!
Gee, thanks for that kiddo.;)

Ok here goes......

Cost of living - food is cheaper here as are proper restaurants (not talking about fast food places). Fuel is much higher in price as is the cost of energy generally (electricity, etc). Clothing is more expensive here, as are consumer goods but the difference is less than it used to be.

As far as education is concerned, there is the same range of schools from absolutely atrocious to excellent that you would find in the States in both the public and private systems. I would say the worst of our government schools would be way better than the worst of your schools.

Cost of housing - how long is a piece of string? How much you spend on a house will depend on which city you end up in and which suburb you choose. Sydney is the most expensive city to live in and anywhere waterfront will cost you an arm and a leg.

Culturally, while things will seem familiar they will have a local spin so expect to have a few "whoa, WTF?" moments. We have a reasonable social security system so you will see far less overt poverty here than back in the States.

Geographically, the further north you go the more tropical our weather becomes. So anywhere north of Sydney, you get incredibly mild winters and hot and humid summers. Victoria, Tasmania and South Australia have more defined seasons. We only get snow on the ground in the alpine regions.

Unlike ecnetsixe, I would suggest you consider South Australia and Tasmania if logistics permit. These are two of our smallest states in terms of population and the cost of property is really low. Also, Adelaide and Hobart are very attractive cities.

Hope this helps, if you have any other questions I'll do my best to answer them - either post them here or PM me.

didn't Expat get sick of being ripped off when buying bikes and cars?

about 10 years ago (I think), there was some kinda Aussie Ford Capri (I think) that was sold in The States, and it was was bloody cheaper there than it was here, even though it was a bloody import!!!!! :(:p Many of us were really pissed off

So, all I know is that toys for boys down here are way overpriced

If you move to Oz go to Sydney. It's the most expensive city but if you're on an expat package that shouldn't be a problem.

Sydney is, IMO, the most beautiful city on earth, and is the one place in Australia that people should see before they die. The restaurants and cafes are almost as good as Melbourne, but the weather and location more than make up for that.

Sydney isn't as good as Melbourne and Perth for cycling though, but there are lots of things to do and see within 1-2 hours drive of Sydney.

The cost of living in Australia is roughly the same as the US with petrol being marginally more expensive.

melbourne was voted the worlds most liveable city. dont know who by tho. but well take it.

were crazy about our sport too. you better be prepared to hear all about footy and cricket!

melbourne was voted the worlds most liveable city. dont know who by tho. but well take it.

were crazy about our sport too. you better be prepared to hear all about footy and cricket!
Yeah, I still miss Melbourne.:(

Thanks for the feedback gang. I don't suppose you get PSU football (american style) down there. :)

My wife is still getting the info on where and how much so I really don't know much at this point.

Thanks for the feedback gang. I don't suppose you get PSU football (american style) down there. :)

My wife is still getting the info on where and how much so I really don't know much at this point.


I'm not sure if they have college football, but you can watch the NFL on cable/satellite TV.

but there are lots of things to do and see within 1-2 hours drive of Sydney.


Anywhere 1 - 2 hours drive from Sydney is still called Sydney (if you start in the CBD) :p

Seriously though, Sydney is my favourite Aussie city. For cycling, the upper North Shore or South around Cronulla/Sutherland would be the best locations. Don't go West as it's all bogans in V8s out that way.

Thanks for the feedback gang. I don't suppose you get PSU football (american style) down there. :)

My wife is still getting the info on where and how much so I really don't know much at this point.
I think we get the college games on ESPN on cable/satellite and of course we get the NFL games including Superbowl.

Thanks for the feedback gang. I don't suppose you get PSU football (american style) down there. :)

My wife is still getting the info on where and how much so I really don't know much at this point.

Yeah, as JM mentioned above, you might struggle to get college football here - especially on TV (edit: or maybe we do, thanks matagi, no cable TV at my place;) ), but that's what the interweb is for... BTW are the Buckeyes still kicking butt like they were earlier this season?

Believe it or not, here in Melbourne we actually have a gridiron competition :eek: I think there's only about 6 or so sides & I bet they would get pummelled by most junior high school teams over your way, but still...if you're keen to see live (US) football :D

Yeah, as JM mentioned above, you might struggle to get college football here - especially on TV (edit: or maybe we do, thanks matagi, no cable TV at my place;) ), but that's what the interweb is for... BTW are the Buckeyes still kicking butt like they were earlier this season?

Believe it or not, here in Melbourne we actually have a gridiron competition :eek: I think there's only about 6 or so sides & I bet they would get pummelled by most junior high school teams over your way, but still...if you're keen to see live (US) football :D
Well since Ohio State is one of PSU's rivals we don't like to talk about them kicking butt. :D But they are in the national championship game that will be the week after newyears.

Well since Ohio State is one of PSU's rivals we don't like to talk about them kicking butt. :D But they are in the national championship game that will be the week after newyears.

Aha, they're still doing okay then :) My nephew is fratboy/jock/party pig at OSU so that's the reason I have even the slightest idea of how the Buckeye football team was going. Thanks for the update. :D

Anywhere 1 - 2 hours drive from Sydney is still called Sydney (if you start in the CBD) :p

Seriously though, Sydney is my favourite Aussie city. For cycling, the upper North Shore or South around Cronulla/Sutherland would be the best locations. Don't go West as it's all bogans in V8s out that way.

The M2 and ED have made a big difference to access in and out of Sydney.

Cronulla is full of oiks IMO.

Whoa! I see some misinformation here. I'll log in after work, and give you a breakdown of how I fared moving from California to NSW. And I'll temper my opinions with some observations from the missus.

Ok so here is the deal. My wife works in the pharmcutical industry and her company is looking for 2 reps with expierence to relocate to Australia. So we are intrigued. Of course it will depend on the compensation and the location but in general what are we looking at if we make this move?

How does the cost of living compare to the US?
How do the schools compare?
What types of things (other than the fact that both of our famlies are in the States) should we be thinking about when contemplating this move?

Currently we live in Central PA and both make ok money not great but not bad and no where near poverty...hell I have 4 bikes how bad can we be doing? Our local school district is pretty good (top quarter of the state) and the cost of living is reasonable though housing is a bit expensive.

Anyway just looking for any input on this topic so feel free to throw about anything out there.

Thanks

Ok, here's my take:

The cost of living is much higher in Australia than the US. Food, clothing, utilities, petrol, and housing all cost more.

My Scion xB costs me about $22 a fortnight in petrol in the US. Expect to pay nearly triple that in Australia. If the comparison is made by relative wages, (a much more meaningful figure) the average wage earner in Utah county would only work one hour per week to fill my car. It would be more than 1.5 hours at the average wage in NSW (or at least Newcastle) to buy the same amount of fuel.

You like that free mobile phone and $30/month plan from your local cellular carrier? Forget about it. Plans in Oz aren't nearly as cheap, many don't include a lot of minutes, and they don't give phone away like they do in the US. Texting will be your friend, if it isn't already.

Foxtel has a cable package for about $96. Ouch! Get the internet instead.

Not only is your choice at the grocery store limited, but the prices are higher. And forget Mexican food. On the bright side, takeaway fish and chips are really cheap.

The schools are no different than the US. Some are great, some suck. I put more emphasis on the parents than the teachers. At least you have control over that.

Renting a house is affordable. Buying, not so much. The government does not allow you to deduct mortgage interest on your primary residence, but you can on a rental property. Go figure. There are also legal fees that seem to be much more than closing costs.

Are you planning to move there for a few years, or is this a permanent move?

If you move and start watching aussie rules rugby, the NFL pales in comparison.

are there any financial benefits leaving here?

are there any financial benefits leaving here?

Depends on your job skills and marital status. If you can command a high wage, you can probably live well most places. But if you're just an office drone, you need to do a lot of research. Having a wife and kids is also a big consideration. I went from single, making about US$70k/year to married with 3 more kids, and making about AU$40k/year.

Combined, I think we make about US$45k/year. But our house was only $169k. We could have bought a new house for even less, if we weren't picky about location. So it's all relative. I cannot ride my bike to the beach like we did in Newcastle. We do have a lake though, and mountains.

I suppose that rather than make it a financial consideration, look at lifestyle as well. If I was single, Australia would offer more in the way of good times. Much harder to raise a family there, but if I just wanted to work and ride my bike, and hook up with the local girlies, Australia would be the place.

I thought houses were relatively more affordable in the capital cites down here.
Like, for eg, no-one in New York owns a home

I thought houses were relatively more affordable in the capital cites down here.
Like, for eg, no-one in New York owns a home


wrong Sydney is up there as being very expensive. Why overly inflated house prices atm. Although many people with home loans (note I dont call them home owners) are now facing negative equity. Plus the fact in Sydney you are stuck with owning a car forget about public transportation.

Not being down but that how it is. I wouldn't live in Sydney. Just not worth the frustration.

I thought houses were relatively more affordable in the capital cites down here.
Like, for eg, no-one in New York owns a home


It's not apples vs apples (or big apples in this case). NYC is not really comparable to anywhere in Oz.

Saying that though, I'm not sure if Expat was talking into into account exchange rate differences. I found the price of petrol in Oz to be not too much more expensive than the US, and the most I ever paid for Foxtel (cable or satellite) was about A$55.00 (no movies though). I pay 36 quid for the same package here.

Also some things throw you a bit. Olive oil in the US is twice the price you pay in Oz IIRC.

It's not apples vs apples (or big apples in this case). NYC is not really comparable to anywhere in Oz.

Saying that though, I'm not sure if Expat was talking into into account exchange rate differences. I found the price of petrol in Oz to be not too much more expensive than the US, and the most I ever paid for Foxtel (cable or satellite) was about A$55.00 (no movies though). I pay 36 quid for the same package here.

Also some things throw you a bit. Olive oil in the US is twice the price you pay in Oz IIRC.


its time for the big mac purchasing power parity test.

How much does a big mac cost in Aus? I've got no idea. Run that through the exchange rate and see how that compares.

its time for the big mac purchasing power parity test.

How much does a big mac cost in Aus? I've got no idea. Run that through the exchange rate and see how that compares.


I don't eat ***** so I don't know either.

I assume Oz is more highly taxed than the US, especially stamp duty on properties.

Big Mac in Aus...is about $6 (AUD)

Can you answer a qs for me.....how many inches (or centimetres) is a 700C frame?

Cheers

Chris

Big Mac in Aus...is about $5-6 (AUD)

Can you answer a qs for me.....how many inches (or centimetres) is a 700C frame?

Cheers

Chris

According to this a Big Mac is US$2.55 in Oz (A$3.25) and US$3.10 in the USA.

http://www.oanda.com/products/bigmac/bigmac.shtml

Big Mac in Aus...is about $5-6 (AUD)

Can you answer a qs for me.....how many inches (or centimetres) is a 700C frame?

Cheers

Chris


I think you'll find that 700C is the size of the wheels (which is a standard size for most road bikes). If the frame says 700C it just means it uses that size wheels.

Someone here will correct me if I'm wrong.

I thought houses were relatively more affordable in the capital cites down here.
Like, for eg, no-one in New York owns a home

Plenty of people in New York state own homes. The city is a slightly different story. I follow that market, only because I have a subscription to New York Magazine. For a crappy loft in the city, you need at least $600k. I don't think you can own anything nice for less than a million right now. And that's still an apartment or brownstone, not a house.


It's not apples vs apples (or big apples in this case). NYC is not really comparable to anywhere in Oz.

Saying that though, I'm not sure if Expat was talking into into account exchange rate differences. I found the price of petrol in Oz to be not too much more expensive than the US, and the most I ever paid for Foxtel (cable or satellite) was about A$55.00 (no movies though). I pay 36 quid for the same package here.

Also some things throw you a bit. Olive oil in the US is twice the price you pay in Oz IIRC.

Gasoline in the US is $2.20/gallon where I live right now. When I left, petrol was $1.32/litre, which is $5/gallon. Which brings me to the next quote:


its time for the big mac purchasing power parity test.

How much does a big mac cost in Aus? I've got no idea. Run that through the exchange rate and see how that compares.

The exchange rate only matters if you're on holiday, or bringing loads of cash like I did. For your purchasing parity test, you need to compare the dollars you earn to the dollars I earn. How long do you have to work to buy a Big Mac, vs how long I have to work to buy a Big Mac? The burger is the constant here. When we compare something like, oh, Ultegra wheels, it gets even more skewed. Over here, it may only take me 16-20 hours of labor to buy the wheelset. I'm guessing you might have to put in a bit more time, given the ridiculous prices there... :D

sigh...bites tongue...im going to mix things up and stay out of this one :D

There's a first time for everything.

Gasoline in the US is $2.20/gallon where I live right now. When I left, petrol was $1.32/litre, which is $5/gallon.



I paid about US$2.80 a gallon when I was there a year ago when it was selling for about A$1.25 a litre in Perth.

At the moment petrol is about US$2.40 per gallon in Philly and A$1.17 per litre in Perth. The current exchange rate is about A$1.00 to US$0.785 meaning the price per litre in Perth is about US$0.92 and the price per gallon in Perth is about US$3.50.

If you live in Melbourne or Sydney you don't tend to use a car as much (assuming you live within 10-15km of the CBD). I lived in Sydney for 18 months before I bought a car and even then I would catch the metro if I was going into the city as it was more convenient than driving.

The cars are slightly smaller in Oz as well. Not too many Dodge Rams about anyway.

There's a first time for everything.


I see you fixed the thread title as well.

Plenty of people in New York state own homes. The city is a slightly different story. I follow that market, only because I have a subscription to New York Magazine. For a crappy loft in the city, you need at least $600k. I don't think you can own anything nice for less than a million right now. And that's still an apartment or brownstone, not a house.
hmmmm, I see

Big Mac in Aus...is about $5-6 (AUD)
A Big Mac down here is about $3.25 :)

I see you fixed the thread title as well.

Indeed.

I want to give you another perspective other than comparisons, and dollars and cents.

I have spent a lot of time in the US. I've been able to do this because my partner is American. I had no decision to make about whether it was practical to go to the US, I had to. And I am so glad that I did.

I had never left Australia so my journey to the US was more than a trip to be with my partner. I remember flying into LA and seeing an island just off the coast. I realised that I was really on the other side of this planet. I made my way to Indiana before I was able to leave an airport, but when I did I was amazed at how many American flags I saw flying. It was early 2003, post 9/11, and just before America entered Iraq, and I had never seen anything like this before. Those flying American flags will live in my memory forever.

The people of the Midwest are the most friendly people I have ever met. My entire time that first trip, and subsequent trips since have been the best days of my life. Our visa issues mean that we are still in limbo but I wouldn't trade this experience for any amount of money.

You sound like you can make a dollar anywhere, so money will never be a problem. If you want to say when you get old that once I lived in Australia then come. If you don't care about that then don't.

If you have a good look at Oz, you'll notice an island at the bottom. That's the map of Tassie. All blokes want to spend a bit of time down there.

Wow this thread has kept going.

As an update we still don't know much about this oppertunity but it looks like if she is offered a position they will not only buy our home here they will buy us a home in Aus and they will give us 3 pairs of round trip tickets back to the US per year as well as 4 weeks of vacation (up from 2 I believe). Apparently it is a VERY good package. She should hear more next week when she goes to her quarterly company meeting for 2 days.

Wow this thread has kept going.

As an update we still don't know much about this oppertunity but it looks like if she is offered a position they will not only buy our home here they will buy us a home in Aus and they will give us 3 pairs of round trip tickets back to the US per year as well as 4 weeks of vacation (up from 2 I believe). Apparently it is a VERY good package. She should hear more next week when she goes to her quarterly company meeting for 2 days.


4 weeks leave is the law in Oz (+10 days or so public holidays).

Do you know where you'll be based?

I want to give you another perspective other than comparisons, and dollars and cents.

I have spent a lot of time in the US. I've been able to do this because my partner is American. I had no decision to make about whether it was practical to go to the US, I had to. And I am so glad that I did.

I had never left Australia so my journey to the US was more than a trip to be with my partner. I remember flying into LA and seeing an island just off the coast. I realised that I was really on the other side of this planet. I made my way to Indiana before I was able to leave an airport, but when I did I was amazed at how many American flags I saw flying. It was early 2003, post 9/11, and just before America entered Iraq, and I had never seen anything like this before. Those flying American flags will live in my memory forever.

The people of the Midwest are the most friendly people I have ever met. My entire time that first trip, and subsequent trips since have been the best days of my life. Our visa issues mean that we are still in limbo but I wouldn't trade this experience for any amount of money.

You sound like you can make a dollar anywhere, so money will never be a problem. If you want to say when you get old that once I lived in Australia then come. If you don't care about that then don't.


Americans have a thing about flags. So do Aussies IMO, but nowhere near as bad.

Hi Grasschopper,

Not sure if you're still reading this thread but I have just done the same move and thought I'd throw my two cents in.

I spent the last 7 years living in the Bay Area and then Connecticut and my wife and I just relocated to Brisbane and bought a house and have been here since November.

Funnily enough my wife (who is American) is in Pharma too, she was working for Pfizer and then BMS in CT before we left and is currently working for a US CRO here called Quintiles. Coming from the US with big pharma experience has put her ahead of most people since it is hard to find anyone down here with that sort of experience. THe hardest part was that the industry was a lot smaller, but once you're in, with US experience you are golden. She is making a touch more Aussie dollars than she was making US dollars.

There are hardly any career opportunities for her in QLD and she spends most of the week in Sydney. There are opportunities in Sydney, Melbourne and strangely Adelaide ... so this will give you an idea of where you will probably be living. ( all fantastic cities )

Firstly, as someone else said, the experience of living in another country is amazing, it opens up your perspective on a lot of things. Being from somewhere different makes you a bit different so you find that it's easy to make friends. You definitely have a few WTF moments but they are always fun and you get tons of good stories out of it ... if you wanted to hAve the living overseas experience, there are no two places closer in lifestyle, standard of living that Australia and America. We did a 4 month stint across Europe, India and Thailand on the way back here and it is remarkable how similar our two countries are.

Things are more expensive here ... but with your work experience you may both be able to command a higher salary, it worked that way for us. What do you work in?

When I left Australia, computers and tvs ... well electronics in general were crazy expensive compared to America, since I've been home I've noticed that the difference is much much less than it used to be. Computers are about the same, tvs are getting close.

The tax system changed while I was away, a GST has been introduced but income tax has eased off a bit.

We just bought a house ( bad timing as it looks like we got in at the end of a boom ) in Brisbane, 8km from the city that is 4 br 3 bath and it was 500K ... if it had been in Hartford, CT it would be 380-400 for the same size house in a similar area. Had it been the bay area it would be $800, NY state, some place like Albany probably 300 ... so like someone else said, it's apples and oranges.

Someone earlier complained about Mexican and it's true, you don't get real Mexican in Australia ... but the Thai and Indian is much better.

Having tickets home every year is an incredible bonus and would definitely make it MUCH easier. I found with how things were growing here in Australia that when I came back after 2 or 3 years, it had changed so much that it didn't quite feel like home anymore and would have been easier if I could get back for at least a week every year.

Some stuff is great here, beaches are much nicer and you can't own beachfront so you never have to pay to get onto one, where as in CT even the ugliest beach cost 10 bucks to park and 7 to get onto a beach where it was too cold to swim anyway...

but then other stuff does your head in, it is a police state here in Qld and police will give you a ticket for speeding, even if it's only marginally above the limit, on a straight road that's had no accident on it.

Riding I enjoy both places. I was worried that Brisbane wouldn't be as bike friendly as the states but I've found people to be quite good so far.

For schooling I think it's much of a muchness. For my visa they had to compare my qualifications against the equivalent in America and they found them to be the same ... although it's easier to move between the two countries with the new visa since the FTA.

I totally think you should do it, I figured, when I moved to the states, that I always have a p*ss off clause, if I didn't like it I could always p*ss off home and it's no loss, but it turned out to be the most amazing experience of my life. Even if the cost of living was heaps different, I would do it all again. You've got nothing to lose.

Damian

Good luck with your missus working for Quintiles. A friend of mine just took a redundancy from them from a senior position. It was a big relief to get out of there, but that was just their experience with recent senior management changes in Oz.

Quintiles is a little different from other pharma companies in that they pretty much only run drug trials in NZ and Oz, and don't market any drugs in the region.

Plenty of drugs in Newcastle...

Not the FDA tested and approved variety though :p

Theres really only one place to live in australia and thats western australia. It beats the rat races in the eastern states hands down, in fact theyre breaking their necks to get here.
Luckily were still in the Commonwealth so theyre allowed in.
Sydney = drugs
melbourne = organised crime
adelaide= BORING
perth = yahoo!!!!!!!!

Sorry I forgot Hobart (doesnt everyone) and where the hell is Brisbane?

Theres really only one place to live in australia and thats western australia. It beats the rat races in the eastern states hands down, in fact theyre breaking their necks to get here.
Luckily were still in the Commonwealth so theyre allowed in.
Sydney = drugs
melbourne = organised crime
adelaide= BORING
perth = yahoo!!!!!!!!

Sorry I forgot Hobart (doesnt everyone) and where the hell is Brisbane?


Problem with Perth is that it's too far away from anything and the shops aren't open on Sundays or after 6pm during the week. Very quiet too. Nice place to ride bikes though.

Sydney is the best place to live IMO but I wouldn't ride there.

The other thing about Perth is that due to the property boom there it's very difficult to get accommodation at the moment.

Yes property is expensive nowadays and if I had known I would have bought a couple of houses in a trendy suburb and retired. But theres plenty of accomodation still

Anyway sigh, the shops not being open on sunday is a good thing as I try and ride on sunday and being far away from everything is great except you need to jump on a plane to get anywhere else in the world.

Nevertheless without insulting anyone this time its a great place to ride a bike cos its flat, golf is cheap and so the high powered jobs are in Sydney who cares.

Yes property is expensive nowadays and if I had known I would have bought a couple of houses in a trendy suburb and retired. But theres plenty of accomodation still

Anyway sigh, the shops not being open on sunday is a good thing as I try and ride on sunday and being far away from everything is great except you need to jump on a plane to get anywhere else in the world.

Nevertheless without insulting anyone this time its a great place to ride a bike cos its flat, golf is cheap and so the high powered jobs are in Sydney who cares.


Been a bit hot lately though.

any problems with "indigenous" gangs is there? :)

Or is that just some media rubbish I saw?